Treasure Cruise

[MaximumCDawg]

But looking at the wheels, if they keep printing more wheel effects in the future, even ones that are worse, you may still get to the point where there are enough of them that even with the restrictions the wheelstorm still exist.

This sounds like a good thing, actually.  As long as they're printing more reasonable cards in power level, what you are describing is the creation of a new archetype enabled by new printings.  To that I say, bring it on!

[hashswag]

Cruise won't get restricted because it doesn't let you pull away from your opponent in the early game. There are plenty of backbreaking late game effects, but we don't restrict all of those.

[WhiteLotus]

I still believe it might be better to simply unrestrict Thirst or something to give non-tempo Delver decks a way to keep up in terms of card draw. Why not unrestrict all draw engines and let pilots pick which one they'd want to run?

I think this is a much better idea than simply restricting Cruise immediately.

The way to proceed IMO would be monitor tournament results to see how the meta responds and if the delver decks are still in a position where their presence limits variety in viable deck choices then Unrestrict one or more cards from the following list: Thirst, Gifts ungiven, ponder, Library... Scroll? (OMG Gush Storm, Terra Nova wants words with you) Balance? (Let's keep dudes and massive card advantage in check).

[Protoaddict]

I would love to see balance, but do not think it being unrestricted is the answer to this problem since it does not punch through the counter wall which is the problem that TC feeds.

[diopter]

Fast-tracking an unrestriction to justify not restricting another card is probably a decent indicator that the latter card is a problem.

[Smmenen]

Fast-tracking an unrestriction to justify not restricting another card is probably a decent indicator that the latter card is a problem.

Very well put.  While I agree, it is prohibited to have discussions on this topic in this thread.  Perhaps someone should start a poll in the Vintage issues forum?

[TheWhiteDragon]

Rest assured, people will figure out how to hate on UR delvers, Treasure Cruise, etc. But I think you have to accept it as a new force by now. (Even if treasure cruise would be restricted: 1 cruise, 1 dig, 2 other slots. No big deal.)

So, what is the big secret to beating it then? How do you "figure out a way" to beat the deck that has the best draw engine the most efficient threats, and an endless supply of answers?

Volcanic fallout. I have not seen anyone play it yet because people are so slow to adapt but it wipes the board 99% of the time and is immune to every counter they have. It wont win you the game but it will reset them to the point that they NEED to play TC just to stay in the game.

The challenge it to find a home for fallout now, but it is a strong card against dredge and humans as well so maybe people can figure it out.

I play burn and won the last local modern FNM with it.  4x fallout, 4x searing blaze maindeck.  Delver doesn't stand a chance.  Granted, burn doesnt work in vintage, but fallout is a GREAT answer.

[MaximumCDawg]

Rest assured, people will figure out how to hate on UR delvers, Treasure Cruise, etc. But I think you have to accept it as a new force by now. (Even if treasure cruise would be restricted: 1 cruise, 1 dig, 2 other slots. No big deal.)

So, what is the big secret to beating it then? How do you "figure out a way" to beat the deck that has the best draw engine the most efficient threats, and an endless supply of answers?

Volcanic fallout. I have not seen anyone play it yet because people are so slow to adapt but it wipes the board 99% of the time and is immune to every counter they have. It wont win you the game but it will reset them to the point that they NEED to play TC just to stay in the game.

The challenge it to find a home for fallout now, but it is a strong card against dredge and humans as well so maybe people can figure it out.

I play burn and won the last local modern FNM with it.  4x fallout, 4x searing blaze maindeck.  Delver doesn't stand a chance.  Granted, burn doesnt work in vintage, but fallout is a GREAT answer.

I dunno, I've seen burn steal a few games when you end up in a meta that's mostly delver and hatebears instead of the typical stuff.  Burn dies horribly to Vintage combo, but it does do it's thing very reliably.

[Prospero]

Guys, if we're going to discuss B/R list issues, we need to do it in the Vintage Issues Forum, not anywhere else.

[gribdogs]

Sorry, that was my bad.  I just figured it was easy to include in this topic.  I'd much rather brainstorm about how many decks we can shove it in now to abuse it in all it's glory while it is still unrestricted!!

[MaximumCDawg]

In the last few weeks, I've noticed a surge in the use of Nihil Spellbomb.  I now run two myself in Grixis lists -- maindeck.  Being able to keep an opponent off Khans draw cards like Treasure Cruise while also having maindeck dredge hate seems like where you want to be.

Are we going to see a drop in Dredge's stock as a result of this?  I can't remember the last time that some other strategy used the graveyard quite as dangerously as Dredge.  (Snapcaster was far more mild here and less affected by exiling half a dozen cantrips since you'd just cast more).  

[enderfall]

while also having maindeck shop hate seems like where you want to be.

Do you mean Dredge hate?

[MaximumCDawg]

while also having maindeck shop hate seems like where you want to be.

Do you mean Dredge hate?

Er, yep.  Fixed.

[davidasmatthews]

has anyone had any success pairing frantic search with treasure cruise?

[Protoaddict]

Since Frantic Search is -1 card every time you play it, it feels like a losing proposition to play them just to fuel card draw when there are other options. If you want to fill your yard for free without net losing CA, manamorphose is a better option even though its fewer cards.

Now if you fuel frantic with multi mana lands like academy it may be different, but those don't pair well with what TC is trying to do.

[MaximumCDawg]

I am running a singleton Intuition in my Grixis control list to fuel a pair of Digs and a Treasure Cruise.  It's clunky, but it works; essentially makes Intuition into a Concentrate or a 5 mana Memories. 

[VibeBox]

has anyone had any success pairing frantic search with treasure cruise?

dack fayden casts mental note every turn while also making workshop matchups much better.