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Author Topic: Magic Online Power Nine Owners  (Read 42400 times)
diophan
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« Reply #240 on: August 26, 2015, 12:25:28 pm »

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/index/VMA#online should be accurate.

I personally use mtgotraders.com (they have a 5-10% discount if you use paypal instead of tix), mtgowikiprice.com (widely used bot software with bot indexing), and if something is worth more than a few tix I check in the trade tab if anyone is selling for cheaper than those two sites.
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« Reply #241 on: August 26, 2015, 01:52:53 pm »

How much should I expect to pay for a full set of power and where should I go to purchase it for the best value?

I'm a fan of GoatBots but you have to pay them in tickets. However, you can usually find tickets at 1-5% off their retail price.

GoatBots currently has a full set of power for 265.94 which is closing in on half of what I paid D:

edit 13 October 2015: Now up to 283.41
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« Reply #242 on: August 29, 2015, 05:51:00 pm »

How much should I expect to pay for a full set of power and where should I go to purchase it for the best value?

I'm a fan of GoatBots but you have to pay them in tickets. However, you can usually find tickets at 1-5% off their retail price.

GoatBots currently has a full set of power for 265.94 which is closing in on half of what I paid D:

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I paid 3x the amount that people are paying now.  I don't feel too bad though because I had a solid few months of vintage online before most people bought in it seems.
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Islandswamp
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« Reply #243 on: August 29, 2015, 09:12:09 pm »

I have mixed feelings. I'm glad that I can play Magic, but I'm sad that the new tournaments for Vintage players are terrible. I can't make myself bother to play one.

So, if you like paying for tournaments with almost no prizes, then it's fantastic. Otherwise, you can just play for free against random, often substandard players, and maybe the match will come to a natural conclusion.

The only way to get any packs is to go undefeated, and those are the only results that are counted and recorded, so that's great too. This is the only way to really find healthy competition though.
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diophan
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« Reply #244 on: August 29, 2015, 11:02:25 pm »

I have mixed feelings. I'm glad that I can play Magic, but I'm sad that the new tournaments for Vintage players are terrible. I can't make myself bother to play one.

So, if you like paying for tournaments with almost no prizes, then it's fantastic. Otherwise, you can just play for free against random, often substandard players, and maybe the match will come to a natural conclusion.

The only way to get any packs is to go undefeated, and those are the only results that are counted and recorded, so that's great too. This is the only way to really find healthy competition though.

If you calculate the win percentage you need to break even under the old and new system it's almost exactly the same. Also even if you're quite good the EV you get from playing in a daily per hour under the old system is so low you could do basically anything else with your time and it would be more worthwhile. Playing tournaments in paper is under most circumstances terrible EV. I'm not sure why getting to play vintage for free against reasonable opponents if you're decent is so bad.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2015, 11:05:54 pm by diophan » Logged
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« Reply #245 on: August 30, 2015, 04:54:12 am »

I have mixed feelings. I'm glad that I can play Magic, but I'm sad that the new tournaments for Vintage players are terrible. I can't make myself bother to play one.

So, if you like paying for tournaments with almost no prizes, then it's fantastic. Otherwise, you can just play for free against random, often substandard players, and maybe the match will come to a natural conclusion.

The only way to get any packs is to go undefeated, and those are the only results that are counted and recorded, so that's great too. This is the only way to really find healthy competition though.

If you calculate the win percentage you need to break even under the old and new system it's almost exactly the same. Also even if you're quite good the EV you get from playing in a daily per hour under the old system is so low you could do basically anything else with your time and it would be more worthwhile. Playing tournaments in paper is under most circumstances terrible EV. I'm not sure why getting to play vintage for free against reasonable opponents if you're decent is so bad.

I think it is likely cheaper for me to "go infinite" under the new system, you are probably right. I don't know why it bothers me so much, to be honest. Maybe it's because I could win another frew daily and have leftover tix to buy cards with at 3-1 under the old system, and 2-1 here is just a refund for your entry fee.

Obviously, it's not a job, but it feels like we're always asked to pay more for less.
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« Reply #246 on: August 30, 2015, 04:58:02 pm »

Really the problem with the new daily events is that they are no longer subsidizing the prize pool. Under the old system more MSRP came out than was put in. Now less MSRP comes out than is put in and this is true of all events that pay out play points. Under the old system players were incentivized to lock in for 4 hours of play time. I calculated EV at a 50% win rate for the new daily events and playing 3 2-mans. The EV for daily events was 1 play point higher than just playing 3 2-mans. Why would I lock myself in to play for 3 hours to increase my EV by approximately 1 untradeable dime?
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« Reply #247 on: September 09, 2015, 07:20:52 am »

I gave up on vintage on MTGO. Made no sense to sit on $6000+ worth of "cards" to play what amounts to a glorified 8 man event. The attendance is bad, the prizes are bad, and the support for the format is nearly non-existant.

I cashed out at MTGO Traders, and jumped right into standard, modern, and limited, loving it so much more.

I could see buying back in, but not under the current conditions.
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« Reply #248 on: September 09, 2015, 10:08:52 am »

I gave up on vintage on MTGO. Made no sense to sit on $6000+ worth of "cards" to play what amounts to a glorified 8 man event. The attendance is bad, the prizes are bad, and the support for the format is nearly non-existant.

I cashed out at MTGO Traders, and jumped right into standard, modern, and limited, loving it so much more.

I could see buying back in, but not under the current conditions.

I feel the same way right now.
MTGO Vintage is just garbage. The payouts are atrocious and it just isn't fun anymore.
I am pretty disenchanted with Vintage on modo right now.
Perhaps you have the right idea Flash.
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diophan
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« Reply #249 on: September 09, 2015, 10:21:15 am »

I gave up on vintage on MTGO. Made no sense to sit on $6000+ worth of "cards" to play what amounts to a glorified 8 man event. The attendance is bad, the prizes are bad, and the support for the format is nearly non-existant.

I cashed out at MTGO Traders, and jumped right into standard, modern, and limited, loving it so much more.

I could see buying back in, but not under the current conditions.

I feel the same way right now.
MTGO Vintage is just garbage. The payouts are atrocious and it just isn't fun anymore.
I am pretty disenchanted with Vintage on modo right now.
Perhaps you have the right idea Flash.

Try playing in the player run events on gatherling if you can make it. The current schedule is Sunday 11am and Tuesday 8:30pm. Having more good players like you play in them would be very helpful. Hopefully if enough people start playing in them there can be some buy-in tournaments with real stakes. I'm aware the payouts aren't currently large but the foundation has to be built.
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« Reply #250 on: September 09, 2015, 10:33:04 am »

I gave up on vintage on MTGO. Made no sense to sit on $6000+ worth of "cards" to play what amounts to a glorified 8 man event. The attendance is bad, the prizes are bad, and the support for the format is nearly non-existant.

I cashed out at MTGO Traders, and jumped right into standard, modern, and limited, loving it so much more.

I could see buying back in, but not under the current conditions.

I feel the same way right now.
MTGO Vintage is just garbage. The payouts are atrocious and it just isn't fun anymore.
I am pretty disenchanted with Vintage on modo right now.
Perhaps you have the right idea Flash.

Try playing in the player run events on gatherling if you can make it. The current schedule is Sunday 11am and Tuesday 8:30pm. Having more good players like you play in them would be very helpful. Hopefully if enough people start playing in them there can be some buy-in tournaments with real stakes. I'm aware the payouts aren't currently large but the foundation has to be built.

Why not just player run tournaments on Cockatrice though?  Its essentially the same thing (in terms of the amount of effort that you have to put in as an organizer), costs $0 for people's decks, you don't have to be paid in MODO currency, and most of all you can actually play real Vintage without needing to attach yourself to the terrible interface that prevents the World Championship deck from being played.
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icecoldbath
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« Reply #251 on: September 11, 2015, 09:29:42 am »


[/quote]

Why not just player run tournaments on Cockatrice though?  Its essentially the same thing (in terms of the amount of effort that you have to put in as an organizer), costs $0 for people's decks, you don't have to be paid in MODO currency, and most of all you can actually play real Vintage without needing to attach yourself to the terrible interface that prevents the World Championship deck from being played.
[/quote]

Anyone who doesn't scoop to salvagers, with lotus and spell bomb in the yard is a miserable stooge. I didn't scoop to it once and it made me feel like a miserable stooge.
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vaughnbros
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« Reply #252 on: September 11, 2015, 10:16:59 am »



Why not just player run tournaments on Cockatrice though?  Its essentially the same thing (in terms of the amount of effort that you have to put in as an organizer), costs $0 for people's decks, you don't have to be paid in MODO currency, and most of all you can actually play real Vintage without needing to attach yourself to the terrible interface that prevents the World Championship deck from being played.
[/quote]

Anyone who doesn't scoop to salvagers, with lotus and spell bomb in the yard is a miserable stooge. I didn't scoop to it once and it made me feel like a miserable stooge.
[/quote]

They are completely in their right to do so though according to MODOs rules.
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diophan
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« Reply #253 on: September 11, 2015, 10:36:14 am »

This argument is rather off topic, but despite how much people (mostly rightly) like to bash modo it has many advantages over playing on cockatrice. The rules (minus loops) are actually implemented so you don't need to argue with your opponents. The chess clock is IMO the best way to manage time and one reason I like modo more than playing in person.

While not relevant to free to play PREs, a huge advantage in my opinion is that events cost money. My time is worth something to me and I'd much rather play against someone playing a deck which they think has enough chance of winning that they're paying to play it. Wizards has a bit of work to do in rewarding players for the new dailies, but my point still stands.

Finally, not everyone who plays vintage on modo knows what cockatrice is, or for that matter what TMD is. There are grinders who (used to) play in the dailies and lots of others who aren't vintage regulars.

I don't think anyone who uses modo is going to try and stop people from making tournaments on cockatrice, but some people prefer modo and will continue using it.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 10:42:33 am by diophan » Logged
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« Reply #254 on: September 11, 2015, 11:29:59 am »

I gave up on vintage on MTGO. Made no sense to sit on $6000+ worth of "cards" to play what amounts to a glorified 8 man event. The attendance is bad, the prizes are bad, and the support for the format is nearly non-existant.

I cashed out at MTGO Traders, and jumped right into standard, modern, and limited, loving it so much more.

I could see buying back in, but not under the current conditions.

I feel the same way right now.
MTGO Vintage is just garbage. The payouts are atrocious and it just isn't fun anymore.
I am pretty disenchanted with Vintage on modo right now.
Perhaps you have the right idea Flash.

Try playing in the player run events on gatherling if you can make it. The current schedule is Sunday 11am and Tuesday 8:30pm. Having more good players like you play in them would be very helpful. Hopefully if enough people start playing in them there can be some buy-in tournaments with real stakes. I'm aware the payouts aren't currently large but the foundation has to be built.

Perhaps I will jump in sometime, but I just have no incentive to play a tournament that pays out 5 tickets to first place.
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« Reply #255 on: September 14, 2015, 10:08:41 pm »

I gave up on vintage on MTGO. Made no sense to sit on $6000+ worth of "cards" to play what amounts to a glorified 8 man event. The attendance is bad, the prizes are bad, and the support for the format is nearly non-existant.

I cashed out at MTGO Traders, and jumped right into standard, modern, and limited, loving it so much more.

I could see buying back in, but not under the current conditions.

I feel the same way right now.
MTGO Vintage is just garbage. The payouts are atrocious and it just isn't fun anymore.
I am pretty disenchanted with Vintage on modo right now.
Perhaps you have the right idea Flash.

Try playing in the player run events on gatherling if you can make it. The current schedule is Sunday 11am and Tuesday 8:30pm. Having more good players like you play in them would be very helpful. Hopefully if enough people start playing in them there can be some buy-in tournaments with real stakes. I'm aware the payouts aren't currently large but the foundation has to be built.

Perhaps I will jump in sometime, but I just have no incentive to play a tournament that pays out 5 tickets to first place.


Well, that isn't a ton of money. True. It's free though, so I like it better than playing to earn nearly nothing. Those 8-player tournaments only have real prizes for the one or two people that go undefeated.

I don't always have to be betting money to enjoy myself. If I'm going to risk money though, I want a decent incentive. I played all three rounds of exactly one of the new DEs, and I went 2-1. A lot of that one was a coin flip anyway, but still, I won my entry fee back. Sweet. Feels so much better than just not paying money and playing with my friends in free play (insert sarcastic emoticon).

I don't blame you for not liking the tournament offerings, but if playing the game is the ultimate goal, then the PRE's are actually pretty good.
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« Reply #256 on: September 14, 2015, 11:19:17 pm »

It is worth pointing out that this PRE has a much higher EV than a Daily.
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« Reply #257 on: September 15, 2015, 12:04:43 am »

What are these new "leagues" on the MTGO interface? It doesn't look like there's anything besides Standard, unfortunately?

Also what am I supposed to do with QPs? I need to win 5 "dailies" (weekendlies) in 4 weeks (!) to use them for anything?
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« Reply #258 on: September 15, 2015, 04:11:45 pm »

What are these new "leagues" on the MTGO interface? It doesn't look like there's anything besides Standard, unfortunately?

It's basically a play when you want tournament. Sign up, play x matches between now and whenever the league closes. Collect prizes, if any, once  you have played your x league matches. The idea is that you don't have to wait for the entire tournament to be ready for you to play your next round and you don't have to commit one giant block of time to play in a tournament.

They are standard only but the claim is that's only temporary.
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« Reply #259 on: September 22, 2015, 03:27:10 am »

I gave up on vintage on MTGO. Made no sense to sit on $6000+ worth of "cards" to play what amounts to a glorified 8 man event. The attendance is bad, the prizes are bad, and the support for the format is nearly non-existant.

I cashed out at MTGO Traders, and jumped right into standard, modern, and limited, loving it so much more.

I could see buying back in, but not under the current conditions.

Sold my collection yesterday to Cardhoarder. Not quitting Magic in any way, the funds immeadiately went into more Alpha goodies for my oldschool 93/94 pool and I still have a full pool for building paper Vintage decks.

I just found that I really haven't enjoyed playing in Modo, and the only thing that is really cool is Holiday Cube Drafting with a lot of friends in Skype to share the screen and discuss picks and plays - really a lot of fun, and no collection needed for that.

Whenever I'm on a PC and want to play something, I chose a lot of other great games - didn't *even once* play Vintage on Modo in 2015.

Like the post above, I'd consider buying in again if the program/presentation did radically improve.
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« Reply #260 on: September 22, 2015, 06:54:34 am »

I was hospitalised a few weeks back and took my laptop with my old install of MTGO. It was great to have something quick to do between getting various shots etc. I actually have most of the power (sans Lotus + Twister) and could borrow what I needed off friends. I had not played for a while on MTGO and it's still the same crappy UI.

I think MTGO, would be a lot more popular if they also offered a cleaner, smaller install for tablets. No need for Trading etc, just access to the play rooms would cut down on some space I am sure. Naturally cross compatibility would be nice. Just being able to set up a game on a lunch break etc would be fantastic and I would certainly be playing more MTGO.

But that's all I see for the future of this product as it is right now. It would be great to be able to take advantage of a free wi-fi signal and get a game or two in; much like hearthstone currently.

As it is, why would I come home after work etc, to play magic on a buggy program with terrible UI? The three or so hours I could give at those times is far better spent on a multitude of other games. At this point I don't even have MTGO installed on my main PC. I enjoy Magic, especially Vintage but the EV of playing it right now is so low that it's not worth unless I am in a real mood for magic or there is a big even I know I want to play in; which after the all the changes there does not seem to be any.

I am very much for the improvement of MTGO and will keep my cards etc, but you will find me rarely actually using it.

I really feel that MTGO needs a competitor, something that would make them stand up and pay attention to improve their product but as it's all owned by WotC who are unlikely to lease out their IP there is no chance of that.
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« Reply #261 on: October 08, 2015, 09:28:05 am »

Ok, reading thru this I only have 1 question: can you still get the vintage cards on mtgo?  I just got my account back. I have just shy of 13k cards from Kamigawa thru about coldsnap  If so, how do I go about it? I'm going to read back thru the thread a bit more closely and hopefully tonight I'll have some time to poke around. But the interface and gameplay are nothing like what I remember from back in 2006 when it was quick and easy to use.
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« Reply #262 on: October 08, 2015, 10:40:59 am »

Ok, reading thru this I only have 1 question: can you still get the vintage cards on mtgo?  I just got my account back. I have just shy of 13k cards from Kamigawa thru about coldsnap  If so, how do I go about it? I'm going to read back thru the thread a bit more closely and hopefully tonight I'll have some time to poke around. But the interface and gameplay are nothing like what I remember from back in 2006 when it was quick and easy to use.

Yes the cards are still available on magic online Khahan.
You cannot buy the Vintage Masters Boosters any longer from the store, but can buy the singles from private owners.
Your best bet is to goto the Classifieds and search for what you are looking for ie) Black Lotus.
Another option is if you are not penny pinching to go to a site like http://www.mtgotraders.com/store/index.html
and you can purchase them there as well as use as a loose price guide.
If you have any questions feel free to look me up online and I can help you navigate things.
The interface is very likely alien since you last where around.
Things have changed alot since then.
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« Reply #263 on: October 08, 2015, 10:55:36 am »

Thanks Montolio. I saw something about a tmd clan. I'll have to get hooked up with that too.  I went and found that p9 at mtgotraders.com along with a full set of duals and the blue fetchlands, tolarian, stripmine, workshops and library was like $540.  Add in FoW, mana drain and a few other cards I would need for the deck I want and I'm looking at about $800 to get started, maybe more as I haven't looked up my whole deck  yet.  Though once over that initial hump building from there wouldn't be so bad. Any other deck I'd want to build in Vintage I'd have all the expensive cards out of the way and it would just be nickel and dime stuff after that.

Definitely something to consider. I have to talk to my local shop and see how serious they are about starting a vintage scene up in my area again. If its not going to happen then I'd be spending a few hundred dollars basically to just goldfish for fun. If they're starting it up though and are serious about it I'll probably jump in with both feet and join up.

The old store owner has owed me a timewalk I loaned him for a prize in a tournament now for about 7 years. Maybe I'll offer to let him buy me the P9 online and call it even.
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« Reply #264 on: October 08, 2015, 05:51:03 pm »

Thanks Montolio. I saw something about a tmd clan. I'll have to get hooked up with that too.  I went and found that p9 at mtgotraders.com along with a full set of duals and the blue fetchlands, tolarian, stripmine, workshops and library was like $540.  Add in FoW, mana drain and a few other cards I would need for the deck I want and I'm looking at about $800 to get started, maybe more as I haven't looked up my whole deck  yet.  Though once over that initial hump building from there wouldn't be so bad. Any other deck I'd want to build in Vintage I'd have all the expensive cards out of the way and it would just be nickel and dime stuff after that.


If you aren't familiar with it, the site MTGGoldfish.com is a great site if you want to get a sense for what it would cost to build most of the popular decks acrossed formats. Also, while looking at decks there is a link to buy the complete deck. Not practical if you have a good collection going, but great if you know where you want to jump in. I think its fair to say MTGO has it shortcomings, but I honestly have never had more fun with the actual playing the game part of Magic as I have since I got into Vintage on MTGO. The collecting and people part is inferior and I find multiplayer to be unplayable, but regular two players games are great. Hope you decide to join in the fun.
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« Reply #265 on: October 08, 2015, 06:36:29 pm »

Was told this is the place to ask to get added to TMD clan on MtgO.  Can I get an invite to it?  Working on funds to get a T1 set together and start play testing and playing seriously again.
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« Reply #266 on: November 03, 2015, 11:24:19 am »

Black Lotus increased $11 today, making it worth $119. Moxes have also been gradually increasing. Hopefully this trend continues. I wonder of the P9 series is drumming up interest for power
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« Reply #267 on: November 03, 2015, 12:25:20 pm »

I have been seeing quite a few new faces playing Vintage in both DE's and in TP room.
People like to play for big prizes, so perhaps the P9 series is indeed causing an influx of new blood.
Can't wait for the next one!
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« Reply #268 on: November 03, 2015, 03:28:08 pm »

I have been seeing quite a few new faces playing Vintage in both DE's and in TP room.
People like to play for big prizes, so perhaps the P9 series is indeed causing an influx of new blood.
Can't wait for the next one!

Vintage on MTGO definitely seems to be trending upwards. I've had several new players message me to tell me that they decided to buy into the format after reading the intro articles I did.

I think that the tournaments are drawing a lot of people in as well. Seems great all-around, and I hope to be able to play in the next one.
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« Reply #269 on: November 04, 2015, 09:59:48 am »

Still not going to buy in until they release a Mac client...
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