[Free Article] Frontrunners For The Vintage Championship

[forests failed you]

New Vintage article up on Starcitygames.com.  Today, I take a look at the decks that I think will be the format defining decks for the upcoming Vintage Championship at Eternal Weekend.  I think that these decks (in general) make up a really good testing gauntlet for what I would expect a large chunk of the metagame to look like.

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/29563_Frontrunners-For-The-Vintage-Championship.html

Predictions?  Which archetype will ultimately win the tournament?

My money is on Mishra's Workshop this time around for the reasons that I discuss in the article.  Check it out and me know what you think! 

I hope to see many familiar faces at Eternal Weekend in a couple of days and for those of you TMD regulars and SCG readers that I haven't met yet I hope that you say hello!  Very excited to play some Vintage.  Cheers, Brian

[KrauserKrauser]

You didn't mention it in the article, but what are your feelings on Oath?

Since the format has more decks with Creatures as their primary kill condition than in the last few years, shouldn't that up their prospects for the event?

[nedleeds]

Nice summary but Sultai Fish burns my soul.

[forests failed you]

From the comments on SCG responding to Tom Dixon asking about why BUG fish wasn't on my list:

"Actually, Grixis combo control decks have won 4. Control Slaver, Gifts,and Grixis Bob Vault x2.

I can't reasonably make a "frontrunner" list and put EVERYTHING on it. From what I've seen I think Workshop is the odds on favorite to win the event. My issue with various Deathrite Shaman is that it is in so many different archetypes, so I just listed the card. It goes into 4c Control, Fish, Midrange, etc.

I learned my lesson a couple of years ago about saying which decks I think are bad or can't win when Dredge won the event. Basically, any deck can win on any given day. However, I think that there are certain archetypes that will be more played and are maybe a little bit better positioned. Workshop, Mana Drain / Combo-control, and UR Delver are decks that I think will get a ton of play and are all extremely good right now. Based on their popularity and power I think these are probably the most important decks for players to understand what is going on and have a plan for at the moment.

Rather than put a specific Deathrite Shaman deck I just put the card because it goes into such a wide range of decks. I think there is a really good shot that DRS wins the event, but in what archetype? Control? Midrange? Fish? Beatdown? I don't specifically think its more likely that Sultai Fish wins the event or a 4 or 5C Deathrite Control deck. So, long story short, in Vintage literally nothing surprises me any more because of how large the card pool is, but my suggestion is that going into the event Workshop, Drains, and Delvers are going to be very important. I anticipate I will play against those three decks A LOT."

In the article I said that I think literally any of the "real decks" can win the event.  Everything is really powerful and winning die rolls and getting nice match ups and nice hands goes a long way.  I picked the three decks that I think all are good enough to win lots of rounds, win multiple top eight matches in a row, and that are going to see A LOT of play at this event:

Mishra's Workshop
Mana Drain Combo Control
Delver

If you had to pick three, I think this is a very, very defensible three decks to pick here.

I played Oath last year and I think the deck is outstanding but there are a lot of Grafdigger's Cages out there.  It is the best card against Oath and it is basically one of the most universally played cards in the format.  That dynamic, and the fact that it has to battle uphill against a lot of hate is one of the things that make me believe it isn't a favorite to win the event.  But, the deck is great, insanely powerful, and obviously could win the event.

Sultai I described in my response to Tom Dixon.

[Samoht]

Responded to Brian:

I accept. UBg has won its fair share but I stand (well I sit) corrected. I still think that the UBr Control/Combo decks have an abysmal Delver match up and really are terribly positioned for the event. As you mention, anyone can run hot with the power level of cards we have, but I don't think that's a good bet this year. I did gloss over you saying "Sultai X" decks because I refuse to use these absurd names to categorize decks. It's worse than people using the Shards for everything even if you aren't using the Shard's mechanic. I agree UBg is well positioned because of the power level of Deathrite and Abrupt Decay. I look forward to seeing the actual results.

I think you overestimate typical Drains, but we'll see how that plays out on Sunday.

[Will]

I picked the three decks that I think all are good enough to win lots of rounds, win multiple top eight matches in a row, and that are going to see A LOT of play at this event:

Mishra's Workshop
Mana Drain Combo Control
Delver

If you had to pick three, I think this is a very, very defensible three decks to pick here.

Is that even really picking a deck? I know that you explain in your article and your response that you think any of the "real decks" can win, but that is likely going to be half of the field. Here are all viable decks which fit into your description:

Metalworker Shops
Martello Shops
Terra Nova
Espresso
Tezzeret Control
Bomberman/Humans
Grixis
Control Oath
Gush Storm (possibly plays Drain)
RUG Delver
UR Delver
4c Delver

I thought that the article in general was great, but narrowing down your choice based on that is kind of a cop out in my opinion.

[forests failed you]

I picked the three decks that I think all are good enough to win lots of rounds, win multiple top eight matches in a row, and that are going to see A LOT of play at this event:

Mishra's Workshop
Mana Drain Combo Control
Delver

If you had to pick three, I think this is a very, very defensible three decks to pick here.

Is that even really picking a deck? I know that you explain in your article and your response that you think any of the "real decks" can win, but that is likely going to be half of the field. Here are all viable decks which fit into your description:

Metalworker Shops
Martello Shops
Terra Nova
Espresso
Tezzeret Control
Bomberman/Humans
Grixis
Control Oath
Gush Storm (possibly plays Drain)
RUG Delver
UR Delver
4c Delver

I thought that the article in general was great, but narrowing down your choice based on that is kind of a cop out in my opinion.

I mean, in the article I did pick exemplary decks from the archetypes, right?  I said Tezzeret, MUD (either Null Rods or Forgemasters are equally great), and UR Delver.

[Will]

I picked the three decks that I think all are good enough to win lots of rounds, win multiple top eight matches in a row, and that are going to see A LOT of play at this event:

Mishra's Workshop
Mana Drain Combo Control
Delver

If you had to pick three, I think this is a very, very defensible three decks to pick here.

Is that even really picking a deck? I know that you explain in your article and your response that you think any of the "real decks" can win, but that is likely going to be half of the field. Here are all viable decks which fit into your description:

Metalworker Shops
Martello Shops
Terra Nova
Espresso
Tezzeret Control
Bomberman/Humans
Grixis
Control Oath
Gush Storm (possibly plays Drain)
RUG Delver
UR Delver
4c Delver

I thought that the article in general was great, but narrowing down your choice based on that is kind of a cop out in my opinion.

I mean, in the article I did pick exemplary decks from the archetypes, right?  I said Tezzeret, MUD (either Null Rods or Forgemasters are equally great), and UR Delver.

That's a fair point. Any reason that you didn't mention Dig Through Time at all in your article? I suspect that it will be a big player at Champs, specifically in the Mana Drain Combo Control strategies like Tezzeret. I guess it has been overshadowed by Treasure Cruise, but it in my opinion it seems like it merits at least one sentence in the article.

[forests failed you]

I didn't mention Dig Through Time because I haven't seen or played with a Dig Through Time deck that I thought was going to be a big time player this weekend.  It's obviously a powerful card and no doubt it is probably fantastic in the right deck, but I just haven't seen that deck yet.  If anybody has a list of that archetype that people can take a look at feel free to post it in the thread. 

[YamiKuriboh]

Great article. I predict delver will come out on top. It's been tearing up modern and legacy so vintage is the natural next stop! You mention that mishra's workshop seems very well placed at the moment - well delver is very favourable in that match up imo. I think it will be the most played deck so has the most chance to win the thing.

[Samoht]

Great article. I predict delver will come out on top. It's been tearing up modern and legacy so vintage is the natural next stop! You mention that mishra's workshop seems very well placed at the moment - well delver is very favourable in that match up imo. I think it will be the most played deck so has the most chance to win the thing.

Delver is very poorly designed against competent Shop players. So many cards are super threats. Sphere/Thorn, Tangle Wire, Chalice 1, and then the actual threats of LSG, Forgemaster, etc. Sure there are lines and builds of URg Delver that make the match up better, but I think calling it favorable is a stretch. I agree that it's the #1 played deck, I'm unsure if it wins the whole thing.

[brianpk80]

Nice article.  But what is going on with the awkward use of Khans terms censoring the names we've been accustomed to for years?  "Sultai Fish" is contrived and ridiculous sounding.  No one looks at Dark Confidant, Snapcaster, Deathrite, & Wasteland and thinks of Sidisi, Brood Tyrant.  It's like there's been an order given for the most prominent publishers of content to force their writers to use these cumbersome names for branding/marketing purposes, which is a rational objective but the approach is misguided.  If the language absorption doesn't happen naturally, it wasn't meant to be.  Most of these terms simply don't work outside of the Khans context and saturating readers with their forced assimilation is Orwellian and alienating.  

[KrauserKrauser]

I think the writers are being forced to use it to go along with Wizards.

The Shards in Alara were embraced fairly quickly and these will eventually seem as normal as they are now.  They just need to keep on using them until they become familiar.

Some will still refer to the archetypes as BUG, RUG, etc. just like I refer to Magic Online as MTGO and Commander as EDH.

[Varal]

I don't think the author has any choice as to what it calls decks. It seems like the editor changes them to their own criteria. I'm not certain all the shards will go into common usage. I don't know all the old shards and guilds name and I'm probably not the only one.

[evouga]

Great article. I predict delver will come out on top. It's been tearing up modern and legacy so vintage is the natural next stop! You mention that mishra's workshop seems very well placed at the moment - well delver is very favourable in that match up imo. I think it will be the most played deck so has the most chance to win the thing.

Delver is very poorly designed against competent Shop players. So many cards are super threats. Sphere/Thorn, Tangle Wire, Chalice 1, and then the actual threats of LSG, Forgemaster, etc. Sure there are lines and builds of URg Delver that make the match up better, but I think calling it favorable is a stretch. I agree that it's the #1 played deck, I'm unsure if it wins the whole thing.

I agree with Brian that shops is the favorite to win the tournament, largely because it preys on the Delver/Pyromancer decks with new toys that many, many people will be playing.

[evouga]

I don't think the author has any choice as to what it calls decks. It seems like the editor changes them to their own criteria. I'm not certain all the shards will go into common usage. I don't know all the old shards and guilds name and I'm probably not the only one.

Is it confirmed that Starcity has a policy of renaming decks in this way? That's pretty shady.

[GrandpaBelcher]

I don't think the author has any choice as to what it calls decks. It seems like the editor changes them to their own criteria. I'm not certain all the shards will go into common usage. I don't know all the old shards and guilds name and I'm probably not the only one.

Is it confirmed that Starcity has a policy of renaming decks in this way? That's pretty shady.

I think several of the "major" MTG publishers are doing this. Legit told its writers to start doing it too.

[Templar]

The one thing I really agree with in the article is that chasing "the best deck" in Vintage is a fool's errand.  The variance between one deck and the next is often fairly small, and I do agree that your best bet is to play a deck that you know intimately, rather than switching because you heard Deck X won the last Vintage tournament that was reported on.

[Samoht]

I refuse to use the original Shard names unless using the mechanic that identified the Shard. Bant was the only one that really used it to my knowledge (Exalted was real), though there was an Unearth (Grixis) deck in Standard for a little while. I also believe that the Open the Vaults deck used some colored artifacts so we can call that Esper. Otherwise, knock it of calling your non-Devour deck Jund. I've yet to see anyone using the Naya Mechanic in any meaningful way either outside of EDH. The worst part of my Deck Tech at the PT was that they insisted it be referred to as Jund despite me writing out that it was GBR Midrange.

With all that said, Slaughter Smurfs for life!

[brianpk80]

Thanks for the feedback.  To be clear, I wasn't criticizing Brian as it's not his fault.  I'm used to seeing these terms in articles about Modern and so forth but to see them in a Vintage read caused an initial shock. 

[forests failed you]

Yeah, I don't really have any say in the matter of what to call the wedges in my articles and referring to BUG and RUG as Sultai and Temur is pretty much new standard operating procedure at this point.  Sultai and Temur Delver takes a little getting used to, but it is a good thing overall moving forward.

[serracollector]

With the current mass of creature decks being in abundance would a meta call be playing something with The Abyss one or two Toxic Deluge and even maybe a maindeck Tabernacle At Pendralvale be a bad call? Maybe some super friends deck featuring broken cards tutors and the tinkerbot time vault win along side jace and tezz one or two?

[brianpk80]

With the current mass of creature decks being in abundance would a meta call be playing something with The Abyss one or two Toxic Deluge and even maybe a maindeck Tabernacle At Pendralvale be a bad call? Maybe some super friends deck featuring broken cards tutors and the tinkerbot time vault win along side jace and tezz one or two?

The Abyss is a blowout card in several match-ups but its potential is severely limited by the fact that it's 100% noninteractive with Shops and Tinkerbots. 

[Hrishi]

I have been maindecking the card for a few months now

Just keep in mind that it doesn't help you against Young Pyromancer for the most part so you need to answer that problem elsewhere. It's worth noting that it dodges Abrupt Decay so it's quite hard to remove too.

[serracollector]

Well i have been working on a super friends list with three Dig Through Time but im lost on whether to go with white or red as my third color. Assuming i am running one main deck Abyss and one Toxic Deluge this is how i see the rest:  Balance = Pyroclasm, Swords to Plow = Lightning Bolt, Disenchant = Dack Fayden/Chewer, Moat = Circle of Flame.  Balance being the main reason I am leaning towards Esper over Grixis as well as swords exiling dudes making delve at least a lil harder to get but I really like Dack. What do you guys think?

[vaughnbros]

I have been maindecking the card for a few months now

Just keep in mind that it doesn't help you against Young Pyromancer for the most part so you need to answer that problem elsewhere. It's worth noting that it dodges Abrupt Decay so it's quite hard to remove too.

So it's bad against dredge, shops, YP (aka delver), oath, landstill, ect.  That has to be like 50% of any meta.  Doesn't seem like a main deck card.

[Hrishi]

I have been maindecking the card for a few months now

Just keep in mind that it doesn't help you against Young Pyromancer for the most part so you need to answer that problem elsewhere. It's worth noting that it dodges Abrupt Decay so it's quite hard to remove too.

So it's bad against dredge, shops, YP (aka delver), oath, landstill, ect.  That has to be like 50% of any meta.  Doesn't seem like a main deck card.

It forces delver into annoying situations. You can be more selective on what you need to counter. It also has splash damage across a number of decks, even if that splash damage is small. We play other cards with minor splash damage already that are dead to a portion of the metagame. It's also not like we're playing 4 copies, I switch between 1-2. The card isn't for everybody, and I don't suppose I'll convince anyone, but I have been very happy with it.

[forests failed you]

Young Pyromancer is pretty good against The Abyss...  On the flipside, The Abyss seems quite good against Sultai creature decks and Merfolk.  It feels like a sideboard card that would be really above average against a few creature decks, but almost not worth bringing in against others.  I'd probably be looking for my creature hate cards to be a little bit more flexible.  Dismember, Abrupt Decay, Toxic Deluge, etc.

[portland]

I didn't mention Dig Through Time because I haven't seen or played with a Dig Through Time deck that I thought was going to be a big time player this weekend.  It's obviously a powerful card and no doubt it is probably fantastic in the right deck, but I just haven't seen that deck yet.  If anybody has a list of that archetype that people can take a look at feel free to post it in the thread. 

Think people are still looking for the right deck, but a UR(g) Delver shell may well be the place, ironically, possibly losing the delvers. Having had a wee fettle, the stuff you can pull off with a gush/fastbond engine with mucho cantrips and Cruise is pretty disgusting. Chalice is a thing, but given it's general sturdiness, you can point a lot more board slots at your biggest problem deck: Mountain and 4 chewers, then start adding sabotage and grudge as required.

Assuming every other deck isn't the fun police, I'd be pitching for a Delver build of some nature to come out on top, be that a more combo oriented one or vanilla xerox style build.

Re the Abyss comments, I wouldn't be especially concerned as a delver player with a 4 drop resolving or being much of a concern to a pyro. If it takes down a delver, 3B to take down a U drop doesn't seem the best. My enchant worlds have been very dusty for many a year.

[JarofFortune]

Why do people think UBG fish is well positioned? Unless someone comes up with an innovative take on the archetype, it will be very hard to fight through all of the Forgemasters and Delver Cruise decks. Decay and Deathrite are great cards, but that doesn't matter when you're outdrawn consistently by what will be one of the two most popular decks in the room and can't interact meaningfully with what will be the other most popular deck.