New Spoiled cards

[Protoaddict]

Lots of new stuff spoiled from Fate Reforged today. Not seeing a ton of cards that have vintage application but def some abilities that do.

Delve returns and we get a non flying -  1 mana cheaper tomb stalker in Gurmag Angler which in decks that would want to run tombstalker may be better, though that ship has maybe flown already.


We also get a new way to interact with delve in Soulflayer, which I think has gobs of potential just because it may very well be the best 2 mana creature you can make in the game at times.


I also think this new guy has a ton of potential in delver style lists, though I'm not sure if there is room for him yet.


I am not yet sold on how impactful this set will be, especially compared to Khans, and now with a second goofy morph ability (that I believe works really well with Phyrexian Dreadnaught?) who knows what direction Wotc is going in.

[Meddling Mike]

The Angler is better than a tombstalker, but I'm reasonably confident that won't be enough. The gold standard for generic fat without disruption/evasion right now is Tarmogoyf. The thing about Goyf is that you can sort of set it and forget it. Slip it in on turn 1-2 and watch it grow. You need to fill up your graveyard a bit before you can drop the Angler so he starts later, kicks your snapcaster/regrowth/yawg will etc. in the nuts and ties up your mana when you're going to want to be doing other things with it. Maybe a post-board alternate win condition for Dredge or something?

It's the same story for the Demon. The chance of dumping some keyword abilities on it doesn't really help. The double black would make it a taller order for Dredge, although it might get Flying from a Narcomoeba or something.

The sage is slightly more interesting, but I would still be surprised if it saw any Vintage play. If you're looking to play it in Delver you're looking to make room probably by getting rid of either the Delvers or the Young Pyromancers. So when you compare it to Delver it costs double. You have to cast two non-creature spells to get it up to the point where it hits as hard a flipped Delver. It has no evasion like a flipped delver does. So what's the idea? You're hoping that you can cast a few cantrips to pump him up and just do that for a few turns while sculpting a hand and keeping counters up? I don't know, seems like a stretch. Again, with Delver you could slip it in and if you're locked out by spheres it hits for 3 over a Lodestone Golem's head or it can trade straight up with a Lodestone Golem. I understand you want it in a certain kind of deck and sometimes you have to do a little work to flip a Delver, but even if you can't create those circumstances there is a reasonable chance it'll happen on it's own. The only thing that makes it an interesting discussion is that it cashes in for a card and Delver doesn't. It's hard to know exactly how much that factors into the equation.

Young Pyromancer also looks good in comparison. Better base stats and it generates a permanent rather than a temporary +1/+1. It pitches to FoW and cashes in for a card though, so it's got that going for it, which is nice.

[benk499]

I agree for the most part with Mike's analysis here.  The Angler seems cool, but I don't see where it's successful in Vintage.  I might grab some for my mono-black deck, but that's a just for fun deck anyway.

Soulflayer I find pretty powerful and intriguing, but just don't see a shell for it in Vintage.  I could see it being played in a Legacy Reanimator build though.  It can get around Grafdiggers cage and sort of act as a reanimation spell. 

The Sage I seems pretty weak.  It's a full two turns slower than than Monastery Swiftspear which is a border line Vintage card already and I don't see the card draw making up for that.

[MaximumCDawg]

Sage is not Vintage playable.  If you want ETB or LTB effects, there are better options.  If you want a creature that you cast and then pump, there are better options.  

Soulflayer does have potential.  If there is a reliable way to make it into a two-drop with evasion, haste, protection (hexproof) and ensure it finishes the game almost instantly (double strike comes close) then you have yourself a playable finisher.  However, you can't just use a reanimator strategy because then you're inferior to dredge.  You need to have some kind of pox/suiblack/nicfit type deck that can curve into him gradually as a kill.

The problem is that I do not think we have the other necessary pieces to make him work.  Flying is pretty easy to get on him by using fringe playable cards: Cloud of Faeries or Faerie Macabre, for example.  Hexproof is very difficult, however, as there are no creatures who naturally or incidentally end up in the yard who have hexproof.  Double Strike is similarly hard to pull off, with only a single 5-drop Bloodrush creature allowing you to set it up.

Soulflayer is the kind of card that can very quickly be catapulted from interesting to all-star by later printings, so let's stay tuned for a few years on this one.

EDIT: The other thing to look out for in this set is Manifest.  It is an ability word that generally puts cards from other zones onto the battlefield.  This involves the very dangerous game of putting things onto the battlefield without paying their casting or additional costs.  It is certainly possible that Wizards designs the set in such a way that we won't all be Manifesting anything dangerous, but stay tuned here, too.

[ben_berry]

Soul Summons + Cloudshift is almost white show and tell.

[MaximumCDawg]

Soul Summons + Cloudshift is almost white show and tell.

I actually disagree here.  Putting stuff from the top of your library into play for a reasonable cost can already be done on a single card, repeatedly, and it sees no play.  You can do it with Aethermage's Touch (temporary), Call of the Wild (permanent), Game Preserve (permanent, but conditional), Impromtu Raid (temporary, but hasty), etc, etc.  It turns out that getting the perfect card from the top into play is actually pretty tricky to do.  I don't see how making this type of interaction span over two cards makes it worthwhile, even if it does drop the cost to 1WW.

On the flip side, one of the best ways to get a card on top of your library when you want it is Conch Horn, and if someone can get more total garbage cards illustrated by Phil Folgio to play in Vintage, they have my blessing.

[ben_berry]

It does have the advantage of working with any permanent though. Not just creatures.

[JarofFortune]

I'd say tombstalker is better than the Angler due to being able to fly over Pyromancer tokens.

Soul flayer seems like it could be powerful if someone finds a way to consistently exile sphinx of the steel wind with it, but doing the work to get to that point may not be worth it.

[MaximumCDawg]

I'd say tombstalker is better than the Angler due to being able to fly over Pyromancer tokens.

Soul flayer seems like it could be powerful if someone finds a way to consistently exile sphinx of the steel wind with it, but doing the work to get to that point may not be worth it.

I dont see it.   I think it needs flying, hexproof, and double strike consistently to be Vintage playable.  If you get that far, it's a difficult-to-remove two-turn clock and we can have a conversation about playability.

[Hrishi]

I feel like the double black cost in Soulflayer kills it. I'd be much more intrigued by it's possibilities if it cost a single black + colorless.

[JarofFortune]

I dont see it.   I think it needs flying, hexproof, and double strike consistently to be Vintage playable.  If you get that far, it's a difficult-to-remove two-turn clock and we can have a conversation about playability.

i don't think it needs hexproof in a format of bolts. Which actually means it looks very good with drogskol reaver with your suggestions of abilities.

[youhavenogame]

There we go!

[tribet]

After Treasure Cruise & DTT's flop, Wizards R&D made this card unplayable. There is no in-between with them, it's sad.

[Protoaddict]

Do you really think this is "unplayable?" Its not Treasure cruise, which most people will agree is undercosted, but 3 mana time walk seems powerful enough to me.

I can easily imagine this in oath as a second or third time walk before a regrowth effect because the combined needed CMC at that point is 3 vs 4, and having a variety of spells that do the same thing is good against extirpate and cabal therapy. Its the best time walk we have gotten in a long time though when you compare it to the miracle walk or the dude who needs counters.

[boggyb]

Wowzers.

Isn't Time Walk approximately the best card in Delver decks? Now they have 2-3 more?

[MaximumCDawg]

Now this is a card I can get behind.  The first ability is unique, and potentially very powerful.  Delver and Burn get an amazing boost out of this.  The second ability has combo written all over it, though admittedly it needs some help.

[diopter]

1.) Soulfire Grand Master + Seething Song - bananas!

2.) What does burn (not in Vintage obv) gain from this? Probably won't break the mirror as he can be burned. Gives you a lategame maybe?

3.) Love the messaging on that ability. U/R: so you're either going to draw a bunch of cards, or turn your Bolts into Hammers of Bogardan. That is pretty much what is going to happen.

[Samoht]

Erm, 7 mana to make 5 isn't bananas.

[MaximumCDawg]

Erm, 7 mana to make 5 isn't bananas.

Yeah, I made the same mistake.  If you ignore the fact that Seething Song ITSELF costs 3 mana, it's an easy mistake to make.

[diopter]

Wow, that was embarassing!!!
Sorry!

[Demagoguery]

For 6 mana you win the game with a Time Walk, that's something I suppose?

The cool thing is that this does work with all the free spells, like FoW all of a sudden has 2UU as an additional better buy back cost since it doesn't have to resolve to go back to your hand.

[tito del monte]

I love the design of Soulfire Grand Master - lots of cool bells and whistles. But I really can't see him doing anything in any format where a) You have the cheaper option of Snapcaster for re-using spells (Dualcaster Mage at 3cmc has done nothing of note) and b) Lightning Bolt is the only spell anyone plays that does damage. Apart from Electrickery maybe!

Still, super fun happy times in EDH etc.

[evouga]

Soulfire Grand Master's first ability alone is insane for its cost in more casual formats. Small amounts of lifegain is usually overvalued, but there is nothing small about this guy + Bonfire of the Damned, Earthquake, Wildfire, Blasphemous Act, ...

[Samoht]

For 6 mana you win the game with a Time Walk, that's something I suppose?

The cool thing is that this does work with all the free spells, like FoW all of a sudden has 2UU as an additional better buy back cost since it doesn't have to resolve to go back to your hand.

"...as it resolves"

Check it again.

[MaximumCDawg]

Soulfire Grand Master's first ability alone is insane for its cost in more casual formats. Small amounts of lifegain is usually overvalued, but there is nothing small about this guy + Bonfire of the Damned, Earthquake, Wildfire, Blasphemous Act, ...

Lifegain has a sordid history in Magic.  In the early days they printed cards that gained life and did nothing else.  These cards were generally awful unless they were astoundingly efficient (Ivory Tower).  From time to time, however, we have been reminded that life gain incidental to some other useful ability is a very good thing (Armadillo Cloak, Baneslayer Angel, Batterskull, Sphinx' Revelation, Thragtusk, Deathrite Shaman, Scavenging Ooze, etc).  Soulfire can easily fall into the second camp in a sligh type deck, and that's cool.

[tribet]

Do you really think this is "unplayable?"

I think it's unplayable in the sense that cards such as Seedtime have been around for like 15years, yet nobody has been bothered sleeving them up to fight in the current meta & Delver mirrors. And yes it's dead against Shop so is this new card.

It's clear R&D got scared after KTK. Seeing that, really makes me think that they gonna restrict Cruise next.

PS: geez, I love Seedtime so much looking at it again

[tribet]

Cards such as Psionic Blast, Earthquake, Ashes to Ashes, Price of Progress ... interact positevely with this new lifelink guy, right?

Any powerful cards with horrible life damage drawback that you can think of?

[diopter]

Seedtime!

What a classic. I used to sideboard four of those in Extended of, oh, I wanna say 2003? Paired with Holistic Wisdom and Accumulated Knowledge in one of the most horrendous control decks that couldn't win a game against Burn.

Good times.

[TheWhiteDragon]

Cards such as Psionic Blast, Earthquake, Ashes to Ashes, Price of Progress ... interact positevely with this new lifelink guy, right?

Any powerful cards with horrible life damage drawback that you can think of?

I think this new guy will just fit well in some form of sligh.  If you don't off him quick, a sligh deck can easily get out of storm range, burn out golems, and race dredge with additional hate.  If only he had pro red like kor firewalker, then earthquake.dec could be a thing!

[MaximumCDawg]

Cards such as Psionic Blast, Earthquake, Ashes to Ashes, Price of Progress ... interact positevely with this new lifelink guy, right?

Any powerful cards with horrible life damage drawback that you can think of?

I think this new guy will just fit well in some form of sligh.  If you don't off him quick, a sligh deck can easily get out of storm range, burn out golems, and race dredge with additional hate.  If only he had pro red like kor firewalker, then earthquake.dec could be a thing!

She has a 2-butt, so Pyrohemia / Pestilence works.  Pay 1, deal 1 damage to opponent, gain 2 life minimum.  Not terrible.