UW Monastery Mentor Remora Gush

[CHA1N5]

I won a 15 player tournament in Kalamazoo, MI yesterday with this list:

2   Snapcaster Mage
3   Monastery Mentor
   
2   Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3   Mystic Remora
3   Gush
3   Treasure Cruise
1   Ancestral Recall
1   Time Walk
1   Brainstorm
2   Gitaxian Probe
2   Sensei's Divining Top   
   
2   Swords to Plowshares
1   Hurkyl's Recall
   
4   Force of Will
4   Mental Misstep
3   Flusterstorm
1   Misdirection
   
1   Sol Ring
1   Mana Crypt
1   Mox Sapphire
1   Mox Emerald
1   Mox Jet
1   Mox Pearl
1   Black Lotus
   
2   Island
3   Tundra
4   Flooded Strand
3   Polluted Delta
2   Cavern of Souls
1   Library of Alexandria
   
   
   SB:
3   Hurkyl's Recall
3   Engineered Explosives
1   Swords to Plowshares
1   Plains
4   Containment Priest
2   Grafdigger's Cage
1   Mindbreak Trap


Obviously, the event allowed Fate Reforged cards a week before they are officially legal.

Important Note: due to Monday's B/R announcement, there is a legitimate chance that this exact iteration of this deck may not ever be legal in Vintage.  If Treasure Cruise is restricted, the deck could easily slot in Dig Through Time, Thirst for Knowledge, Ponder, Preordain, etc. to fill two slots and still be quite effective.

Development:

This deck idea was spawned by two concurrent goals:
- Beat URg Delver consistently and
- Play with Monastery Mentor

These goals are intertwined and complimentary.

I have been working on methods to consistently beat URg Delver for several months.  At Vintage Champs I chose Oath, which I believe was a good choice at the time (and not because the archetype beat Delver in the Finals), but I hadn't tested enough to reach a mature list.  All of my early efforts, however, focused on finding techniques to counteract the card drawing provided to Delver by Gush and Treasure Cruise.  Counterspells were the primary approach, but I also trie discard, Chains of Mephistopheles (which I generally try as a catch-all solution to many things, out of affection), cheating Griselbrand into play, etc.  None of them were truly consistent at keeping Delver from drawing 3-5 cards at some critical moment in the mid-game.

After Vintage Champs, I started to take a more fundamental approach to how one punishes the low-land-count "Grow" approach.  This lead me first to Workshops, but I don't believe that archetype has any punishing tools that it's not already using.  I started to scour the card pool and my memory for things that punish playing multiple spells and I found the gem that I was looking for: Mystic Remora.

This is not new technology, naturally, but it did exactly what I wanted and my focus on it was proximate to the preview of Monastery Mentor.  Now, I had two key tools that were tactically well-positioned against Delver, but also conceptually established as powerful effects in Vintage.

Mystic Remora is just about the perfect card to have for another blue deck against a deck like Delver: it buys back the virtual card advantage that Delver gets with its low land count.  Monastery Mentor is very similar.  Just like Young Pyromancer, it rewards you for incremental plays and for being interactive with your opponent.  Unlike Young Pyromancer, however, it rewards a greater diversity of non-creature spells (ie. I get to play with artifacts) and it happens to be far superior to Young Pyromancer when the two face-off.

The third key aspect of my development, after the stage of identifying Remora and Mentor was coming to realization that I could combine these trump cards against UR Delver with simply playing a similar suite of card-draw effects, knowing that mine would average a higher power level when combined with Remora and Mentor.  This might sound like "If you can't beat them, join them", but it is critical to understand that this deck does not play the same game as Delver, despite having the cantrips/Gush/Cruise/Mentor similarities.  The lack of a powerful early threat (Delver), the increased mana cost of Mentor vs. Pyromancer and the critically different role-players (Plow, Jace, Top, Explosives, etc.) mean that this deck deploys its threats and solutions in a different pattern.




Card-specifics:

Snapcaster Mage: not much needs to be said about Snapcaster, but I would point out that this deck's Snapcasters are far more powerful than Delver's.  This deck has bigger and more consistent blowouts via Hurkl's, Plow and Flusterstorm and its Snapcasters are frequently uncounterable due to Cavern.

Monastery Mentor: already covered. Amazing, in my experience.
   
Jace, the Mind Sculptor: here primarily for his flexibility as card advantage or removal. The deck does not rely on Jace, but he is the best threat and solution in many cases and he amplifies the power of many other tactics in the deck.

Mystic Remora: already covered.

Gush,Treasure Cruise: I started with both 4/3 combinations, but I feel that 3/3 provides the most consistent results.

Gitaxian Probe
Sensei's Divining Top
Ancestral Recall/Time Walk/Brainstorm:  the restricted three require no explanation, but I'll take this opportunity to comment on the lack of Ponder and Preordain.  Ponder was competing for space against Probe and Top. Top has legitimate, critical tactical advantages, such that I knew 2 was the starting number.  Probe is something that I feel strongly is correct for this deck, but the numbers don't allow playing all of the cantrips.  When Probe was first spoiled I said that I wouldn't be surprised if we soon reached a point where multiple decks, in multiple formats, were playing 4 Probes just for value.  That did not "soon" come to be, but we're reaching a point where Probe is appearing in many diverse implementations.  In Vintage, I long believed that Probe was basically a liability due to Workshops punishing low land decks, such that you could not simply cut lands and add Probes.  That approach, however, is not what is implemented in this deck.  In this deck, Probe is basically a direct replacement for Ponder and Preordain.  My testing indicated that this list did not as quickly reach threshold for Treasure Cruise as Delver and needed a way to increase its speed at doing so.  Probe is a way to accelerate a Cruise by a turn in certain scenarios.  It's Peek effect is surprisingly relevant in matchups where I was not expecting so.  I keep them in post-sideboard against Shops, now! Peek allows for certain all-in Prowess kills that might not otherwise be worth the risk.  Also, Probe is excellent at running interference for a turn one Mystic Remora.  There are legitimate reasons to prefer Ponder and Preordain for this deck and won't be surprised to see variations with them in the Probe slot.

Regarding Top: Top functions like Ponder every turn and it has the benefit of functioning as several spells when Mentor is in play.  If you have Mentor and Top in play at the start of your turn, you should typically draw with Top during your upkeep so that it will return to your hand.  Similarly, you can use Top to add an additional spell to each other draw spell for one colorless mana.  This technique allows an effective doubling of your spell count on turns where you are building Prowess. Occasionally, you get both Tops and you can turn every colorless mana that you have into a set of Mentor triggers.

Swords to Plowshares: effective role-player against most Vintage decks. I add the sideboard copy against Shops and creature decks.

Hurkyl's Recall: a necessary nod to Shops in the main, but also a surprise win condition in conjunction with Mentor and a value play in conjunction with Top.  Do not discount the Tendrils-like effect of playing this on yourself with 2-4 Monks in play. I have finished off Shops on many occasions where the first Hurkyl's targeted them and the second was Snapped back targeting me.
   
Force of Will/Mental Misstep/Flusterstorm/Misdirection: This counter suite is the result of much iteration.  Early on, while attempting to counteract the card drawing and threat base of Delver with narrowly-targeted answers such as Spell Snare or catch-alls such as Mana Drain, I was frustrated by their clumsiness.  I rebuilt the suite from the ground-up, using only those effects that were efficient and rarely dead.  You'll note that this suite greatly features spells that can be cast for zero mana, as tapping all of your mana for Remora upkeep is not uncommon.  (although, when to do so is an art form.)  Similarly, tapping out for Mentor with the ability to cast all counters in your hand is common.  The free nature of these spells also contributes to Prowess kills in a similar fashion to Hurkyl's Recall. It's not uncommon to play 2-4 counters on your own pre-combat spells in order to alpha strike with Monks.  I believe that you need to have a legitimate reason to play four Mental Missteps in Vintage, and the interactions with Remora and Mentor are the reasons in this deck.  Misstep not only protects Remora on the stack but is also an excellent card to draw off Remora triggers.  The third Flusterstorm in this list could be one of any number of other effects, but I would recommend diligence with such a change.
   
Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Mox Sapphire, Mox Emerald, Mox Jet, Mox Pearl, Black Lotus: Monastery Mentor and Mystic Remora both have mutually beneficial relationships with artifact mana.  One of the best draws this deck has is simply land, Mox, Remora.  With this configuration, you can pay the turn two upkeep with your Mox and have at least a single Azorius mana available for Flusterstorm, Brainstorm, Plow or Top.  The value play of bouncing your own artifacts for Mentor triggers has already been addressed.  The first iteration of this mana base included Mox Ruby as well, but I found I was simply drawing too many non-blue sources.  Mana Crypt and Sol Ring are included over Ruby due to the larger colorless requirements of Remora, Mentor, Jace, Cruise and Top.  It is a testament to the mana flexibility of this deck that Remora, Cruise and Top can all be implemented with minimal mana, but all gain additional value and power with the additional colorless mana provided by Sol Ring and Mana Crypt.
   
Island, Tundra, Flooded Strand, Polluted Delta: four basics post-board means that you can go deep into a game against Shops, deploying all of your spells without issue, and avoid Wasteland interactions until you are ready.

Cavern of Souls: a key tactic against other blue decks.  Uncounterable Monastery Mentor means that you can easily position yourself to end your turn with 2-4 Monks in play, even if your opponent's hand is filled with answers.  Similarly, uncounterable Snapcaster + Flusterstorm is a trump to many configurations of counterspells.  Post-board: uncounterable Containment Priest against Oath requires specific answers (usually Abrupt Decay) which you overload with 4 Priest, 2 Cage, Misdirection and Mindbreak Trap.

Of note: this deck can play entire games without non-Cavern colored mana.  Thanks to the various artifacts, Humans and free counterspells, there are configurations that might look unplayable at first glance but are legitimately powerful.  Example: Cavern, Library, Emerald, Top, Mentor, Remora, Force.  The choice of Probe over Ponder/Preordain influences the utility of Cavern in this way as well.

Library of Alexandria: since your hand is frequently and repeatably full against other blue decks.  Also, reliably relevant against Shops and Oath.

   
   
Sideboard:
Hurkyl's Recall, Plains: Shops, which I've found to be 30-35% in game one and 75-80% post-board.

Engineered Explosives: catch-all against Shops, Oath, Creatures and whatever else you might find unexpected.  Explosives is especially noteworthy against Shops, due to the interaction with Spheres.  Landstill and Bomberman players will know this well.  Aside from Force of Will, this is one of the best effects in Magic for buying back time against Shops on the draw.

Swords to Plowshares: creatures, Shops, misc.

Containment Priest/Grafdigger's Cage: Oath and Dredge.

Mindbreak Trap: catch-all. I bring this in against far more decks that I ever anticipated.



Matchups:

I did not test against everything, so I will focus on what I prepared for in my local meta and provide some theoretical commentary on others.

URg Delver: the main deck's primary target.  Remora and Mentor are the primary paths to victory.  If you can resolve early Remora, games can still diverge into draw-go, easy pummelings or anything in between.  If your opponent has the lands to play draw-go, you are still favored due to your higher mana count. If your opponent is forced to go on the attack you are also favored.  The only time you get punished for a resolved Remora is when you don't draw the mana to upkeep it and you stick with it too long. Early Delver should be Misstepped or Plowed, as they can kill you before you find and resolve Mentor.  Pyromancer is a contextual issue: if you have Mentor online or readily available, Pyromancer can be overpowered.  Look for opportunities to trade one-for-one, as you have more card drawing than they do, but there are trap games when they get slightly ahead on tempo and your long-term advantage doesn't have enough time to materialize.

Sideboard: OUT 1 Hurkyl's.  IN 1 Plow.  Options: Mindbreak Trap is a fine card against them. If you have a read that it may be more valuable, Probe is a fine swap.


Shops: I'm comfortable oversimplifying the various iterations of the Shop matchup because this sideboard is overloaded against all of them.  Game one, you are considerably disadvantaged and should simply look for wins via multiple Forces, early Plow/Hurkyl's + Snapcaster or overpowering them via Lotus.  Turn one Jace or Mentor in the play is rare, but good enough when it happens. 

Sideboard:
Out: 4 Misstep, 3 Flusterstorm, 1 Misdirection, 1 Gush
In: 3 Hurkyl's, 3 Explosives, 1 Plow, 1 Plains, 1 Mindbreak Trap

Post-sideboard, your goal is consistent mana and access to your sideboard cards.  On the play, you can typically rest easy with land, land, Mox, Hurkyl's combined with any reasonable combination of other mana and spells.  On the draw, the constraints of your opponent necessitate a narrower mixture of Force of Will, artifact accelerants, Engineer Explosives and access to basic lands.  The challenge of game-three-on-the-draw is the reason for such a heavy component of flexible answers. Explosives can counteract a multi-sphere draw. Moxen, Plow, Force or Hurkyl's can counteract Lodestone draws. Mindbreak Trap is something I've been including in my anti-Shop sideboard plans for years. It's not a primary strategy, but it helps offset the worst possible openings they have (three threats on turn one) and it provides a consistent role-playing answer for when you manage to reach an empty board via Hurkyl's in the mid-game.

Be mindful of the threat that you Mentors provide, as well.  Lodestone Golem can occasionally be allowed to sit in play when you have Mentor, given the threat of cheap spells (Force, Gush, Plow) during your opponents turn.  With only a single Monk, in addition to the Mentor, you threaten trading a single Gush for their Golem in combat.  (Gush produces a 1/1 Monk and makes your existing Monk a 2/2, allowing you to block and kill their Golem while keeping Mentor in play.)  Also, a resolved Mentor plus 2 Hurkyl's or Hurkyl's + Snapcaster can frequently end a game in one turn.

Engineered Explosives provides numerous flexible options beyond basic survival against early Spheres.  Look for value plays with Explosives on 0 (Moxen), 2 (Spheres/Revoker/Ratchet Bomb) and 3 (Trinisphere, Metalworker, Tangle Wire, Crucible, etc.).  Be mindful of Explosives on 0 removing your Monks, 2 removing your Snapcasters and 3 removing your Mentors.  All of these plays have increased risk but are situationally correct.

Note regarding Mystic Remora: you'll note that Remora is still in post-sideboard with my plan.  That is due to the simple value that Remora has on turn 1 as well as the great value that in achieves in conjunction with Hurkyl's Recall in the mid-game.  On the play, a turn one Remora is almost certainly good for 1-2 draws on your opponent's first turn, and a few more thereafter.  In conjunction with Force of Will and/or artifact acceleration, it is tactically well-positioned.  Such a Remora can be discarded after the first turn after drawing 1-2 cards or maintained into turns 2+ depending on the combination of mana and answers you've drawn.  On the draw, turn 1 Remora is rarely correct or even possible.  However, if you can manage the game to Hurkyl's your opponent on turns 3-5, a follow-up Remora will either draw you 1-4 cards or discourage your opponent from playing, altogether; both of which are desirable.  I've had tournament games where I reached 4-5 mana for the mid-game Hurkyl's and followed up with TWO Mystic Remora.  Even with multiple Workshops and creature-based threats, this can produce an immediately insurmountable obstacle of card advantage for your opponent.


Oath: this list has a clear weakness against resolved Oath in game one, but it's not a certain loss.  A turn one Oath narrows your options to certain Time Walk alpha strike plays, usually requiring Mentor and/or Snapcaster Mage.  Also possible is Jace ultimate, if you can control the game they don't find Orchard.  It's also worth noting that Mentor is capable of incredible damage output that can overrun even Griselbrand and that Remora can heavily counteract Griselbrand activations by offering you offsetting draws for every business spell that Griselbrand draws.  I have won games against turn one Oath by simply executing my primary plan in the mid-game.  If you can resolve Monastery Mentor (aided by Caverns) and chain together a few additional spells that conclude with Remora, your opponent's resulting Griselbrand will bear serious considerations regarding how much they activate him and how many threats they attempt to deploy.  If your opponent is at 10 life, with Griselbrand in play, this is how many non-creature spells you need to play in your pre-combat main phase for various numbers of Monks:

Monastery Mentor + 1 Monk: 16 spells
Monastery Mentor + 2 Monks: 8 spells
Monastery Mentor + 3 Monks: 5 spells
Monastery Mentor + 4 Monks: 4 spells

As you can see, once you reach 3 or 4 Monks in play, your team requires only a few spells to be capable of killing an opponent with almost full health.

Similarly, if you can damage your Oath opponent with creatures down to <10 life before Oath resolves, Remora can offset Griselbrand activations such that they cannot come back with 7 cards and Griselbrand attacks will not kill your ever-growing team in time.

Sideboard:
Out: 1 Hurkyl's Recall, 2 Plow, 2 Snapcaster Mage, 2 Probe
In: 4 Containment Priest, 2 Cage, 1 MBT

Note: this sideboard plan does not include brining in Engineered Explosives, although it could.  The primary reason is that Explosives is not as efficient as Priest and Cage and that your opponent is already prepared for artifacts. 

Post-sideboard, you are the Aggro Control deck and generally have much better tools to play that role than your opponent does to fight it.  You still have the risk of turn 1 Oath, but you have 7 new answers to it.  Once you've seen the first 1-3 turns play out, you may be comfortable letting Oath resolve and sit in play.  Be mindful of Abrupt Decay on Priest or Cage.


Grixis Control: I did not test this match up because I cannot conceive of losing to it for the same reasons that UR Delver preys on Grixis.  You can still lose to broken variance, but you are naturally heavily favored.

Sideboard:
Out: Probe or Plow, depending on how creature-heavy they are
In: MBT.  Perhaps Hurkyl's, if they are a more retro list where Tinker and KeyVault are their primary threats.



Dredge: there might be a combination of 7 cards that would allow you to win game one: turn 1 Mentor combined with Time Walk, or similar.

Sideboard:
Out: 1 Hurkyl's, 2 Jace, 2 Probe, 1 Remora
In: 4 Containment Priest, 2 Cage,

Like most decks vs. Dredge, your plan is to draw your sideboard cards.  Given the six zero-mana artifact accelerants, turn one Priest is a reasonable expectation, but not necessary.  There are a lot of options with this sideboard plan regarding ancillary removal, as Plow and Explosives offer situationally relevant answers.  The exact nature of your opponent's Dredge configuration will inform the value of Plow, Explosives and Remora. 

If you're not comfortable with relying on Containment Priest, the ratio of Priest and Cage can easily be adjusted.  Be aware of the effect this will have on your Oath sideboard plan.


Gush Storm: I did not test this matchup because I feel very comfortable with it, given Mystic Remora.

Sideboard:
Out: 2 Plow, 1 Probe or Hurkyl's (depending on whether your opponent has Tinker and/or KeyVault)
In: MBT, 2 Cage



BUG: at this time, there is no consistent BUG list to specifically prepare for, but I believe Monastery Monk gives you the advantage against them, by itself.  BUG has been pushed out by the card advantage of UR Delver and I consider this list to be even more oppressive in the matchup.  Plow is better than Bolt at removing potentially larger threats such as Goyf and Ooze.  Deathrite Shaman can be disruptive to Cruise, but if they focus on doing so they will likely lose to your other advantages.

Sideboard:
Out: 1 Hurkyl's, 2 Probe
In: Plow, MBT, Explosives, to taste



Bomberman: I did not test this matchup due to the fact that no one plays it, locally.  If you have the deck in your meta, test carefully.  Remora and Mentor are still all-stars.  Your card draw is a serious threat and Remora is specifically a powerful deterrant to Trinket Mage and Salvagers.  Importantly, the full Salvagers combo still beats this main deck, assuming you can't stop the first iteration and then kill them.  Post-sideboard: Mindbreak Trap permanently stops the combo and Remora can reliably draw you into it.

Sideboard:
Out: 1 Hurkyl's, 1 Probe
In: Plow, MBT

[Stormanimagus]

I have to say, I really like this list. I think I even like it more than my UW variant with digs. I think you've found the right synergies here. Bravo! I really REALLY like the 3 EE in the SB. They are a great answer to spheres and hate bear decks. I'm curious to know why you are only running 3 mentor. Also, have you considered Path To Exile? I have found it to be really strong when you have such a great clock. It is also another shuffle effect for top and considering that you aren't running tutors that might be a welcome thing. You could path your own token to have a shuffle effect and create another token. Overall though, EXCELLENT list.

-Storm

[The Atog Lord]

Kevin, this was a fantastic writeup. Thank you for contributing this. This deck shows a lot of careful thought and innovation. I'm looking forward to trying this out soon.

[Twiedel]

A great read and a very interesting approach, thanks a lot for sharing this with us Kevin! I will try this deck out for sure!

On my first look, I've got some questions on card choices already:

- 2 Snapcsater Mage: How often do you really want to cast this on Hurkyl's? It seems that Snapcaster is not at its best in this list, and lately I find it harder and harder to find a target for Flusterstorm, which is one of your best scenarios to illustrate how useful he is. I'd love to hear more on this topic =)

- 2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor: I am currently building and testing some approaches of my own with Monastery Mentor, and I found that it is very hard to find another win condition (I don't want to be solely dependant on creatures). Jace was a consideration, but I felt it is not the spot I'd want to be in. With all those creatures running around, and the counts still increasing, the Mind Sculptor is surely not the powerhouse it was before. What is your experience with Jace in this Meta right now? Is it really sticking in game or just a glorified Brainstorm plus Fog?

- 2 (3) Swords to Plowshares: I have been playing red for many many months now, and could not imagine leaving home without 4 Lightning Bolt and 4 Ingot Chewer to fight a certain Mr. Lodestone. I ALWAYS want that 1 mana removal spell for this threat turn 1, and now you are running only 3 (after sideboard) creature removals. Of course, Dark Confidant is not played right now, and everything else you might handle with Monastery Mentor, but the Workshop creatures are a big concern... my first idea would have been to even go to 4 Swords + 1 Path, but it seems you've made your peace with only 3 spot removals. No regrets so far?

- your Counterspells: Basically, I think what you assembled here are the most broken counterspells ever printed, and that is really the way to go in my opinion as well. Just two tiny questions here: Why the Misdirection? Using it as a theoretical 5th Force of Will in the Remora route (i.e. drawing a bunch of cards when the opponent is forcing through)? What is its main prupose here? Second questions is the abundance of Flusterstorms: As mentioned earlier, I feel they are not finding too much targets lately, and I shifted over to Spell Pierce partially. It is missteppable but also answers Walkers, Chalice/Spheres and Oath, which has been very important in the Delver decks. I wonder if that doesn't also apply here.

- Engineered Explosives: Honestly, the last time I played this card was 2012, and it was the only card in my sideboard that was constantly doing ~nothing~ at all. Granted, times have changed since then, and blowing up tokens is a lot more important today than back then - but as this is your only way to kill permanants on the board, it seems especially soft against workshops. You cannot beat a decent draw with Engineered Explosvies, and especially a chalice on 2 will wreck your Hurkyl's plan completely. There's the small out of finding that Sol Ring or Mana Crypt to pay the colorless mana needed for an Explosives 0, but this seems overall very weak.

All in all, a very decent deck, and again thanks for the great read and a lot of new thoughts about this new archetype. I hope we can get some conversation going about this, as I feel we might be on our way to a new major player in Vintage here!

[dangerlinto]

I like what this list does, but I'm afraid it's not at all where I'd go with Mentor.

Much like Tweidel, I'm very vary of your Snapcasters.  You nearly completely glossed over their inclusion as being automatic, but snapcaster's ability to act a as a flashback utility must sure be reduced by your inclusion of Mystic Remora.  You took great pains to include a counter suite which would function under remora, but it seems to me you negate snapcaster's emergency utility if you must constantly tap down mana during your own upkeep. 

Secondly, Remora.  I would love a quick mention on how games vs delver or pyromancer played out.  I can see remora being just fantastic for stabilizing vs pyromancer but only if you have the mana to keep it active and then use the cards you've drawn. 

In the end, I'm pretty sure whatever build I end up working with, and from looking at this build, It will probably end up making room for Trinket Mage, who allows for a much great range of card advantage and allows you to hit your tops, EE or just mana to feed this mana-hungry deck.

[CHA1N5]

I'm curious to know why you are only running 3 mentor. Also, have you considered Path To Exile? I have found it to be really strong when you have such a great clock. It is also another shuffle effect for top and considering that you aren't running tutors that might be a welcome thing. You could path your own token to have a shuffle effect and create another token. Overall though, EXCELLENT list.

3 vs. 4 Mentors: I wanted to reduce the games where I drew 2 in my opening hand.  The deck has enough draw and manipulation that I'd much prefer to control the early game, draw cards and play my first Mentor on turn 3 or 4.  Frequently, it takes much longer than that, but it's not a problem because of the effect that Remora and Top have on longer games.  This list plays closer to Combo Control than to Aggro Control, as compared to something like Delver, which is able to chip away and finish you with Bolts.  I could certainly see a list that shifts more aggressively and plays four Mentors, though.

Path: I never considered it.  If I wanted the removal effect more, I would play more Plows.  The shuffle is rarely an issue given the card draw and the fetchlands.  It is very rare, in my experience, that I am forced to wait through multiple Top or Jace activations with cards I do not want.

- 2 Snapcsater Mage: How often do you really want to cast this on Hurkyl's? It seems that Snapcaster is not at its best in this list, and lately I find it harder and harder to find a target for Flusterstorm, which is one of your best scenarios to illustrate how useful he is. I'd love to hear more on this topic =)

Delver: all of your targets are great, save Hurkyl's.  If you're under Delver pressure, early, Plow is a go-to answer.  If you're in the midgame and wrestling for card advantage battles, Flusterstorm is ideal.  If you've resolved Mentor, they are generally on a Bolt-only plan, which makes Misstep and Flusterstorm ideal.  Snapcaster does everything, here.

Shops: Hurkyl's and Plow are so key that resolving one gives you the access to resolve another for 2 more mana in the following turns.  Also, I've used Snapcaster as removal for attacking Revokers many times.

Grixis, Landstill, Bomberman: Misstep and Flusterstorm are fully live and additional copies are useful.

Oath: I board them out, since they are Oath and I'm bringing in Cage.

I think there are decks that abuse Snapcaster more than this deck, but they are still very useful, here.  The presence of Cavern also amplifies their utility in combination with Mentor, Remora and Flusterstorm.  Also, the Combo Control path that this deck has uses double Time Walk as often as possible.

Oh, and if you haven't Snapcastered a Treasure Cruise, you haven't lived.

- 2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor: I am currently building and testing some approaches of my own with Monastery Mentor, and I found that it is very hard to find another win condition (I don't want to be solely dependant on creatures). Jace was a consideration, but I felt it is not the spot I'd want to be in. With all those creatures running around, and the counts still increasing, the Mind Sculptor is surely not the powerhouse it was before. What is your experience with Jace in this Meta right now? Is it really sticking in game or just a glorified Brainstorm plus Fog?

You've mentioned the key: metagame.  The meta that I live in is primarily those decks that I have mentioned.  Jace was previously not good against Delver because of the cheap, lethal Delvers, Pyromancer going wide and omnipresent Bolts.  This list addresses all of those weaknesses and makes Jace better than he can be in something like Grixis.  He is still a secondary plan, however.  As I said: he plays the role of card draw and/or removal.  That said: post sideboard, he does shift to a powerful, primary tool against Workshops, given my removal package and Remora.  Remora + Jace + Hurkyl's is obviously good, but they are even better than you think due to the pressure they place on the Shop player to NOT redeploy non-creature effects.

If your meta is filled with Delver, try this deck and love it.   If your meta is filled with BUG, this deck is probably still good, but isn't legal in 2012

- 2 (3) Swords to Plowshares: I have been playing red for many many months now, and could not imagine leaving home without 4 Lightning Bolt and 4 Ingot Chewer to fight a certain Mr. Lodestone. I ALWAYS want that 1 mana removal spell for this threat turn 1, and now you are running only 3 (after sideboard) creature removals. Of course, Dark Confidant is not played right now, and everything else you might handle with Monastery Mentor, but the Workshop creatures are a big concern... my first idea would have been to even go to 4 Swords + 1 Path, but it seems you've made your peace with only 3 spot removals. No regrets so far?

You're right about having fewer direct answers to Lodestone.  Mentors, Hurkyl's and Explosives all help shore up this weakness.  Grixis can't play Hurkyl's as effectively as this deck because your best follow-ups are single cards that can be answered or overloaded: counter, Bolt, Jace, Tinker, etc.  This deck can play Hurkyl's, play a Mentor, play a Remora (make a Monk) and pass with a Gush ready to respond to the first Sphere (as needed).  Explosives contribute to answering Lodestone by clearing away Spheres on turn 2-4.  Yes, that means that this deck will lose some games that involve multiple Lodestones, but my goal is not to be 100% vs. Shops

I don't believe this weakness is as pronounced as comparing 8 vs. 3 1-mana spells makes it sound, but it's something that can certainly be addressed with an additional Plow in the board.

- your Counterspells: Basically, I think what you assembled here are the most broken counterspells ever printed, and that is really the way to go in my opinion as well. Just two tiny questions here: Why the Misdirection? Using it as a theoretical 5th Force of Will in the Remora route (i.e. drawing a bunch of cards when the opponent is forcing through)? What is its main prupose here? Second questions is the abundance of Flusterstorms: As mentioned earlier, I feel they are not finding too much targets lately, and I shifted over to Spell Pierce partially. It is missteppable but also answers Walkers, Chalice/Spheres and Oath, which has been very important in the Delver decks. I wonder if that doesn't also apply here.

I think you've mostly identified the answers already.  See my comments on Snapcaster.

Misdirection does function as Force 5, but moreso due to Remora.  It's a key tactic to misdirect Bolt on your Mentor against Delver, since that is basically their only out.  Similar for Abrupt Decay in the Oath (and BUG) matchup.

- Engineered Explosives: Honestly, the last time I played this card was 2012, and it was the only card in my sideboard that was constantly doing ~nothing~ at all. Granted, times have changed since then, and blowing up tokens is a lot more important today than back then - but as this is your only way to kill permanants on the board, it seems especially soft against workshops. You cannot beat a decent draw with Engineered Explosvies, and especially a chalice on 2 will wreck your Hurkyl's plan completely. There's the small out of finding that Sol Ring or Mana Crypt to pay the colorless mana needed for an Explosives 0, but this seems overall very weak.

It sounds like you simply have to test this configuration to appreciate how amazing Explosives combined with four (FOUR) (and two Snapcasters) Hurkyl's is.  Explosives is a role-player.  It's not designed to clear their board.  It is there to specifically get you out of the double-Sphere draws, on the draw.

Shops: Ancient Tomb, Sphere of Resistance.
Mentor: Land, Mox
Shops: Shop, Lodestone
Mentor: Land, Explosives on 2
Shops: Wasteland (no targets, frequently), Forgemaster, attack for 5

At this stage in the game, you have options, assuming you have a third land:
- explode the Sphere and Plow either of their creatures
- Hurkyl's now, with Explosives ready to deter the Sphere from being replayed
- explode the Sphere and wait to Force their next play

It might sound like I've crafted a weak draw for Shops or something, but this is a median example of the kind of options that Explosives gives you.  I could give other examples where they lead on Thorn with a turn 2 Sphere of Resistance and get blown out by Explosives.  Again, it's important to point out that Explosives is simply playing a role, here.  It's the sum of the effect when added to all of the other cards that allow this deck to execute its primary plan against Shops.

Much like Tweidel, I'm very vary of your Snapcasters.  You nearly completely glossed over their inclusion as being automatic, but snapcaster's ability to act a as a flashback utility must sure be reduced by your inclusion of Mystic Remora.  You took great pains to include a counter suite which would function under remora, but it seems to me you negate snapcaster's emergency utility if you must constantly tap down mana during your own upkeep. 

I'm glad you mentioned this, because I think I didn't give a full impression of how Remora plays in this deck.  The truth is: you rarely keep it around for 4+ turns.  I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I'm playing all my games behind a wall of tapped lands   Remora is a means to an end.  It either rewards you with cards for your opponents' common early game plays (Moxen, Preordain, etc.) or it slows their development such that they can't possibly fight all of your Mentor and card drawing in the mid-game.  Either way, unless my opponent is a dedicated combo deck such as Belcher or Gush Storm, I will typically abandon Remora once I have another, better use for my mana. 

Also, there are only two Snapcasters.  If I play an early Remora and draw Snapcaster, that immediately influences my choices with regard to the utility of keeping Snapcaster in my hand.  If I have a spell such as Misstep or Flusterstorm to flashback, it typically means that I played Remora on 1 and then played that spell on turns 1-3.  Turn 3-4 are key junctures in the deck's mana curve and plan where abandoning Remora for Mentor or Snapcaster protection is right on plan.

Also, don't forget that Remora is not like Stasis: you don't get punished with inaction the turn you decide to abandon it.  It's not uncommon to stretch a turn 1 Remora to turn 3-4 and then untap and play a second one, with 2-4 other mana sources available.  Such a secondary Remora can be maintained far longer and leaves this deck with all the mana flexibility it needs.

Secondly, Remora.  I would love a quick mention on how games vs delver or pyromancer played out.  I can see remora being just fantastic for stabilizing vs pyromancer but only if you have the mana to keep it active and then use the cards you've drawn. 

The first two turns usually define how a game against Delver is going to shape up.  If they have Delver on turn 1, you fight over it.  A semi-random result based on who has the more Missteps, frequently, but all of this deck's counters come to bear.  If you're on the play, choosing between Remora and leaving up Fluster + Misstep is sometimes a choice, but having all three cards is obviously rare.  Generally both decks really want to resolve their single-blue permanents.

After turn one, there is another gambit as both decks position themselves along the Pyromancer/Mentor spectrum.  You obviously only have four Forces with which to counter a Pyromancer, so that's a specific option, but nearly every time you'd rather protect your own Mentor.  If you've fallen behind on the board and don't have access to Mentor, you have Plow and Snapcaster to fight their creatures, but it's certainly possible to be overrun.  If you're behind on board, though, it's usually because you have a draw-heavy hand and that means you stand a good chance of using turns 3-4 to build up answers.  It's possible to soak up damage and reassert yourself with Gush/Cruise into Mentor on turns 4/5.  It's scenarios such as this that caused me to point out the importance of keeping the early Delver off the board.  Your Mentor is better, by itself, than a Delver and a Pyromancer; but you can still die if you're <10 and they have Bolt(s).  This, then, goes back to the value of Misdirection.  I value it highly in my hand in this matchup and frequently attempt to save if for their Bolts (or their Ancestral, of course).

In the end, I'm pretty sure whatever build I end up working with, and from looking at this build, It will probably end up making room for Trinket Mage, who allows for a much great range of card advantage and allows you to hit your tops, EE or just mana to feed this mana-hungry deck.

Yes, Trinket Mage plays very well with the Top/Explosives notion, which is not news.  I avoided them because I wanted to keep my mana base as light as possible to shore up virtual card advantage against Delver.  I believe that adding another 2-4 3-mana spells to the deck will necessitate adding at least one more mana source.  Still, I'd very much like to see such an iteration.

[CHA1N5]

Important Note:

Vintage:

Treasure Cruise is restricted.

From: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/banned-and-restricted-announcement-2015-01-19

[Guli]

Man you just wrote a very good primer. Your word choices were excellent, I enjoyed reading this a lot.

I am now going to try Remora as well to fight Delver in Legacy in my Vial builds. Vial gives me the ability to bring in threats while I keep up the remora active. Thanks for inspiring me.

[WhiteLotus]

Man you just wrote a very good primer. Your word choices were excellent, I enjoyed reading this a lot.

I am now going to try Remora as well to fight Delver in Legacy in my Vial builds. Vial gives me the ability to bring in threats while I keep up the remora active. Thanks for inspiring NE.

Important Note:

Vintage:

Treasure Cruise is restricted.

From: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/banned-and-restricted-announcement-2015-01-19

excellent primer, I Had come to the same conclusions working on my side, and i wasn't the only one trying to crack the UW shell with mentor. I identified remora or defense grid as key tactics that naturally punish the gush preordain manabases, but before.mentor there was no deck that could really leverage the advantage or remora while taking care of remora's natural weakness to creatures. Where my approach was different from yours was that gush is not needed and sets you back on tempo way too much, I opted for mana drain and thirst instead. I don't like your.counter package at all it seems extremely loose to workshops, mana drain is a key component of combo control disruption packages in vintage imo. Also I run 14 counters in my list to make my remora triggers that much more consistent. I was also running 4 mentors and 0 snappy's. I tried and love repeal in the deck, it is extremely versatile and works well with remora, sensei and mentor.

I don't believe the restriction of cruise will have that big of an impact on the list though, since dig is very good here too contrary to delver. I was already testing out 2 Digs + 1 cruise vs 3 cruises prior to the announcement and it was running fine.

Ps: Sorry if my post looks messy, it was posted from my phone.

[serracollector]

Was skullclamp ever considered in a build like this? If you decide to run trinket mage or stoneforge its obv easy to get. It triggers Mentor itself making a two mana draw two off the bat. After that all you spells essentially gain pay one more mana draw two. Moxen mana crypt sol ring lotus and lotus petal now read play this tap this draw two. Seems rather broken to me. If I get around to making a list i think it will def include some number of trinket mages and skullclamp. Seems to good not to imo.

[marcb]

This is a great thread about how to build a mentor deck in the current meta. Much of what has been mentioned in this regard, I was thinking about before the original post. One thing that I hadn't considered that might warrant further discussion in a separate thread is  the SB plan against shops. The original post suggests (clearly and concisely) a plan of Hurkyl's backed by engineered explosives (EE) as an antiShop. I have often debated what would be the right card to follow hurkyl's in a slower control deck that doesn't usually win outright. I'd be curious what people think of this plan (which avoids a splash color like red) relative to more traditional SB options such as adding red for ingot chewer and possibly viashino heretic.

Marc
PS - I realize in this specific deck Hurkyl's performs an additional function related to generating massive board presence with mentor, and so is not a completely unrelated topic. I just think it is a worthwhile discussion for control decks not interested in mentor too. For example, could one play U/B control instead of Grixis with a similar SB plan against shops and be as competitive in that matchup?

[oshkoshhaitsyosh]

I did extensive testing of UW mentor, and I personally came to the conclusion that...as much as I love 2 color decks and I love Engineered Explosives and Hurkyks, it just wasn't as solid enough as compared to splashing red. I still use white as my primary color, but I ran 2 volc and ran 2 dack main deck and 2 chewer sb. This was in addition to some white shop hate as well. But strict UW even with a bunch or Hurkyls and Explosives just wasn't cutting it for me. And going into testing I really thought UW could work and I wouldn't need red. I was proved otherwise...

[boggyb]

I did extensive testing of UW mentor, and I personally came to the conclusion that...as much as I love 2 color decks and I love Engineered Explosives and Hurkyks, it just wasn't as solid enough as compared to splashing red. I still use white as my primary color, but I ran 2 volc and ran 2 dack main deck and 2 chewer sb. This was in addition to some white shop hate as well. But strict UW even with a bunch or Hurkyls and Explosives just wasn't cutting it for me. And going into testing I really thought UW could work and I wouldn't need red. I was proved otherwise...

I have had the same experience. Mentor is a real card, though. A welcome addition, well-balanced, well-designed, powerful, and interesting.

[fsecco]

The deck has no answer to a resolved Moat. I know nobody plays Moat today, but it was the first card that caught my eyes after Monastery Mentor was spoiled. You need to have at least 1 bounce spell or maybe Disenchants, since they deal with shops too.

[dangerlinto]

The deck has no answer to a resolved Moat. I know nobody plays Moat today, but it was the first card that caught my eyes after Monastery Mentor was spoiled. You need to have at least 1 bounce spell or maybe Disenchants, since they deal with shops too.

Not true.  You could set EE at 4 with moxen.

[JACO]

The deck has no answer to a resolved Moat. I know nobody plays Moat today, but it was the first card that caught my eyes after Monastery Mentor was spoiled. You need to have at least 1 bounce spell or maybe Disenchants, since they deal with shops too.

Aside from the fact that no one plays Moat in Vintage, you could easily slot in a Repeal or two in this deck. It combos quite nicely with Mystic Remora and helps advance the game to the middle stage, which is what you really want.

[CHA1N5]

Also: Jace

[serracollector]

Still really suprised im the only one whose mentioned skullclamp. No one else think this is good?

[fsecco]

Skullclamp is nice, I played with it a lot in Young Pyromancer decks that were more controlish. For me the problem is Misstep and artifact hate, as always. It also gets shut down by Null Rod or Revoker, and stolen by Dack. I don't know, maybe this just isn't the meta for it. But yes, it's very powerful and can make you chain spells in order to kill with something like 1 Mentor and 1-2 tokens only (although that's quite easy to do without Skullclamp's help)

[thecrav]

I've played Skullclamp in my PyroGreed deck for about a year now. I don't think I like it in a Monastery Mentor deck, especially if that deck doesn't have Pyromancer.

As fsecco pointed out, Mental Misstep is a big concern. I think I've only actually resolved Skullclamp against a control deck once. Sure, I could keep my own countermagic back, but now I'm talking about an x-for-1 just to resolve it. I could play a second or third copy but how good is that?

I don't think Null Rod or Revoker are really big worries. Aside from the decks playing them game 1, I would think they'd likely come out for something more specifically useful. Additionally, if you're only playing one or two Skull Clamps, it's quite possible that you won't show them one in the first game, further increasing the likelihood that they take out their artifact hate.

Aside from these, my real concern with Skullclamp is this:

Perhaps I've been playing it incorrectly, but the most common use of Skullclamp for me has been after I've played everything I can, I'll get rid of one or two tokens to draw just a little bit deeper and find a game-ender. This is less of an option when the tokens have prowess. Mid-turn (ie, you've already been casting spells), you can only Skullclamp-kill the most recently created token. This drastically reduces the usability of Skullclamp as a draw engine as it requires you to play a spell between each activation.

While yes, you can Skullclamp first and play spells later, I think this is a lower value option. You're paying 1 mana and sacrificing multiple points of damage to draw two cards.

One positive with Skullclamp is that it triggers the token creation. If you've got a Mentor on board, Skullclamp reads  : Put Skullclamp into play and draw 2 cards.

[serracollector]

In regards to skullclamp not only does it trigger a token itself as stated but each mox you play now reads tap draw two. This can easily turn repeals and hurkylls into huge ca

[Xantis]

I played this list (with a couple of minor adjustments) to an undefeated record in a 20 man tournament this weekend. 

I loved how it works.  Mentor can kill out of nowhere.  I won quite a few games from an empty board by chaining Mentor, moxes/free spells, into Time Walk and attacking for 20+ the following turn with 3-4 tokens. 

I had to throw the deck together rather hastily, but I think these were the changes that I made:

-2 Treasure Cruise (deck legality is important!)
-1 Mental Misstep (I couldn't find my 4th)
+1 Dig Through Time (I want a 2nd now!)
+1 Ponder (felt like I needed another cheap draw spell to replace Treasure Cruise)
+1 Time Vault
+1 Voltaic Key (got cold feet and wanted another win-con)
-1 Misdirection (making room for vault/key)

When I run this again, I'm going to put in a 2nd Dig through Time and the 4th Mental Misstep for sure.  I'll probably be removing Vault/Key, as it wasn't really needed.  It was a great diversion tactic though.

[WhiteLotus]

I played this list (with a couple of minor adjustments) to an undefeated record in a 20 man tournament this weekend. 

I loved how it works.  Mentor can kill out of nowhere.  I won quite a few games from an empty board by chaining Mentor, moxes/free spells, into Time Walk and attacking for 20+ the following turn with 3-4 tokens. 

I had to throw the deck together rather hastily, but I think these were the changes that I made:

-2 Treasure Cruise (deck legality is important!)
-1 Mental Misstep (I couldn't find my 4th)
+1 Dig Through Time (I want a 2nd now!)
+1 Ponder (felt like I needed another cheap draw spell to replace Treasure Cruise)
+1 Time Vault
+1 Voltaic Key (got cold feet and wanted another win-con)
-1 Misdirection (making room for vault/key)

When I run this again, I'm going to put in a 2nd Dig through Time and the 4th Mental Misstep for sure.  I'll probably be removing Vault/Key, as it wasn't really needed.  It was a great diversion tactic though.

1- key vault feat a deck without tinker and black tutors seems pretty ambitious, you can always add utility creatures like trinket mage or value houses like jace/Magus of the future if you want more threats.
 
2- 2nd dig through time should be there.

3- taking 2 counters out is not a good idea at all, the deck is a control deck more than a mentor deck and especially with remora you want to make sure your deck contains a good proportion of counters so you draw them off remora triggers.

my 2 cents

[Chubby Rain]

I played this list (with a couple of minor adjustments) to an undefeated record in a 20 man tournament this weekend. 

I loved how it works.  Mentor can kill out of nowhere.  I won quite a few games from an empty board by chaining Mentor, moxes/free spells, into Time Walk and attacking for 20+ the following turn with 3-4 tokens. 

I had to throw the deck together rather hastily, but I think these were the changes that I made:

-2 Treasure Cruise (deck legality is important!)
-1 Mental Misstep (I couldn't find my 4th)
+1 Dig Through Time (I want a 2nd now!)
+1 Ponder (felt like I needed another cheap draw spell to replace Treasure Cruise)
+1 Time Vault
+1 Voltaic Key (got cold feet and wanted another win-con)
-1 Misdirection (making room for vault/key)

When I run this again, I'm going to put in a 2nd Dig through Time and the 4th Mental Misstep for sure.  I'll probably be removing Vault/Key, as it wasn't really needed.  It was a great diversion tactic though.

Congrats on your success. Did you run 3 Monastery Mentors or 4? If you ran 3, what are your opinions on a 4th or vice versa.

[Xantis]

snipped

Congrats on your success. Did you run 3 Monastery Mentors or 4? If you ran 3, what are your opinions on a 4th or vice versa.

I ran 3 Mentors.  I wouldn't want a 4th.  I treated it as a turn 3+ play that would win the game the next turn.  I did play him early when the mana allowed (multiple moxen, sol ring, etc.).  I always wanted to be able to cast 2+ spells after it resolved.

I could see going to 4 if your meta is full of Lightning Bolt decks.  Also, if you aren't running a tertiary win-condition (my key-vault).  I just feel like I saw enough cards to do everything I wanted to in a timely manner.  There were a few games where I struggled to find the Mentor, but thanks to the heavy control elements, I was never in a precarious position.  Also, I really felt like the longer games favored my deck.  Dig through Time is so amazing in a long game.

However, my meta included zero shop decks.  That definitely influences my opinions. 

[Islandswamp]

I think I faced this deck on MTGO. At least it was very similar. It seemed really good at the time.

[boggyb]

Went 4-1 and then split the top 4 at TDG last Saturday with UWR Mentor Remora. There were around 30 people there. I beat shops three times, BUG tempo-control once, UWR Dig/Mentor once, and lost to Delver. This is honestly my favorite magic deck of all time. I think it's super, super good and love playing it.

My goal was to perfect the synergy between Remora and Mentor. I tried every variation I could think of with those two cards and arrived at this, which I think is pretty much solved:

3 Monastery Mentor
2 Snapcaster Mage

3 Mystic Remora
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Gush
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Preordain
1 Merchant Scroll
2 Dig Through Time
1 Ponder
1 Time Walk

4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
2 Flusterstorm
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Lightning Bolt
2 Swords to Plowshares

1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
2 Island

SB: 1 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 3 Ingot Chewer
SB: 1 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 1 Wear // Tear
SB: 1 Mountain
SB: 3 Containment Priest
SB: 3 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Pyroblast

The only cards I might play around with at this point are the 1 Preordain in the main and the 1 Swords in the sideboard. The Swords could be another Lightning Bolt, which can be slightly better. The 1 Preordain is the only 'necessary evil' card in there -- it's the 24th mana source 60% of the time, and an inefficient card filter the other 40% of the time. I'm never totally happy with it but the deck clunked out slightly too often without it for my liking and I don't really think there's another option.


Motivations: some context

To take a step back, my overall goal here was to figure out Mentor and maximize him. I found three powerful natural companions to him in preliminary testing, in Mystic Remora, Dig Through Time, and Mana Drain. The Dig synergy was explored already, proven, and more or less solved, I think (by Brian Kelly and Matt Murray, among others); the Mystic Remora synergy was tinkered with but not quite solved (by Kevin Cron and Bob Maher and others in this thread); and the Mana Drain synergy has been largely untouched (I'm working on that now, actually). Here I think I've made a good step towards figuring out the optimal Remora + Mentor deck.

The idea is that you just want a sheer volume of efficient, synergistic cards, and to trade one-for-one and two-for-one as much as possible as you out-draw your opponent and control the game to a very stable state. Once the game is completely stable, you land a Mentor and win very quickly after that, through cantrip, top, and counterspell synergies that no deck can effectively answer when behind. You almost never want to cast a Mentor without perfect protection, as he's not worth the investment if you're only going to squeeze one or two tokens out of him. The only exception to this is if you're against shops, or if you have like a turn 1 or 2 Mentor + Top, or something similarly quick and powerful (usually enabled by Lotus).

This differs quite a bit from the Dig variant, which has lower low-end power (with Probes and Preordains) and higher high-end power (with Dacks and Jace) and plays out (in my experience) with higher variance in shops and creature matchups but lower variance in blue matchups. I think they're about equally good, though -- I just prefer Remora as a personal preference. (For example I played Matt Murray on a Dig-oriented version with Jace and Dack; the games were very close and came down to topdecks on both our parts, basically. This was typical of my experience with the matchup.)


Card choices

Snapcaster + Bolt/Plow
I find this to be the best, most reliable way to handle shops and creature matchups. Snap is also a simply delicious secret sauce against other blue decks, turning your best cards into game-enders. And the dissynergy between Snap and Dig is negligible, I've found. Basically, if you're in a position where you're having a hard time choosing between snapping back an Ancestral or casting a Dig, you're probably just winning.

No Crypt, No Caverns, No Library
• You almost never win before turn 5 or 6, so Crypt is almost never a good first turn play. But then why are you including Crypt if not to play it on turn 1?
• Cavern is cute but not worth the dent in your mana when Gush is in your deck. You just don't cast Mentor when you have significant doubts about his longevity so the card is usually strictly worse than an Island.
• Library was maybe the hardest cut of all but I think it's correct. I found the deck only ever lost games that I felt it could win at the deckbuilding level when it didn't draw its mana. Also, you almost always want to tap out every turn; I found in testing with Library that it was often correct to use it for mana instead of cards, given the strength of the deck's draw power. So while cutting Library loses you the "oops I win" factor against blue control decks (where you're favored anyway), the second Island is well worth the increased consistency.

Merchant Scroll, Mystical Tutor
I was very happy with around 56 of the cards for the longest time before coming to these two; they've turned out to be two of the best cards in the deck. Merchant Scroll is basically another Ancestral/Dig/Gush that can double as a Force or Fluster when you're feeling confident, and Mystical is usually a blow-out wincon that combos with Fluster, Ancestral, Time Walk, Snapcaster, and/or Dig to create hugely powerful game states that push you way ahead. Mystical even has significant utility against shops, by gaining you access to Swords or Hurkyl's. I love these two cards here.

Mystic Remora
Kevin's notes are well taken and I won't repeat them here -- but just wanted to confirm that this is a pretty decent card against shops, especially on the play. Around half or more of their hands will be forced to give you 2-4 cards off a Remora on the play, which is usually game-breaking. That, or they'll be forced to give you 3-4 turns to build out your mana, which is oftentimes even better.

Red cards
Definitely worth the splash. Chewer is very simply the best thing you can be doing against shops, and Pyroblast is approximately the best anti-blue sideboard card available and a welcome upgrade over Hurkyl's/Swords/Bolt.

One note: the one thing I really didn't explore much but which I think has potential is a black splash for Thoughtseize and/or Cabal Therapy. I tried one variant with Bobs and such but it didn't really work and I abandoned it early on. However I've been using Therapy/Probe/Mentor in Legacy to great effect and it might be worth exploring in Vintage. I think the tax on the mana is probably not worth it, generally speaking, but I would love to see if anyone could get it to work.


Let me know if you have any questions on deckbuilding or anything else. Thanks!

[brianpk80]

Boggy, that was a great post.  Even if you ultimately don't run it, I would recommend for exploratory purposes testing a Narset Transcendant.  The card has been shining so much in practice.  My primary Shops testing partner now ranks the threats in decreasing order as Dack, Narset, Jace.  As outstanding as she's been in my Dack list, I think your shell supports her even better, with multiple Tops and Remoras running interference.  There's a learning curve with every planeswalker and this one is an intriguing challenge that has been paying off.  The strength for me has been using +1 on arrival, not caring whether it "bricks," and then spamming -2's on Gush, Scroll, Dig Through Time, Fire//Ice, and Repeal (bounce your hate bear and then it Rebounds at 0, sparing me from death to Mana Crypt, etc.).  Attacking her with creatures (an area of exposure for Remora) is a daunting proposition giving her great longevity that makes all the difference in this creature driven world. 

I look forward to seeing your Mana Drain build.

-B

[Samoht]

Really wish we had a real game three. The first two were really close. Was a great match either way and I was glad that you went on to take it down.

[Islandswamp]

I love this list, and I'm making it on magic online, as soon as possible. I actually lost pretty hard to a list like this last daily event.

I know that the list seemed really good when I faced it. I've never had my opponent resolve a Mystic Remora and been happy about it.

Thanks for sharing the list, I heard you talk about Mentor on your podcast, and I've been excited to try it out ever since. I think that Vintage is the format that Mentor is most powerful in, without a doubt.