[DTK] Myth Realized

[MaximumCDawg]

Well, I guess it's official: Qurion Dryad is dead and gone.



This is the kind of card you would print in an Enchantment-matters block, but of course they would never make one of those, so we got it in Dragons.  Seems like a very powerful card.  People splashing into red means they're relying on artifact removal and burn for creatures, and that means this guy can be potentially unbeatable.  Don't animate him until he's out of bolt range.  Naturally Elemental Blast proof.  Dodges sorcery speed removal (meh).  Costs so freak'n little!  So good.

All of that said, horizontal growth is probably STILL better that vertical if you're looking to cache your storm count over a few turns.  But, at 1 mana, I could see this finding a home somewhere. 

[Protoaddict]

hmmm.

I want to say in a format with 4 Serra sanctums legal, 4 Leyline of sanctity legal, and a bunch of good enchantment creatures with hate effects this could be a good finisher, but I am not sure it would be better that heliod or Monastery Mentor at this point.

In what circumstance and what deck would you be playing that would want this more than Mentor, considering the on switch is exactly the same.

[benk499]

> In what circumstance and what deck would you be playing that would want this more than Mentor, considering the on switch is exactly the same.

I agree, this is tough.  The only thing I can think of is that it could come down earlier than Mentor so some of your early Preordain, Moxen, Gitaxian Probe and the like will trigger it.  Also the 1 mana CC is a little easier to get into play vs Workshops. 

These seem more like fringe benefits and corner cases though.  Mentor is just much more powerful when it hits the board.  It could be played alongside it though too. 

edit: The only other minor thing I can think of is that this would be playable in combination with Balance where the Mentor has much less synergy.  You can use the Balance as a Wrath and then come through with your beater. 

[tito del monte]

In what circumstance and what deck would you be playing that would want this more than Mentor, considering the on switch is exactly the same.

I think we might edging towards a enchantment- or creature-based "big" White Trash, that uses Serra Sanctum or even Nykthos to power out stuff Elesh Norn, Iona, Lin-valla - some of those bigger white hoser effects that can be effective in a given meta. Certainly, a deck like that might not generate many Monk tokens, but would get value out of adding a few lore counters to this guy and essentially having him tap for mana (via Sanctum/Nykthos).

Another interesting card - but damn it, what is their obsession with everything to be a bloody creature, even when it's an enchantment?

Alas poor Quirion Dryad, I knew him Horatio...

[fsecco]

Hum... yeah this works well with Balance, if fits in a Delver shell because of the low mana requirements and can go infinite in Bomberman. It's not irrelevant, but also not fast and furious as Mentor. I don't know. I wouldn't dismiss it.

It also grows fast. Can easily be a 6/6, 7/7 the turn after it comes into play. And, since it can come into play Turn 1, in slow games you could do stuff: land, this, Mox, Top (2 counters). Second turn play land and 1 cantrip, 1 counter (4 counters). Third turn, maybe another mox, a Top activation, a counter, go to 7 counters already. I mean, it get's ugly pretty fast.

[xouman]

mentor is not safe from bolt, sudden shock, dismember, jace, metamorph/duplicant, triggers oath, can be stolen with sower of temptation...

this card seems nuts. mentor is better overall imho, but mentor loses the +1/+1 every turn while this enchantment does not. At middle game, if you are not doing anything with your mana this grows. I don't understan why this costs just  , but welcome. I'm going to get 4 probably.

[Random Noob]

My first thought was; couldn't this just be the white Delver for UW Mentor lists?

[diopter]

Land, Mox, Top, this is 4 cards. Then you have another land, cantrip and counter? And then a second Mox?

I don't know what kind of deck you're playing but this sequence isn't the median for the kind of deck that plays enough Moxen to draw multiples consistently. You're thinking of the action-packed Delver shells that wouldn't touch Top with a ten foot pole.

I like this card a lot but I am realistic about its strengths, which are largely this: its appealing spot on the curve (esp. relative to Mentor or alongside Mentor) and ability to dodge early Bolt. Weakness: blocked all day by token armies.

[gkraigher]

i think this card is really good turn 1, but really bad late in the game. 

In many ways, that makes it similar to aether vial.

I don't think this card is playable because it gets much worse as the game goes on. 

[MaximumCDawg]

Weakness: blocked all day by token armies.

This is probably the critical thing, and it's why horizontal growth is better than vertical growth.

That said, this guy comes down early, grows faster than Goyf, is currently harder to remove, and if you do get him late game, you can grow him yourself by pumping excess mana into it.  I'm not sure whether it has a home in any deck that exists right now, but it sure seems like it has a Vintage-level power level.  Gonna do some curb stomping in Modern fo' sho.

[diopter]

Oh, I like this card for Vintage, CDawg.

One non-trivial plus: multiples power each other up.

Another corner-case thing: once you do play that 6th spell, it can attack in the face of Sphinx (though I doubt that actually matters).

Will have to evaluate the 2W ability too. It's probably gonna suck hard, but still .

[MaximumCDawg]

Will have to evaluate the 2W ability too. It's probably gonna suck hard, but still .

I don't think it sucks at all; I think it overcomes one of this card's fundamental weaknesses.  It's amazing to have it there, it's just not always relevant.  I mean, early game that line of text might as well not exist.  But, if you end up in a topdeck or hard control mode, the ability to tick up your dork without needing to draw any more cards makes this threat like ten times better than it would be otherwise.  It's NOT a dead topdeck in late game; you can spend a few useless turns getting a 3/3 or 4/4.  It's a mana sink, and we like mana sinks.

Think about it; without that ability, dropping this for 1 mana without more cards in hand does literally nothing (it doesn't come with any Lore counters).

EDIT: Man, with all these totally bonkers Prowess creatures running around (Pyromaster, Mentor, Myth, Swiftspear) I feel like I want to make some kind of Niv-Magus Elemental WR deck.  Are there any cantrips that don't have to resolve to draw you cards?

[xouman]

Land, Mox, Top, this is 4 cards. Then you have another land, cantrip and counter? And then a second Mox?

I don't know what kind of deck you're playing but this sequence isn't the median for the kind of deck that plays enough Moxen to draw multiples consistently. You're thinking of the action-packed Delver shells that wouldn't touch Top with a ten foot pole.

Land, this enchantment, mox. misstep
land, nothing.
land, nothing.
mox, nothing. maybe some removal on your turn. if you want to attack, pass over this 4/4


Delver has about 15 lands, and maybe 8 creatures. So it has 37 non-creature spells, meaning you are drawing 3 out of 5 turns. Plus you are using cantrips, increasing the ratio.

I understand it gets worse from the top, but mentor is nothing special in same circunstances. If you draw lands over 3 turns in the late game, mentor is a vanilla 2/2, while this card can be pumped (probably twice each turn) into a decent beater.

[MaximumCDawg]

Right, xou.  In goldfish land this is compares favorably to Mentor when you consider how much cheaper it is.  HOWEVER... dat chump blocker.  Is it safe to play a card that says "Each turn, kill a token" if your enemy has a Mentor or Pyromaster?  That's the test.

[Protoaddict]

Is there a mono white build for this maybe? I mean balance is a great damn idea but its just one card. I wonder if there is a stax way to do this?

4x Myth realized
1x Balance
4x sphere of resistance
4x Thorn of amethyst
4x Leyline of sanctity
4x swords to plowshares

5x moxen
1x Sol ring
1x Lotus
4x Serras sanctum
1x stripmine
4x wastelands

There is your core and just add on many enchantments to the list. Ghostly prison seems good.

[MaximumCDawg]

Why go with a heavy enchantment shell?  The fact that this guy is an Enchantment seems like one of its most minor selling points.

[diopter]

Xouman, 4/4 after 3 turns is definitely a more reasonable median expectation of this card than 7/7 after one turn.

And that's okay! That's still a decent size for the cost.

[xouman]

Well, I can agree this card is far worse in token's pairings.

What about oath? myth is better by a mile. Do not trigger oath, you don't have to tap to play it, suffers the same hate (decay) or even less (jace, toxic deluge).

MUD? I prefer a Myth since it's cheaper, even when I understand that can be hit by COTV at 1. But with COTV at 1, mentor suffers too.

Tezz, combo? Myth does not make you to get tapped, so you can keep your countermagic ready to fight them. On the other hand, mentor should be quicker and does not need investment each turn.

Aggro? The more the creatures, more advantage for mentor. BUT! Aggro decks can hose your mana so you cannot get to 3 mana (it happened to me in my last tournament a couple of times, after 2 and 3 strips in a row). Besides aggro decks often have bolts that harm mentor but not Myth (supposedly).

Control? Mentor is better, specially if you play caverns. But again, Myth is nice in slow, control builds since you can add counters in opponent's EOT.


On paper Myth looks terrific. We will see in next months...

[mueller]

Would we play Delver if Insectile Aberration didn't have flying and the card didn't pitch?

not rhetorical. How you answer that is probably how good you think the card is.

[serracollector]

I for one am going to get four and try this guy out with Rancor. It pumps him. Stops chump blocking and when he turns back into an enchantment it falls off to go back to your hand to pump him some more.

[fsecco]

Guys, I know 7/7 is not that possible without a god hand. Now, having an early Myth will make it big quite rapidly. That's what I was trying to say.

My problems with it are exactly what other people said here: no evasion. So it fights very badly against a Mentor or Pyromancer. I don't know how to overcome that, but Rancor also doesn't seem very appealing (you need to spend WG every turn you want to punch with Myth).

Maybe we could start playing Echoing Truth again to get rid of tokens and blockers?

[Wagner]

I for one am going to get four and try this guy out with Rancor. It pumps him. Stops chump blocking and when he turns back into an enchantment it falls off to go back to your hand to pump him some more.

With Spirit of the Labyrinth,  Aegis of the Gods, Eidolon of Rhetoric and this new guy, we're starting to get quite a bit of Enchantment dudes for a more aggro deck.

[MaximumCDawg]

My problems with it are exactly what other people said here: no evasion. So it fights very badly against a Mentor or Pyromancer. I don't know how to overcome that, but Rancor also doesn't seem very appealing (you need to spend WG every turn you want to punch with Myth).

On the other hand, that's a cheap counter every turn if you are playing this in some kind of non-blue cantrip shell.  Because you hate yourself?

[ben_berry]

I see it acting more like Mishras Factory than Delver. It dodges sorcery speed removal. Immune to all the artifact hate and you can easily play around fire/ice and bolt.

[mmcgeach]

Hmm.  Nice!

I think I'd play this in superfriends (http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=46116.msg659883#new)
It dodges the wraths I want to use.

FYI: Balance is insane.

[fsecco]

My problems with it are exactly what other people said here: no evasion. So it fights very badly against a Mentor or Pyromancer. I don't know how to overcome that, but Rancor also doesn't seem very appealing (you need to spend WG every turn you want to punch with Myth).

On the other hand, that's a cheap counter every turn if you are playing this in some kind of non-blue cantrip shell.  Because you hate yourself?

Yeah... paying GW to put a +1/+1 counter on a creature doesn't seem any good to me. Even the tapping Top on upkeep trick doesn't seem that good with Myth as it is with Mentor. But I like the Mishra's factory analogy ben_berry put up there. Nice.

[desolutionist]

The card gets rolled by bounce or commonly played enchantment removal as well as Phyrexian Revoker.  It also implies fetching Tundra early.  In a parfait style deck, I'm assuming they would rather have some hate bears

[MaximumCDawg]

The card gets rolled by bounce or commonly played enchantment removal as well as Phyrexian Revoker.  It also implies fetching Tundra early.  In a parfait style deck, I'm assuming they would rather have some hate bears

The thing is, who runs Enchantment removal nowadays?  Revoker is totally a thing, but I don't even see Nature's Claim anymore very much.  Everyone's on the anti-shop Red plan.

[desolutionist]

Abrupt Decay is pretty common I think and because Oath is so popular I wouldn't rule out Trygon/Claim/Disenchant. Repeal is popular and chump blocking with Pyromancer tokens is also a thing.

[mmcgeach]

Yeah, I dont think its the best.  But it's kinda neat for a deck that wants to control the board with wraths.  Which, of course, it's an open question if that's really vintage-viable.  But it sure is tempting to run toxic deluge & balance to blow away mentor & friends.  Then you're left with this thing, which could be a great game-ender.  I feel like there's some control decks that don't want to run vault-key as their wincon and this might be better. 

That's assuming "control decks" exist in the current meta; they do seem to be at their lowest ebb in recent memory.