[DTK] Myth Realized

[Random Noob]

Abrupt Decay is pretty common I think and because Oath is so popular I wouldn't rule out Trygon/Claim/Disenchant. Repeal is popular and chump blocking with Pyromancer tokens is also a thing.

Repeal and Decay aren't bad against Delver either.

[Stormanimagus]

There's this old deck called Landstill. It doesn't want to run many creatures I hear . Just sayin.'

[MaximumCDawg]

I'm still diggin the idea of running this in Oath.  Seems to gel better with that deck than Evil Sissors did.  Or, heck, why not both?  Aggro Oath!

[Commandant]

There's this unplayable deck called Landstill. It doesn't want to run many creatures I hear . Just sayin.'

FIFY

[John Cox]

The death of oath without an orchard.

[NosferatuStuff]

This doesn't go with Oath.  The Oath plan is give them chump tokens and win the turn after when you activate it.  The tokens you give them block this guy all day and if they do block they lose the token you are trying to give them in the first place.  Seems counter productive.

[Protoaddict]

The balance plan is super strong if you can make it happen, but since you only have one balance it does not seems great. I was even going as far as to think you should play restore balance and cascades until I realized this dude gets in the way of the cascades.

I think legacy enchantress will want 4 of these guys, and it will probably have a price tag for that reason. Hell legacy enchantress is damn saucy right now I think because of sanctum, leylines, enchantment hate bears and heliod, but I have my doubts about this in vintage. A better Quirion Dryad is still just a better version of a card that sees no play right now, and I am not sure this guys is even better in the strictest sense.

[boxian]

I'd like to be marked down as co-signing the comments that xou has made.

I think this card is very real and I really like the mana costs associated with it. It is easy to come down and play a long control game. It doesn't stack up well against token armies by itself, but in a control deck I think it has legs via sweepers of some kind and just being a constantly growing threat while you control the game. I love holding up mana for EOT interaction and using it to get ahead with real cards or just add lore counters if you don't need to stop your opponent.

I'll be picking some up for sure.

[diopter]

I don't think this is actually any good at all in a hard control shell with a ton of board control (e.g. UW or UWB).

My experience tells me that some of the Mentor builds will absolutely want several Myth Realized's as their strengths/weaknesses complement each other nicely.

If you're the hard control guy with Myths and expensive sweepers against the tempo guy with Myths and free card draw... that match of Magic will end for you.

[xouman]

This doesn't go with Oath.  The Oath plan is give them chump tokens and win the turn after when you activate it.  The tokens you give them block this guy all day and if they do block they lose the token you are trying to give them in the first place.  Seems counter productive.

Well, if you have orchard in play you need just the other half of the combo to win, so welcome. This enchantment means that tokens are not going to kill you quickly.

If you don't have neither oath nor orchard, this is a quite nice tool. Opponent should be afraid to play creatures and Myth can push hard.

The best scenario is when you have oath but don't have the orchard, I think that is clear.

So I think this card would be nice for oath. Probably not played, because oath wants to combo and this card does nothing for it, but it's a nice complement.

And if you have oath but don't have orchard, this c

[gkraigher]

I really think all of you are overlooking a fundamental problem with this card:  it is a terrible card to draw.  

It's very good in your opening hand, but if you draw this on turn 3-4 the card is awful.  Variance can make a deck lose, and this is a high variance card.  You won't be happy with this card in a 7 round tournament because of that fact.  

unlike blightsteel colossus, where it was a 1 of, this card is probably played in 2-4 quanities.  In fact, you probably have to run more copies because you want to see it early.  It's a lose-lose situation in deck building.  

The deck that it is concievably the best against, MUD, runs phyrexian revoker.  

It's a cool design, and the price is right, but the card isn't good enough because it's not a card you want to draw in the middle of a game.  I like to look at magic cards as if they are good enough on their own.  Sometimes, like affinity, the pieces become something bigger, but that is the rarety.  More often than not, you have to rely on a card being good on it's own.  Even young pyromancer is still a 2/1 for 2 mana, that's not great but it's something.  Monastery Mentor is a 2/2 you can bluff with.  This card is a 0/0 for WW.  

The fact that you have to pay a W to activate it (instead of 0) means you have fewer resources to use to uptick it.  I envision a lot of scenarios where you have to activate it to block a token, so you tap your tundra and can't cast mana drain or spell piece because of it.  

[diopter]

Your last paragraph is very well stated, gkraigher. After pondering it some more, I can see exactly the situation you are describing, and it probably puts the Myth pilot on the road to losing.

[xouman]

Myth as a top deck is at least on pair with delver itself. Delver can attack for 1 for free, this cannot. However at midgame I can reasonably expect to pay  in order to pump it, unless I have other business. And if I have other business I'm happy to slowly grow this.

While  is not negligible, it seems a fair price. Of course it makes a worse card for quick, aggressive decks, but shouldn't affect a lot to slower, controllish decks.

[vaughnbros]

The mana cost is deceptive.  You are essentially committed to paying every turn for the rest of the game.  It being a terrible top deck is just icing on (or maybe off?) the cake.

[serracollector]

Why does it have to be a terrible topdeck or only used in legacy enchantress? Why not run it in an enchantress list with Remora and Seal of Removal and green or white seals and Counters? Is a control enchantress variant not viable with Fastbond and Courser this guy the blue enchantments mentioned and even Gush? Or you can go a different route and even use Tabernacle and the Seals to keep the board clear til this guy wins. I see a plethora of options. 

[gkraigher]

delver being a bad top deck later in the game is mitigated by the fact that it is blue. 

[mmcgeach]

Someone mentioned this could complement Mentor the way Delver complements Pyromancer.  That seems possible.  Some of those Mentor lists with literally just 4 threats and no tutors to find them could really use another 2-3 threats.

[MaximumCDawg]

If this guy doesn't get there, it's because vertical growth as a concept is just inherently not playable in Vintage anymore.  That's really the only strike against this monster.  Some of the other criticisms people are making in this thread just don't hold up.  Just like Goyf and Treasure Cruise, this is a card that rewards you handsomely for just playing the game.

Vaughn:  You're missing the fact that this card gives you options.  Delicious, delicious options.

You only pay W when you want it to be a creature.  It's like Mishra's Factory.   I would normally envision dropping this on turn 1 or whatever and then just ignoring it for awhile.  Make it a dork only when the time is right - you've got protection online, it's out of bolt range, you've duressed away the Decay, whatever.  It's something you set and forget and then it wins you the game later on.

Now, if everything goes very well, sure, you can do the beatdown plan.  If you drop this and then probe and see no answer, well, by all means start swinging with a 2/2 or 3/3 next turn.  Options are a Vintage player's best friend.

gkraigher: It's worse to draw it later in the game, sure, but as Xouman said, it's no worse than a Delver.  Say you draw this on turn 4.  You don't play it to put yourself off Drain mana unless you have a reason to know the coast is clear; why would you?  For that matter, why would you play this card in a Drain shell?  I don't think you really need to cater to the mana sink ability; it's just gravy.

You plop it out there and forget about it and enjoy your options.  If you just keep playing the game normally, you're still going to end up with a 2/2 or 3/3 in a turn or two just for playing the game.  And, unlike Delver, this card can still grow to huge proportions if left unchecked in the late game.  

Think of it like this.  Drawing this card late game is kind of like drawing half of your combo.  Except, instead of comboing with another card, this combos with TIME.  If you're not stopped, you have a path to victory.  Playing Volt Key doesn't do anything by itself, usually, but we still do it.  Playing this with a single counter or two isn't gonna win the game, but wait a few turns and we're cooking with gas that Delver can't dream of.

delver being a bad top deck later in the game is mitigated by the fact that it is blue.  

And this being a "slow" -- not bad -- topdeck later is mitigated by the fact that it triggers Prowess.

[gkraigher]

let's be realistic and say this card grows at a rate of 1.5 a turn after the first turn (although I have a feeling it grows at a much lower rate than this).  If you play this on turn 3, then by turn 7 you have a 5/5, let's even round up to a 6/6.  How exactly is that gas?

Turn 1 this card can be a 5/5 out of the gates.  I'm not argueing the card is not good on turn 1, it's great.  I'm only saying the card is bad later in the game, and that creates a level of variance for your deck that will not allow you to win a major tournament.  

[MaximumCDawg]

let's be realistic and say this card grows at a rate of 1.5 a turn after the first turn (although I have a feeling it grows at a much lower rate than this).  If you play this on turn 3, then by turn 7 you have a 5/5, let's even round up to a 6/6.  How exactly is that gas?

Turn 1 this card can be a 5/5 out of the gates.  I'm not argueing the card is not good on turn 1, it's great.  I'm only saying the card is bad later in the game, and that creates a level of variance for your deck that will not allow you to win a major tournament.  

I'm skeptical of this analysis because it smells to me like Delver is subject to all of the same complaints.  Even more so a card like Dark Ritual (which doesn't see play because of shops, not because of variance).

[gkraigher]

Drawing this card late game is kind of like drawing half of your combo.  Except, instead of comboing with another card, this combos with TIME.  If you're not stopped, you have a path to victory....but wait a few turns and we're cooking with gas that Delver can't dream of.

then at what rate do you think this card grows?

again, devler is not a dead draw late because:
1) your deck has a large number of instants/sorceires
2) your deck has the ability to stack the top with brainstorm, ponder, pre-ordain, mystical tutor and jace
3) is blue.  

Only #1 can be said about myth realized.  

I'd still rather have a delver of secrets on turn 1 than myth realized 100% of the time because delver flies over tokens.  And I'd always prefer to draw a delver of secrets than a myth realized.  

[MaximumCDawg]

I'd still rather have a delver of secrets on turn 1 than myth realized 100% of the time because delver flies over tokens.  

On this particular point, I wholeheartedly agree.  I think pretend-Jeskai lives or dies based on whether being chumped all day is just too daunting.

EDIT: Here's a dumb idea.  Do we have enough non-creature creatures that are playable on their own to finally make Polymorph a thing in Vintage or Legacy?  For those who might not be in the know about old crappy cards, Polymorph destroys a creature and then looks at cards in the controller's deck until you hit another creature card.  That creature comes into play.  If the only creature in your deck is Grislebrand / Emrakul / Blightsteel, well, congratulations you just drew a big ol' monster. 

Pros:
- Between Factory, Myth, and Sissors, we now have a good solid core for a passable aggro plan that can support Polymorph.  Those cards all play nicely with each other and like artifacts, so Tinker works well too.
- Polymorph only costs 1 mana more than Tinker and does not require you to destroy the creature unless it resolves, so you keep it if it's countered.
- Polymorph can be used offensively if you're feeling really lucky.
- Polymorph can get the same things that Oath can (i.e. everything).
- Polymorph enjoys the concept of being in a big mana artifact deck, just like Sissors and Myth do.
- Works well with both Tezzeret cards as additional aggro options.

Cons:
- Poly costs as much as Gifts and Natural Order, also cards that end the game and yet see very limited play.
- Restricts you to building a deck without tons of efficient hate bears
- Might be better just to stick to the Tutor for Tinker plan, since it gives you more flexibility.

[Wagner]

I'd still rather have a delver of secrets on turn 1 than myth realized 100% of the time because delver flies over tokens.  

Pros:
- Between Factory, Myth, and Sissors, we now have a good solid core for a passable aggro plan that can support Polymorph.  Those cards all play nicely with each other and like artifacts, so Tinker works well too.
- Polymorph only costs 1 mana more than Tinker and does not require you to destroy the creature unless it resolves, so you keep it if it's countered.

Polymorph will cost 2 more than tinker if you are using it on Factory or Myth since you'll need to transform them beforehand.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

I really like this card. It's not as explosive as mentor, but im sure it has its place is SOME shell or meta. It's possibly better agaisnt oath, as mentioned. And I'm not convinced it is a bad top deck. I'm often playing mentor of the top, then playing 1 spell, then befor I attack storming to 5 next turn for big damage/assured legal next turn. Like I said it's not a explosive but 6 attack is good/fine for one mana. Also you don't have to expose this guy to bolt or jace bounce if you don't want to, like you sometimes do with mentor. Also, not that I plan to be paying 3 mana to add a lore counters to him, but when you rip this thing and then stone nothing, this dude seems better cornercase than mentor if you had a decent mana base in play. Card isn't format breaking, but I wouldn't write it off yet.

[serracollector]

I still dont understand why this cant simply be used in enchantress. Argothian has shroud and draws you cards even if stuff gets countered. This makes this card draw you one if drawn anything past turn two to fuel it and with cards like Remora and Sylvan Library its not hard to find fuel for the fire. Not to mention the silly amount of counters you can add with a Sanctum. Am I the only one that thinks Enchantress could be good now especially with this beat stick? As mentioned before we got Scissors too! Dont seem hard to make an aggro control enchantress list atm that would do well versus this critter meta.

[Stormanimagus]

I still dont understand why this cant simply be used in enchantress. Argothian has shroud and draws you cards even if stuff gets countered. This makes this card draw you one if drawn anything past turn two to fuel it and with cards like Remora and Sylvan Library its not hard to find fuel for the fire. Not to mention the silly amount of counters you can add with a Sanctum. Am I the only one that thinks Enchantress could be good now especially with this beat stick? As mentioned before we got Scissors too! Dont seem hard to make an aggro control enchantress list atm that would do well versus this critter meta.

The problem is that key enchantments might be fighting your draw engine but would still be enchantments you want to run, namely Spirit of the Labyrinth and Eidolon of Rhetoric. I don't see how the enchantress deck is maintaining control of the game. What are you imagining? I would love enchantress to be viable, but I guess I'm just not sure what the lock is/finisher is.

-Storm

[JACO]

This is one of the coolest card designs I've seen in a long time, taking everything into account. I am very impressed. That being said, common cards that would interact with this in Vintage currently:
Mental Misstep (and plenty of other counters)
Chalice of the Void
Phyrexian Revoker
Swords to Plowshares
Wear//Tear
Abrupt Decay
Repeal

Doesn't seem all that well positioned, especially in light of the horizontal growth that Monastery Mentor provides in the same color, but a very cool card.

[youhavenogame]

Yeah and that list of answers doesn't even include Pyromancer and Mentor, which are THE reasons not to run this. Tarmogoyf is unplayed right now, so why should this see play? Unlike Goyf, if you draw additional copies later, they don't come into play huge but still have to be growed.

Also, this is not the card Enchantress is looking for. Enchantress already has plenty of ways to win, what they could need would be another good enchantress effect or some cool new cheap lock piece.
 

[desolutionist]

I think it is safe to say that you wouldn't play Myth Realized and Delver of Secrets in the same deck.  So if you're playing Blue, isn't Delver of Secrets better than Myth Realized across the board?  It's a 3/2 flyer for one.  Myth Realized might get to that point around the same time as Delver, but it won't have flying, it will cost W to activate, AND this is assuming you had the mana and the spells to play 3 cards before you do.

[saspook]

I like how this is unaffected by Tangle Wire.  You can float mama and pump it, and then with you land drop activate to block golems.