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Author Topic: Top 4 Split with Mentor at Eternal Extravaganza 2  (Read 9336 times)
brianpk80
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« on: March 16, 2015, 02:24:55 pm »

120+ players showed up for Vintage on Sunday at Tales of Adventure in greater Allentown, PA (North of Philly, Southwest of New York) for Eternal Extravaganza 2, managing to attract more entrants than the companion Modern event on the same day.  Go Vintage.  I played the following list, going 5-0, ID-ing into the Top 8, winning the first single elim match and then agreeing to split with Chris Stagno (Oath), Greg Fenton (Oath), and Nicholas DiJohn (Shops).  We were going to play it out for the valor though it ended up getting late and two people had extremely long drives on a Sunday (including a five hour drive to Pittsburgh) so the big three archetypes of Vintage (Shops, Oath, Gush Ag'Gro) each succeeded in producing undefeated decks.

UWRb Mentor

Artifacts:
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sensei's Divining Top

Creatures:
2 Monastery Mentor
1 Notion Thief
1 Snapcaster Mage

Instants:
4 Force of Will
3 Mental Misstep
2 Flusterstorm
3 Gush
3 Dig Through Time
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Repeal
1 Fire // Ice

Planeswalkers:
3 Dack Fayden
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sorceries:
3 Gitaxian Probe
3 Preordain
1 Ponder
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Time Walk

Land:
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
2 Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Library of Alexandria

Sideboard:
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Containment Priest
1 Rest in Peace
1 Aegis of the Gods
2 Steel Sabotage
2 Ingot Chewer
2 Wear // Tear
1 Sudden Shock
1 Supreme Verdict

The list differs from other Mentor approaches by using the card not as a 4x build-around gimmick but simply as the finisher in a heavy card advantage Planeswalker control shell.  I also think it's important particularly in the Northeast to not cheat on land despite the fact that in a vacuum, Gush is a "mana source."  I've experienced and witnessed more game losses due to not finding that second Island not only against Wasteland decks but also in blue mirrors, so the philosphy here is "Get those Islands, let Dack get rid of the excess, and heaven forbid, worst case scenario, use the mana to chain Dig Through Times."  Merchant Scroll is a reasonable candidate for being the best card in the deck.  It does everything, finding whatever draw spell the situation calls for (fantastic after Probing), Flusterstorms for blowouts, either of the maindeck removals (Repeal, Fire//Ice), or Gush to rescue Volcanic Islands (we all know why).  The quasi-four color mana base was made workable by not running Demonic Tutor, Will, or Vamp since they seduce you into fetching Underground Seas and don't do too much in a non-Tinker/Oath list that isn't already accomplished by Dig Through Time.  Notion Thief has been preferable to the third Mentor because it gives you more game against decks that try to Vintage you and it's a total finisher unto itself with Dack Fayden.  I don't like drawing early or multiple Mentors against things like Tendrils, Vault, Oath, Doomsday, et. al. or even Shop where 2W can be an issue and the first 3-CMC spell you want on the table is Dack Fayden, not Monastery Mentor.  Going up to 3 maindeck Dack Faydens has been fantastic.  A final notable feature is the lack of non-card advantage removal.  I hate having dead Swords to Plowshares or Lightning Bolts in hand at any time; those cards put your opponent's choices in the driver's seat.  Instead of obsessing over grinding out a creatures deck, this list prefers to just draw a million cards and put itself in the position where that card advantage and Digging enables you to "deal with problems" via broken Vintage shenanigans like taking three consecutive turns, making a million Monks, tutoring up Fire//Ice and flashing it back, Jace-bouncing and Dack-Thiefing something away, etc.  One of the funniest episodes in testing was using Dack-Ultimate and Fire//Ice to steal an Omniscience.  I still can't believe that happened.  Go to hell, Boseiju.  Smile

Report:

Round 1: Seth Zulinsky on TV/Key/Top Gifts Control, Win 2-1

Game 1 I lost the die roll but fanned open a 7 that looked like heaven to me.  Delta, Mana Crypt, Ancestral Recall, Probe, Flusterstorm, Jace, Dig Through Time.  He played Flooded Strand, Mox, Sensei's Divining Top, pass.  To make matters even better, my first draw was Mox Sapphire.  I Probed him and saw Land, Brainstorm, Gifts Ungiven.  "What a blowout," I thought.  He Brainstormed, it seemed harmless, I didn't fight.  To my abject horror, on his next turn he played.... Counterbalance.  "Wait a minute, what?"  I Recalled in resp, he Forced pitching Gifts.  Next turn I drew Dack, played Dig Through Time and found another Dack and a Mentor.  He did not have an 8-CMC handy.  The only spell I ever resolved for the rest of the game was a single Dack Fayden, that died to a Snapcaster Mage flashing back Brainstorm, putting Gifts Ungiven on top of library to counter my Jace.  Ugh.  I was amazed.  The match was spirited and humorous overall; I joked with him by saying he was "playing a troll deck" and that I would "destroy" him for vengeance.  

Game 2, I played a land, pass.  He played Mox, Top, Fetchland, Sapphire, Counterbalance; I Forced; He Forced back; I Flusterstormed his Force.  "Hell no."  He was down to 1 card, I was at 2 I think, but fortunately, 1 of them was Gush.  He ended up buried under CA, Digs, Planeswalkers, and Monks.

Game 3, he played Counterbalance but no Top.  I found Library of Alexandria early on and may have Gushed up to 7 cards.  Because there was no Top, I was able to test the waters of Counterbalance with off-color Moxen.  He played an early Ambush Viper Snapcaster, no relevant Flashback.  I eventually resolved a Jace and fatesealed his Sapphire to the bottom because I wanted to play my own to hold up Flusterstorm, as his hand was Gifts, Gifts, Drain, Massacre.  My Sapphire ended up countered by a Polluted Delta, requiring me to Force his first Gifts, let the second one resolve (X, Demonic, Mystical, Vamp with Counterbalance in play-disgusting!) and then pretend I was depleted when he went for Yawgmoth's, which I ultimately did Force.  I played a Monk forcing his hand on the Massacre, which was great cause I wanted his Snapcaster dead.  I played a single irrelevant spell to rescue the Mentor by making it 3/3.  Then as the match went to turns, I made more Monks and they got there in time.  Justice.

Round 2: Brian Pallas on Forgemaster Greaves, Win 2-1

I knew him as a Shop guy, lost the die roll, he played Tomb, Mox, Chalice 1 which didn't match up well with my hand of Fetch, Mox, Dack, Land, Force, Misstep, X.  I played fetch pass.  He played Greaves, Cavern Construct, Pass.  I played Dack and stole the Greaves to keep him off Forgemaster nonsense.  I Dacked away useless Flusterstorms and Chaliced out Probes.  Played Monastery Mentor and equipped Greaves to it, then in subsequent turns, equipped Greaves to fresh Monks that needed haste.  Stole his Mox.  We know how this goes.

Game 2, I had Chewer, 3 mana sources (fetch, Island, Mox), Containment Priest, Gush, and Preordain.  He played Chalice 1 again.  Land Mox pass.  He played Revoker, I tapped my Mox for green, he named Dack Fayden.  He Equipped Greaves to Revoker, I considered flashing in Priest but waited.  I drew a Chaliced out Probe.  I was hoping when he tapped all his lands on his next turn that it would be for Forgemaster and I could execute a Containment Priest blowout but unfortunately, it was a hardcast Steel Hellkite with Greaves in play.  Gush in response, no Force or Steel Sabotage found, good game.

Game 3, I Probed him, he had Tomb, Mox, Greaves, Spellskite, Golem, Forgemaster, something else.  I played Sapphire, Mana Crypt, Land, Jace, fateseal: see Phyrexian Revoker, BOTTOM that trash.  He played Greaves.  On my turn I Brainstormed with Jace, fetched Tundra, played Monastery Mentor and then made some Monks with actual Brainstorm (the restricted Instant) and another spell.  He played Spellskite.  I played Dack, stole Greaves, he redirected to Spellskite as I expected, I gladly took Spellskite and attacked for a lot.  The situation got out of hand very quickly.

Round 3: Lance Ballester on Punishing Fire Landstill, Win 2-0

Lance Wasted and Strip Mined me aggressively but lo and behold, there's that Polluted Delta and we go Gushing into Dack, steal his Ruby, and suddenly Jace is involved.  I Forced his Standstill.  We go to game 2.

Game 2, he kept a get there hand with Grove, Factory, Dack, Notion Thief, and some stuff but it took a few turns to find the blue source.  Meanwhile, I got Jace, Fatesealed, and put that Scalding Tarn on the bottom.  When he found a fetchland and played Dack, discarding Punishing Fire and setting up a Delve draw spell for the following turn, I did the rudest thing ever which is to Dig Through Time my entire graveyard and follow it up with Rest in Peace.  GG.

Round 4: Jonathan Geras on Merfolk, Win 2-1

I didn't know what he was on and with Jon, there's a 45% chance it's Shops, a 45% chance it's Merfolk, and a 10% chance it's something else.  It's never Bomberman, cause that deck is irrelevant.  Two days before the event while doing work-related research I had terrifying visions in the back of my head all day of getting double True-Named off a Cavern or having my planeswalkers + blocks disabled by a bunch of uncounterable Lords.  Sometimes even Elesh Norn is not enough with the 'folk.  Balance is potentially a blowout but in practice has been really awkward in a field of Gush, given the land and hand clauses.  The existence of TNN and Mentor led to the decision to cut Swords from the SB entirely and just play Sudden Shock and Supreme Verdict.  Strangely enough though, neither card came up during the match.

To my horror, he led with Island.  I knew that meant Merfolk.  My hand was land, land, land, Mox, Force of Will, Force of Will, MM.  Not great but had potential if he were on Shop and I drew into any cantrip/business spell, which is like 70% of the deck.  Luckily his Merfolk hand was slow and after some Strip effects, nothing happened until a mid-game True-Name without a Cavern.  I tapped out to hardcast Force of Will (a bad card whose impotence is usually magnified by a factor of 10 in the Cavern Merfolk match-up), he Dazed it, I Forced again, and miraculously the True-Name was gone.  All I was drawing this game was mana and counterspells.  I probed him and saw Wasteland, Time Walk, Master of the Pearl Trident, Island, Island.  Not as scary as I would have imagined.  Eventually I got Dack who started turning my bad counterspells into real cards.  He played the Lord, Time Walked, killed Dack.  I don't remember how it all went down precisely, but I ended up with a Mentor in play and Fire//Icing his Lord after he played Silvergill Adept.  I Forced or Flustered a Treasure Cruise at some point.  Turn 1, when I saw his Island and learned he was on Merfolk, with my keep of counterspells and land, and then drawing more of the same, I thought I was out of the game entirely and was on tilt.  I was surprised I ended up winning that game.  If he had Cavern of Souls I would have been bloodied.

Game 2, He Merfolked me hard.  I was on mull 6, with fetchland, Top, Brainstorm, Jace, Fire//Ice, and Probe.  He led on the play with Cursecatcher and Probe revealed Wasteland, 2 Lords, and a Force of Will.  By the critical turn during which I was facing lethal, which was super early, maybe Turn 3 or something, I was unable to pay for both Dig Through Time and Time Walk because of the Cursecatcher and he Forced the Dig anyway.  

Game 3, I Probed him looking for Force; it was not there.  His hand was Cavern, Wasteland, Dismember, Cursecatcher, Lord, and stuff that didn't matter for my intentions.  I said, "Ok, you're in trouble."  Black Lotus, Monastery Mentor, Emerald, Fetchland, Time Walk.  Untap, play Mana Crypt, attack for 7.  He had to go to 9 to Dismember the Mentor.  I drew blank, attacked for 3 more.  He played Cursecatcher, I played Snapcaster Mage, Time Walk, he went to 1 life, the Cursecatcher died, etc.  

Round 5: Chris (Sorry can't remember last name) on UWR Cavern Delver.

He wins die roll, plays Cavern of Souls naming Human and taps it.  I was thinking it may have been a cool Noble Hierarch Humans deck or a Bob/Thalia contraption but instead, he played Delver of Secrets.  The Delver flipped fast and despite drawing a lot of cards, I was down to like ~10 before eliminating the Delver and then he played an uncounterable Monastery Mentor and had found Force of Will off Preordain one turn after a Probe revealed the coast had been clear.  He Forced something that wasn't necessarily Force-worthy on its own, but it made a Monk and that sealed my fate.  

Game 2, I Jace-Ultimated him.  Rumors of Jace's demise are greatly exaggerated.  If there's any deck where Jace should have absolutely no chance of survival, it's URx Gush Ag-'Gro where pretty much every card in the deck kills Jace for 1 mana.  Throw in Cavern of Souls so I can't even stop Delver/Pyro/Mentor with Force and it should spell doom.  But Jace is eternal.  He lives.

Game 3, he was beating me down with double Snapcasters but I stabilized at 6 life and played Monastery Mentor.  I think the match went to time and I had one of those absurd Vintage Mentor turns where you chain a gazillion spells together, find Black Lotus, chain a gazillion more, then play Snapcaster -> Fire on his blockers and attack for 70,000.  

Round 6-ID with Nicholas DiJohn, Forgemaster Shops.  

Round 7-Doomsday.

I was a lock for T8 and offered to draw.  He was the highest seed X-1 and there was a slim chance that a draw would jeopardize his chances, so he wanted to play.  He asked if I would agree to draw at any point in the match if he changed his mind and I agreed, since I was locked no matter what.  He mulled to 6.  I Probed him g1 and saw Hurks, MisD, Doomsday, Underground, Underground, Tropical.  I was soon high on life with a Mentor in play, Merchant Scrolling for Flusterstorm with Force, Fire//Ice, Notion Thief, and Repeal in hand.  He Duressed me and conceded.  He asked if I'd still draw, I kept my word.

Top 8: David Kaplan on RUG Delver, Win 2-0

He won the die roll and led with a stunning Lotus, Land, Delver, Pyromancer.  I Probed him and saw Brainstorm, Land, Dig Through Time.  I waited until his upkeep when he played Brainstorm and responded with Ancestral Recall.  In the next turns I played Monaster Mentor and Fire//Iced the Delver.  I Flusterstormed his Bolt on my Mentor.  I was down to 7 and made a decision to stop using Fetchlands even though I could use an expansion of mana base to not lose the token war and to hardcast Mental Misstep.  It ended being the right decision because he double Bolted me.  I stablized at one life and then had a crazy Mentor Turn culminating in a Snapcaster->Fire//Ice play on his blockers with a subsequent Monk attack for 20.  

Game 2, He Lotused out a Pyromancer and played another spell (Probe, I think) and Strip Mine.  My Probe on him revealed Preordain, Preordain, Spell Pierce, something else, no blue source.  I killed the Pyromancer and quickly took over the game.  

Top 4 decided to split.  One factor behind the decision for me was the big discrepancy between what was offered as a split ($900 credit) and what would happen if I lost (less than half of $900).  The relevant factor was knowing I was on the draw against Nicholas DiJohn's Cavern Forgemaster Shops.  This guy knows what he's doing; he'll Sphere me out so fast I won't even cast a Preordain.  Cavern Golem, GG.  I told him I would destroy him and bring all Shops to justice in the name of The Academy but you know... I'm a blue mage on the draw with 2 maindeck Flusterstorms and 3 Mental Missteps who wants to chain spells.  It was just hot air.  Very Happy    

Thanks to Calvin for running a magnificent landmark event.  The food stand in the back with on-site hot dogs, sandwiches, meatballs, pasta, donuts, and everything, was such a good idea.  It was great seeing everyone.  Thank you to Matt Murray to running to the refreshment area and getting me an orange juice and then a Pepsi when I was locked in consecutive matches and couldn't leave the seat.  Also, thanks to my brother, Magic veteran Michael Kelly (known in the 90's for first turn Sneak Attack Nicol Bolas) who bought me an Underground Sea for Christmas.  It arrived and was in worse shape than we expected, but I said I would use that Sea yesterday for good luck and leave the NM ones in the binder.  

I look forward to the next event.  

-Brian Kelly
« Last Edit: April 06, 2015, 08:36:28 am by brianpk80 » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2015, 03:04:51 pm »

Great report. Thank you, Brian. It's good to see you setting a new standard for Monastery Mentor lists.
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« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2015, 03:24:41 pm »

Congrats on the finish and thank you for the report.  I like the added quotes and comments it makes me feel like I was there watching all of the matches.  And yes Dig into Rest in peace is very rude.
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« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2015, 03:41:41 pm »

Dam Brian congrats on the high finish! good thing I gave you back those tokens!
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« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2015, 03:51:27 pm »

Brian, congrats on the performance, and thanks for the great writeup!

Regarding the sideboard, what was the reasoning behind playing Crypt over Grafdigger's Cage? Your own deck seems hardly affected by Cage, and it seems very versatile against the obvious candidates. Was this simply to have another non-Missteppable answer to Dredge, at the cost of not being able to bring it in against Oath (and even Gifts, if you were concerned there)?

Also, in the sideboard the Steel Sabotages kind of confound me, as they're going to cost more against Workshops on average (factoring in the Thorn of Amethysts), and they also get shut out on Chalice @ 1. What's the story there?
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« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2015, 04:26:01 pm »

Awesome report! Any changes you'd make? What was/wasn't good out of the board?
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« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2015, 04:34:20 pm »

Sweet list, Brian. Some q's:
1. Did you try Remora? Thoughts?
2. No Treasure Cruise?
3. How was Probe for you on the day?
4. Did you consider Misdirection, Mana Drain, and/or Spell Pierce?
5. Have you tried out a second Top?
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« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2015, 04:48:37 pm »

Brian, congrats on the performance, and thanks for the great writeup!

Regarding the sideboard, what was the reasoning behind playing Crypt over Grafdigger's Cage? Your own deck seems hardly affected by Cage, and it seems very versatile against the obvious candidates. Was this simply to have another non-Missteppable answer to Dredge, at the cost of not being able to bring it in against Oath (and even Gifts, if you were concerned there)?

Also, in the sideboard the Steel Sabotages kind of confound me, as they're going to cost more against Workshops on average (factoring in the Thorn of Amethysts), and they also get shut out on Chalice @ 1. What's the story there?

JACO I assume that Delve spells might also have had some role in the consideration of Grafdiggers Cage vs Tormod's Crypt. Against Gifts, Crypt is quite good still as it cuts a lot of piles off.

Congratulations Brian. I've always told you that I thought you were an amazing player and this proves it. You've certainly set the bar for what Mentor decks should be doing going forward. I'm very happy to see the success. Look forward to casting Chalice at your hand in the near future...and then flipping Blightsteel to Dark Confidant. We've had some epic matches since your return to M:tG and great times externally of events. Look forward to the next adventure with you. Smile
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« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2015, 05:06:04 pm »

Awesome report Brian. Your deck looks fantastic and you piloted it to a great finish. It was great seeing you yesterday!
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« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2015, 06:01:16 pm »

Thanks for the tournament report Brian. I was interested in how things shook down, as I had a long drive ahead of me and couldn't stay for the top 8. I will take some consolation in the fact that my only two losses on the day were to members of the top 4 split. Congrats to everyone who did well!

Did the low number of threats ever present itself as a problem? Without too many hard counters it seems like if the game goes long you might runs out of counters against a threat heavier deck before finding a way to clean things up. For instance, although you beat Merfolk it seems like that might be a tough matchup in general.
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« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2015, 06:32:32 pm »

My friend Josh said there weren't any Rituals at the tournament.  Did you see any Brian?
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« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2015, 06:50:17 pm »

My friend Josh said there weren't any Rituals at the tournament.  Did you see any Brian?

I don't think there was any (maybe 1-2 random ones) actual ritual storm decks. There were a couple Doomsday decks but I don't know how many rituals they ran. Sadly this is a recurring theme Sad
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« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2015, 07:21:36 pm »

My friend Josh said there weren't any Rituals at the tournament.  Did you see any Brian?

I don't think there was any (maybe 1-2 random ones) actual ritual storm decks. There were a couple Doomsday decks but I don't know how many rituals they ran. Sadly this is a recurring theme Sad

There are wayyyy too many shops pilots for it to be a good idea unfortunately.
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« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2015, 07:59:39 pm »

Great write up, Brian!  I'm glad you defeated the Merfolk that you fear so much.  It is always a pleasure seeing you at events.
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« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2015, 10:22:16 pm »

Great job on the list. I like how this list personifies "vintage" a lot more than many other mentor lists, although I was expecting something like a Narset, Enlightened Master in the 75  Very Happy
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« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2015, 11:22:33 pm »

Thank you to everyone for the comments.  There are some good questions posted which I'll attempt to respond to as best as I can.  

Regarding the sideboard, what was the reasoning behind playing Crypt over Grafdigger's Cage? Your own deck seems hardly affected by Cage, and it seems very versatile against the obvious candidates. Was this simply to have another non-Missteppable answer to Dredge, at the cost of not being able to bring it in against Oath (and even Gifts, if you were concerned there)?

There are several reasons.

1. The converted mana cost.  It's naive to think one hate piece is enough to stop Dredge alone.  I'll find myself digging for further answers and this often involves tapping out.  
2. The effect.  Grafdigger's Cage sits there until it's destroyed by an Ingot Chewer, making Bridge tokens, at which point the Dredge player can proceed with their parade of bs right where they left off, with a stacked graveyard.  Tormod's Crypt sets them so far back because they have to find their answer and once that happens they go right back to square one--no Dredgers in the yard, no Bridges, no Cabal Therapies, half the deck gone.  While the Dredge player is wasting time just starting to recuperate, the blue mage is able to build towards insurmountable advantage.
3. Immunity to Misstep.
4. Not very strong against modern Oath builds.  The effect is strong against the card Oath of Druids, but not the necessarily deck itself which is so stacked with Missteps, uncounterable answers, and multitudes of alt-plans.  I saw a friend with a similar build resolve Cage two weeks ago and get blown out by Show and Tell.  This time, we were both on Containment Priest x3.  Even Wear//Tear or War Priest of Thune is preferable to Cage for Oath specifically, being able to hit both Oath of Druids or Omniscience.
5. Monastery Mentor.  Tundra, Accelerants, Mentor, Tormod's Crypt, make a Monk, Go.  It happens.  

Quote
Also, in the sideboard the Steel Sabotages kind of confound me, as they're going to cost more against Workshops on average (factoring in the Thorn of Amethysts), and they also get shut out on Chalice @ 1. What's the story there?

Chalice @1 is not backbreaking against this deck the way it was when I was testing more standard Pyromancer-like Gush builds last fall because while it can occasionally randomly win games through variance against a cantrip heavy hand, it's not turning off the removal spells of Swords and Bolt those decks desperately need.  Their primary plan is to kill Golem; mine is to steal him.  Chalice @ 0 is more obnoxious since it can slow me down, as I want to build a mana base and play things that don't interact with most other Chalices, like Dack, Jace, Gush, and Dig Through Time.  

Steel Sabotage is in this list because of my dedication to fetching Island until I can Gush a Volcanic and replay only Island, keeping Volcanic eternally as safe as possible.  Ingot Chewer is great too, but given some of the pieces of the Shop arsenal negate his utility (like Tangle Wire and Lightning Greaves, whereas he shines against Thorn specifically), having a more diverse suite of answers has been beneficial.  There are cards I prefer to counter on the stack for {U} instead of fetching a premature Volcanic for a sorcery speed Chewer.  Pitching to Force and flashing back with Snapcaster are nontrivial.  Additionally, Steel Sabotage has utility in matches where other dedicated Shop hate is less impressive: Belcher, Tinker, Ritual Storm (on the accelerants like Lotus/Jet, honestly quite effective in practice, or on Defense Grid or Memory Jar), and certainly Hrishi's Lich's Mirror combo.  Smile

To further elaborate, the maindeck starts with 3 copies of dedicated Shop hate (Dacks) with a healthy robust mana base and an abundance of "very broken things" that can happen after Forcing the first threat, so anything beyond what is already there would constitute over-boarding.  

Quote from: diophan
Thanks for the tournament report Brian. I was interested in how things shook down, as I had a long drive ahead of me and couldn't stay for the top 8. I will take some consolation in the fact that my only two losses on the day were to members of the top 4 split. Congrats to everyone who did well!

Did the low number of threats ever present itself as a problem? Without too many hard counters it seems like if the game goes long you might runs out of counters against a threat heavier deck before finding a way to clean things up. For instance, although you beat Merfolk it seems like that might be a tough matchup in general.
Quote from: HelloSamWise
Great write up, Brian!  I'm glad you defeated the Merfolk that you fear so much.  It is always a pleasure seeing you at events.

Thanks Ryan and Samantha.  The threat count was not a problem and is much higher than it initially seems, because Dack Fayden, Jace, and Dig Through Time are legitimate bombs, one of which is an established finisher.  Dack//Thief is an end-game for all intents and purposes as well.  When you're drawing 3 per turn and forcing 2 discards, you're at the point where you can win the game with anything.  There was a never a moment I wished for more finishers.  In spirit, this deck is more like a modern incarnation of Grixis Control than Pyromancer Gush.  We now have better/less vulnerable Dark Confidants (Preordain & Gush), a better primary Planeswalker (Dack), and finishers that are not devastatingly interdependent while dead or worse on their own.  

As for Merfolk, I respect the deck highly and consider it to be a major threat to any blue mage.  My friends and I are primarily mages of the Tundra and have been traumatized by Merfolk for two years now.  It got to the point where I was boarding Llawan, Cephalid Empress in Vintage.  It's not a highly favorable match-up, though Fire, Repeal, Mentor, Sudden Shock, and Supreme Verdict are very useful.  Merfolk attacks from many different angles--the counters, mana denial, and the army, and fortunately, the last one is the only one that is majorly threatening here because being on not Bomberman weakens their Null Rod and Gush weakens their denial plan.  Fortunately, the deck is nowhere near as prevalent as it was at the height of popularity so I would hope to avoid it.  If that's not possible, more drastic measures are always at one's disposal.  I was fortunate that the way things went down in this event was that we both had weak hands game 1 (thanks to Hymn-to-Tourach-Target-Myself counterspells on both sides), and I Vintaged him Game 3 before he could Legacy me.  

Quote from: desolutionlist
My friend Josh said there weren't any Rituals at the tournament.  Did you see any Brian?

I played against a deck that contained a single copy in Round 7, but the card itself did not come up.  I personally saw no Dark Rituals or Blightsteels all day, even in matches I was observing.  The past is gone.

Quote from: boggyb
Sweet list, Brian. Some q's:
1. Did you try Remora? Thoughts?
2. No Treasure Cruise?
3. How was Probe for you on the day?
4. Did you consider Misdirection, Mana Drain, and/or Spell Pierce?
5. Have you tried out a second Top?

Thanks boggy.  
1. Remora is a blue-on-blue cannibal.  It is suboptimal in the Northeast which is teeming with Shops, Fish, and Pyromancer.  It's a very good card, but I consider it an anti-blue sideboard card with which people can succeed by maindecking it in the proper metagame.  Ingot Chewer x1 for instance is a legitimate maindeck consideration around here.  
2. Treasure Cruise is outclassed by Dig Through Time.  It's less impressive when you can't reliably chain unrestricted Cruises together in a deck where the power level of all the cards is about equal.  The difference between a Delver and a Lightning Bolt is slim contrasted with the difference between a Mental Misstep and a Jace.  Dig is easier to chain because it Delves less and your mana base is generally more developed when it starts.  Being an instant means it can find the correct counterspell on the spot, operate during Tangle time, and participate in Flusterstorm blowouts.  I would play the fourth Dig before even considering the first Cruise.
3. Probe is the best cantrip in the deck and is more busted than Preordain.  I would cut a Preordain before going down to 2 Probe.  So much of good playskill involves risk/reward assessment, analyzing opponent's possible options, and sequencing accordingly.  This was much easier in the era of standard lists, everyone on 4 Force, 4 Mana Drain, and so forth.  With the explosions of diversity among and within genres and the proliferation of conditional counterspells, game-state analysis has become necessarily more complex.  Gitaxian Probe just flat out shows you what you should do thereby reducing margin of error on reasonable judgment calls to near zero.  Ancestral is its best friend.  It's unwise to simply fire it out there in a field contaminated by Misstep.  Probe tells you on the spot how many counters you need (preferably a Fluster) or if you can just fire it fearlessly.  
Contrary to conventional wisdom, Probe is also an all-star against Workshop.  I love not responsibly hedging against every lock piece in their deck and simply working around their hand.  I know what lands to play, what to fetch and when, when to Gush, what to Scroll for, what to counter and what can resolve, whether to hold back Mana Crypt due to Revoker, whether to hold things back due to impending Tangle Wire or if I need to rush them out there against a potential Chalice @ 0.  The fact that it's a free -1 off Dig Through Time and can be hardcast for {U} when life gets scarce is just gravy.  So, so good.
4. I've tried all of those conditional counters with more testing on Drain and Misdirection than Pierce.  Drain was most impressive when it shined, but 65% of the time, the field forces interaction so quickly it was just "that card I Pitched to Force."  It's not necessary and also is not always friendly with Gush.
5. Yes, and I cut it for a Preordain the first time I drew two Tops and no fetchland in my opening hand.  They're both serving the same primary function in the deck--setting up the turn 2 Dack Fayden or turn 2-3 Gush.  With only 1 Top, the above issue can never occur.  It reduces exposure to Null Rod.  The win-more case of double Top Mentor isn't worth the countervailing increase in things that can go wrong.  

Quote from: TakeYourTime
Great job on the list. I like how this list personifies "vintage" a lot more than many other mentor lists, although I was expecting something like a Narset, Enlightened Master in the 75  Very Happy.

Thank you!  I can't play Narset the Khan because I don't play bad cards, except for Force of Will and Sen Triplets which was only played to fulfill a dare.   Smile
« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 01:28:40 am by brianpk80 » Logged

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« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2015, 12:20:21 am »

Excellent report! Congratulations on a great run, Brian.

It was fun hanging out with you throughout the day. Smile
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« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2015, 01:16:29 am »

Excellent report! Congratulations on a great run, Brian.

It was fun hanging out with you throughout the day. Smile

Thanks Greg!  Congratulations to you too, Mage of the Orchard.  Tundra sends it regards.  Smile
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« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2015, 05:29:35 am »

Congratulations to your performance and the report. It was very interesting to see your reasoning in deck construction. On behalf of remora, I'd like to add that I still think it deserves a bit more consideration than just saying it's blue on blue cannibalism. It's certainly a very strong card in any control match (as you experienced in our games on cockatrice) but it's also good against MUD on the play, often turning into a pseudo time walk or draw 2-3. In combination with hurkyl's (which you don't run in your list) it's also very strong. Against Oath it's obviously very good, too. I think it could even be played as a singleton or 2-of, because in my experience, it's a nice midgame topdeck. The only situation where you don't want to draw it is when your opponent already has tons of mana (6+) or is on humans / merfolk. Against Pyromancer decks, it's a very strong card in my experience. On top of that,  it plays nicely with dig through time / gush (if played right) / notion thief (thief in your upkeep with remora trigger on the stack when you don't want to maintain it anymore) and obviously repeal. But I understand if you think it's not necessary or not that strong in your particular metagame.

Looking forward to testing your deck.
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« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2015, 10:46:13 am »

Great report and I love your deck! One thing bugs me though:

"I was a lock for T8 and offered to draw.  He was the highest seed X-1 and there was a slim chance that a draw would jeopardize his chances, so he wanted to play.  He asked if I would agree to draw at any point in the match if he changed his mind and I agreed, since I was locked no matter what.  He mulled to 6.  I Probed him g1 and saw Hurks, MisD, Doomsday, Underground, Underground, Tropical.  I was soon high on life with a Mentor in play, Merchant Scrolling for Flusterstorm with Force, Fire//Ice, Notion Thief, and Repeal in hand.  He Duressed me and conceded.  He asked if I'd still draw, I kept my word."

I really don't understand this. Why would you agree to that? It's unsportsmanlike in my opinion and disrespectful to the other players in the event. I'm sorry if it comes off harsh, but either you play or you draw. Simple as that.
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« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2015, 11:00:08 am »

Great report and I love your deck! One thing bugs me though:

"I was a lock for T8 and offered to draw.  He was the highest seed X-1 and there was a slim chance that a draw would jeopardize his chances, so he wanted to play.  He asked if I would agree to draw at any point in the match if he changed his mind and I agreed, since I was locked no matter what.  He mulled to 6.  I Probed him g1 and saw Hurks, MisD, Doomsday, Underground, Underground, Tropical.  I was soon high on life with a Mentor in play, Merchant Scrolling for Flusterstorm with Force, Fire//Ice, Notion Thief, and Repeal in hand.  He Duressed me and conceded.  He asked if I'd still draw, I kept my word."

I really don't understand this. Why would you agree to that? It's unsportsmanlike in my opinion and disrespectful to the other players in the event. I'm sorry if it comes off harsh, but either you play or you draw. Simple as that.

He was only a lock if he drew or won.  With a loss there was a chance he could've been knocked out.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 11:04:52 am by vaughnbros » Logged
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« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2015, 01:04:53 pm »

Congratulations to your performance and the report. It was very interesting to see your reasoning in deck construction. On behalf of remora, I'd like to add that I still think it deserves a bit more consideration than just saying it's blue on blue cannibalism. It's certainly a very strong card in any control match (as you experienced in our games on cockatrice) but it's also good against MUD on the play, often turning into a pseudo time walk or draw 2-3. In combination with hurkyl's (which you don't run in your list) it's also very strong. ... But I understand if you think it's not necessary or not that strong in your particular metagame.

Looking forward to testing your deck.

Thanks Peter!  I have limited testing experience with piloting Mystic Remora (though plenty of it playing against the card) but in the experiences I have had, it hasn't worked out consistently.  It has shined occasionally, but I have also had opponents giggle and play a hate bear, a Revoker and Golem, or combo off in my face without me finding the counter, which can of course be alleviated by running things like Mindbreak Trap but then I have to wonder, what am I going to cut for all that?  The Dack Faydens?  Heck no.  Remora is not un-viable, but it's a different game plan than what's going on here, which is to use mana in the early game to set up engine spells by turn 2-3--Dack, Gush, Jace, Dig Through Time.  And I stand by the notion that it's somewhat overrated because of its strength nearly exclusively in blue matches.  In that vein, it's similar to running Cabal Therapy main without Pyromancers.  Against another blue deck doing that, they may have a slightly favorable game against me which creates an illusion of superiority in testing.  But when push comes to shove and it's event time, all I can say to the blue-mage cannibals is "I'm so sorry to hear you lost again to Shop."  

Quote from: StanleyAugust
I really don't understand this. Why would you agree to that?

TY for the comments on the list.  As for the ID in Round 7, it is exactly as Lance said (TY Lance).  A loss could have been jeopardizing, but with a draw I was locked.  
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« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2015, 02:10:50 pm »

Congrats on the finish brian, it's a pretty sweet deck you have there. Ironically we both came up with a similar build and had an interesting mirror match on trice, but it's nice to see your hindsight on cards like black tutors, Treasure Cruise or Mana Drain since those are the main points where our lists differentiated.

 It's becoming increasingly obvious to me that cards don't work the same way for different players and that the concept of optimal list is just completely flawed since different playstyles/ individuals will necessitate different approaches of a same archetype, even in a same given metagame.
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« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2015, 03:16:07 pm »


Top 8: David Kaplan on RUG Delver, Win 2-0

He won the die roll and led with a stunning Lotus, Land, Delver, Pyromancer.  I Probed him and saw Brainstorm, Land, Dig Through Time.  I waited until his upkeep when he played Brainstorm and responded with Ancestral Recall.  In the next turns I played Monaster Mentor and Fire//Iced the Delver.  I Flusterstormed his Bolt on my Mentor.  I was down to 7 and made a decision to stop using Fetchlands even though I could use an expansion of mana base to not lose the token war and to hardcast Mental Misstep.  It ended being the right decision because he double Bolted me.  I stablized at one life and then had a crazy Mentor Turn culminating in a Snapcaster->Fire//Ice play on his blockers with a subsequent Monk attack for 20.  

Game 2, He Lotused out a Pyromancer and played another spell (Probe, I think) and Strip Mine.  My Probe on him revealed Preordain, Preordain, Spell Pierce, something else, no blue source.  I killed the Pyromancer and quickly took over the game.  


Congrats Brian, well deserved. You had a vision for our games and followed through on it. Always appreciate your insight into magic and real life. Looking forward to getting my revenge at NYSE!
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« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2015, 03:41:23 pm »

Congrats Brian, well deserved. You had a vision for our games and followed through on it. Always appreciate your insight into magic and real life. Looking forward to getting my revenge at NYSE!

Thanks, David!  I hope you do, and I also hope it's in the finals.  Smile

Quote from: WhiteLotus
It's becoming increasingly obvious to me that cards don't work the same way for different players and that the concept of optimal list is just completely flawed since different playstyles/ individuals will necessitate different approaches of a same archetype, even in a same given metagame.

Thanks Mac, and well said! 
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« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2015, 09:21:19 pm »

Congrats, Brian!  Always a pleasure playing you, but it sounds like I need to add a 3rd deck to my repertoire. 
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« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2015, 01:13:35 pm »

Congrats, Brian!  Always a pleasure playing you, but it sounds like I need to add a 3rd deck to my repertoire. 

Thanks Jon!  I did play you on Dredge once and also on BUG Control.  That was a real life lesson.  You Tinkered up BSC and I had Tinker but my target was Inkwell.  I never ran Leviathan again. 
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« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2015, 05:31:09 am »

@Brian: LSV just took a version of your deck for a spin through a daily event and posted video of it. Worked very well indeed!
http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/channel-lsv-vintage-control-mentor/
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« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2015, 06:22:46 am »

@Brian: LSV just took a version of your deck for a spin through a daily event and posted video of it. Worked very well indeed!
http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/channel-lsv-vintage-control-mentor/

Thank you for the heads up.  I enjoyed the videos. 
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« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2015, 10:10:03 am »

Brian: Eric Froelich played what looked to be a version of your list on the VSL playoffs on Tuesday, and beat Oath.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0NalJh29JE
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