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Author Topic: Vintage Super League: Who Would You Like to See?  (Read 34967 times)
TakeYourTime
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« on: March 18, 2015, 10:03:32 am »

Disclaimer: This is just for fun and is no way meant to impact the VSL.


I've been seeing a lot of sweet decks in VSL that have been pioneered by a lot of people in TMD community. I think this showcases just how versatile Vintage can be to the many viewers that are unfamiliar with the format.

I personally enjoy brewing more than anything, so I'd love to see some of our brewers invited to the League. Everyone enjoys different aspects of Magic more than others, so...


  {X} Who are three (3) players that you would like to see invited to VSL and why? (Cannot list yourself)
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« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2015, 10:15:43 am »

 {X} Who are three (3) players that you would like to see invited to VSL and why? (Cannot list yourself)

1.  Raffaele Forino
2.  Greg Fenton
3.  Jesse Martin

1.  Forino is the Shop master.  There are other names out there, but he's the best of the best.  If I needed someone to win a match with Shops, it would be him.

2.  Fenton's work on Oath in the last three years is profound.  His performances speak to the level at which he's playing.  Decks like Omni-Oath are cute, but Greg has put together consistently excellent lists that answer the metagame.

3.  I feel like these guys have yet to see what Storm really looks like.  Storm isn't what it was, but in the hands of a capable pilot, it's still a scary opponent.  Jesse is quietly one of the best Storm pilots in the world.  He doesn't self-promote, which may be why more people don't know his name, but they should.
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« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2015, 10:40:16 am »

  {X} Who are three (3) players that you would like to see invited to VSL and why? (Cannot list yourself)

1.  Raffaele Forino

I second Raf Forino.  This league needs a shops player, and I think he would do great in the commentary booth.  Can I actually just give all 3 votes to this?
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tito del monte
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« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2015, 10:47:32 am »

Ooh nice! I admit this is definitely a question I find myself thinking about, so here are a few suggestions in no particular order (and based largely on public personae I guess, as I don't know all these people personally):

1. Sean O'Brien (Nedleeds)
Is very capable of casting Thalia! Seriously though, I like that he represents a link to Magic's storied history. Plus that he is up for playing creatures now and again, as evinced by some really nice hatebear lists that have cropped up on this forum over the past year or two (notably Dega and Junk). Having another noted Shops player is also no bad thing.

2. One of the Forino bros or Roland Chang.
I don't know the Forinos in anything other than hushed, mythical tones, so I can't say who, individually, the better designer or player is. But from everything I've heard, they are the Shop masters and having one high-profile shop player would be good for the league I think. I also think the archetype is actually pretty ripe for innovation and perhaps the VSL would spur those guys on to new deck-designing heights.

Roland, I only know as a friend of a friend, but he's been tearing things up with Shops the past 12 months and could be another good addition.

3. Caleb Durward
This is probably a bit off-the-wall, but he is a fairly high profile player of other formats and would attract an audience I think. And as cool as it has been to see the Pros stick their necks out with some fairly spicy deck choices, I think having a noted brewer involved would be a lot of fun. Didn't work out for Josh Utter Leyton alas, but who knows what we'd see out of Caleb. Would certainly be interesting.

With all that said, I've got to say, it's been a great mix of players so far and I think the investment of the pros in the VSL and the format has been fantastic. It was cool this week to see someone like Dave Williams, with a sticky season 2 record, go balls to the wall and pick up a pretty unforgiving archetype. Or to see Eric with a perfect record plump for a deck that's just been whitewashed. Or to see Luis play a Punishing Fires brew. Considering the reputation all these guys have and the amount of work they do for PT formats, it's ace to see them going out on a limb for Vintage. Very grateful to everyone involved for making it such a good spectacle and whoever falls away this season will be sorely missed. No disrespect at all to Steve and Rich - thier accomplishments as deck builders and players are already widely known to the Vintage world and I'm glad they're getting some time in the wider MTG spotlight. But to have some of the most popular pros on board is, I think, what has made the VSL such a brilliant advert for Vintage.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2015, 04:49:11 pm by tito del monte » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2015, 10:52:47 am »

1. Finkel
2. Chapin
3. Ochoa

As much respect as I have for many of the great innovators of archetypes, VSL is not a format where I'm interested in seeing someone play a single archetype 9 weeks in a row. I'm a huge fan of the current playerbase where most of the participants are pros who can (for the most part) play anything well, as opposed to having specialists who can play one type of deck almost perfectly. I'm not saying there aren't vintage players out there who can play multiple archetypes well, but I really like seeing what decks "household" Magic names decide to play every 3 weeks.
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tito del monte
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« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2015, 11:01:47 am »

1. Finkel
2. Chapin
3. Ochoa

As much respect as I have for many of the great innovators of archetypes, VSL is not a format where I'm interested in seeing someone play a single archetype 9 weeks in a row. I'm a huge fan of the current playerbase where most of the participants are pros who can (for the most part) play anything well, as opposed to having specialists who can play one type of deck almost perfectly. I'm not saying there aren't vintage players out there who can play multiple archetypes well, but I really like seeing what decks "household" Magic names decide to play every 3 weeks.

Actually, this is a really nice selection. I know Ochoa plays some Vintage, so it would be great to have him on. Chapin is obviously an awesome deck builder, with enough of history in the game to get to grips with the Vintage card pool, even if I'm guessing he's not a regular player of the format. Do you know? Does he play Vintage at all?
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« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2015, 11:01:52 am »

I can think of several members of the Vintage community that I would love to see, several of which have already been named.

My #1 would be Chapin, though.  I think he brings a great mixture of charisma (commentary), history and potential innovation.
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« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2015, 11:15:49 am »

My #1 would be Chapin, though.  I think he brings a great mixture of charisma (commentary), history and potential innovation.

I second this. He has a primarily standard focused podcast that I listen to despite having no desire to ever play standard for the rest of my life on this Earth. He's downright hilarious at times and can blend an insightful Magic related thought to an obscure TMNT reference without losing his stride. He has at times on that cast made it known that he abhors MODO though -- somebody might need to really push him.  

How about Richard Garfield (hey ... you can try) ... ?

That being said I'd be sad to see any of the current roster go. None of them really irritate me, commentary has been super also with a nice balance of sweet and salty. LSV is always good having done it semi-professionally. David Williams has been good as well, he has insight, he's also genuinely excited about watching the matches unfold. Kai brings a perfect dry biting sarcasm to the cast. Everyone jabbing Steve has become ingrained in the commentary at this point and I think I'd miss it :p Bob is awesome and is one of the most friendly engaging Magic 'stars' you'll ever meet, he's at Gencon every year (busy) and I've never ever seen him turn down a request to sign a confidant and stop and talk and thank the person asking for his signature. Chris is also awesome, he's pretty grounded, has a good history with the game and I really enjoy his commentary after he plays, he's always got every decision he made in his frontal lobe and he's the first person to second guess himself.

« Last Edit: March 18, 2015, 11:23:58 am by nedleeds » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2015, 11:27:15 am »

definitely Pat Chapin
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« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2015, 11:37:11 am »

1 Mark Tocco. For that matter, I think any current Vintage World Champ should have a standing invite to the VSL.
2 Roland Chang. I appreciate the contributions of the Forinos to Shops (scratch that: I, personally, do not. I lose too much to their builds!), but I think Roland has had more high profile success of late, and is also a well known name in Vintage. Also, top 8'd the last champs.
3 Chapin. High profile name, would probably be good on commentary.
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Smmenen
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« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2015, 12:14:34 pm »

I can think of several members of the Vintage community that I would love to see, several of which have already been named.

My #1 would be Chapin, though.  I think he brings a great mixture of charisma (commentary), history and potential innovation.

Would be my vote for sure.

Patrick has been a long time Vintage/Type I aficionado, and is an amazing personality, as well as a HOFer. 
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« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2015, 12:46:11 pm »

+1 for Patrick Chapin and Caleb Durwald
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Varal
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« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2015, 01:28:26 pm »

1 Mark Tocco. For that matter, I think any current Vintage World Champ should have a standing invite to the VSL.
2 Roland Chang. I appreciate the contributions of the Forinos to Shops (scratch that: I, personally, do not. I lose too much to their builds!), but I think Roland has had more high profile success of late, and is also a well known name in Vintage. Also, top 8'd the last champs.
3 Chapin. High profile name, would probably be good on commentary.

I think Chapin won the Vintage Champs when it was at Gen Con.

My picks would be:

1-Jon Finkel, it would be awesome to have Maher vs Finkel and not just in the color commentary
2-Reid Duke, he did well at champs 2013 and he makes great MODO videos
3-Mike Long, he has a vintage deck with his name and he's almost in the HOF

If I had to pick a brewer it would be Adrian Becker, the guy is awesome, or crazy, to get good results with crazy brews with Survival of the Fittest or Genesis Chamber.
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« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2015, 01:35:27 pm »


I think Chapin won the Vintage Champs when it was at Gen Con.

My picks would be:
...
3-Mike Long, he has a vintage deck with his name and he's almost in the HOF

Please at least think before you post things.
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« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2015, 02:05:10 pm »

1. David Ochoa
2. Owen Turtenwald
3. Roland Chang

Roland has been mentioned, and would be awesome for obvious reasons. Ochoa and Turtenwald are both long time Vintage players who also have established reputations as pros. Owen is also a previous Vintage World Champion.
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« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2015, 02:10:21 pm »


I think Chapin won the Vintage Champs when it was at Gen Con.

My picks would be:
...
3-Mike Long, he has a vintage deck with his name and he's almost in the HOF

Please at least think before you post things.

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« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2015, 02:59:21 pm »

I'd love to see Ochoa give it a go, but I believe someone said he declined an offer to join because he felt it would take too much time.  I can't blame him for that.

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« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2015, 03:26:41 pm »

I know people will probably disagree, but I would love to see either Brian Kelly or Matt Murray play in the VSL. Both are very innovative with their deck choices and playstyles and I think that would give a nice touch to the VSL.
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« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2015, 03:42:54 pm »

I've noticed the VSL has reigned in some Vintage noobs on MTGO.  I'm very happy about this and am considering getting back into MTGO to take advantage.

I was watching someone on twitch last night, trying to get their goblin deck ready/looking for suggestions from the chat.  His maindeck was pretty terrible but I listed off a bunch of cards for the sideboard including the card Pyrokinesis.  His dismissive response was that "Pyrokinesis doesn't belong because this is Vintage"; he didn't think I had any knowledge of Vintage and the individual was completely oblivious to the fact that Pyrokinesis has been in Vintage Goblins forever.  At the same time, he was eager to put Tuktuk Scrapper, a terrible Vintage Goblins card, into his maindeck.

So not necessarily magic noobs, but people who just haven't been exposed to all the Vintage interactions that we all have here on TMD. 
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« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2015, 04:33:32 pm »

1) Mark Tocco.
-World Champ
-Proven record with a variety of archetypes
-Has successfully done commentary before (in Legacy)
-He's a local to my area, so I'm partial
-Everyone likes tacos

2) Any of the major tournament organizers (Calvin Hodges, Nick Coss, etc. )
-I feel that TO's/dealers are just as important as the players to keep Vintage thriving

3) Reid Duke
-Has many accolades as a Magic player
-As with most people on VSL, he's a versatile player when it comes to archetypes
-He could attract more people to Vintage



Honorable mention: Brian Kelly because he is a successful brewer. However, I feel that VSL looks for players with bigger stats (e.g. hall of famers or a lot of pro points). Also, players aren't on the mic when they duel so we wouldn't hear Brian maniacally laughing when he's casting something ridiculous.
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« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2015, 05:06:10 pm »

1. Paul Cheon/Kenji Egashira - Both are high profile members of the streaming community, and can provide great commentary alongside their strong audiences.  Either would be great, as they are essentially the same role.
2. Nick Coss - Nick's strong background in the format not only brings strong community support, but his skills with decks such as Minus 6 and Burning Oath would bring diversity to the VSL league.
3. Ryan Glackin - Perhaps the unsung hero of Vintage Champs, Glackin has top 8'd Champs three times with three entirely different decks (with entirely no color overlap!).  He's a dark horse in the community and is loved by all.
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« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2015, 06:44:00 pm »

1. Sean Obrien (nedleeds) - between his history and his frequently choosing to play less-popular null rod style decks, he'd certainly bring something new to the league. I know he's previously expressed hatred for MTGO but if they're giving god accounts to players, perhaps he could be swayed.

2. Caleb Durward - He's been streaming vintage on and off recently. Mostly he plays whacky re-creations of old decks. But he definitely knows what he's doing and often does quite well. I've thoroughly enjoyed watching him win in Vintage with Survival.

I came into this thread only thinking of those two but the other posts have reminded me of the last:

3. Pat Chapin - I don't actually enjoy his commentary that much but based on what I've seen of it, his near-encyclopedic knowledge of deck and card history is sure to bring a deck we haven't seen.

In the first VSL, they mentioned that no one had turned them down. I'm curious whether that's still the case. I'd imagine that their choice of timing and insistence on doing the matches live would make it quite hard for a working player to participate.

As much respect as I have for many of the great innovators of archetypes, VSL is not a format where I'm interested in seeing someone play a single archetype 9 weeks in a row.

With the already complex system they use, there's certainly room to add something to encourage new deck design. (EG, play a deck with more than x cards different from any previous deck, automatically get an extra match win thrown on to your record)

That being said I'd be sad to see any of the current roster go.

Disagree but only on one count. Refraining from further comment as that's not what this thread is about.
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« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2015, 08:18:06 pm »

Ari Lax basically wrote the most insightful Vintage article in all of 2014. If he had time, I'd like to see him play.

I like Chapin but wasn't he the guy that said Workshops were terrible in Vintage or something? If so, I hope he has put that notion behind him.
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tito del monte
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« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2015, 05:01:45 am »

Ari Lax basically wrote the most insightful Vintage article in all of 2014. If he had time, I'd like to see him play.

I like Chapin but wasn't he the guy that said Workshops were terrible in Vintage or something? If so, I hope he has put that notion behind him.

Ari Lax would definitely be good, although I imagine some viewers might find his style a little abrasive. That seemed to be the vibe coming off social media as he was romping to his PT win recently. But that's a personal taste thing - the guy can play and I agree, his look at Vintage in that article was incredibly perceptive. I think if it's one thing that's been very healthy for the format over the course of the VSL, it is the irreverence with which the pros have at times talked about the format. Sure, sometimes there are interactions they might be overlooking when they discuss a card or play or design choice, but I think over all it's good that they shoot down certain received wisdoms or joke about things that we, as a very invested hardcore Vintage crowd, sometimes treat like sacred cows.

Also, I remember Chapin making some pretty outlandish comments about Vintage, too - it may well have been Workshops. That said, I think he's shown himself to be a very humble and dedicated player over the past few years, who has consciously broadened his range to perform better at the PT. That, to my mind suggests, that whatever he's said about the format in the past, he would be take a fresh, open-minded approach to it were he involved. It would be very exciting to see what he came up with.

Another HoFer to bear in mind might be Olle Rade - I know he's been playing online and buying back into paper Vintage, too. He plays all the formats and I have to say, he blew my mind with his Snake Basket invitational deck at the time. Really, it was a proto-Storm deck before the mechanic existed and was just busted as hell! Good times! Smile

As an aside, this thread did make me wonder about some of the Vintage players/writers of the past. Does anyone know what the likes of Matt Elias, Crazy Carl and hey, even Oscar Tan are up to these days? Have they been enticed back by Vintage Modo?
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« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2015, 08:43:03 am »

1. Keith Grim / Rob Edwards / Shawn Griffiths / Tom Dixon -- All of these players can play and succeed with any archetype. They would be able to switch it up in interesting ways after each trimester.
2. Brian Kelly / Matt Murray -- They can play the weirdest decks and do very well. Both would be hilarious AND insightful commentators.
3. Raff Forino / Fenton / Potucek / Ballester / Lim -- These are all masters of their respective archetypes. Having one slot for an expert per VSL would, I think, be valuable. After all, we have seen some people play the same archetype multiple trimesters in a row. (Honorable mention to Justin Kohler, who is sidelined by MTGO not being able to handle Auriok Salvagers).

« Last Edit: March 19, 2015, 09:54:57 am by rpf5029 » Logged

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« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2015, 11:00:46 am »

Brian Kelly. Guli. Storm. I wanna see more dudes that do more than make more dudes.
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« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2015, 11:31:36 am »

Another HoFer to bear in mind might be Olle Rade - I know he's been playing online and buying back into paper Vintage, too. He plays all the formats and I have to say, he blew my mind with his Snake Basket invitational deck at the time. Really, it was a proto-Storm deck before the mechanic existed and was just busted as hell! Good times! Smile

Olle Rade would be amazing, he was always an anti deck builder. Identifying the field then building to beat it (check out my army of 3 toughness turds oh field of Pyroclasm). My memory is choppy but I think the '97 invitational required quotas from expansions and I think the basket was just a nod to Visions. It was the crypt, vault, vise, prosp deck of the day tweaked to those rules ... the same deck that finally got crypt/vault/and briefly vise restricted. Another funny story was his first submitted card was like, "World of I Hate Abyss and Nether Void" it was a {R} Enchant World with no text  HAAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHA ... Storm World not good enough for Olle. Poor guy just wanted to Disenchant the Abyss for R so his Spiders could rampage.

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« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2015, 12:39:08 pm »

My 3 would be as below
1. Keith Seals ( mr. grim) he has such a knowledge of the format and has won and top 8'd events with almost every archetype in the past year+
2. Nick Coss as he has been such a great ambassador for the format and took on vintage champs.
3. Ryan Glackin, as stated above by psyburat he has done something few others have and top 8'd champs with 3 different decks.
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« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2015, 12:50:02 pm »

1. Ryan Glackin, for all the reasons stated above
2. Justin Kohler/Josh Potucek: A dedicated hard-control mage from the Northeast, with a league-wise gentleman's agreement that the game is won when Auriok Salvagers combo is assembled.  These two popularized their archetypes worldwide with consistent success.  They were responsible for marginalizing the loathed Tinker & Vault strategies in the northeast long before Gush & Treasure Cruise.  
3. Roland Chang/Nick DiJohn/Keith Seals: Shop experts with recent high success.  Each is friendly, confident without being arrogant, and able to communicate insightfully both about their own archetypes and the metagame at large.  
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« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2015, 01:08:10 pm »

1. Patrick Chapin (this guy is simply Mr. Magic. Fascinating guy and it would be interesting to see his take on Vintage)
2. Brian Kelly (this guy is like Mr. Vintage recently. I think he's become the Zen Master of this format in the past few months)
3. Roland Chang (he's like Mr. Shops)
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