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Author Topic: [ORG] Avaricious Dragon  (Read 6322 times)
MaximumCDawg
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« on: June 09, 2015, 12:48:35 pm »

In the time-honored spirit of making threads for tweaked Air Elementals, let's welcome Bob the Dragon to the mix.



Why make a thread about this card?  Well, partly it's been a slow spoiler season, what with Bad Reprints: The Gathering making all the headlines around GP Vegas.  But, also, this card has some similarities with others that are either playable or marginal already.

Bob's Tall Glass of OJ

So, Dark Confidant was a powerhouse in his day.  There were tournament reports that boiled down to talking about how a first turn Bob was game, and that was not far off.  He's fallen badly out of favor for aggressive Blue decks nowadays, but he's still very good.  

On the other side of the spectrum, Dragonlord Ojutai pops up in some decks, at least in the Vintage Online league.  (I remain convinced this occurs merely to spite me, but that's besides the point).  Like Ojutai, this Dragon represents a combination of card advantage and a quick clock with evasion.  

If Bob is playable (he is) and OJ is playable (he might be) then this Dragon is entitled to at least a discussion.  Like Bob and OJ, this Dragon represents both a win condition and a source of card advantage.  He's better than Bob if you want to run a deck with 4 casting cost cards, since it doesn't cost you life.  

The draw ability is kind of a wash with OJ; the latter lets you dig deeper but also requires you to connect in order to get the benefit.  So, if there's something in the way, Dragon draws you a card regardless.

The downside is the big deal, of course.  He's worse than both OJ and Bob in a control shell because he Hell-bends you over each end step.  You can't just accumulate resources to protect him as he beats down, at least without hijinks (more to come).  

Similarly, the casting cost is tricky.  It's harder than Bob, and probably about as expensive as OJ.  While it's in a good color, getting to RR is probably harder than getting to UW, so the difference between 4 and 5 is probably a wash.  

Finally, he is a slightly slower clock, taking one more turn to deal 20 damage.  

(OJ's protection isn't worth a hill of beans; we play instant speed removal or Toxic Deluge.  So I'm not really even thinking about that.)

Good Red Cards No One Plays

They've been really pushing card draw into Red lately, and this card is only the latest.  Chandra, Pyromaster is an amazing card that no one cares about because by the time you're paying 2RR for a walker, you have to explain why you're not running Jace / Dack instead.  Red has a ton of Night's Whisper's with downside, and some very interesting card draw like Aggressive Mining and Prophetic Flamespeaker.  It is only a matter of time before one of the Red draw spells breaks.  Not that this one is that card, but it's another dent in the armor.

We have such a huge glut of red draw spells, though, that one wonders if there is a deck here.  Can we experiment with a mono-red build, like Dragon Stompy, where every card draws cards?  Is the advantage real?  

Hijinks

Dragon can't jam into a Delver shell, no, because he basically tells the control role to go sit on a tack.  You dump this, you are jamming spells.  But he has some interesting combinations with other cards.

Sundial of the Infinite - Avoid his downside by ending your turn with Dragon's trigger on the stack.  This also combos well with terrible Time Walks like Final Fortune, or with Smokestack.  (Ramp it up and end the turn with stack's sac trigger on the stack).  Could there be an application for some kind of combo-ish Red shops?  Someone tried this nonsense in Legacy with White Stacks, as I recall.

Donate - If you can manage to give the Dragon to your opponent each turn and then get it back, you can Hellbend their hand while drawing more cards.  Donate or Bazaar Trader will get him over there, and work well with Blood Funnel or old school stuff like Illusions of Grandeur.  Stingscourger gets him back after he bends them, and blinking Sower can control where he goes when.  This is probably too much work.

Dragon Stompy - Before we got werewolves and flamespeakers and whatever, we used Hellbent with Rackdos Dragon and that morph-dude to get the job done.  This slots right into that kind of build.

Conclusion

This card is probably not playable in an existing shell, but is close enough to Bob and OJ that I would not be surprised to see it doing something in a rogue list somewhere.  However, since I'm still skeptical of OJ, and OJ is probably better in typical Vintage decks, I'm not holding my breath.

Pictures help.
-MM
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 01:05:26 pm by Meddling Mike » Logged
Meddling Mike
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« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2015, 01:03:37 pm »



I don't think that putting this card on wheels and making it so you can't cast it off workshop makes it any better.
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MaximumCDawg
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« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2015, 01:14:39 pm »

That's not entirely fair.  Remember, Bob has a leg-less version too, and that card sees no play while Bob does (did?)

It's a good comparator, sure, but it doesn't dismiss the entire card.  Sometimes being able to swing for 4 in the air makes an unplayable effect playable.  The advocates of OJ sure seem to think so.

EDIT: Thanks for fixing picture, too.
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Chill79
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« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2015, 02:45:51 pm »

Maybe in red burn decks as card advantage/beatstick Very Happy Very Happy....

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« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2015, 02:48:36 pm »

It's no Dragonlord Sad
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« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2015, 05:04:55 pm »

Is no dragonlord. First of all, dragonlord has protection before it attacks, and then you can be untapped and defend it. It's a quicker beater, pitches to fow, and does not only draw, it filters! And well, does not force you to discard Lots of advantages, tbh. So what can make avaricious dragon interesting?

-One less mana. This is, by far, the most interesting point.
-Can work with discard mechanics. But of course, not when you choose, since it demands to discard ENTIRE HAND each turn.

Where would I play it? Dragon stompy legacy decks seem the best prepared for sure, in fact this card seems specially created for them. A hellbent deck is another approach, with priest of urabrask, burning tree emisary, jagged poppet... but then you have a pauper deck, not a vintage deck XD

Does not seem vintage playable outside monored decks, or related decks. Quick deploy of menaces, trying to hate everything, and play this dragon as a finisher/gas.

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vaughnbros
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« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2015, 09:48:19 pm »

If monored is a deck this is a probably a card.  4 of these and 4 prophetic flamespeaker seems like a solid top end.  Draw engines are not the primary problem with that deck though.  A terrible oath MU is a pretty big deathnail.
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NosferatuStuff
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« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2015, 10:24:03 pm »

 {R} plus extra draw plus put monsters in the graveyard seems like some serious synergy with Goblin Welder.  Or some sort of past in flames ritual combo.
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« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2015, 12:18:22 am »

If you can weld in Cages and Spines/Duplicants the Oath matchup is not that bad. The real question though is if you would rather play Skullcap than this dragon in such a deck.

Flamespeaker is definitely intriguing in a Welder deck though, since he synergizes so well with Swords.
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« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2015, 01:11:53 am »

{R} plus extra draw plus put monsters in the graveyard seems like some serious synergy with Goblin Welder.  Or some sort of past in flames ritual combo.

Grafted Skullcap is just better plus you can cast it off Workshop and not have to have RR
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« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2015, 03:54:19 am »

Magus of the Moon deck. 8 Moon effects with Null Rod.
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« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2015, 04:12:23 am »

First off, I really like the card design - it's nice to see a card which just a seven-drop, with all upside.

Secondly, does this do anything for Madness? Perhaps in conjunction with Survival/Vengevine?

It's certainly a cool card, that I hope finds a home in some format somewhere. If we're talking mono-red, may I suggest this fabulous list as a starting point?
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=16772&iddeck=125679

Thundermaw still probably tons better....
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« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2015, 05:03:18 am »

Thundermaw is really different. Again, starting with the casting cost, and then the card ¿advantage?. Is somehow like comparing dark confidant with Juzam. Thundermaw is way better for the aggro plan, but comes later and does not help getting more resources. You can argue that if you have thundermaw you are already in a good shape and then you don't need other cards, but Avaricious can find a null rod, revoker, cage, artifact destruction... something to avoid losing (pretty important in TMWA and decks alike).
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« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2015, 12:27:45 pm »

Magus of the Moon deck. 8 Moon effects with Null Rod.

TMWA is really inconsistent right now -- blue decks are runnning disciplined manabases with multiple basics to fight Kuldotha Shops. I wouldn't play TMWA unless I knew a metagame was extremely Shops-infested.
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brianpk80
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« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2015, 01:29:08 pm »

Dragonlord Ojutai pops up in some decks, at least in the Vintage Online league.  (I remain convinced this occurs merely to spite me, but that's besides the point).

The new Vintage playable Dragonlords (Ojutai, Dromoka) have made five Top 8's combined in local events since DTK became legal as well appearances in MODO Dailies.  Ojutai helps UWR win through ungodly amounts of Mentor hate.  He's a good creature serving a planeswalker role effectively.  The excellence of Lord Ojutai has nothing to do with "spite."

This Red Dragon isn't exactly unplayable but I wish it had haste to help justify an inclusion. 
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« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2015, 04:03:15 am »

Why are we even talking about Grafted Skulhat when Coercive Portal has been out a year.
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Meddling Mike
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« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2015, 10:04:57 am »

Quote
Why are we even talking about Grafted Skulhat when Coercive Portal has been out a year.

I think I took one look at this card and mentally tl'dr'd it. You mean to tell me that they printed other cards in conspiracy that weren't Dack Fayden?
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