Steel City Vault 2.1

[Islandswamp]

I've been playing various decks with Goblin Welder in them for a while now. I absolutely love the card (even though I'm aware that it isn't as well-positioned as it was pre-Misstep). I love it so much that I looked for other decks besides Stax decks and Control Slaver decks to play it in. This lead me to Steel City Vault. There have been a few incarnations of this deck over the years, but the list that I based mine on I found in this article: http://www.starcitygames.com/article/29248_Steel-City-Vault-2-0.html

This deck and my control slaver list are both topics of my upcoming article. I think that this deck has some promise, so I wanted to start a discussion on it a little early. Here's what I have been playing:

2 Dack Fayden
4 Mana Confluence
1 Ponder
1 Gifts Ungiven
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Thoughtcast
2 Burning Wish
2 City of Brass
1 Imperial Seal
1 Memory Jar
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Vampiric Tutor
4 Force of Will
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Mox Pearl
1 Regrowth
1 Black Lotus
1 Time Walk
1 Mox Ruby
1 Timetwister
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Mox Jet
1 Sol Ring
4 Mox Opal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Lotus Petal
1 Time Vault
1 Mana Vault
1 Tinker
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Brainstorm
2 Goblin Welder
2 Voltaic Key
1 Fire/Ice
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Ancient Grudge

1 Void Snare
1 Vandalblast
1 Myr Battlesphere
2 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Nature's Claim
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Transmute Artifact
1 Mind Twist
1 Windfall
1 Balance
2 Flusterstorm

First of all, the deck is very explosive. I've never played blue Belcher, but I've sat across from it, and this deck plays out some of its hands in a similar fashion.  The wish board is actually really cool, and has been my only out to win a few games.

The problems with this deck are that it has almost no disruption (especially in game one). Also, it gets crushed by Null Rod, Stoney Silence, and well-played Chalice of the Voids. Hurkyl's Recall and some wish-targets have the potential to help, but it can be a real uphill battle. The deck only plays 11 land, if Shops is on the play and hits chalice for zero and/or one, lord help you.

Vandalblast - As awesome as overloading a Vandalblast would be, it suffers from having a converted mana cost of one even if it's overloaded. That means that Mental Misstep and more importantly Chalice on one make it essentially useless.

The original Mastriano build mentioned in the article has Ancient Grudge in the board, and one of the Nihil Spellbombs in the main deck. Due to the >20% metagame share that Shops takes up, I decided Ancient Grudge would be better in the main deck. Dredge isn't nearly as widely-played.

I don't think the sideboard is tough enough to fight dredge as it is anyway, so that should be worked on in my opinion.

One other idea I had was to take a hint from current TPS decks from MTGO and run Defense Grid in the deck (likely SB). It's an artifact, it helps with protecting our plan, and you can weld it back into play (or even out of play if you needed to).

I'll have more on this topic as time goes on, especially if anyone actually wants to discuss the deck. When it's hot, this deck feels radioactive. It also feels like playing a slot machine at times though, and that randomness and variance can be a drag!

Here's some links to some similar decks: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=17022&iddeck=127699
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=14571&iddeck=107688

[Smmenen]

There was alot of Steel City Vault variants in the Vintage Super League.  I played Angel City Vault in the last trimester of Season 1, and then a ton of other players did as well, including the Sin City Vault, and other versions.

Brian Demars played Steel City Vault in last year's Vintage Champs, too.  As did Paul.

[Islandswamp]

There was alot of Steel City Vault variants in the Vintage Super League.  I played Angel City Vault in the last trimester of Season 1, and then a ton of other players did as well, including the Sin City Vault, and other versions.

Brian Demars played Steel City Vault in last year's Vintage Champs, too.  As did Paul.

I had heard about that, and I tried finding the lists and didn't have much luck.

I am almost finished with Angel City vault too.
There's plenty of things that I don't know yet, as I only play online and I haven't been doing it for very long.

Do you like Angel City vault more? I haven't played enough to make a decision yet, but the mana base of Angel City vault seems much more stable versus wasteland decks.

My article about the deck came out today. It seems like more people are interested in the deck than I thought   

[Smmenen]

The lists are all posted on the Vintage Super League website (with links to the MTG.com site with the lists as well), as are the links to the video archive. 

The videos have extensive discussion with Efro and others on how to build The " " City Vault decks.

[WhiteLotus]

Notion thief is usually pretty good in Steel city vault variants that play draw 7s and dack fayden. Gives you another Game ending combo as well as being a potential Blowout answer to something like a brainstorm.

Force of will alone seems too little, either you want to play a 8-12 counterpackage either you go for a duress or defense grid threat heavy combo deck. As it is when playing draw7s you are liable to give your opponent a lot of cards you can't reliably deal with with only 4 forces.

Have you tested cruise and dig in the deck? You've got more than enough delve support to play 2 delve spells.

Why Ywill MD and not SB? seems odd with Burning wish to only find it when you need it without having a dead draw in the main.

I would encourage testing Preordain, it may not be brainstorm but Vintage decks need it and not having any will leave you disadvantaged vs the other blue decks that will all be playing it.

Sensei's divinning top absence seems odd, in a deck trying to get to take advantage off having a high artifact count, especially considering you already run multiple keys.

Tezzeret as a one of might me worth a shot as well. Even though it's generally bad vs all the creatures in the format, it wins the game on the spot with any other piece or tutor, and your deck already has a pretty nice density of them that you should only need one Tezzeret activation to get there.

Mystical tutor seems pretty bad in most decks atm since cda is extremely undesirable and neither Tinker or Yawgwill are as important as they used to be.

I wonder if Mindtwist in the wishboard wouldnt be much better replaced by thoughtseize.

my two cents

[Islandswamp]

Notion thief is usually pretty good in Steel city vault variants that play draw 7s and dack fayden. Gives you another Game ending combo as well as being a potential Blowout answer to something like a brainstorm.

Force of will alone seems too little, either you want to play a 8-12 counterpackage either you go for a duress or defense grid threat heavy combo deck. As it is when playing draw7s you are liable to give your opponent a lot of cards you can't reliably deal with with only 4 forces.

Have you tested cruise and dig in the deck? You've got more than enough delve support to play 2 delve spells.

Why Ywill MD and not SB? seems odd with Burning wish to only find it when you need it without having a dead draw in the main.

I would encourage testing Preordain, it may not be brainstorm but Vintage decks need it and not having any will leave you disadvantaged vs the other blue decks that will all be playing it.

Sensei's divinning top absence seems odd, in a deck trying to get to take advantage off having a high artifact count, especially considering you already run multiple keys.

Tezzeret as a one of might me worth a shot as well. Even though it's generally bad vs all the creatures in the format, it wins the game on the spot with any other piece or tutor, and your deck already has a pretty nice density of them that you should only need one Tezzeret activation to get there.

Mystical tutor seems pretty bad in most decks atm since cda is extremely undesirable and neither Tinker or Yawgwill are as important as they used to be.

I wonder if Mindtwist in the wishboard wouldnt be much better replaced by thoughtseize.

my two cents

That list I posted was taken from an article on SCG by Brian DeMars, and the list itself is attributed to Paul Mastriano. There are supposed to be two Misdirections in the sideboard, but I didn't have them at the time. I've been mostly playing a slightly modified version of that deck that I found on TC Decks.

I also finished Angel City Vault and I've been playing that too. I still need one more Misdirection though. That list has Dig Through Time x2 and Preordains in it.

I think your points are good ones. Just know that I decided to play the deck as-is for a while before making any changes based on preference.

[Chubby Rain]

ChubbyRain (3-1)

2 City of Brass
4 Mana Confluence
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Balance
1 Black Lotus
3 Dack Fayden
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
3 Mental Misstep
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
4 Mox Opal
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Narset Transcendent
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Preordain
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Thoughtcast
1 Time Vault
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Voltaic Key
1 Yawgmoth's Will


1 Mental Misstep
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Containment Priest
2 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Ingot Chewer
2 Nature's Claim
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Toxic Deluge

This is a deck that I threw together before the Daily last night and played to a 3-1 finish, beating Oath, Pyromancer, and Mentor, losing to Shops. Tezzeret is amazing in this list and most of the time, you don't even need Vault with him. Just +1 and swing for 20+. I really disliked the draw 7's as I felt that I was helping my opponent reload on counters far too often. Top + Key, max Thoughtcasts, and Dack were my primary source of CA/digging. Sideboard is a work in progress (as I kind of randomly threw it together) but again Tezz shines here...against Oath or Dredge, you can use him to pump out hate pieces until you feel you can grab Vault, protect it, and win that way.

[Islandswamp]

ChubbyRain (3-1)

2 City of Brass
4 Mana Confluence
4 Seat of the Synod
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Balance
1 Black Lotus
3 Dack Fayden
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
3 Mental Misstep
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
4 Mox Opal
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Narset Transcendent
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Preordain
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Thoughtcast
1 Time Vault
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Voltaic Key
1 Yawgmoth's Will


1 Mental Misstep
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Containment Priest
2 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Ingot Chewer
2 Nature's Claim
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Toxic Deluge

This is a deck that I threw together before the Daily last night and played to a 3-1 finish, beating Oath, Pyromancer, and Mentor, losing to Shops. Tezzeret is amazing in this list and most of the time, you don't even need Vault with him. Just +1 and swing for 20+. I really disliked the draw 7's as I felt that I was helping my opponent reload on counters far too often. Top + Key, max Thoughtcasts, and Dack were my primary source of CA/digging. Sideboard is a work in progress (as I kind of randomly threw it together) but again Tezz shines here...against Oath or Dredge, you can use him to pump out hate pieces until you feel you can grab Vault, protect it, and win that way.

This is similar to Steel City, and also similar to some other decks that I've seen being played. That's cool that you did well. I'm currently playing with Danny Batterman's Angel City Vault more often anyway.

I just picked up another Tezzeret so I could build this list too. If you'd like to play test some time, feel free to message me. As far as Draw7s go, yes they are risky and add a lot of variance. I don't think that they're always bad though. I've wondered if running some number of Defense Grid might be a good idea. I see storm decks use Grid, and it works well. You can play it on your combo turn, and they have to blow a counter on it otherwise they can't counter anything afterwards.

[serracollector]

Has Narset been of use? I was thinking about a list like yours but using Tezz 2.0 along side dack and narset for good draw and filtering. Seems really good w tops and thoughtcasts.

[Chubby Rain]

Has Narset been of use? I was thinking about a list like yours but using Tezz 2.0 along side dack and narset for good draw and filtering. Seems really good w tops and thoughtcasts.

Right now it's a fun-of. I'm testing it as a replacement for Jace as the deck is short on shuffle effects and Jace has had a real short life expectancy lately. If Narset is playable in any deck though, it's probably one with multiple tops, 11 lands, and 1 creature.

Also, technically 3-1'd yesterday's daily too with a similar list. Got paired down in the last round and the opponent didn't show up.

[Islandswamp]

Has Narset been of use? I was thinking about a list like yours but using Tezz 2.0 along side dack and narset for good draw and filtering. Seems really good w tops and thoughtcasts.

Right now it's a fun-of. I'm testing it as a replacement for Jace as the deck is short on shuffle effects and Jace has had a real short life expectancy lately. If Narset is playable in any deck though, it's probably one with multiple tops, 11 lands, and 1 creature.

Also, technically 3-1'd yesterday's daily too with a similar list. Got paired down in the last round and the opponent didn't show up.

Tezzeret was great. I kept my list mostly the same but squeezed in two Tezzeret the Seeker. It's just another bomb that must be answered, and the goal is to have and cast more bombs than the opponent can counter. Good idea to include it.

[ApolloGod]

Steel City has been a favorite deck of mine on MTGO. My list is similar to other lists posted. I run 1x Tezz. Inkwell is my creature of choice (seems better in the online meta.) I enjoy this deck because sometimes I like to run 1-of cards that I enjoy. For example, I use 1x Chromatic Sphere from time-to-time.

[mmcgeach]

ChubbyRain (3-1)
< deck with 6 planeswalkers and no basics >

Man, I love this list cause the walkers are like crack to me. Is Dack the best card in the format? (Yes.)  With seats of the synod and no basics, I'm not surprised you lost to shops.  Do you think it's a fixable matchup?  Or does the manabase just leave you structurally weak to their gameplan in a critical way?

[serracollector]

Would using Darksteel Citadel alongside Chromantic Lantern be a viable answer to Mud? Or is that too risky on the mana base?

[ApolloGod]

Would using Darksteel Citadel alongside Chromantic Lantern be a viable answer to Mud? Or is that too risky on the mana base?

I think it makes things a bit wonky. There are other 3-drops that I'd rather cast over chromatic lantern (wheel, tinker, twister, thirst, etc.) Under pressure from thorns and spheres, I'm more likely to cast an immediate bomb over chromatic lantern.

I've been in matches against MUD where my Seat (or City) gets hit by wasteland, and I'm under pressure from thorn and sphere effects, and/or a revoker is named on Chrome Mox (or some other mox.) I've come out from under that pressure by carefully sequencing my spells and turns so that I can either a.) Wish for Shattering Spree (or sometimes Vandalblast,), or b.) build up enough artifact acceleration and Hurkly's them.

In all of the matches I've played against MUD my immediate plan is to pump out as much artifact acceleration as possible and then Hurkyl's or Wish + Shattering. Under a chalice@0, I have to carefully sequence land drops to be able to cast Hurkyl's.

However, there are some scenarios against MUD that present a game that I cannot win, regardless of my hand. A board state of Lodestone + Chalice@0 + 2x Thorn effects + Wasteland is an excruciating lock. The deck is not designed to beat every possible permutation of MUD decks. It is, however, capable of overcoming the pressure via Hurkyl's or Wishing for the appropriate answer.

MUD is not an easy match-up on the draw, but it's certainly not un-winnable. In all of the scenarios I mentioned, I don't see chromatic lantern + Citadel changing the landscape enough to warrant their inclusion.

[p3temangus]

I have been playing around with a Steel City List lately and am fully torn between a 8ish card counter package (4 FoW, 2 misstep, 2 Spell Pierce) and an 8ish Card Defense Grid/Thoughtseize package.  It has to be a total metagame call right? If you are expecting shops, Pack your FoW's, if you expect to play against blue all day pack your Defense Grids.  I am of the opinion that you cant play both FoW and Defense Grid, magnified x1000 by the fact that these decks run 13 land tops. What do people feel about Defense Grid with Misstep, Fluster and/or Spell Pierce? Has anyone tried to SB 2-3 Defense Grids to bring in against decks like Standstill or permission heavy Mentor/Pyromancer Decks? If so, how has it worked out?

[WhiteLotus]

I have been playing around with a Steel City List lately and am fully torn between a 8ish card counter package (4 FoW, 2 misstep, 2 Spell Pierce) and an 8ish Card Defense Grid/Thoughtseize package.  It has to be a total metagame call right? If you are expecting shops, Pack your FoW's, if you expect to play against blue all day pack your Defense Grids.  I am of the opinion that you cant play both FoW and Defense Grid, magnified x1000 by the fact that these decks run 13 land tops. What do people feel about Defense Grid with Misstep, Fluster and/or Spell Pierce? Has anyone tried to SB 2-3 Defense Grids to bring in against decks like Standstill or permission heavy Mentor/Pyromancer Decks? If so, how has it worked out?

You are correct that Defense grid and Permission can't really coexist in the same deck. You can try a more controlling package of 8-11 counterspells Or a Fast combo approach with 2/3 Defense grid + 3/4 duress, depending on how much shops you expect. But IMO as soon as you are taking a control approach, Steel city vault doesn't make a lot of sense compared to Other time vault variants like Grixis, Tezzcast, Gifts, ...

Basically if you want to play something cool and you know that shops will be on the low side, Steel city vault with grid might be awesome (Although I don't think it's the best deck to take advantage of Defense grid). But as soon as you have to play in a metagame where you have to beat Shops and Blue decks at the same time, it puts the deck in a weird spot. It becomes forced to run counterspells which are more slot intensive and less efficient to set up a combo turn than Defense grid especially with draw7s. As a result the deck is dilluted, so less consistent while going off and has a lot more trouble actually going off vs blue decks.

Draw7s are awful when your opponent can draw a lot of efficient counterspells off them, the only real way to abuse draw7s is with Defense Grid (or Notion thief). So you'd probably just cut draw7s in your Controlish city vault deck and at that point you are just an Awkward Grixis build.

A thing might be said about taking advantage of the 5c manabase and Cavern of souls by running Monastery Mentor and replacing Defense grid with Grand Abolisher.

[msg67183]

I played a City Vault Variant with Grids for the third Trimester of The Mana Drain Vintage League, losing to Brian Kelly's Armored Dragon deck due to a misplay on my part, not cracking Memory Jar in response to his Dack stealing it, when I had Wish for Will in hand. I also lost to Stormanimagus going nuts with his Mentor list and drawing pretty luckily I feel.
The match I did win though was David Kaplan on FroBots, was a very interesting and intense match I feel. For details you can watch the YouTube videos from the streams online. As for the FroBots match, it wasn't streamed but I can say game one he crushed me because he won the roll. Game Two I went broken, playing turn one Dack into turn two wheel for Vault Key. Game Three I casted a timely Hurkyls to hardcast Sphinx of the Steel Wind to win the match.

[p3temangus]

I played a City Vault Variant with Grids for the third Trimester of The Mana Drain Vintage League, losing to Brian Kelly's Armored Dragon deck due to a misplay on my part, not cracking Memory Jar in response to his Dack stealing it, when I had Wish for Will in hand. I also lost to Stormanimagus going nuts with his Mentor list and drawing pretty luckily I feel.
The match I did win though was David Kaplan on FroBots, was a very interesting and intense match I feel. For details you can watch the YouTube videos from the streams online. As for the FroBots match, it wasn't streamed but I can say game one he crushed me because he won the roll. Game Two I went broken, playing turn one Dack into turn two wheel for Vault Key. Game Three I casted a timely Hurkyls to hardcast Sphinx of the Steel Wind to win the match.

Do you have a list you could share? I would be interested to take a look. 

[msg67183]

http://tmdvl.github.io/MG3-Crime-City-Vault/

[ApolloGod]

I've been trying the Defense Grid/Discard package. I like it much more than the counter package. I currently run 3x Defense Grid and 3x Discard (duress/thoughseize) main. My SB contains 1 additional Defense Grid and 1x Thoughtseize (an option for Wish.)

The online meta is blue/counter heavy, and Defense Grid is a must-answer card each time. I had a match last night in Tournament Practice in which I had 2x Defense Grid (opening hand, natural draw). The opponent FoW both and then he was basically top-deck mode. I didn't even need the Defense Grid on the board; they served an alternate purpose (eliminate countermagic threats.) I eventually won with vault/key.

[lizardking1545]

How does this list change with the unrestriction of Thirst for Knowledge?

[JACO]

How does this list change with the unrestriction of Thirst for Knowledge?

I think you're going to see a significant merging of Grixis decks that incorporate Thirst, Key-Vault, Notion Thief, and Dack Fayden. Thoughtcast, Tezzeret the Seeker, Repeal, Ancient Grudge, and Goblin Welder optional. There are tons of options, and tons of overlap, which is why it's difficult to predict exactly what one player or team is playtesting, but rest assured, tons of people are working on decks of this basic framework, and you can expect to see these strategies well represented in Top 8's over the next few months.

[ApolloGod]

How does this list change with the unrestriction of Thirst for Knowledge?

I run 3x Thirst. I cut mystical tutor and Gifts to make room. I also run Goblin Welder, but I'm not sure how much I'm liking it so far. In my testing (numerous matches in Tournament Practice, and some 2-man queues,) every time I could cast goblin welder, I wanted to do something else instead. Plus, in many match-ups welder either doesn't make it to the battlefield (misstep, et al.) or gets burned/bounced/StP. I'm considering putting Welder in the sideboard and bringing it in when the match up is more conducive.

I've also seen some lists running a counter package (force, pierce, whatever.) I'm still running a 3-1 Defense Grid split (3 main, 1 board.) Steel City has always been about jamming multiple threats in rapid succession. The threat density is high enough that the deck can eschew typical protection. I'm very aggressive when I play Steel City. I'll play anything until it sticks: Defense Grid, Thirst, Wheel, Timetwister, Key/vault, some tutor, Windfall, Wish for something, etc. I tend to choose lines of play quickly and just jam threats repeatedly. The play style can be a bit jarring for the opponent; they're always reacting to something.

To bring this full circle, I've been enjoying unrestricted Thirst. It's an all-star and it typically over performs.