[ORI] Day's Undoing

[fsecco]

Day's Undoing
2U
Sorcery
Each player shuffles his or her hand and graveyard into his or her library, then draws seven cards. If it's your turn, end the turn. (Exile all spells and abilities on the stack, including this card. Discard down to your maximum hand size. Damage wears off, and "this turn" and "until end of turn" effects end.)

So... is there any way Storm could kill instant speed? Quicken? If only Flash Hulk was unrestricted

[vaughnbros]

Leyline of Anticipation.

[fsecco]

Yeah I also thought of that. It's the only way, right? I mean, you can only kill the same turn you cast this if you cast it on your opponents turn. If you cast it during your turn, even with Leyline, you won't get to play any spells.

EDIT: this also works with Notion Thief, but I don't know how that makes it any better.

[gkraigher]

Isn't this card bonkers with the mono-blue chrome mox/mox opal deck?  

play a bunch of moxes, then twist away your hand (and graveyard against dredge) while your opponent can't take a mulligan.  

I really don't like the fact that they printed this card.  It's not lazy design, it is pretty well designed, it's the fact that we don't need more of these effects in the game that are blue for 3 mana. 

[MaximumCDawg]

Wow.  Now,  THIS is the way you print fixed versions of power and restricted list cards.  I love it.  Surgical in its attempt to be unbroken.   Between this and treasure cruise, someone is working overtime...

[Protoaddict]

I feel like this could lead to Wheel.Dec being a thing right? Tons of fast mana + Counters + Wheels + a win condition at some point?

[fsecco]

Yeah, and if that Belcher starts playing 4 Leyline of Anticipation maindeck...

[evouga]

Belcher with Leylines and this card (and Serum Powders?) would be an interesting brew, but I don't think this card does enough to shore up Belcher's fundamental weakness, which is that it auto-loses to Shops.

[fsecco]

Belcher with Leylines and this card (and Serum Powders?) would be an interesting brew, but I don't think this card does enough to shore up Belcher's fundamental weakness, which is that it auto-loses to Shops.

With 4 Leylines it kinda doesn't.

[xouman]

Notion and leyline seem the best approaches. I'd pack acceleration and free counters, but i'm sure that's pretty obvious.

[p3temangus]

Actually watched a guy in a close game 2 weeks ago EOT flash in notion thief then cast timetwister and win the game with that +14 card advantage.  I can see this being tested in some steel city vault type deck running 3 copies of notion thief.  +14 cards most combo decks should be able to set up a win on the next turn with an opponent in top deck mode. 

[bactgudz]

Seems to me the reason why this might actually be so enormously powerful in a leyine of anticipation deck is that it actually becomes twister+time walk there...you don't need to be some dedicated belcher combo deck to abuse that nonsense, it's just ghastly sick.

nevermind, I need to learn to read, dang you wotc caught the bug.

[schof]

I had the same first thought about this, that its a new twister for belcher, especially with leylines. I also thought about notion thief's interaction, but more so for legacy in grixis theifs/pyromancer.

But then I started just thinking of this as a big draw spell. So after dumping your hand on things like a bazillion artifacts or some early threats. I think it has potential there as well. 

I like the discussion here about moving leyline to the maindeck for belcher to have better shops matchups. That seems useful and cool. And pulls the deck in a slightly new direction I suppose. I think at the least this beckons a new SB strategy against shops.

[PETER FLUGZEUG]

Yeah, and they're discussing if the card is good enough for modern over at the mtgsalvation boards...
"But you have to end the turn after this, so your opponent gets to cast spells first with his new hand" kind of arguments.

In regard to notion shenanigans: My brother has a deck with 3 notion thiefs for quite some time now and it's absurd. On top of winning with 14 cards to 0, your opponent gets 1 TILT emblem. With this card though, you only get the 7 best out of 14 while your opponent has 0, so there is only 1/2 Tilt emblem involved.

the real question is: Is the card needed for that deck? I'm unsure, because you run wheel and twister and dacks already and it is worse than the other two draw7s. I think it's more for some update on the academy belcher list, possibly with leyline of anticipation. But I could be wrong, have to ask him.

[gkraigher]

this card is probably terrible in modern for those exact reasons.  in vintage, it's going to see play because more you can play:

4 mox diamond
4 chrome mox
4 mox opal
1 sapphire
1 jet
1 pearl
1 emerald
1 ruby
1 lotus
1 lotus petal
1 lion's eye diamond
4 siminan spirit guides
4 elvish spirit guides

while in modern you can only play:
4 mox opal (and it's strictly less powerful in absence of the other free artifact cards)
4 simian spirit guides

there is no way for modern to exploit this card.  but i'll leave that debate up to their forums.  Here, we only care about Vintage.  

[Protoaddict]

Legacy also gets

4 Mox Diamond
4 Mox Opal
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lions eye Diamond
4 Simian Sprit Guide
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

But I guess the real question is what do you do with all that. Belcher?

[evouga]

The problem is that playing this card is very dangerous, except T1 on the play and when you control Leyline or Thief.

That sounds too conditional to me... even with Serum Powders Dredge often has to decimate their starting hand to find Bazaar... How likely is it to find this and Leyline together in the early turns?

[serracollector]

Legacy also gets four brainstorm and the miracle time walk. Casting a time walk then this obv has potential.

[TheWhiteDragon]

This guy could see some potential in vintage in a wheel deck, but since twister is marginally used as is and we already have lots of draw-7 effects, i doubt it.

As mentioned, it is being talked about for modern.  U-affinity basically just did a happy dance.  Turn 1 citadel, ornithopter, mox opal, memnite, springleaf drum, cranial plating.  Turn 2 glimmervoid, equip and swing, drop this bomb...yes please. Repeat up to 4 times in a deck?  That smells broken.

[WhiteLotus]

This card is garbage for Vintage. Windfall is already borderline playable nowadays, but a draw 7 that does exactly the opposite of what it's supposed to do seems just pathetic. It's also weird that some people think that adding more worse combo enablers is going to make combo decks better. Combo decks aren't struggling because of Raw power or Consistency issues.

I could be wrong (keeping in mind how grossly underestimated the delve spells were), but I expect this card to see little to no competitive play in vintage, probably only in the beginning and by people trying to innovate.

As usual r&d doesn't shy away from printing broken creatures like Griselbrand or Monastery Mentor, but when it comes to spells for combo decks...

[gkraigher]

Combo decks aren't struggling because of Raw power or Consistency issues.

the belcher decks that run diminishing returns run the risk of exiling their win con. 

[covetousrat]

This card is good...

Heres a mono blue belcher with it.

1 tropical island

4 Leyline of Anticipation
1 tinker
1 timetwister
4 Days undoing
1 time walk
1 ponder
1 windfall
1 treasure cruise
4 gitaxian probe
1 ancestral recall
1 brainstorm
1 mystical tutor

4 simian spirit g
4 elvish s g
4 land grant
1 wheel of fortune

4 chrome mox
4 mox opal
5 mox
1 black lotus
1 mana crypt
1 sol ring
1 mana vault
1 lotus petal
1 lions eye diamond
4 goblin charbelcher
1 memory jar
1 grim monolith

No defense or whatsoever. Maybe Defense Grid is a good option.

[WhiteLotus]

Combo decks aren't struggling because of Raw power or Consistency issues.

the belcher decks that run diminishing returns run the risk of exiling their win con. 

Anyone in their right mind would know that if you want to attack the metagame from a combo angle, there are about 1001 better choices than playing a very fragile deck like Belcher. Wwhat you said has literally nothing to do with either Raw power or Consistency? And mono blue belcher usually runs 5 wincons anyway so the odds of them exiling all their wincons seems pretty low even with multiple Diminishing returns.

[gkraigher]

Anyone in their right mind would know that if you want to attack the metagame from a combo angle, there are about 1001 better choices than playing a very fragile deck like Belcher.

Kai Budde and Randy Buehler, two hall of fame players, would disagree.  

Wwhat you said has literally nothing to do with either Raw power or Consistency?

What I said is the direct definition of raw power and consistency.   replace a 4 mana card that has a chance of removing your win con, with a 3 mana card (raw power) with no chance of removing your win con (consistancy).

i didn't realize i had to explain every single step in the process, i made an assumption that you'd understand short cuts in my logic and draw similar conclusions.  

And mono blue belcher usually runs 5 wincons anyway so the odds of them exiling all their wincons seems pretty low even with multiple Diminishing returns.

low, yes.  a worthy risk, yes.  a zero probability, absolutely not.  

exiling your wincon in a 59 card deck, with 5 win cons (i'm pretty sure it's only 4)  is extremly low, but it is a non-zero number.

just like playing oath of druids and only running 1 creature carries the risk of decking yourself.  it's an acceptable risk, but a risk none the less.  

It's also improbable to lose 7 coin flips in a row to mana crypt (1/128, less than 1%) but I've managed to do just that in tournament play.  You know why it happened, it's because it's a non-zero event.  

[bactgudz]

Anyone in their right mind would know that if you want to attack the metagame from a combo angle, there are about 1001 better choices than playing a very fragile deck like Belcher.

Kai Budde and Randy Buehler, two hall of fame players, would disagree.  

Wwhat you said has literally nothing to do with either Raw power or Consistency?

What I said is the direct definition of raw power and consistency.   replace a 4 mana card that has a chance of removing your win con, with a 3 mana card (raw power) with no chance of removing your win con (consistancy).

And mono blue belcher usually runs 5 wincons (i'm pretty sure it's only 4) anyway so the odds of them exiling all their wincons seems pretty low even with multiple Diminishing returns.

low, yes.  a worthy risk, yes.  a non-zero probability, absolutely not.  

exiling your wincon in a 59 card deck, with 5 win cons is extremly low, but it is a non-zero number.

just like playing oath of druids and only running 1 creature carries the risk of decking yourself.  it's an acceptable risk, but a risk none the less.  

Consulting for a singleton, dieing to bob or crypt, oathing to empty, and diminishing out are all acceptable risks in the right build

[gkraigher]

4 Leyline of Anticipation
.....
No defense or whatsoever. Maybe Defense Grid is a good option.

The interation between defense grid and leyline of anticipation is not a good one.  

[evouga]

Kai and Randy played the deck in a series of exhibition matches with a very unusual metagame.

It would be madness to bring a deck to real tournament that auto-loses to 40+% of the field.

[gribdogs]

The only possible application I have heard discussed so far is Modern Affinity.  Everything else is just jank supporting jank.  Having played many flavors, and formats, of Affinity, a 4-of draw 7 would be quite helpful.  However, Vintage already has an abundance of useful draw 7s that don't have drawbacks.  Hence, why this card may only be useful in Modern.  I guess we'll see how it all pans out.  Brew away!

[ben_berry]

Here's my brew.

8. Cast Timewalk
9. Cast Day's Undoing
10. Profit

I'm starting at step 8 because at 5 mana and Timewalk you've already won.

[MaximumCDawg]

Man, you guys are thinking too hard.  Remember what made a lot of the old powerhouse cards like this so good?  Breaking the symmetry.  Cards like Balance seem okay in a vacuum, but when you consider that they only get played when they will maximize the advantage to the casting player, they are broken.  Wheel of Fortune has never been any different, and Days Undoing does the same thing.  That's what Affinity does with it.  Dump your hand, and reload while forcing your opponent to mulligan. 

Now, of course they've tweaked this Time Walk ever so slightly to remove your tempo advantage from casting yet.  Yeah, that matters, and yea, that makes it not as good as Time Walk.  But we now have an unrestricted card that allows you to reload all players hands for 3 mana.  That's really powerful, and I think people in this thread are on the right idea while Blue Belcher.