TheManaDrain.com
September 05, 2025, 07:12:35 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: [Free Article] The Tech Must Flow - Spice from Vintage Champs 2015  (Read 2387 times)
ajfirecracker
Basic User
**
Posts: 124



View Profile Email
« on: September 01, 2015, 10:12:12 pm »

Hi all!

I have a new free article up on EternalCentral highlighting some of the interesting results from Champs.

Monored Workshops, Hangarbacks in unexpected places and more!

Check it out here: http://www.eternalcentral.com/the-tech-must-flow-spice-from-vintage-champs-2015/
Logged

kingneckbeard on MTGO

"I fully believe that if Dredge could play a transformational sideboard it would just win all the tournaments yet it just doesn’t have one because there is just nothing that it can play. It’d be awesome to completely ignore all those very specific hate cards people bring against you but how are you going to do that?" - Paulo Vitor Damo da Rosa
Islandswamp
Tournament Organizers
Basic User
**
Posts: 328


MTGGoldfish Writer


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2015, 05:29:48 am »

I'll be sure to read this after work, I'm always glad to see more content.
Logged

Check out my articles @ www.mtggoldfish.com  www.puremtgo.com Follow me on Twitter: @josephfiorinijr - Watch me make EPIC PUNTS on Twitch.TV @ http://www.twitch.tv/josephfiorini06

Just like a car crash,
Just like a knife.
My favorite weapon
is the look in your eyes.
You've run out of lies...
xouman
Basic User
**
Posts: 1082


View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2015, 07:35:03 am »

Nice article! I realized the Hangarbacks in mud lists (from Rich and Paul), but I hadn't look closely to non top-8 lists. Hangarback after a nice drain (targetting a fow, or a DTT) can be huge for Ritter's list.
Logged
inkmothnexus
Basic User
**
Posts: 33


Dredge Guy


View Profile Email
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2015, 09:06:05 am »

Another important quality of ring is that multiples synergize. Every dredge player has had hands with multiple removal spells and no colored mana source. A hand with 2 rings means 1 is live, and so is that chewer too. As soon as you draw a ring you have 11 other red sources in the deck to find, as opposed to 8 if we were playing any other card. Even for casting non-chewer hate, it still pays for spheres. Playing it over sudden shock also means that we can afford to trim fields against non-wasteland decks, as the deck doesn't need any colorless mana to cast hate.
Logged

Sullivan Brophy

NYSE III champion, vintage champs 2015 top 4.
msg67183
Basic User
**
Posts: 929



View Profile Email
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2015, 12:09:45 pm »

Another important quality of ring is that multiples synergize. Every dredge player has had hands with multiple removal spells and no colored mana source. A hand with 2 rings means 1 is live, and so is that chewer too. As soon as you draw a ring you have 11 other red sources in the deck to find, as opposed to 8 if we were playing any other card. Even for casting non-chewer hate, it still pays for spheres. Playing it over sudden shock also means that we can afford to trim fields against non-wasteland decks, as the deck doesn't need any colorless mana to cast hate.

Another advantage Ring has over Sudden Shock is you can dredge it to the yard and either Petrified Field it back, or in my case, Sun Titan it back. Ring also helps in casting Sun Titan against Containment Priest, although it still won't happen frequently.
Logged

Bloomsburg Tournaments:

1 Win
3 Finals
2 Top 4
2 Top 8

Outside Bloomsburg:

Winter Grudge Match lV Top 4

Creator of The Mana Drain Vintage League.

Website for The League:

http://tmdvl.github.io

Zombies ate your brains!
Bips
Basic User
**
Posts: 23


View Profile Email
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2015, 01:38:20 pm »

Another important quality of ring is that multiples synergize. Every dredge player has had hands with multiple removal spells and no colored mana source. A hand with 2 rings means 1 is live, and so is that chewer too. As soon as you draw a ring you have 11 other red sources in the deck to find, as opposed to 8 if we were playing any other card. Even for casting non-chewer hate, it still pays for spheres. Playing it over sudden shock also means that we can afford to trim fields against non-wasteland decks, as the deck doesn't need any colorless mana to cast hate.

Another advantage Ring has over Sudden Shock is you can dredge it to the yard and either Petrified Field it back, or in my case, Sun Titan it back. Ring also helps in casting Sun Titan against Containment Priest, although it still won't happen frequently.

I can inmagine scenario's where you want to deal damage to a source, but your opponent has played Rest in Peace, Leyline, Tormod's and the like or even Trap and you wouldn't have Threshold. Sudden Shock doesn't have that problem.
On the other hand I don't know many decks that play a combination of graveyard sweepers AND a creature you want to kill... Maybe Leyline & Jailer and RiP & Priest are the most common combinations...

I guess my question is: Did any of you ever had a situation where you weren't able to activate Ring where you wanted/needed to?
Logged
msg67183
Basic User
**
Posts: 929



View Profile Email
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2015, 02:08:07 pm »

Another important quality of ring is that multiples synergize. Every dredge player has had hands with multiple removal spells and no colored mana source. A hand with 2 rings means 1 is live, and so is that chewer too. As soon as you draw a ring you have 11 other red sources in the deck to find, as opposed to 8 if we were playing any other card. Even for casting non-chewer hate, it still pays for spheres. Playing it over sudden shock also means that we can afford to trim fields against non-wasteland decks, as the deck doesn't need any colorless mana to cast hate.

Another advantage Ring has over Sudden Shock is you can dredge it to the yard and either Petrified Field it back, or in my case, Sun Titan it back. Ring also helps in casting Sun Titan against Containment Priest, although it still won't happen frequently.

I can inmagine scenario's where you want to deal damage to a source, but your opponent has played Rest in Peace, Leyline, Tormod's and the like or even Trap and you wouldn't have Threshold. Sudden Shock doesn't have that problem.
On the other hand I don't know many decks that play a combination of graveyard sweepers AND a creature you want to kill... Maybe Leyline & Jailer and RiP & Priest are the most common combinations...

I guess my question is: Did any of you ever had a situation where you weren't able to activate Ring where you wanted/needed to?

At Champs I lost to John Grudzina on his Moat Control list in Round 3. The issue wasn't not having Threshold but instead he played a Pithing Needle on Barbarian Ring, which is a thing I guess. If I wouldn't have preemptively destroyed his Moat with an evoked Wispmare, he wouldn't have killed me with Containment Priest beats. Needle on Ring does allow you to use Bazaar to dig though.
Logged

Bloomsburg Tournaments:

1 Win
3 Finals
2 Top 4
2 Top 8

Outside Bloomsburg:

Winter Grudge Match lV Top 4

Creator of The Mana Drain Vintage League.

Website for The League:

http://tmdvl.github.io

Zombies ate your brains!
Islandswamp
Tournament Organizers
Basic User
**
Posts: 328


MTGGoldfish Writer


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2015, 03:51:13 pm »

Nice work! As important as top-eight appearances are, to neglect decks that finished highly but outside of the top eight does a disservice to us all.  I bet a lot of these decks could have finished higher with a small change in the way things went.

The Blue Moon decks are pretty cool, I wonder how well Keranos performed.
Logged

Check out my articles @ www.mtggoldfish.com  www.puremtgo.com Follow me on Twitter: @josephfiorinijr - Watch me make EPIC PUNTS on Twitch.TV @ http://www.twitch.tv/josephfiorini06

Just like a car crash,
Just like a knife.
My favorite weapon
is the look in your eyes.
You've run out of lies...
inkmothnexus
Basic User
**
Posts: 33


Dredge Guy


View Profile Email
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2015, 09:21:39 pm »


I guess my question is: Did any of you ever had a situation where you weren't able to activate Ring where you wanted/needed to?

top 8 game 2 feature match. the only dredger I saw all game pitched to ichorid to kill a jace, so I never had threshold and a ring.
Logged

Sullivan Brophy

NYSE III champion, vintage champs 2015 top 4.
Ritter
Basic User
**
Posts: 13


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2015, 08:59:35 am »

Nice article! I realized the Hangarbacks in mud lists (from Rich and Paul), but I hadn't look closely to non top-8 lists. Hangarback after a nice drain (targetting a fow, or a DTT) can be huge for Ritter's list.

I found a new best friend in Hangarback. Draining into it is awesome, but the highlight all day was just grabbing it with Trinket Mage and assembling a small army to put pressure on the board and protect Dack and Jace.

Whereas a shop player wants to either be playing lock pieces or swinging really hard to the face, in my list, Hangarback was more of a deterrent. It came down with 1 or 2 counters, and played defense while growing slowly over the course of the midgame. After seeing Paul Mastriano and Brian DeMars playing their forgemaster lists at GenCon, I knew that Hangarback was powerful, but might need a better shell in general. I'm not much of a shop player, but it seemed to be a real fine Trinket Mage target in a deck that can afford to let it grow.

Quote
Nice work! As important as top-eight appearances are, to neglect decks that finished highly but outside of the top eight does a disservice to us all.  I bet a lot of these decks could have finished higher with a small change in the way things went.

The Blue Moon decks are pretty cool, I wonder how well Keranos performed.

Brian DeMars and I ended up fighting for 9th place in the last round. I always try to look down the lists for anything that might be interesting because like you said, little changes in the way things worked out could have made for a very different top 8.

Keranos and Consecrated Sphinx shared the same basic slot in the list. When you need a game breaking card that provides a ton of card advantage and can help stabilize any shaky situations, 2 card slots is enough. The general Blue Moon lists don't run black for DT or VT, and no Tinker for a bot, so it was important that whatever cards I did run fit into the style of the deck:
1. Pitch to FoW
2. Are castable without needing an off color moxen or lotus
3. Are either hard to kill or provide card advantage before the opponent's first main phase.

Sphinx had been a staple of the build, but I wanted something that was easier to cast under a Blood Moon (yes, almost every game that I lost involved me not having double blue under a Blood Moon), and came out a little bit faster.

Keranos did exactly what I expected and was never a disappointment. Against shops, it snuck under thorns and went on to bolt down a whole board and draw me lands. I had a shop opponent sit there and look at his hand, questioning whether or not to call a judge. I offered the piece of wisdom that Keranos is not a creature until the correct devotion symbols are in play, and therefore cannot be Duplicanted or Metamorphed. We asked a judge anyway, but that Keranos never left play.

Against control, Keranos came down and straight up killed people. Mana Crypt rolls, Fetchland activations, pitching to FoW, getting slammed in the face by a Trinket Mage...  all these points of damage add up, and more than one control player lost a game to Keranos bolts to the face with not a single removal spell for it in their entire deck or sideboard.

As things go, new and powerful tech will sometimes be just the thing you need to take an already powerful list to the next level. I don't know how much better my list was for my spice, but Hangarback and Keranos felt great all day.

- Ritter
Logged
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.032 seconds with 18 queries.