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Author Topic: Suggestions For Improving the Online Vintage Experience  (Read 10229 times)
The Atog Lord
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« Reply #60 on: October 12, 2015, 06:10:48 pm »

Awesome!!
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« Reply #61 on: October 12, 2015, 10:41:27 pm »

yeah, but Tribet, its 5 AM somewhere in the world every hour of the day. Its impossible to have an online tournament convenient for everyone. 5 AM should at least be manageable for you; just wake early. Its 8 AM Saturday for me; which is perfect timing. I also highly doubt there is anyone in my time zone playing in the tournament.
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« Reply #62 on: October 13, 2015, 03:17:26 am »

Seriously, I've done 1 daily in my whole life, that's how bad it is. My point is more than valid.

It's very true to state that, by default, these tournaments are always set for USA customers. Of course, I don't know the exact market shares, etc... for each part of the world so I assume they have good reasons to do this. But, it's an online game so I found it illogical to give up so easily on the rest of the world.

It changes a little throughout the year with daylight saving, etc... but right now, I'm pretty sure the current time difference is as follows:
- California: 0h (pst time)
- New York: +3h
- Paris: +9h
- Hong-Kong/Singapore/Malaysia: +15h
- Sydney: +18h

So assuming that 6am on Saturday or Sunday is "manageable" (screw 5am), how about they try a quaterly schedule as follows:

Highlighted in red are I believe the unreasonable times. In this example, I favoured US East Coast (they're not missing any tourney) but my point is that it is not hard to schedule events in such a way that you can overlap reasonably 3 continents at any given time. So far, it's just been laziness when scheduling and it could be as simple as the MTGO event team simply having no idea how our round world functions (seriously some people don't travel a lot and just have no idea).

The trap is that US events should generally be scheduled on a Saturday to allow the rest of the world to be able to play on their Sunday. If you start scheduling US events on a Sunday than there is a risk that it is nearly Monday everywhere else in the world. Saying that, in my above example, quarter 1 & 4 can work both for Saturday & Sunday in the US as it offers a 9pm event on Sunday evening (in Hong-Kong or Sydney) which may be reasonable.

So yeah, rotate it a little so that you don't always favour the same customers. You could even put into place an entry fee discount system for the hardcore or drunken players who decide to sign up for any events scheduled between midnight and 6am (their time).
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 06:45:54 am by tribet » Logged
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« Reply #63 on: October 20, 2015, 05:31:34 am »

http://magic.wizards.com/en/MTGO/articles/archive/magic-online/october-2015-event-changes-2015-10-19

I guess I have to take back a good chunk of arguments that I made - I guess Menendian and Rish Shay of course have enough reach to apply for changes. Congratulations and good job. Now I hope you guys can get it to fire. 
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Smmenen
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« Reply #64 on: October 20, 2015, 05:11:12 pm »

I'm glad we could turn at least one cynic Wink
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« Reply #65 on: October 22, 2015, 03:50:11 pm »

Heya Rich and Steve,

I gave this a read when I started ramping up to play again. I had to look up the play points thing... wow.

Anyway, I agree with all of the points. A year ago when I was still harassing them on Twitter, I was beating the drum that Vintage players need a certain type of consideration to help foster the format. I think you spelled out each of those points very nicely.

-Z
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Smmenen
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« Reply #66 on: October 31, 2015, 03:06:06 am »

Thanks, man.

Now that the Power Nine challenge is in place, my only regret is that we didn't write this letter earlier.  The monthly premier event is perfect.  The old premier events didn't fire because they didn't focus attention on a single time.  I am hopeful, as we predicted in the letter, that these will all fire.  Now I hope we can get another holiday festival as well. 
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desolutionist
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« Reply #67 on: November 09, 2015, 09:49:13 pm »

So yesterday morning (November 8), the Vintage Daily fired with 24 participants. Yet the decklists weren't posted. Instead they posted the decklists from the afternoon Daily, which barely fired with 12 players.  I thought they were supposed to be publishing the results from the larger Dailies?
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« Reply #68 on: November 09, 2015, 10:44:01 pm »

So yesterday morning (November 8), the Vintage Daily fired with 24 participants. Yet the decklists weren't posted. Instead they posted the decklists from the afternoon Daily, which barely fired with 12 players.  I thought they were supposed to be publishing the results from the larger Dailies?

The afternoon daily had a Dragonlord in two lists and therefore was deemed "more awesomer" by the highly sophisticated MODO decklist posting algorithm.

WotC never announced the criteria on what lists get posted. When they first stopped posting results for every tournament, the Online community thought it was a bug. It was only when a Wizards employee responded to a forum post that we found out it was intentional.

https://www.starcitygames.com/news/12_WotC+stops+posting+most+MTGO+decklists
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« Reply #69 on: November 10, 2015, 02:56:41 am »

Intentional to prevent data collecting... Nice.
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« Reply #70 on: November 10, 2015, 06:14:21 am »

However, a Dredge list played Dragonlord against me in the 24 people event, so it was still cool enough.
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« Reply #71 on: November 10, 2015, 06:47:57 am »

So yesterday morning (November 8), the Vintage Daily fired with 24 participants. Yet the decklists weren't posted. Instead they posted the decklists from the afternoon Daily, which barely fired with 12 players.  I thought they were supposed to be publishing the results from the larger Dailies?

The afternoon daily had a Dragonlord in two lists and therefore was deemed "more awesomer" by the highly sophisticated MODO decklist posting algorithm.

WotC never announced the criteria on what lists get posted. When they first stopped posting results for every tournament, the Online community thought it was a bug. It was only when a Wizards employee responded to a forum post that we found out it was intentional.

https://www.starcitygames.com/news/12_WotC+stops+posting+most+MTGO+decklists


This is absurd... The statement basically reads, "We at Wizards of the Coast believe that communist China has the right idea about censorship so we are going to follow this idea for our tournament results."  I guess MTGO data really is useless than.  How are people supposed to have any idea what the correct meta is or any confidence that their results will even go noticed with statements like this?  
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vaughnbros
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« Reply #72 on: November 10, 2015, 07:07:56 am »

Was there ever any direct response to this letter or just the public announcements to the changes in the dailys?
« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 07:11:16 am by vaughnbros » Logged
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« Reply #73 on: November 10, 2015, 07:15:29 am »

However, a Dredge list played Dragonlord against me in the 24 people event, so it was still cool enough.
Hi man, it was me Smile
I think they are referring to Dragonlord Dromoka in Mentor list played by The Atog Lord.
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Smmenen
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« Reply #74 on: November 17, 2015, 02:24:50 pm »

Was there ever any direct response to this letter or just the public announcements to the changes in the dailys?

There was a direct response.  MTG Lee, who is the MTGO digital products manager, responded in the reddit thread (you can read his reply) and directly to me via twitter via pm and publicly.

FYI: he has just updated and improve the prize pool for the MTGO power nine event.
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vaughnbros
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« Reply #75 on: November 17, 2015, 02:41:11 pm »

Was there ever any direct response to this letter or just the public announcements to the changes in the dailys?

There was a direct response.  MTG Lee, who is the MTGO digital products manager, responded in the reddit thread (you can read his reply) and directly to me via twitter via pm and publicly.

FYI: he has just updated and improve the prize pool for the MTGO power nine event.

Ah I found it.  For the convenience of others posted below.  Vintage festivals sounds like a good thing for the future as well.

"We definitely want to make Magic Online a great place to play Vintage and I agree there's definitely lots of room to improve our Vintage offerings.

Some of this is already in areas we're exploring. I agree in particular the Vintage Festival at the end of last year was good. We ran a Modern Festival earlier this year. We're planning on more, including for Vintage.

Thanks for putting together your thoughts on this. We will keep them in mind as we continue to evaluate our offerings and I'll pass this along to the rest thread to the rest of the events team as well." -Lee Sharpe
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« Reply #76 on: January 04, 2016, 12:40:36 pm »

Thank you guys for that open letter to WotC.
It looks like it was really useful for them to get good ideas from the bottom...

Do you think the other points of your open letter will be addressed to by WotC in the next future?

I'd like to join MTGO to spend some of my few free hours playing some good old vintage.
After these changes, what would your suggestion be? There's still plenty of scepticism around here about MTGO.



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« Reply #77 on: January 04, 2016, 01:23:35 pm »

I was a big fan of mtgo before the changes made (very possibly inspired by this open letter), and I'm still a big fan of it now. There are bugs, and the interface is tricky to learn, but the interface of live paper tournaments is also remarkably tricky to learn ... it'll just take some time to get used to.

There are plenty of reasons to avoid MTGO, but if you're on the fence I'd really recommend it. It's dramatically cheaper to get into than vintage (even at 5-10ish proxies), and there are regular tournaments every week.

If you have any more specific questions (what to watch out for, which cards to buy and how, how tournaments work) feel free to ask here, start a new thread, or send me a PM - I'll be happy to respond (and I'm sure some of the other MTGO regulars in this thread would be happy to, as well)
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« Reply #78 on: January 06, 2016, 09:48:59 pm »

When I had a windows machine, I used MTGO. I wish they made an open version of the software, because I won't install windows on hardware I own, and the company laptop is required to exclusively run Linux.
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« Reply #79 on: January 07, 2016, 09:03:11 am »

When I had a windows machine, I used MTGO. I wish they made an open version of the software, because I won't install windows on hardware I own, and the company laptop is required to exclusively run Linux.

This is the deal breaker for me as well. If I could even get it working on OSX that would be enough. I'm not going to go out and get a copy of windows just to run MTGO though...

Seems WOTC dropped the ball on this one a bit. I mean it's 2016 and you only have a (buggy) Windows version? Meanwhile I'm pretty sure I saw Hearthstone running on an iPad the other day..
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« Reply #80 on: January 08, 2016, 12:37:30 am »

Hearthstone can be played on phones.

I run MTGO on OSX using VirtualBox.  I acquired a free version of windows from modern.ie and only have to "re-arm" it every 90 days.
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« Reply #81 on: January 10, 2016, 02:06:29 am »

If you have any more specific questions (what to watch out for, which cards to buy and how, how tournaments work) feel free to ask here, start a new thread, or send me a PM - I'll be happy to respond (and I'm sure some of the other MTGO regulars in this thread would be happy to, as well)

I'd like to know how tournaments/casual rooms work, specifically if and how much do they cost.
And how many regular tournaments run every month.

Also, would it be possible to practice with the MTGO interface before buying cards and investing thousands $ on it?

Thank you!
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« Reply #82 on: January 10, 2016, 02:52:46 pm »

I'd like to know how tournaments/casual rooms work, specifically if and how much do they cost.

Tournament cost varies depending on the tournament. From most to least expensive (tix retail for $1.00 + local tax but may be purchased cheaper from other sources. Play points claim to be worth 1/10 of a tix):
* Power Nine challenges (once a month) are 25 tix / 250 play points. Payout info here

* "Daily" Events are 12 tix / 120 play points Payout info here. I put Daily in quotes because they're only run Wed-Sun (twice on Fri-Sun) but due to their time, I don't think one has ever fired other than the 6:30 PM PST Fri-Sat events.

* Two-player events (ie, bet on the outcome of a single match) are 2 tix / 20 play points. Payout info here

* Casual rooms are free

How they work:

Tournaments: You pay your entry fee when you register. If you drop before the tournament begins or if the tournament fails to fire, your entry fee is automatically refunded to you. They're played more or less the same as paper events except for the usual MTGO match differences. The biggest of those are the chess clock (and therefore no slow play enforcement) and the 3 minute sideboarding clock. Pairings and standings are handled almost but not entirely identical to paper events. IIRC, the difference is how many significant figures are used in calculations. I've never heard of this messing anyone up. In all of the events described here, payouts are based off standings at the end of swiss, IE there are no elimination rounds.

Casual: Select your level (Just Starting Out, Just for Fun, Getting Serious, or Tournament Practice), select your deck and format. Click to be placed in a queue to get matched up with the next person in the queue. Normal rules apply. However, as there is no entry fee, you're likely to run into two groups of people who will mess with your testing. First, people playing kitchen table decks and calling them Vintage. Second, and more annoying for testing, people who will concede as soon as the game looks like it will be at all difficult. If you want to test for real, your best bet is to find someone here to test with or pay the $2 to play where there's something on the line.


And how many regular tournaments run every month.

As far as I know, the three dailies that aren't at awful times (6:30 pacific, Fri-Sat) are firing almost every time. The Power Nine Challenge appears to be here to stay. Depending on how many weekends are in a month, that puts it at around 12 minor events and 1 major event per month.
[/quote]

Also, would it be possible to practice with the MTGO interface before buying cards and investing thousands $ on it?

MTGO accounts are $15, so you can't practice the interface for free without borrowing an account. However, that $15 gets you 5 event tickets ($5), a bunch of junk cards, and a couple free phantom limited events (you don't keep the cards). This should be enough to familiarize yourself with all but the more complex interactions.

You can't play any sort of game with cards you don't own (except in those phantom events) so if you're asking whether you can "proxy" a deck and goldfish it before buying, the answer is no.
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« Reply #83 on: January 10, 2016, 02:55:35 pm »

I think pointing out that MTGO can be played on Macs if you go to the work of setting of virtualization is kind of a dumb argument. By that logic, I can talk about how I'm playing the new call of Duty on Solaris, as long as I have sufficient hardware and am willing to figure out the configuration. (No, I'm not doing that)

Similarly, I actually have played MTGO on my iPad. It just involved setting up remote desktop and using an interface that is optimized for small mouse movements on a capacitive touch screen.
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« Reply #84 on: January 10, 2016, 07:32:57 pm »


* "Daily" Events are 12 tix / 120 play points Payout info here. I put Daily in quotes because they're only run Wed-Sun (twice on Fri-Sun) but due to their time, I don't think one has ever fired other than the 6:30 PM PST Fri-Sat events.


While the objective information you provided is great and props for putting it together, the bold comment is inaccurate. In my experience, weekday daily events are about 50:50 to fire and weekend events, both early and late, almost always fire.
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« Reply #85 on: January 14, 2016, 12:49:54 pm »

Agreed, I haven't seen a weekend daily fail to fire for maybe half a year now? There was a lull around the time WotC changed prize support, but it's crawled back up since then.
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