TheManaDrain.com
September 04, 2025, 06:45:58 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: looking at your opponents deck while shuffling  (Read 2608 times)
Khahan
Basic User
**
Posts: 454


View Profile Email
« on: October 28, 2015, 11:48:47 am »

I had 1 bad experience in the middle rounds at EE3 where my opponent was INTENTLY staring at my deck as I shuffled the cards. To the point where he was leaning over and bending a bit and staring straight at my deck. I got the feeling he was trying to angle himself to catch a glimpse of cards in my deck while I was shuffling.  I don't feel like he was just watching to make sure my shuffles were ok.   He stopped when I started staring him straight in the face as I shuffled. * adding clarification to this from original posting:  My opponent turned his body in his seat, bent at the waist and neck.  I was shuffling my cards by taking 1/2 the deck and pushing it into the other half of the deck. This can sometimes leave the bottom facing up a direction. As I flatted out the deck making it more parallel to the table his body posture changed accordingly.  This is not a case of him just looking at my deck as I shuffle or looking in the direction. I really felt he was purposefully positioning himself with the intent to see cards.

How should this situation best be  handled? I didn't want to call a judge at that point because a) it was just my impression that's what he was doing   and   b) its just my word vs his word

For judges - if you were called on this situation what could players expect?
for players - what would you have done?  I'm thinking at the least I probably should have approached a judge at the fact at the very least. The more I think of it though, the more I think I should have absolutely called a judge and at least asked to have the game watched?  I'm not sure if that is something that can even be done.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 12:59:40 pm by Khahan » Logged

Team - One Man Show.   yes, the name is ironic.
diophan
Basic User
**
Posts: 185


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2015, 01:34:13 pm »

As a player I would immediately ask him to change his posture since it looks like he's leaning in to look at my deck. If he wouldn't comply I would immediately call a judge. Even if it's your word versus his, it at least forces your opponent not to do it while you're shuffling with the judge there. Merely calling the judge would likely make him stop. I suspect most scummy behavior happens because the perpetrators think their opponents are not going to dare call a judge on them.

If it happened again I would call a judge and let the judge figure out what to do. If dexterity cards are banned I see no reason why I should be forced to shuffle so that an opponent whose eyes are level with my deck cannot see part of a card.
Logged
bactgudz
Basic User
**
Posts: 355



View Profile
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2015, 02:26:39 pm »

It's perfectly acceptable to say "let's put down the decks", raise your hand, call a judge over, and simply ask him/her to "please watch us shuffle" and if you are asked why [which you probably won't be] to simply state that you are uncertain about where your opponent may be looking when shuffling.  Most people in the community intentionally look at least partially away from the cards themselves when shuffling decks, so it isn't something to take lightly if they seem to be actively doing the opposite.

At no point are you making an accusation, getting a judge on scene is what you are supposed to do if you are uncertain about a situation.  "Please watch this or please watch that" is a very common judge call.  
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 02:33:04 pm by bactgudz » Logged
Chubby Rain
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 742



View Profile Email
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2015, 02:48:53 pm »

Most people in the community intentionally look at least partially away from the cards themselves when shuffling decks, so it isn't something to take lightly if they seem to be actively doing the opposite.

The way I read the original post was that his opponent was intently staring at Khahan's deck while Khahan himself was shuffling it. I don't think it is necessarily bad practice to watch your opponent shuffle as there were numerous high profile instances last year where a player was caught on camera using sleight of hand to manipulate his opponent's deck (moving lands to the bottom or top as was situationally appropriate). Just making sure that the opponent is properly randomizing his and his opponent's deck is fine - intentionally trying to glean information about the deck is not fine and if you feel the opponent is trying to do this, you should call a judge to oversee the situation. Also, you really shouldn't be looking at the deck you are shuffling if at all possible - hold it off to the side so you can't possibly see the cards.

Logged

"Why are we making bad decks? I mean, honestly, what is our reason for doing this?"

"Is this a Vintage deck or a Cube deck?" "Is it sad that you have to ask?"

"Is that a draft deck?" "Why do people keep asking that?"

Random conversations...
Clariax
Global Moderator
Basic User
*****
Posts: 428


Clariax
View Profile Email
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2015, 05:47:39 pm »


How should this situation best be  handled? I didn't want to call a judge at that point because a) it was just my impression that's what he was doing   and   b) its just my word vs his word

To put it simply and bluntly, if you don't want to call a judge in this situation you don't want to handle it. If you are correct about what your opponent is doing and why he's doing it, this is potentially a very serious infraction. Get a judge over there and talk to him discretely. The only way "it was just my impression" plays in is that you don't want to start yelling "my opponent's a cheater."  Talk to the judge away from the table and tell him your concerns.

The only other thing for you to do is shuffle in a way that the cards are not visible to either yourself or your opponent. Sure your opponent is wrong if he's trying to look, but the easier you make it for the opponent to see the more likely he'll do so and the less he'll be doing wrong if he does.
Logged

Aaron Cutler
DCI L2
Cleveland, Ohio
thecrav
Basic User
**
Posts: 219


Seems good.


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2015, 10:49:38 pm »

To put it simply and bluntly, if you don't want to call a judge in this situation you don't want to handle it.

The answer to just about every cheating-related question
Logged

Instead of tearing things down we should calmly explain our opinions.
saspook
Basic User
**
Posts: 103


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2015, 12:57:12 pm »


How should this situation best be  handled? I didn't want to call a judge at that point because a) it was just my impression that's what he was doing   and   b) its just my word vs his word

Get a judge over there and talk to him discretely. The only way "it was just my impression" plays in is that you don't want to start yelling "my opponent's a cheater."  Talk to the judge away from the table and tell him your concerns.

Yeah, there are two options, both involve DISCRETELY talking to the judge such that the judge can observe the player.  One classic is to take a card from your deck, call a judge, and keep pointing at the card while telling the judge about the shuffling.  But make it appear that you are asking a rules question about the card.

The other is to talk to a judge after the round and let the judge observe his behavior on later rounds.  This might not work well if he has already scouted the next round opponent.
Logged
rikter
Basic User
**
Posts: 139


View Profile Email
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2015, 01:08:15 pm »

I second the everyone who is saying to go to a judge. Based on your description, it sounds really sketchy.

I, and most people I have encountered, generally make it a point to physically turn their heads away from the opponents shuffle...basically whichever side the bottoms of cards could be facing, they turn in the opposite direction, with the eyes sort of shifted back onto the deck just to ensure that it is being shuffled adequately.

The behavior you described is far beyond that.
Logged
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.042 seconds with 19 queries.