Improving Bant Mentor

[Leoj]

I'm looking for help further refining the decklist I've seen Rich Shay streaming. I've played it in a few events myself and am getting a better feel for it as I go. There seems to be a core of the deck and then plenty of flex slots.

The core deck (imo):

2 Monastery Mentor

2 Gitaxian Probe
1 Ponder
4 Preordain
1 Time Walk
1 Dig Through Time

4 Mental Misstep
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
2 Flusterstorm
4 Gush
4 Force of Will
1 Treasure Cruise

2 Sylvan Library

7 Fetchlands
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
1 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Strip Mine
Lotus+5 Mox

That 52 cards seems fairly solid. I've seen people play 3 Preordain/4 Gush or vice-versa on occasion. Some other cards I've seen played in the deck and possible reasonings:

-Swords to Plowshares: A versatile removal spell, only usually see 1 of them.
-Dromoka: Anti-delver/other aggro tech. Only issue is it seems to be a nonbo in a deck that wants to Gush frequently.
-Third Monastery Mentor: Gives you an additional wincon. I've found the deck occasionally to be action-light and letting opponents set up as long as possible before making a move.
-Snapcaster Mage: Flashing back a Recall/Time Walk is obviously nuts but beyond that it seems you might only want him to recur a Flusterstorm.
-Mana Drain: Versatile counter that gets better if your opponents are casting bigger spells. Lets us hardcast things like Dromoka, Gush, Cruise, etc.
-Mindbreak Trap: Great against Storm (obviously) but can also be used as another hard counter in fights.
-Repeal: Versatile temporary answer or just cycling on a mox for mentor triggers.
-Stony Silence: Seems like a metagame call more than anything.
-Jaces: I've preferred JTMS but the argument could be made for VP as well. Just another source of CA and, occasionally, another wincon.

In my testing, I've found the deck very solid against other creature decks. It does feel weaker to Storm, and I'm not sure how to fix that. Obviously Mindbreak Trap should be good there but I'm wondering how else I can improve in that area without diluting the rest of the deck. Some other questions/thoughts I've had:

-Has anyone else tried Fastbond in the deck? I've been trying it to see if maybe I can cast Dromoka more reliably or if it helps "go off" with Mentor a bit faster.
-Are two Sylvan Libraries correct? Three is definitely too many, but it's the only card in the deck that does nothing in multiples and can't pitch to Force of Will. Sure, it makes a monk and triggers prowess, but so do lots of other things.

[serracollector]

The eight cards I would consider are Tinker, A Tinker Bot, Merchant Scroll, Mana Crypt, Lotus Petal, Repeal, Regrowth/Snapcaster, and Swords to plowshares. This gives you additional threats as well as additional fast mana to cast things and additional defense versus most decks. Lotus Petal could be Fastbond but your already eating a bit of life off Sylvan and fetches so up to you. My two cents hope it helps.

[The Atog Lord]

Thank you for making this thread. This is absolutely worth discussing. Bant Mentor is extremely powerful, and can out-draw most of the other decks in the format.

Sylvan Library is correct as a two-of. You always want exactly one copy. Unfortunately, multiple libraries do not stack up well. So, I think that 3 is too many and 1 is too few -- leaving us 2 as the perfect number.

The one Snapcaster Mage has been excellent. Maybe more would be correct, but I count one among the not-cut-able cards. Likewise, I view 2 copies of Peordain as the floor on that card. While not nearly as powerful as other options, it does a fine job of smoothing the deck. Likewise, I could see having 3 copies of Gush. Lately, I've found myself choking on mana more often than I'd prefer. Cutting a Gush might be a way to mitigate this, while ensuring that we have enough mana for casting our spells.

I've tried both Jaces. I'm much happier with Big Jace than Little Jace. JTMS has been much better in my testing than JVP. Your results may differ. Whichever card is "better" in the general sense, JTMS has been better for me in this shell. I think that either 1 or 2 copies is correct.

SerraCollector, I tried Mana Crypt in the deck. It was much worse than I expected. Between the six Phyrexian Mana cards and the Sylvan Libraries and the 7 fetch lands, the damage just added up too quickly. Sol Ring might be okay, but Mana Crypt was very poor.

[Khahan]

3 trops seems a bit much. You have 1 card you want to cast with green mana.  You are basically giving over 7 fetches, 3 land slots a mox and lotus the possibility.  I guess if you are adding dromoka and/or fastbond it makes more sense but since both are a single  cost, not double upped, it still seems with 7 fetches you could take -trop to +1 tundra or another island.  With the 52 you have presented I would put down 3 tundra, 2 trop and leave that 6th dual up for grabs depending on how the rest of the deck fleshes out.

[The Atog Lord]

The only reason I have 3 Tropical Island instead of 2 is because the sideboard relies so heavily on Green mana to fight Workshops. I currently have two Trygon and triplex Nature's Claim. This means that being able to retain access to Green mana in the face of a barrage of Wastelands is vital. If the sideboard were shifted such that you didn't rely so much on Green mana to fight Workshop, then having only two is very reasonable. In fact, Brian's four-color build runs two Tropical Island and is less all-in on Green to fight Workshops.

[serracollector]

I was just suggesting Crypt over Sol since it can power out turn one Mentor it can be repealed for mana it cant be Mental Misstepped and its better for Tinker. If not running tinker then I probably agree w no Crypt. If you have ways to abuse and remove Crypt then its better than Sol. Imo.

[thecrav]

It's also a bit better because it's free - easy +1/+1 and dude.

[Zieby]

Why would you prefer the BANT version over the UBWG version with Fastbond, Y-Will and the black tutors (as the list Stephen Menendian used @ the last 
Eudemonia)?
I have not been playing lately but I can't find any good reason for this.
Especially now that COTV is restricted.

Could one of you give some insight on this subject?

Thanks in advance,

[Chubby Rain]

Why would you prefer the BANT version over the UBWG version with Fastbond, Y-Will and the black tutors (as the list Stephen Menendian used @ the last 
Eudemonia)?
I have not been playing lately but I can't find any good reason for this.
Especially now that COTV is restricted.

Could one of you give some insight on this subject?

Thanks in advance,

The Bant and "Not Black" version are control decks leveraging the card advantage of Sylvan Library and Gush while cutting down on dead draws or mitigating them through Dack Fayden and library manipulation. The "Not Red" version is more combo-oriented than control. You could argue that a choice between the two could be attributed to player preference then, but the more controlling versions of Gush have outperformed the combo-control versions consistently. Since you brought up Eudemonia, it is worth noting that Steve lost to Michael Lynch and Dragonlord Dromoka in the finals and it is hard to argue with the results put up by Brian Kelly, Rich Shay, and other people on Magic Online. The "Not Red" version may appear more traditional with it's host of restricted cards especially when compared to Seeker of the Way, but the main strength of the archetype right now is the draw engine. Your other cards should focus on covering specific needs (like beating Delver in the case of Dromoka and Seeker), rather than simply being more "broken". 

[desolutionist]

I think Rich Shay made a pretty strong case for Fastbond in the not Black version. Turn 1 Fastbond, Gush, Walk, Snap. Turn 2 Jace, TMS. Turn 3 Ojutai.  Fastbond used to be played in every Gush deck and perhaps it only phased out because Gush decks took on a Delver look for so long.

[Chubby Rain]

I think Rich Shay made a pretty strong case for Fastbond in the not Black version. Turn 1 Fastbond, Gush, Walk, Snap. Turn 2 Jace, TMS. Turn 3 Ojutai.  Fastbond used to be played in every Gush deck and perhaps it only phased out because Gush decks took on a Delver look for so long.

It's a small sample size but I like that the Control Gush (Bant, or 'not Black'...ugh...lets just call it 'Sylvan Mentor') is not as dependent on resolving Fastbond as it's not looking to combo out with Gush: it's fine with adopting the control role and making land drops the old fashioned way.

[Khahan]

Looking over the list with those remaining slots I think I'd add a 3rd mentor and/or Dromoka to those 8 slots.   Mentor is the only win condition in the deck and its not unreasonable to think that with only 2 of them you have to do a lot of digging to get one (which this deck can do) but then resolving one can be a whole other matter. Even resolving 2 is no sure thing.   This deck has 6 counters usable in a counter war (lets face it, misstep isn't doing much in a counter war over mentor except getting pitched to FoW).

I'd also add 1 or 2 repeals for the reasons you mentioned.

Also since this deck is light on win conditions and will often have to dig for it and play a little longer game I'd consider mystic remora.    I've been adding that into quite a few decks lately and have been very pleased.  For one, it slows down your opponent to your speed. Having a remora in your opening hand is often better than sylvan library I'd say.  Library resolves and your opponent has a turn or two to do what they want before card advantage builds up. Remora resolves and they either a) stall out to avoid it which is beneficial to you   or  b) gives you immediate card advantage to respond.

You also mention this deck is weak against storm.   Drop a turn 1 remora against a storm player and see how happy they are.   I don't really have experience playing this deck to know for if remora is even a decent call, but it sure seems to fit remora play style. Or remora seems to fit this decks play style when it stalls out or doesn't have a threat in the opening hand.

[Minniehajj]

The VSL list that Shay is playing has Dragonlord Ojutai and Seeker of the Way.  What does everything think of that?

[Leoj]

I haven't played those two cards yet (I'm playing a 2nd JTMS and Dromoka instead) so I'd be curious in hearing Rich's thoughts on the cards. I've been playing this list:



I've been really enjoying Fastbond, as it allows for some very explosive things to happen really quickly. The singleton Dack and Grudge feel very good in the current meta, while I'm not sold on MBT. I think it could maybe be a Stony Silence for additional shops hate. I'm also still trying to get a feel for the deck and what it does in all the various matchups.

[Chubby Rain]

Dragonlord Dromoka is best against Delver, Young Pyromancer, and Landstill decks (by which I mean it completely wrecks them). Those decks aren't as prevalent. Ojutai is very similar to Jace in that it's an Anti-Control finisher that is orthogonal to Mentor. Unlike Jace, it is not as bad against other creature decks. Seeker is basically a minitendrils each turn for a deck that does deal a decent amount of damage to itself with Fastbond, Sylvan Libraries, Missteps, Probes, etc. Both cards have their roles depending on the current metagame.

As for not being sold on Mindbreak Trap, Brian Kelly is incredibly greedy when he plays the card, looking to get a two for one or more at the very least. Same with flusterstorm. It might be a playstyle issue for you and worth cutting or trying to change how you play certain situations.

[Leoj]

Those are great points for Ojutai & Seeker. I'll definitely give them a try going forward.

[Minniehajj]

Mindbreak trap is also a defense against a fast storm kill, and Storm (as can be seen in Shay v. Efro in VSL) is one of the worst matchups.

[dangerlinto]

Mindbreak trap is also a defense against a fast storm kill, and Storm (as can be seen in Shay v. Efro in VSL) is one of the worst matchups.

But equally as crappy in games 2 and 3 when they land Defense Grid.  It's an OK card though, but I would run more Aegis in the board is Storm is the matchup you want to have a chance vs.  If not, why run Trap over say, Pyroblast.  Or even another flusterstorm?

[Minniehajj]

Mindbreak trap is also a defense against a fast storm kill, and Storm (as can be seen in Shay v. Efro in VSL) is one of the worst matchups.

But equally as crappy in games 2 and 3 when they land Defense Grid.  It's an OK card though, but I would run more Aegis in the board is Storm is the matchup you want to have a chance vs.  If not, why run Trap over say, Pyroblast.  Or even another flusterstorm?

I just mean from the perspective of G1, but it's about as bad as every other counterspell vs. Storm. It's some semblance of defense though

Is there a way we can really improve the Storm matchup?

[dangerlinto]

Mindbreak trap is also a defense against a fast storm kill, and Storm (as can be seen in Shay v. Efro in VSL) is one of the worst matchups.

But equally as crappy in games 2 and 3 when they land Defense Grid.  It's an OK card though, but I would run more Aegis in the board is Storm is the matchup you want to have a chance vs.  If not, why run Trap over say, Pyroblast.  Or even another flusterstorm?

I just mean from the perspective of G1, but it's about as bad as every other counterspell vs. Storm. It's some semblance of defense though

Is there a way we can really improve the Storm matchup?

I'd rather have a Aegis in there Game 1 over Mindbreak, because of how randomly awesome it is vs a number of strategies and just generic cards (targeted discard, probe (at least they can't see my hand), Oath , Gifts etc... hell once it kept Dack + Notion Thief from ruining my day.)

[Chubby Rain]

Mindbreak trap is also a defense against a fast storm kill, and Storm (as can be seen in Shay v. Efro in VSL) is one of the worst matchups.

The Storm matchup isn't as bad as that one match paints it to be. Rich punted away game 1 by casting Preordain knowing his opponents best chance at getting back in that game was resolving Ancestral. Game 2, Rich bricked on his 2nd land even though he had all the pieces to win otherwise (Aegis, Grudge for Grids, counters in hand).

I'd rather have a Aegis in there Game 1 over Mindbreak, because of how randomly awesome it is vs a number of strategies and just generic cards (targeted discard, probe (at least they can't see my hand), Oath , Gifts etc... hell once it kept Dack + Notion Thief from ruining my day.)

Aegis is randomly very powerful but completely dead against over half the field, making it a good sideboard option. Mindbreak Trap is rarely dead and almost as powerful game 1 before they side up to 4 Defense Grids. In the blue mirror especially, I find myself typically getting easy 2 for 1s with Trap. Flusterstorm can do the same but is usually dead in the late game. Pyroblast does not have the 2 for 1 potential but does have a role in certain metagames. It is also one of the best answers to Dragonlord Dromoka and Cavern of Souls if that matters. If your metagame is half Storm and Oath (does anyone play Gifts anymore?), by all means, maindeck Aegis is probably correct.

A problem I have with this thread is that it suggests there is one optimal build when the deck is a core of several cards (Mentor, Sylvan Library, Gush) and a bunch of peripherals that are 100% metagame dependent.

[Leoj]

A problem I have with this thread is that it suggests there is one optimal build when the deck is a core of several cards (Mentor, Sylvan Library, Gush) and a bunch of peripherals that are 100% metagame dependent.

Actually this is what I was trying to convey in my OP.

[Chubby Rain]

A problem I have with this thread is that it suggests there is one optimal build when the deck is a core of several cards (Mentor, Sylvan Library, Gush) and a bunch of peripherals that are 100% metagame dependent.

Actually this is what I was trying to convey in my OP.

So you did. That was before the New Year and my attention span does not go back that far. :p

[brianpk80]

This is the most recent list I ran in an event:

Brian Kelly
4C Sylvan Mentor

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mana Crypt
4 Gush
2 Sylvan Library
2 Monastery Mentor
1 Seeker of the Way
1 Dragonlord Ojutai
1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Force of Will
3 Mental Misstep
2 Flusterstorm
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Dig Through Time
1 Fire // Ice
1 Repeal
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Dack Fayden
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Gitaxian Probe
1 Ponder
2 Preordain
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Time Walk
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
2 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Island
1 Library of Alexandria

Sideboard:
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Containment Priest
2 Rest in Peace
1 Aegis of the Gods
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Steel Sabotage
2 Nature's Claim
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Slice and Dice

The decklist is from the Underground Vintage Masters event, which was an invite-event in Long Island, NY with 16 players and an entry fee that not only covered the extraordinary prize pool, but also some incredibly good home-made Italian cuisine.  The prizes were 1. Mishra's Workshop, 2. Bazaar of Baghdad, 3. Library of Alexandria, 4. Volcanic Island.  I beat UW Landstill, Dragon/Mentor Transform, and Oath of Druids in the swiss, then ID-ed with Oath of Druids, and then entered a Top 4 that was "Sylvan Mentor, Oath of Druids (Salvager-Dromoka), Oath of Druids (Griselbrand), Oath of Druids (Griselbrand)."  An interesting takeaway was that in this handpicked field of many gifted and excellent players, every deck playing a 2-casting cost green enchantment ascended to the Top 4.  The same was true for every deck running a Dragonlord.  I defeated two other Oath decks in the Top 4 (one game which required the painful act of Jace-bouncing a Dromoka and attacking for lethal) and brought home the Workshop.  

The list is very similar to the one I ran that appeared in the finals along with Matt Murray's influential "Baby Jace" Mentor at EE3 and also the first place list from November's TPG event.  A few changes since then involved numbers tweaking.  Concerning the lists' iconic draconian figureheads, I've played with conjugations of Dromoka main, Dromoka sideboard, no Dromoka, Ojutai main, and no Ojutai (he's never been in the sideboard).  Right now, because of the increase in Storm decks and the rise of Swords to Plowshares over Lightning Bolt/Abrupt Decay decks, Dromoka is peacefully nesting in Tarkir and has appointed Ojutai to navigate this particular metagame until the weather accommodates her inevitable return.  Matt summarized the reasons why Ojutai is preferred in this climate for the time being.

Rich's list from VSL4 Trimester 1 is very similar to the above list, differing in only that it contained slight variations on a few identical tactics, including Fastbond instead of Mana Crypt for speed, 3 Preordain/2 Probe instead of 3 Probe/2 Preordain, 2 Verdicts over 1 Verdict and 1 Slice & Dice in the board for mass removal, and he enjoys Swords to Plowshares maindeck while I prefer Fire//Ice.  As I occasionally joke to friends, I will not be caught dead holding a Swords to Plowshares in hand while my opponent assembles Vault Key, plays Jace, or Tendrilses the living beeswax out of me.  To each their own.  

The Seeker of the Way slots very nicely here because this deck is more concerned with "not losing" than aggressively "winning."  Having too many   spells in the early game without enough protection, draw, gas, and mana is one common way to lose.  Gorging on an early Sylvan and having absolutely no way to refuel it is another.  Control decks more than any other archetype benefit from access to many different techniques and lifegain is undoubtedly an important one in this list.  The Week Two match between Rich and Chris P's Workshops illustrated how Seeker plays out in practice and it did such justice to the card, further elaboration may be moot.  I will add that my first foray into building Gush decks included several Seekers even before Monastery Mentor was printed in FRF.  Mentor was a breakthrough for that style of Gush and became a mainstay, but these Prowess friendly lists were strong IMO even with just Seekers.  Naturally, having 4 Treasure Cruises helped.  

Going forward, I wanted to address some misconceptions about the Storm match-up.  In extensive testing, this has been a neutral match-up, neither predictably bad nor good.  I can say that there is a high frequency of the phenomenon whereby each game won by either pilot is won in such a fashion that it looks like an utter blowout, regardless of who wins, which can perhaps prejudice assessments.  However, it's never clear whether the Gush control or Storm player will win until the cards unfold.  I have blown it out of the water and also been helplessly Duressed and Tendrilsed into oblivion in what generally seems to be equivalent quantities.  A spectator on one match recently said to me, "remind me never to play Storm against you.  You chained Gushes, destroyed his entire mana base with Ancient Grudge then threw down a Thalia with 3 counterspells in hand."  On the other hand, I have kept what seemed to be excellent hands and died on Turn 2.  Some guidelines for playing against Storm here:

1. Gitaxian Probe will overperform while Preordain will underperform compared to their performance in other matches.
2. By its very compositional nature, the Storm deck is more prone to mulliganing and has a much harder time piecing together what it requires for each card lost in doing so.  
3. Using your Probes, don't Waste a Force of Will on a Defense Grid unless they will definitely be able to kill you before you get up to 3 mana or have a chance to Grudge it.  Sometimes you have to Force the Grid but if you don't have to, don't do it.
4. Don't hold Moxen in hand to generate future Prowess triggers.  Always rush them out there so that they're not lost to a Timetwister or Wheel of Fortune.
5. Don't tap out to play Monastery Mentor.  And board at least 1 out.
6. Keep as much mana as possible open on their turn so that you can Flusterstorm, Brainstorm, Dig through Time, hardcast Force/Trap if needed.
7. You don't have to wait until turn 3 to Gush as might be advisable in other matches.  Playing it aggressively comes up a lot in this match.
8. Snapcaster Mage and Time Walk are exceedingly valuable.
9. If running Sensei's Divining Top, keep Flusterstorm in there so that it cannot be stripped from your hand.
10. Remember that your Ancestral Recall or Turn 1 Lotus Jace will (generally) always be resolving here.  These are the games that tend to look like blowouts of the opposite kind that were seen on MTGO.  That said, you still have to play them correctly and make important decisions at every turn.

I've been working on a list that fortifies us even more firmly against Storm should it continue to be a major presence in the metagame (its popularity has not translated as robustly to paper Vintage).  Some changes include -1 Mentor, -1 Preordain, and -1 Gush for a fourth Misstep, a maindeck Thalia, and a maindeck Grand Arbiter Augustin IV.  The objective would be to have a slightly favorable Storm matchup, up from neutral.  If things get to the point where the metagame demands something perversely favored against Storm, I would recommend developing an Esper hate-bear oriented blue deck with Canonist, Notion Thieves, and Auriok kill instead of Monastery Mentor.  

Hopefully this helps illustrate where Sylvan Mentor is today and may be in the future.  Thank you for reading,

-B

[Leoj]

I've tried the Seeker and wanted for it to work, I've just never had it actually play out in a game yet. I had tried Dromoka previously, but being a Gush deck (even with Fastbond) it was very hard to ever cast. Even without lifegain, though, I've found Library to have plenty of utility and occasional card draw.

In the meantime, I've personally added a third Mentor and an additional Jace. I haven't gotten to play the deck quite as much as I'd like but I'm definitely still thinking about it and trying to make it work better.

[StanleyAugust]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Brian.

I have a question for you regarding one of the games Rich Shay played with the deck in the VSL. It's the game vs Bob Maher playing Tezzerator in W2. Have you watched the match? It can be watched here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MChMKeksGg0&list=PL3rP64NRtmbgwJwCLu5tySKSc2waMVypB&index=27

Rich is on the play vs Bob Maher with Library of Alexandria, Tropical, Mox Sapphire, Sylvan Library, Seeker of the Way, Force of Will, Mental Misstep as his starting 7.

Rich then leads with Tropical, Mox, Sylvan which I guess is fine. I would probably prefer leading with Library though, but I must admit that I don't know which is better.

Then he goes on to Force of Will Bob's Mana Crypt. What are your thoughts on this? I don't mean to bring Rich down, and I hope to get his comment as well, but I was pretty shocked when I saw this line.
On his next few draw steps he decides not to pay 8 life to go to 5 cards in hand which I think is a mistake as well especially in a matchup like this where your life total almost doesn't matter. Thoughts on this as well?

Rich ends up losing the game and it to me seems like his line of play was a big mistake. I think he could and should pretty easily have won that game.

[brianpk80]

Rich then leads with Tropical, Mox, Sylvan which I guess is fine. I would probably prefer leading with Library though, but I must admit that I don't know which is better.

Then he goes on to Force of Will Bob's Mana Crypt. What are your thoughts on this? I don't mean to bring Rich down, and I hope to get his comment as well, but I was pretty shocked when I saw this line.
On his next few draw steps he decides not to pay 8 life to go to 5 cards in hand which I think is a mistake as well especially in a matchup like this where your life total almost doesn't matter. Thoughts on this as well?

I think the Turn 1 Sylvan on the play is better than Library of Alexandria because Tezzeret decks are well equipped to force serious-consequences interaction on their first turn which will keep you off Library indefinitely.  Additionally, since this is a Gush deck, playing Islands first enables us to reach the point where we can reactivate Library with a subsequent Gush.  Sylvan with Force back up is better in my estimation than Library of Alexandria at 6 cards in hand.  

The Mana Crypt play was entirely reasonable.  I take some credit (blame) for that because I emphasized to Rich before the match how dangerous Sol Ring and Mana Crypt are.  There's nothing remotely innocuous about them when playing against a Thirst/Thoughtcast deck.  I won my Top 8 match at EE3 by blind Force of Willing my Painter opponent's Turn 1 Sol Ring.  This is especially defensible if you have Sylvan in play to refuel as Rich did.  Part of the reason that game went downhill for Rich was because it turned out to be the exceptionally rare circumstance where the opponent had exactly -both- Mana Crypt and Sol Ring.  These Thirst decks differ from the Grixis control decks we're accustomed to when facing what we generally regard as Big Blue.  Those decks are much less reliant on those two accelerants.  However, if you go through the sample hands of your average Thirst deck, you will notice a curious pattern that the hands with Sol Ring and Mana Crypt are downright amazing if the accerant in question resolves and utterly dysfunctional if it does not.  Once your opponent starts Thirsting and Thoughtcasting right out of the gates, you're guaranteed to fall far behind.  Stopping the Sol Ring is more often than not the most economical choice.  Being able to stop that massive threat enabler and immediately refuel with Sylvan the following turn makes it very justifiable and a good play.  

That said, I would have gorged in the Library the following turn because as you correctly point out, decks like Tezzeret and Oath of Druids essentially have no way of punishing you for doing so.  

In the meantime, I've personally added a third Mentor and an additional Jace. I haven't gotten to play the deck quite as much as I'd like but I'm definitely still thinking about it and trying to make it work better.

I've been very happy with 1 Jace, 1 Ojutai, 1 Dack Fayden, and 2 Mentors (at most).  Are you running the 4C version or just Bant?  

[Leoj]

Right now I'm playing a 4c list with a miser Grudge and Dack main

[Chubby Rain]

Snip

Yeah, I remember this match. Rich took an aggressive line by leading with Sylvan and Forcing Crypt, but didn't fully commit to it by using Sylvan to the max and I think that was what cost him the game. If you don't know Bob's decklist, you might be concerned about a misers Snapcaster Mage punishing you for overzealously using Sylvan but given that Bob's list was known, it was very safe - the only way Bob could attack life totals is a Tezz ultimate. That said, Rich played game 3 excellently in my opinion, with the exception of how he valued Mentor post killing Trinisphere. It just goes to show how difficult Vintage is to play optimally, even for the best players in the world.

[fsecco]

It didn't help that Sylvan Library's first 3 cards were blanks too... he should've paid 8 anyway, just to remove the chaff and keep digging.