[Deck Discussion] Nether Void

[HuntedWumpus]

I realize that the combo of Necro, Sylvan, and Scrying dont have wonderful synergy. They arent intended to, simply to give me a few draw outlets rather that only the Necro.  Ill be doing some effective testing at Dons monday, my other 2 locations dont have much competition, not to be arrogant.  

Perhaps playtesting will yeild

-1 sylvan
+1 Scrying

I feel that the last few days have shown the new list, compared to my list from the NEwbie fourm a week ago to be 2x times stronger. The most popular suggestion is an addition of deed #4.  Unless the meta gets flooded with a ton more aggro decks 3 remains optimum for my meta. Wouldent you agree Dave, not enough aggro at Dons to justify four Deed.

[shoplifter]

Let us know how it goes. It's definitely worth trying out. I'm just afraid of the possiblity of too many dead draws, but if it works well enough the dead draws may be negated. More options is rarely bad. If Bazaar could be tapped for mana, I'd be less concerned about it, I suppose.

[DavidHernandez]

actually, i would still run 4 deeds...

it's not an Aggro issue.  It's a control issue.  You want to maintain control, and you do that with Deeds.  I think Pat would agree.  Remember, he made it to the finals with 4 deeds in his build.

dave.

[HuntedWumpus]

Alright, i will think hardly about working one in. Probably cut skeletal Scrying for the final deed. Perhaps the Sylvan is the better choice, ill give it some thought during all the Lame Commercials during the super Bowl tomarrow.

[tehmajickguy]

I playtested Scrying and Sylvan today for a few hours and came to a couple conclusions:

1. Sylvan= not very good in the deck. Has no synergy with Necro, and in some matches, you just wind up looking at the top 3 of your deck, since you don't have the life to spend on peeling the extra cards. Its subpar under a void, where I'd rather have threats than a Sylvan.

2. Scrying= amazing draw for this deck. This card is only unsynergistic with YawgWill, and thats not that big of a deal. Its controlled life loss, and card draw at instant speed. Even the best Void players can find themselves going into top-decking mode all too quickly with this deck. Scrying allows you to refill your hand of threats/disruption when you need it. This card deserves no fewer than 2 main deck slots, if not more. The only major problem, is finding a spot to put it.

[HuntedWumpus]

@ themajickguy: As of my playtesting today i was really beginning to feel that way too, but was not going to say it for fear of a harsh beating with whips.

For now i will
-1 sylvan
+ 1 Scrying

This still leaves three mainboard deeds, not four. As of now and the deck I will run at dons will look like this .  .  .

Nether Void

8 Swamp
4 Bayou
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Llanowar wastes
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
4 Dark Ritual
4 Sinkhole
4 Duress
4 Hymn To Tourach
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Nether Void
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Necropotence
2 Skeletal Scrying
4 Nantuko Shade
3 Withered Wretch
3 Hypnotic Specter

Sideboard
2 Phyrexian Negator
3 Masticore
2 Null Rod
2 Choke
3 Diabolic Edict
3 Naturalize


Chains of Mep... would really finish my board off well but until then the choke's attempt to help with blue.

[tehmajickguy]

@Wumpus: My question to you is does your metagame actually have decks where you'd actually NEED to board in the negators? I'm hard pressed to think of a time where you'd actually need to board in negators. It seems like they should either be main or not in the deck at all, and they don't fit in the main anymore. Other than that, the deck looks solid.

[BrokenNut]

You board negators in against control because they are a very serious 1st turn threat there. And where he plays(I play there as well), the metagame is always 50%+ control decks. So yes, negators in the board is a very good call.

[HuntedWumpus]

BrokenNut Said it perfectly. Its too risky to run mainboard negators and play them blindly. Boarding negators in, where perhaps 35+% of match's allow for this, can be very effective. If he(negator) resolves turn one, control needs to find a swords, or balance pretty fast. Balance will generally cost most of thier hand as well, creating more problems for control.

[tehmajickguy]

Fair enough. I just was curious, because nowadays control and aggro-control tend to run cards like Fire/Ice, Lightning Bolt, Decree of Justice, ect.. which can make Negator a very risky play.

[TracerBullet]

I definitely agree with TehMajikGuy.  Nearly all metagames are LOADED with either critter removal or small dudes, both of which are bad news for the "slam down Negator and swing 4 times" plan.  The real problem with Negator isn't that he's bad; he's ok.  The problem is finding the slots.  The way I look at it, these are locked-

4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach

4 Nantuko Shade
4 (YES, 4, DON'T THINK LESS) Pernicious Deed

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Necropotence (POSSIBLY arguable, possibly)
1 YawgWill
3 Nether Void

and that's not even taking into consideration the mana base.  Basically you're looking at dropping one of two things to fit Negators-

1: Sinkhole.  I can't tell you how bad an idea this is right now.  Mana bases are lighter than ever due to Saclands, and Manlands are running around like chickens with their heads cut off, and that's not even mentioning that you're playing a mana denial [aggro?]control deck.

2: Random Critters- This is the more likely, but I don't see where having Negator would be better than having Hippie/Wretch.  Hippie thrives in nearly all the metagames Negator does, but it does it without the risk and while being better in other metagames (Hippie's quite good against GayR and other jank where evasion is needed).  Wretch could be cut ONLY if you see no Welders, Shapeshifters, Survivals, Togs, or Dragons, and that's generally not many metagames.

Frankly, I would make room for Skeletal  Scrying before I made room for Negator.  He's just mediocre at best most of the time, while adding a HUGE liability.  Just not worth it.

[HuntedWumpus]

Your right, when playing negator you must be careful, fire/ice is arrond, havent seen to many bolts in control... But When they resolve turn one its usually bad news. As for decree, i try to steal it out of thier hands, or have a deed for 0 readly.

[tehmajickguy]

@ Wumpus: I mentioned Bolt in that list of stuff that spoils the negator plan because most U/R Landstill decks run a full set of Bolts main. And more often than not, U/R Landstill is a deck that you'll see at the top tables, although Keith (ctthespian) recently showed how effective U/W Landstill can be a few weeks ago in Waterbury. But I'd definitely be interested in hearing about how you did with the deck at the tourney you went to.

[colder]

Welp, I was at a tournament this weekend playing B/G Void, and it went pretty badly.  I figured I'd post this here considering its relevance to the topic - I came away with some interesting insights, which is what I'll be writing about instead of giving you all play-by-plays.

Round 1: Vs. Shock Wave, playing Landstill

What I discovered from playing vs. Landstill:
(1) Your Pernicious Deeds, while good cards, aren't quite as useful.  Landstill is permanent-light, and the only chance you'll have to set off a Deed is when they animate a land.  Your other Deeds will be countered, Stifle'd, or otherwise destroyed.  The only other permanents worth Deed'ing are Standstill (fat chance), or Nevinnyral's Disk (again, fat chance).
(2) Nether Void is the first thing you rip out of the deck in game 2.  I didn't rip out Nether Void, and hence found myself with a dead card when I drew it.  Landstill can operate quite nicely under a Nether Void.
(3) I found myself wishing for a Dust Bowl (laugh).  Even having just the one would have been a godsend - control players know not to counter the Tutor - they never hesitate in saying "it's good".  I would have SURELY tutored for a Dust Bowl, and started eating his lands at my own expense.  It would have turned the tide of the games.  I don't think I'd take out any Wastelands or a Strip Mine for it - the more landkill you have for this matchup, the better.

Sideboard strategy:  Rip out Nether Void, Pernicious Deed.  Side in spells, spells, spells - preferably Chains of Meph., Contagion or Diabolic Edict (good vs. manlands), Naturalize.

One more thing I'd like to point out:  Rishadan's Port.  Sure, it's no Wasteland, and it requires more investment on your part, but in this particular matchup it looks like a good idea.  Rishadan's Port was in an old version of Void (as posted on the late Beyond Dominia), and it ruled in the metagame at that time - it might be time to re-consider this card, since Landstill is (at least in my area) becoming a more relevant threat in the metagame.  It's less prone as a Stifle target, it can't be countered, it ties up their lone offense, escapes N. Disk, and acts as Wasteland fodder, freeing the way for your other, better lands.  Another card that I saw being played against this deck that I thought would be nice was Tsabo's Web, but it doesn't have the same synergy - it's counterable and easily destroyed by Disk, plus it doesn't draw Wastelands.  It falls into the category of cards that Landstill can easily take care of.  
(What do the rest of you think about this point?)

Round 2: Vs. some guy named Andrew, playing Suicide Black

(1) Get the Pernicious Deed out quickly.
(2) Get the Nether Void out second, but also quickly.
(3) Don't be hasty in this matchup!  For the love of God don't do anything stupid!  Yes, you will end up near the lower-end of the life scale early, but if you play solidly and not hastily, you have a shot.  Just get the Deed out first.  I made that mistake, and instead of waiting patiently for the next turn, I instead decided I needed to Demonic Consult for my Mox Jet (!) right then & there, in order to cast Deed and pop it.  I still had another turn before he'd run me over, and I was holding a swamp.

Of course, the Jet was in the first 6 cards.

That's not to say that you should NEVER Consult for restricted cards - what I want to get across is that I really didn't need to.  I just felt rushed.

(Which is another thing: don't let some fast-playing player rush you.  Make them ansty, make them fidget - even if you have nothing to do, sit there and make like you're thinking hard.  They hate that.)

Sideboard strategy:  this is really tough.  I would suggest taking out Wasteland, since they'll be running nothing but swamps.  You might like to replace them with Diabolic Edict - Contagion is a nice card, but it's probably not as useful as Edict in this particular matchup.


Round 3: I get the bye.

Round 4: Vs. some guy playing Stompy

Deed ruins these folks.  Deed them and run.  I stole that matchup 2-0.

Sideboard strategy:  you really don't have to do anything.  Deed is key.  Stompy runs land-light, so the moment you Deed and drop a Void, it's pretty much game-over for them.


Hopefully, I'll do better at my next tournament.  I'm going to be poring over my sideboard this time, thinking long & hard about what I'm going to be up against.  My next tournament is going to be a big one, so the number of people playing real tournament quality decks should be relatively high.  Some maindeck revision is probably also in order, so I'll be watching this thread with high interest.  I'll also keep thinking about Rishadan's Port in the sideboard - it might be the deciding factor against Landstill and mono-coloured decks.  Let me know what you think about it's re-inclusion.

[twn_domn]

@colder:
Uh..., PLEASE don't blame on the DECK.  It's YOU.  I am not hating on you, but it's really YOU.  Consult for restricted cards, yes, as you said, it's your mistake, not the deck.

@BG void:

Cabal therapy > Hymn to Tourach
Cabal therapy allows you to force your threat through.  

Example:
You cast your hymn in early game.  Later, you cast Yawg Will, it gets countered.

You cast cabal in early game.  You cast creature.  You flashback cabal.  You cast Yawg Will, it gets through.

Also, Cabal can prevent misdirection, yes some random outdated blue players still use it.

@TracerBullet
3 (YES, 3, DON'T THINK MORE) Pernicious Deed
How many primers or Rakso's articles have you read?  All the pros run THREE.  Same reasons Nether Void deck only run THREE Nether Void.  If you need one more, something is wrong w/ the way you play.

@Negator vs Masticore
Obviously, when you play BG deck, you SB Masticore against Aggro.  Under that assumption, you should WIN All the control/blue match-up.  Negator is anoter boost to ENSURE you for that match-up.  Maindeck Negator means that you will most likely win the match-up you deserve to win.  If your opponent is aggro, then you really need masticore, extra hypnotic or wretch won't help you to win.  

@Creature removal
There is this deck called Masknought.  It also has a varient called Spoilnought.  I heard that it can kill VERY VERY fast, faster than your four mana.

What is the probability of you, drawing Deed AND have ONE GREEN mana AND have THREE BLACK mana ready?  Face it, even with 4 deed, the chance is low.  Masknought will EAT you faster than you can get up your mana count, statistically speaking.  No, you won't be able to duress/hymn away.  Because masknought will duress/hymn your disruption away first.  The solution is diabolic edict.



Conclusion:
Null-Deed is better.  I tried BG Void in Grand Prix and other tourna. occasion.  Artifact hate is necessary evil, it's that simple.

[colder]

twn_domn:  You're quite right, it's me.  As I'm sure everyone in the forum could tell from reading my posting.  I have great confidence in the deck as I've won tournaments with it before.  My point was to showcase some BAD playing, and hope for some constructive criticism on some points I brought up, as well as share some insights that I got from real play.  As they say:  In theory, theory is the same as practice, but not in practice.

I'd love it if you would post some responses on the ideas I brought up, especially featuring my games vs. Landstill.  Also, maybe you could give me some sideboarding insights into specific matches and gameplay strategies that I haven't already discovered, changing up the way I play depending on the matchup.

Thanks for the advice concerning Cabal Therapy.  I may give it a whirl - I've been ignoring it for a while, based on the fact that it costs a creature for Flashback.

As for Edicts:  I'll be picking myself up a few of them, since I witnessed several 'Naught variants in the tournament this weekend, and was thoroughly impressed by them.

In your conclusion, are you referring to Null Rod?  Null Rod certainly is a big player these days for good reason.

[bla]

I just want to comment to those masticores in your sb. If i am not mistaken you said that the main reason for them is stompy and sligh.
I played vs stompy a lot, and all that masticore was good for was geting trampled over by rancored, briar shielded critters.
I ended up removing them from my sb. I needed a card that was good vs sligh, and decent vs stompy..., Chalice of the void. It is far better than masticore both vs stompy and sligh.
I dunno if you sb masticores against other decks, but if stompy and sligh is your main reason, use chalices.

[JACO]

@colder:
@BG void:
Cabal therapy > Hymn to Tourach
Cabal therapy allows you to force your threat through.  

Example:
You cast your hymn in early game.  Later, you cast Yawg Will, it gets countered.

You cast cabal in early game.  You cast creature.  You flashback cabal.  You cast Yawg Will, it gets through.

Also, Cabal can prevent misdirection, yes some random outdated blue players still use it.

Hey guess what; if you're not playing Rector or Dragon, or something with a lot of creatures (i.e. The Rock), Cabal Therapy is weaker. Unless you plan on hitting multiple Mana Drains or Force of Wills with one Cabal Therapy, it is far less appealing, than something you know is going to generate card advantage every time (Hymn to Tourach).

@TracerBullet
3 (YES, 3, DON'T THINK MORE) Pernicious Deed
How many primers or Rakso's articles have you read?  All the pros run THREE.  Same reasons Nether Void deck only run THREE Nether Void.  If you need one more, something is wrong w/ the way you play.

What 'pros' are you talking about, and what article has Rakso blessed us with espousing the use of 3 Pernicious Deeds??? Pat (TracerBullet) and I are the closest thing to 'pros' that I've ever seen with the deck. The best reason to splash green is for Pernicious Deed (which is your only removal before sideboarding), so why the hell would you not play 4? It, along with cards like Hymn to Tourach, Necropotence, and Skeletal Scrying, all generate card advantage. You can't run the blue draw spells, so you have to make up for it with small things like this. Also, there are a couple of reasons you only run 3 Nether Voids. First, you don't want multiples in your hand to start the game. Second, once one is already in play you really don't want to draw another one. Neither of these is the case with Pernicious Deed. It's a spell that you always want to see, and will always generate an advantage in your favor if played correctly. It is the best damn card in the deck, so please make room for as many as possible.

@Creature removal
There is this deck called Masknought.  It also has a varient called Spoilnought.  I heard that it can kill VERY VERY fast, faster than your four mana.

What is the probability of you, drawing Deed AND have ONE GREEN mana AND have THREE BLACK mana ready?  Face it, even with 4 deed, the chance is low.  Masknought will EAT you faster than you can get up your mana count, statistically speaking.  No, you won't be able to duress/hymn away.  Because masknought will duress/hymn your disruption away first.  The solution is diabolic edict.

Conclusion:
Null-Deed is better.  I tried BG Void in Grand Prix and other tourna. occasion.  Artifact hate is necessary evil, it's that simple.

While artifact hate is necessary, it ISN'T in the form of Null Rod. It's in the form of Pernicious Deed and Naturalize (which also kill/neuter Survival of the Fittest and other gross enchantments). Null Rod is always a consideration, but a weak one, because of the fact that it gets swept away by your own amazing Deeds and because of the fact that it doesn't do squat against brutal enchantments like Survival, and also the fact that things like Juggernaut and Goblin Welder don't really give a damn about Null Rod. If fact, they laugh at it while beating your head in.

[TracerBullet]

Somebody please forgive the rancor-

@colder:
Uh..., PLEASE don't blame on the DECK.  It's YOU.  I am not hating on you, but it's really YOU.  Consult for restricted cards, yes, as you said, it's your mistake, not the deck.

Which he already mentioned, ass.  I don't see where he blamed the deck, and I don't see where you get the right to jump on his mistakes when he already pointed them out and said "my bad".

@BG void:

Cabal therapy > Hymn to Tourach
Cabal therapy allows you to force your threat through.  

Example:
You cast your hymn in early game.  Later, you cast Yawg Will, it gets countered.

You cast cabal in early game.  You cast creature.  You flashback cabal.  You cast Yawg Will, it gets through.

Also, Cabal can prevent misdirection, yes some random outdated blue players still use it.

You're missing the point.  You play to win while the game is still in contention.  In a deck with so few sources of true card advantage, missing the opportunity to have more is assinine.  Who gives a fuck if they counter Hymn?  It's a ramp up in your mana curve, it has an excellent chance of being a 2-1 no matter what they do (go ahead, Force it), and it also has an excellent chance of being a massive blow to whatever gameplan they had set up.  Your example of forcing through a late YawgWill is also rather naive- Most Void players play 8-13 critters.  That's really not that many.  You have to consider that odds are one of those dudes will get taken out by opposing counters or critter kill, and that much of the time, you're gonna have only one creature on the board.  In these cases, it's often better to just force them to find an answer instead of overextending your resources at inopportune times.

@TracerBullet
3 (YES, 3, DON'T THINK MORE) Pernicious Deed
How many primers or Rakso's articles have you read?  All the pros run THREE.  Same reasons Nether Void deck only run THREE Nether Void.  If you need one more, something is wrong w/ the way you play.

Listen to me, and I'll say it but once- I've been playing this deck (and decks like it) longer than you've been wiping your ass.  Don't feel as though you can patronize me because you hold true to outdated and ill advised doctrine.  In case you're wondering, I had a hand in writing some of those primers, and I've been reading the Control Player's Bible since discussing the early articles with Rakso on BD.

Additionally, if you look at my record or what anybody who has actually played me has to say about it, you won't have reason to question my playskill.

And no, it's not the same reason you run three Nether Void.  You run three Nether Void because you generally can't cast another one after you've cast the first.  You play four Deed because it's your only removal spell, usually a great source of card advantage, and removing opposing Dreadnoughts, Animates, Masks, Survivals, Moxen, Sphere of Resistances, Welders, TnTFat, Isochron Scepters, Tangle Wires, Smokestacks, Fish Dudes, Nantuko Shades, and Psychatogs is a good thing.  Excuse me, a necessary thing.  And that's not even mentioning the plethora of random decks that are assured to appear at every random Type 1 tournement.  If you don't realize that, then perhaps there is something wrong with your playstyle.

@Negator vs Masticore
Obviously, when you play BG deck, you SB Masticore against Aggro.  Under that assumption, you should WIN All the control/blue match-up.  Negator is anoter boost to ENSURE you for that match-up.  Maindeck Negator means that you will most likely win the match-up you deserve to win.  If your opponent is aggro, then you really need masticore, extra hypnotic or wretch won't help you to win.

Well, to begin with, you're wrong.  An extra Hypnotic or Wretch is often all it takes to win, because quite often, it'll come down to one turn of chumping or one little 2/2 dude to trade with.  On top of that, Negator really isn't all that much better in the "control" matchup, simply because much of the control out there will take a great deal of advantage of Negator's drawback.  Name me one tier one/1.5 control deck that doesn't have an easy way of dealing with Negator while also taking out another permenant, and I'll quit Magic today.

@Creature removal
There is this deck called Masknought.  It also has a varient called Spoilnought.  I heard that it can kill VERY VERY fast, faster than your four mana.

What is the probability of you, drawing Deed AND have ONE GREEN mana AND have THREE BLACK mana ready?  Face it, even with 4 deed, the chance is low.  Masknought will EAT you faster than you can get up your mana count, statistically speaking.  No, you won't be able to duress/hymn away.  Because masknought will duress/hymn your disruption away first.  The solution is diabolic edict.

Well, first things first- if you're going to assume they're Duress/Hymn/Unmasking your Deed, you're also forced to assume they'll do that to your Edict, so give up on that idea.  Also, to assume that they get turn 1/2 Mask+Naught every time is stupid.  Odds are, one in three games, you'll be able to disrupt them before they get either part of the combo down, and these are the games where you'll have time to get down a Deed and shut down their beatings.  More importantly, if you have a terrible matchup with this deck, and if it's not a huge part of the metagame (which, despite being somewhat popular, a huge part it isn't- Masks are a little expensive I hear), why try and shore up your maindeck instead of bringing in SB cards that just win?  Edict and Naturalize (and maybe even Oxidize) certainly fit that bill.

Conclusion:
Null-Deed is better.  I tried BG Void in Grand Prix and other tourna. occasion.  Artifact hate is necessary evil, it's that simple.

How you got to that conclusion from the arguments you posted, I'll never know.  You didn't even once use the word Null until that point, but we'll ignore that.

Long story short- if you're gonna insult someone, you'd better be damned sure of what you're doing before you do it.  Your arguments don't hold a glass of water, and the incredible ego you showed while trying to make them really doesn't make me (or anybody else, likely) at all likely to listen to anything you have to say.  You just look like a monumental ass in my eyes, not somebody who can provide some constructive thoughts on the deck.

Pat

[theorigamist]

No, you won't be able to duress/hymn away. Because masknought will duress/hymn your disruption away first

TracerBullet did a very nice job, but missed this little gem.  I fail to see how their Duress/Hymn is faster/slower than yours.  They cost the same, and both decks throw them out on turn 1.  This is dependant on who goes first, not on who has the faster deck overall.

[Yare]

And no, it's not the same reason you run three Nether Void.  You run three Nether Void because you generally can't cast another one after you've cast the first.

<nitpick>

The reason you can't play it in multiples is because of its Enchant World status, as if you play a second one, the first one will immediately be destroyed as a state-based effect.  This is particularly useful in dealing with The Abyss (although I don't believe it sees all that much play nowadays).

</nitpick>

After looking over the previous posts, I don't see a decklist being posted by you.  What are you running at the moment? (with appropriate meta explanations as necessary)

[DavidHernandez]

http://zherbus.proboards19.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=noob&num=1073909067&start=0

that's the link to the deck at the temp forum.  here is the deck if you don't want to go there...

B/g Vizzoid-

4 Nantuko Shade
3 Withered Wretch
3 Hypnotic Specter

4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Pernicious Deed
3 Nether Void

1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation

4 Dark Ritual
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus

4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

4 Bayou
3 Llanowar Wastes
1 Polluted Delta
8 Swamp

SB-
3 Choke
2 Contagion
2 Diabolic Edict
4 Naturalize
1 Masticore
1 Withered Wretch
2 Planar Void

dave.

[tehmajickguy]

Although I completely agree with Tracer about all his points made, lets try to eliminate all pointless arguing on this topic. We've a pretty good discussion going, lets try to keep it that way.

@Wumpus: Its too bad that you didn't do better at the tourney, but at the very least it was a learning experience.  At the end of the day, how did you feel about the Negators in your board? I'm curious to see if you still feel that they belong in your board.

[HuntedWumpus]

The tournament last night led me to the same record... 1-2.  Round one against Gay/R was lost because Gay/R drew 2 god draws in a row, with 3 wastlands to back them up. Thats hard to deal with. Round 2 against wmud was pretty harsh. Game one went to him and his Chalice's for 2 and 3, game two went to me with the help of sinkholes, game 3 was the best game. He developed pretty good board position, until i slapped a null rod on the table. Smokestack, and my lack of creatures dealt with that and the game went to him. Round 3 against what i would Call SuiStax? Sorry if im wrong about that...  Slow beating led me to game one victory. Suistax picked up game two went to him and his awsome discard response. Game 3 went to me with a deadly hymn that took 2 Jugg's. Once i dealt with his early Jugg i establish solid board and mana control...

Nether Void

8 Swamp
4 Bayou
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Llanowar wastes
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
4 Dark Ritual
4 Sinkhole
4 Duress
4 Hymn To Tourach
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Nether Void
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Necropotence
2 Skeletal Scrying
4 Nantuko Shade
3 Withered Wretch
3 Hypnotic Specter

Sideboard
2 Phyrexian Negator
3 Masticore
2 Null Rod
2 Choke
3 Diabolic Edict
3 Naturalize

The deck has really shaped up well over the past few weeks. Generally beacuse of age and parental limitations i only stay 3:4 rounds of the tourney. I treat them as play experiance not high stakes match... seeing as the prize is usually only about $16 each person top 4.

@themajickguy: I didnt play a deck that warrented boarding in the negators, but the give a huge edge over control, which always comprises at least 25-35% of the local meta. The are  usually very productive and apprear in the deck 1-2 match's a tourney. This was an acception to the rule.

[jeremyc_1999]

I would really suggest putting in a fourth deed.  It really helps with the stax and mud matchups.  I would probably take out a skeletal scrying, but then I am not sure if one is worth it.  I run virtually the same version, except I run a 4th deed and 1 masticore in the 2 skeletal scying slots and it works well.  The masticore is a huge metagame call though.  I rarely see and landstill or stax.

[colder]

Here's a question for everyone:

Maindeck Chains of Mephistopheles?

I got the idea looking at [Deck]The Revenge of Mephistopheles (Eastman Control).  We should already be using Chains in our sideboards, but this guy put it maindeck because of his realization of what a bomb it is against most high-level tournament caliber decks out there.  And he's not even playing a large amount of black cards - it's a KEEPER deck!

May I refer everyone to the [Article] January-February Vintage Gauntlet.  Stare at these decks for a while.

There's only 1 deck listed in this article that wouldn't dislike Chains, and that's Mono Black Mask.  In EVERY OTHER DECK listed, you can count on 2 hands the number of draw-accelerators there are.  This is a field ripe for picking - [card]Bazaar of Baghdad[/card], [card]Standstill[/card], [card]Ancestral Recall[/card], [card]Brainstorm[/card], [card]Curiosity[/card], [card]Careful Study[/card], [card]Ophidian[/card], [card]Gush[/card], [card]Frantic Search[/card], [card]Minds Eye[/card], [card]Deep Analysis[/card], [card]Thirst For Knowledge[/card], and many, many others.

My first pick would be (1) Replace 2 Sinkholes, or (2) Replace 2 Hymn To Tourachs.  Two copies of Chains could be enough to give you a bigger edge in a WIDE variety of tournament-caliber decks.

Secondly, how drastically do you think this would reduce the fighting chances of the deck in non-draw matchups?  Mono-black Mask, Goblins/Food Chain, Sui-Black et. al. wouldn't mind you laying a Chains.  Hence, what goes out of the deck to make this a good fit in THOSE matchups?

(Re my earlier question regarding [card]Rishadan Port[/card]: I think I'm over it now.  I don't believe it's a real sideboard card considering its only fantastic use is against Landstill.)

[JACO]

Round 2 against wmud was pretty harsh. Game one went to him and his Chalice's for 2 and 3, game two went to me with the help of sinkholes, game 3 was the best game. He developed pretty good board position, until i slapped a null rod on the table. Smokestack, and my lack of creatures dealt with that and the game went to him.

This is a typical example of why Null Rod isn't that great in this deck. You were counting on it to help you against Workshop decks, and it just doesn't. They can either Welder it away, or wait until they drop a Smokestack. My point is that it doesn't really help the matchup at all. It merely slows them down a bit, but doesn't really put anything in your favor. There are better options (more Naturalizes, etc.). Pernicious Deed is what helps this match, so if you keep losing to Workshop decks you should probably run the 4th (like Pat and I have advocated from the beginning).

Maindeck Chains of Mephistopheles?

I got the idea looking at [Deck]The Revenge of Mephistopheles (Eastman Control). We should already be using Chains in our sideboards, but this guy put it maindeck because of his realization of what a bomb it is against most high-level tournament caliber decks out there. And he's not even playing a large amount of black cards - it's a KEEPER deck!

I don't think I much care for Chains of Mephistopheles maindecked. The reason Eastman is experimenting with it is because he is using an entirely different engine to gain card advantage, while not technically drawing cards (i.e. Future Sight, Impulse, etc.). The majority of decks in his meta are probably blue-based control with the typical Brainstorm or Standstill draw engine(s). It (Chains) doesn't help you much against Slavery, TnT, wMUD, Stax, Stacker 3, or other Workshop decks (they don't really mind having to discard that extra card if they have a Grafted Skullcap out, because they can just Weld it back in for cheap). It doesn't help against Sligh, GPR2, Suicide, Void, Tainted Mask, Spoils Mask, or other random aggro (which always shows up in some form or another). The matches it really helps against are Combo, Bazaar-based decks (with the exception of Madness, which really doesn't mind too much), and most Blue-based control builds. This is why it's in the **sideboard**. If your meta is filled with primarily the last few decks, then maybe you would want to drop 2-3 in the main, but otherwise it's staying in the board.

[HuntedWumpus]

Fair enough. The final deed will go in. Ill make my decision on what to change and get back with an updated list.

[HuntedWumpus]

Tourney Report:
When upto a quasi decent tourney, 5proxy rule, but whatever.

5 rounds of swiss.
 
Round 1 vs Rector Trix: :shock:

Dont know why they wanted to play that, but  here's how it went.

Game One: I go first and open with land, lotus, 2xhymn. Shade answers turn 2. Land hate and fast beats win.

-3 deed
-1 sink
-1 wretch
+3 Naturalize
+2 Choke
Game two: Turn 2 choke wins.

Round 2 vs SuiBlack:

Game one: His beating and the mainboard of edict cost me the game.

-3 Wretch
-2 duress
-1 Necro
+3 Masticore
+3 Diabolic Edict

Game two: My opening grip has  2 edicts and a masticore. Masicore hits turn two, the edicts and the fact he was holding a negator that he didn't side out? let masticore go all the way.

Game 3: GOD DRAW!! Land, Mox, Lotus, Ritual, Shade, Void is turn one. Play sinkhole next turn. He scoops.

Round 3: One of the few real decks(not all proxy power). DragonCombo

Game one:He goes first. I open with Ritual, Duress witch he force's? I chase duress with Wretch. A combo of my one sinkhole and him being land screwed until late lets wretch and a later hippie go all the way.

-3 Deed
+3 Edict

Game two: my total luckyness. I get 3 waste and eat the 2 bazars he ever see's. Play void with waste on the board.he scoops.

Round 4: Scepter Control
Generally i have a pretty good match against this.

Game one: He goes first. I play land mox, hymn. He ancestrals in response, then misdirects. He ate my threats. Brainstorm is the first scepter, followed two turns later by a Manadrain scepter. Okay were done here.

-2 Sink
-1 Skrying
-1 Consult
-1 wretch
-1 Void
+2 Choke
+2 naturalize
+2 Null Rod

Game two: First half of the game is pretty standard. My discard his counters. He see's nothing but my wretch and decides to decree for 6 1/1's. Woops he tapped out w/out a force, that sucks. I topdeck deed, deed 0. Chase with void. game.

Game three: He goes first. I play land, ritual, Duress. No counter, i take force. Use the other BB in my pool for null rod. That crippled him enought that i could evetuall squeeze out a win.

Round 5: 4-0 Wierd meta tech red/blue/artifact /stax/control/sligh hybrid. I dont know what to call it. The bastard child of MTG.

Game one: I open with duress, take Bolt. Draw ritual, i play hymn i get Jugg and he uses dodecapod (SP). AHHHHH. He burn/beats/controls my to death. Im still not really sure what he's playen, but i did see alot of creatures.
-2 hymn
-3 wretch
-1 constult
-1 necro
-1 void
-1 sink
+3 Naturalize
+3 edict
+3 masticore

Games two and three: Are a mixed jumble from hell. Naturalize/edicts are MVP's and i scrape out a win. Dont know what happended, but i won the next two.

5-0.

Well i drew pretty well. But i would say that on the night, Skrying was incredible, even when it cycled. I realize that there was alot of not so good competiton. I am please with how the deck performed. It gave answers to most problems and i love the new draw addition.

Prize was a box of Box of mirrodin, that i promptly sold for $65. Not to bad.

[tehmajickguy]

Well written report Wumpus. My question to you is this: Did you notice any cards either main or side that you felt weren't pulling their weight at all during the coarse of the night, and if so, then why?