I think this is the right place to discuss what can become MUD and how could possibly mutate itself nowdays.

I'm sure Smoke+Tangle+CotV+Karn are staple lock pieces. From time to time I have seen waving in and out Rods, Metalworkers, Resistors and Beaters

All the latter pieces usually go up and down especially in numbers ( more than two or less than two ). Metalworkers and Rods are mutually exclusive, so adding one instantly cut the other.



I found myself reasoning about what this deck can do while locking opponents and time walking him through victory.

Keep in mind MUD, differently from WelderMUD, can't reliably go for "infinite lock".

Even with this "shorter" form of lock, you can easily force opponents to concede games because their board situation is desperate.

Going deeper into this argument about MUD general winning process, you can try to establish a strong long term control made of full set of redundant locking pieces but abusing of a lower number of large beaters or you can animate the game putting a strong short term form of control paired with the pressure a larger number of cheaper beaters.

IMHO, because of the addition of Lodestone Golem, we can create an even stronger version that:
  Put pressure to opponent with a lot of beaters
  Artifact based accelerant will help you dodging your own Resistors
  Without focusing only on "locking", we can end up playing a deck that will "lock while winning" or "lock as much as needed to beat and win"

In my deckbuilding mind, Resistors are THE perfect locking pieces to abuse.
In this thread/build, I would like to discard these lock components because they did nothing during the same turn they enter the battlefield and are far more slower than the other left into the deck:

  Smokestack: Needs 4 mana, it does nothing when resolved, can destroy a permanent during the subsequent turn: too slow for MUD's build I have in mind
  Metalworker: It is cheaper than Smokestack, but it does nothing when resolved and can be killed safely by any cheap removal used by any deck. Any deck who can deal with creatures, artifact or spells in general, can stop it AFTER it being resolved. It can waste too much time.
  Null Rods: They are REALLY the epitome of cheap lock piece with a strong effect: it will prevent you from using Triskelions and Karn, I'm going to use. So I, sadly, have to reject it.

Opponents will use any possible efforts in order to resolve creatures, spells and win against your cheap/strong/quick beaters. Even if you load all your resistors on board, it can be helped by the correct timing and resolve something. With the goal of avoiding him to recover WHILE your beaters putting him on a fast clock, I need both CotVs and Wires. The first ones get rid of quick aggro as much as strong combo decks while the latter will help you survive to opponents Fatties.

The rest of the deck will be Beater and Mana.
You have a strong, new, beater that will lock opponents WHILE beating.
Both Juggernaut and JuggOSphere are perfect because with a better board position they will kill opponents faster than any other staks creatures.
Karn and Triskelions are good answers for almost anything enter the board with a small body or low casting cost. This is an additional form of board control that will give you and additional small edge to adube WHEN beating him down.

This deck, in the end, will try to optimize the strong short edge MUD can achieve soon because of Resistors and Beaters during the early game.
Midgame, instead will be doomed by Karn, Triskelions and the other last locking components.
You can't safely win during the late game, but this deck is not designed to approach and win a game gone so far.

I'm not sure about being able to explain the exclusions and the bynomial strenght of a "beating lock" or a "walking lock".
The list will support my arguments in a clearer way:


(26/27)
4 Mishra' Workshop
4 Ancient Tomb
3/4 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Stripmine
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mana Crypt
0/1 Mana Vault
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring

(8/9)
4 Sphere of Resistance
3/4 Thorn of Ametyst
1 Trinisphere

(11)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Tangle Wire
3 Crucible of Worlds

(14)
4 Juggernaut
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Karn, the Silver Golem
3 Triskelion / Duplicant

(15)
4 New Land against Ichorid
4 Metagame slots, but I'm going to fear only Oath and Ichorid a lot with this build
3/4 Duplicant / Triskelion
3 Eon Hub / Other bomb against Oath

  Resistors will slow you down opponents while 8 Juggys started killing opponent
  Karn and Trisk will clear the board and finish opponents both with additional attackers or some final pings
  During the described process, CoW will protect you from autoscrewing and it is a 3/3 with Karn, CotV will stop TPS and ANT as much as Weenies, Wires will help you to slow control decks escaping your lock through bouncers or Tinker for Fatties.



What do you think about it?
I'll hope I covered my previous positions in a more insightful way.



MaxxMatt

I really like the summary you did:
   I cut CWish for the same reasons. When playing CWish and looking at my sideboard, I realized how it diluite sideboard impact over the game 2 & game3. Useless, especially if you can add different winning conditions to circumvent SadSac effects
   I'm saying it since the first time I saw its addition: with the time passing, no TPS or ANT player will blindly try to kill you without previously using discard effects or Swarms. If opponents play with MindbreakTrap in mind, they can't be surprised with their pants down anymore.
   Have you ever tried to always abuse of TTwister? I suspect, if you will find a key role to it during the winning process, you'll find additional value for this spell: when using Timetwister only as reset button or resource recycler, it is to foggy to be correctly evaluated.
   In my mind, Sower/Deed compete for the same slot. I really like only ONE of them, but I'm maybe deviated by my own metagame ( a lot of control decks and combo deck against which I will rarely abuse of both of them ).



  Spell Pierce has proven to be comparable to Mana Drain into this deck. It apply the needed protection against combo and control combo decks during first/second turn, while MDrain can't often be resolved quickly. Denial plan is the only real long term enhancer of thedeck winning strategy: it let you abuse of SPierce even in the mid/late game. When playing CompulsiveResearch, I find SPierce to be good ( as support and protection ), too. MDrain first and then use the mana to pay less for CResearch can be too slow. Drawing cards AND protecting yourself with a single mana, is usually better and quicker: any thing can let TheDeck winning plan to be more fluid is really welcome.

This is my list at now.

(27) Mana
8 Accelerants
5 Strips
4 Fetch
4 Duals
4 CoB
1 Island
1 LoA

(9)
4 SPierce
4 FoW
1 Mis-D

(9)
2 Shaman
1 Regrowth
1 Mindtwist
1 AGrudge
1 Balance
1 Deed
1 CoW
1 F/I

(5)
1 Merchant
1 Tinker
1 DT
1 VT
1 MT

(8)
1 Brainstorm
1 Twister
1 ARecall
1 Ponder
1 Walk
1 Gifts
1 TFK
1 FoF
 
(2)
1 STitan
1 YWill

(15) Sideboard
5 Obeyline
1 Trinisphere
1 Exirpate
8 Metagamed Tools

The list you proposed has so many flaws, I can't really find reasons behind your decisions aside little to none knowledge of the overall plan of the deck.

You lower the redundancy of some spells when you shoudn't and rise the number of useless ones.
It seems to me you try to resolve with wrong answers, your truly felt asks.

Is your problem Aggro? You can't add junk maindeck cards such as Pyroclasm, StP playing modern vintage
Is your problem Manabase? You can't reduce the number of mana fonts, fetchlands but adding TAcademy, too
Is your problem deck's complexity? You can't doom game without the needed knowledge and farsight: you don't need other spells in order to win, you need another approach to deckbuilding first and the other additional hints over how to manage this list



Why adding so much maindeck artifact hate? Nul Rod and Artifacts?
Why fearing first turn threats without thinking about cutting MDrains for MLeaks and not Spell Pierce ( remember your denial plan? )?
Why did you opt for adding singletons when its clear the same spells are subpar when played as "1of"?



Why don't you focus on your game problems rather than addressing those problems to the deck?

This is my point of view after reading your lines and trying to understand both your game approach and opponents:

* You fear about life loss too much
You cut M.Crypt and Fetchlands because CoB drains you a lot of life during the game. You fail to understand HOW MUCH the REAL strenght of the deck consist on IGNORING up to 19 life points AND THEN win. During this process, the slow process that bring down your life points, you fear about "losing the game"... as your mastering with the deck will grow, you should start feeling better ANY TIME opponents will do little and stupid things such as munching at your life points instead of building up a really winning strategy against you. You add Sphinx for the same reason/fear. You feel you can't reduce too much the number of CoB, so you cut wrong pieces in order to minimize damages. It isn't WRONG... it is only ...useless and can't help you winning the game. ABUSE of your life points BUFFER, instead of protecting it cutting NEEDED cards and adding UNEEDED other ones.

* You are losing the wrong matchups with the only deck that can really compete with them
If you take mine o Smmenen or other TMD members THEDECK's lists, only a SINGLE matchup will be really good for you: Aggro and AggroControl.
You have bombs and a mana base they can't compete with; while you start playing countering only key things and tutoring for reset buttons, they will try only to kill you with the slowest of the clock available in MtG. Critters aren't your very threat. The only threat you have to fear is the inabilty to capitlize such a deck against an opponent who is going to kill you only with "creatures and nothing more". Play the deck such as Chess. You can't win without anticipating 5 or 6 moves among yours and opponent's ones. If can do that, you are safe. You can afford life points without adding A single Welder, A singl DarkConfidant, 3!!!!AGrudge, A single Chewer and so on... focusing on wrong ask, produce wrong answers...

* You are not imaginative with your spells
You can't really understand the value of spells you rejected from initial list, because you aren't completely part of thedeck's strategy, yet.
Anything can cycle itself when uneeded, stop opponents threats while doing something else, help the ever useful denial plan, make the deck less clunky ...has EXTREME value. You can't really compare some of your additions to the cards you volumptarily (?) cut.

* You must understand the time of the game, the momentun with the deck...or simply lose game after games
This is both critical and crucial. Playing the deck, THE control deck, you need to know FIRST that there is ONLY a right time to do things.
Usually, it is THE LATTER, ( especially if "the latter" is the moment will let you maximize the effect of a bomb/resetbutton/drawer/protection/removal ). You have only a few answers to many threats. This statement works in pair with this other statement: you have the few best answer to almost any threats: this is great only when you are going to be able to optimize them and win.
You can't win any game with a list of spells you can't abuse of. You have to wait, analize their threats and counter only the major ones. Let your buffer of life points give you the needed time to find the right momentum and swing the game with the perfect move. It is crucial.



Anyway, I can help you focusing problems, here.
Any TheDeck list proposed isn't Written into the Stones.
You can't pick it up and play wherever you want and win with it.

Because of your addition of

3 Ancient Grudge
1 Pyroclasm
1 Sword to Plowshares
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Ingot Chewer
1 Darkblast
1 Dark Confidant
1 Goblin Welder
1 Balance

I will suggest you here a more ARMONICAL maindeck configuration

2 Fire / Ice
2 Gorilla Shaman
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Balance

Look at HOW focused it is: it help you against Aggro and Artifact in a better way.
If you will have addressed us to different game problems ( such as TPS or Oath or anything else ), I would have suggested you DIFFERENT tools to abuse of.

Feel free to trust in what we are trying to suggest you here, but this time, it isn't the deck to be unprepared to approach the metagame, it is only a strategical problem you can resolve with hard work for sure.


MaxxMatt

*Additional cards?
If you think about putting Treasure Hunt in Tier1.dec, what I realize after a first happy glance is that it will draw you only lands.
Usually you want your hand to be full of spells and not lands, aside using it in dedicated decks ( parfait, 43land, sismicassault and so on ).

*Deck's thinning?
After blindily casting Treasure Hunt, you gain the same thinning effect of a Fetchland.
If you use TH in pair with a Brainstorm effect, you can enhance deck's topdecking cards quality

*What is the net result?
This card will draw you lands. Plain and simple. If you put it into Oath, Tezz or TPS, the deck will not perform in a better way
You can have the same enhanced quality effect with spells manipulation.

TH will empty the top of the deck of your lands, leaving spells on top ( at least one ).
SDTop or Brainstorm or Ponder will put ( if present on top ) in your hand at least one additional spell
Fetchland + BrainstormEffect give a better quality between hand and deck.

While you are perfectly intrigued as myself by TH, I don't think it is a good addition for any one among good old staple decks.
It can be easily added to deck will swap cards from top of the deck with lands in hand with Scroll Rack.
It can be added onto deck with a lot of lands to be drawn in order to win the game.
It can be found a new deck strategy abusing of it but all the other ones will not benefit from drawing lands. they can't free enough space for TH, and all the others cards TH could possibly replace will be more useful.


MM

Click here and look at the aggroMUD list I proposed for 2010.
It is not a problem to peek at list because it is in English while the text is in Italian.

Rolling $tone$ 2010

While the first list is not streamlined, the last two ones are far better.
The name is just an emphatization of the higher number of Resistors' effects added in it.

I'm sure, more control devoted list will benefit of full set of Karns/Smokestacks but the one I proposed is completely devoted to quick beatdown in order to capitalize to his maximum the edge multiple Resistors gave to us.

Chalices, TangleWire are here only for shutting up Tinker, DSC, Inkwell and all the other "inevitabilities"
A lot of low cc beaters and Trisk+Karn to apply some board control.

Maindeck Duplicant/STitan would have been perfect but with a lower cc.
Triskelions are a necessary evil because of Confidant, Welder, Qasali & Weenies in general
Karn will shut up their board development, block almost anything and kill opponents with your entire board in the last attack phase

CoWs are slow as old tortoises, but they are necessary because of a so much fragile mana base and so many resistors.
Indeed, the entire deck's clock is as speedy as you can think. Two Juggys and some cheap resistors will kill opponents in two full turns. Really fast for a mindless deck.

Sideboard is entirely dedicated to Oath and Ichorid, deck's worst enemy. I really like the global redundancy MUD has: it is his only real great strength.
I wil not diluite this raw power putting some strong 1of or 2of maindeck: you'll draw them unfrequently and without the ability to tutor for them.

kaiser_soze you are theman!!111!!
Events organized as described are freaking cool and extremely entertaining.
I'm going to join this crazy bang_bus and battle with all the players gathered between europe and the rest of the world


3 months are enough to organize a three day trip from almost everywhere...
... I recommend you and all the other organizers to help foreign people to book for cheap rooms and collect details for a trip in Italy with your comfortable backup!

Feel free to contact me ( and kaiser_soze, of course ) for details and informations needed to arrange trip overthere.

This events are going to be written in the stone!

So many things to do and not more than a bunch of time to accomplish them all...


Enjoy,
Massimo "MaxxMatt" Mattioli

Bold text is one of the few among your arguments I really dislike.
When compared to ManaDrain, SPierce tend to lose in almost any game component with the exception of:
1) lowest cc available
2) strong effect when compared with its own low cc

In my mind, I started thinking about a scenario in which both of them can be resolved with ease.
Who will foolishly prefer SPierce over ManaDrain? None.

Now, project yourself into this new scenario: when will you prefer SPierce over ManaDrain?
Only when I can't resolve Drain ( often during first or second turn).
With this reasoning in mind, I will play SPierce only WHEN I need to counter things quickly and IF I can be quite sure of holding it at the right time.

I can hope to hold SPierce during first or second turn only if I choose to play the full set.
Mana Drain come out to be not a secondary choice in "value" but in "tempo". You need them later.
In the end I MUST run 4 copies of SPierce in order to optimize it while I CAN keep a lower number of Drains .

A pragmatical problem consist of early game mana managment:
I can't use mana to tutor for counterspells. I have to hold them in hand . Full set is required
During midgame or later, I can use mana to tutor for counterspell or draw into them. I can be sure to hold them in a lot of different and equally efficient ways ( draw, tutor, hold ). Ful set is not required.



I have the same feeling: 4 SPierce, 2 ManaDrain, 2 Shaman, 4 FoW, 1 Mis-D should be insanely good, there. This is the configuration I want to propose as soon as possible. My own current tests are currently supporting this feeling, as well

This is the list.

(27) Mana
8 Accelerants
5 Strips
4 Fetch
4 Duals
4 CoB
1 Island
1 LoA

(11) Protections
4 FoW
4 SPierce
2 MDrain
1 Mi-D

(4) Winners
2 Shaman
1 STitan
1 YWill

(6) Tools
1 CoW
1 Mindtwist
1 AGrudge
1 Balance
1 Regrowth
1 F/I

(7) drawers
1 Ponder
1 Recall
1 Walk
1 Gifts
1 TFK
1 FoF
1 BS
 
(5) Tutors
1 Merchant
1 Demonic
1 Vampiric
1 Mystical
1 Tinker

(15) Same Sideboard as the previous one



Your comments are insightful but I didn't overlook the issue you rised, simply I went to a more focused reaction after playing MDrains+Waste since forever in the past:

This is the situation came in my mind.

I hold Drain, Spells and Waste. I can optimize them all in the best possible way but in the first two/three turns I'm often brought to choose which play is going to be the best. In the past I have no chances to achieve with little mana development BOTH effects. At now, I can hope to have SPierce and Waste in hand AND play them all at once. THIS is huge. Only this little part of the reasoning is completely broken.

Since years, the VERY VERY bug Keeper had was about maximizing its first or second turns, the only ones during which the deck showed A LOT of defiances against opponents. At now, SPierce, being so strong during early game, gives Keeper a GOOD shot of being broken even during its own riskier part of the game. From the point of view one of the oldest living Keeper player, castrated since forever by opponent's broken plays turn 1 and 2, this is HUGE.
MDrains can't compete with a well timed SPierce.
Even when bad timed, SPierce can be cast since the very first turn, while MDrains while stronger, is overcosted because of its UU

During past days, I will risk not to ruin their lands soon because I have to use a full turn remaining opened and optimize MDrain: at now, I will kill their lands for sure WHILE being ready to counterspell their own threats with a single mana font. This strategic upgrade is stellar!!!


Fueling brokeness through MDrain is strong but, IMHO, it is secondary when compared on being able to hard counter things during midgame. This is the only effect I could miss from ManaDrain. In the end, both the effects are so strong to not let me renunce to MDrain at all. I added two of them to my test maindeck... and yes, Titan, Shaman and Strips will let you "keep alive" SPierce such as an hardcounter really often. This is luckily true!!!


Enjoy,
MAxxMAtt

@MirariKnight
I second your bad feelings about STitan as "primarily" maindeck Tinker target if your metagame is exactly as the one you faced in your last tourney experience. Put Titan in your sideboard and pull it out against combo and control. It could be the possibly best solution for you to minimize the number of maindecked winner condition and add a good variety between sideboard and maindeck ( EtW, Sphinx, Titan ).

@Smmemen
MindbreakTrap is really strong by itself but it is a great "so so" against combo packing discards. They would not let you optimize your best play against them with ease. I thought about adding Sensei Divining Top to the deck, tutor for it, control the draw and try to leave MTrap for a while on top of the deck in order to switch for it during the very last instant. IMHO, no TPS player will blindly pull out the combo only to see it fizzle by a single free spell. Their winning routine will evolve passing to forced discard effects and, as soon as the opponent adapt, you'll find Mindbreaktrap less useful. Acting forsighting, I can see how aggressively Tinkering for Trinisphere could me more useful than keeping Mindbreaktrap in hand waiting for it to be discarded. At now, I'm just thinking about 2 or 3 cards to play with the lone Trinisphere but I think this will be my sideboard of choice for the very next future:

4 Leyline of the Void
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Trinisphere
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Hurkyll's Recall
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Extirpate
1 Pyroblast
1 Darkblast
1 Fire/Ice

@SpellPierce over ManaDrain
Strategically speaking, addition of non blue lands such as Wasteland, Strip and LoA, will retard of a full turn ManaDrain being online to axe opponents spells. You usually have some moxen, a wasteland and a colored land. UU can be too slow to achieve if you are trading turns and land drop with opponent lands. On the contrary, they can made a land drop every turn, live with that mana and additional accelerants and try to resolve spells. During the early game, Spell Pierce can be online since first turn and you are going to have an "hard" counter after wasting your land's drop ready to be played with a single additional mana. My feeling about TheDeck being strong during early game such as during the mid-late game can be achieved swapping Drains for Pierces

You'll have a lower mana curve it would let you play comfortably with 27 mana fonts.
You can counter turn 1
You can waste and counter turn 2
As soon as you can reach the plateau of TheDeck denial's softlock, Pierce will block anything but creatures: you can deal with them with global removal as well
Pierce + Waste is a strong board/hand position against stax, combo and control. Aggrocontrol can't be stopped in this way because of his critters, but fish.dec aren't "creatures.dec" and nothing more: they are thin on mana base, killing duals and manlands usually is enough to slow them down while surprising their winning plan with unexpected counterspells for their own spells can be ovewhelming against a deck usually "wins small".

TheDeck can soft lock opponents very often and for long time: Shaman kill accelerants, Titan and Strips lands, Pierce is faster than Drain. Trinisphere could be resolved to enhance the denial plan against pletora of spells, LotV will reduce opponents YWill recursions and all the other cards can corally help this process ( Balance, Mindtwist, removals and so on ) of controlling their board.

I'm sure this list can function as well as the other proposed until now. Test it, if you like. Enjoy

(27)
8 CrySoLoMoxen
5 Strips
4 City of Brass
4 Fetchlands
2 Undeground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Island
1 LoA

(9)
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Pierce
1 Misdirection

(4)
2 Gorilla Shaman
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Sundering Titan

(8)
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Fire/Ice
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mindtwist
1 Regrowth
1 Balance

(7)
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Fact of Fiction
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Time Walk
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder

(5)
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Tinker

Sideboard
4 LotV
1 F/I
1 ReB
1 Pyro
1 Helm
1 Sphinx
1 Extirpate
1 Mindbreaktrap
1 Rebuild
1 HRecall
1 Deed
1 Trini

This is really the greatest among possible points of view about TheDeck's configurations: maindeck choices come down to the customization of nothing more than 5 or 6 slots. Depending on metagame, style and forsighting choices, those cards cannot interfere with general winning plan and game strategy of the deck itself but, in the end, will let us play "our" deck with some umpredictable spells. At now, I will not be able to choose less than 68-69 cards for my  maindeck. Tournament after tournament I will "tune" it, changing and swapping those few cards, without altering plans and strategy, but trying to improve specific matchups: it is an hard work but it can function only when spread open metagame is well known.

Look at the few difference among mine, yours and smmemen' suggested deck. They reduced themselves to:
balance, tfk, timetwister, edict, sower, deed, etw, sphinx, cow, rebuild: those are "jolly" cards, pet choices and metagame adaptions... the skeleton is the same for each of us.



I'm with your feelings about STitan vs. Stax: noway to see it useful against them because of their blockers, welders and non duals non basics. Retrospectively speaking, I would have tested both maindeck STitan plus Sphinx without EtW. This Keeper isn't going to put in play an overwhelming number of goblins, usually a single good beater such as Sphinx is far more gamebreaking to deal than stupid 1/1. Both of them are strong Tinker choices: STitan against control and combo while Sphinx is perfect to deal with stax, fish & random. In the end EtW isn't so strong against nothing particulary: against stax you can sometimes have an edge because of permanents, but beaters and blockers will get rid of them soon. Try Sphinx+STitan for your modified maindeck configuration. Your last tourney have been: 5cstax, dredge, goblins, oath, oath, tezz; if you think about them, you can resolve Sphinx against the first triplet and win while putting STitan in play will give you an edge over the three latter ones.


I'm sure 2+1 maindeck obeyline didn't convince me, too. It seems strong on chart but narrow as much as playing a deck not focused on maindecking the 4+1 obeyline configuration. EtW and your reasonings are perfectly reasonable: anyway, I'm convinced about EtW being over the top only against Stax ( when you compare it to an additional general porpouse tinker target such as Sphinx ). Against all the other decks, a well protected Sphinx will help you more than 5 tokens because of spirit link ( helping your life devoured by fetches & CoBs ) and the other evasive abilities. Fish can pack ETruth and stax E.E. getting rid of all of them with ease because their being tokens.


I keep Wish+Grip in side only because none usually think about countering CWish itself. There are plenty of difficult to block as Wish's target ( Exirpate, KrosanGrip, Mis-D, BFreeze ) that keep me convincing not to change this lone slot but if I had a different cards choise for future sideboard, CWish will be the first card to leave the deck


I completely agree with you about this way of reasoning! Good work!


my thoughts about EtW:
round 1: Sphinx instead of EtW would have won you the game, as well as goblins, don't you?
round 2: Sphinx here is huge.
round 3: Sphinx here is huge.
round 4-5: STitan here is huge
round 6: STitan here is cool

Wouldn't be better to take out EtW, even if it performed so well? You are going to win through YWill or Tinker. I prefer to split perfectly Tinker targets if they are huge against half of the field. EtW alone will not win games whereas optimal Tinker targets do. EtW is a bit more "dead card" because it needs YWill to be optimized. These are my last feeling about its insertion/exclusion in such a deck.  Great report and results, as well!

             

Being able to suddenly pop out a combo kill and win is an excellent escape button even for the most controllish thedeck pile. In the past "time needed to win" have been thedeck's Achile  talon: I draw too many rounds during tournaments games in the past. At now I feel more comfortable with thedeck because of my capability to win games even during additional turns and nothing more. It is an unpayable add on!
                                                                                                                                         

Hi sean,
test resuts against tezz and oath have been striking good. I can axe both of them ( oath more than tezz, of course )  with denial plan: Shaman & Wasteland are golden, but STitan during those matchups gives his best getting rid off all opponent lands quite often. Post side approach with obeyline, especially against oath is even better.

At now, I'm going for the same route against TPS and other combo decks that rely on grave, too. It's not the best thing to do against them, but it is quick to build up and win with them. Against TPS, a quickly tutored Extirpate is quite good against their few redundant elements ( RItuals, FoW, Fetchlands ): I'm confidant of being able to play around their brokeness unless combo decks would not flood the field again.

During past days, I used Chalices against TPS, Long, GrimLong, PitchLong and any other form of combo decks. ...at now, sideboard is far more tighter than in the past: I have to dedicate at least 6 or 7 slots to dredge, stax & fish. a few of general porpouse spells are added too. I'm not confidant anymore to steal 4 slots for combo with a full set of chalices: IMHO, time is perfect for fighting combo with a general mix of spells, in order not to water  sideboard strength. I'll accept to test and eventually play Trnisphere for sure: it is another good addition would not steal too much space resulting extremely good.
 



I strongly recommend you NOT to add the lone Tundra. Mana base, even with 27-28 mana fonts is highly wastable. Color screw is predictably rare, because of CoB, but opponents CoW+Waste can easily keep your mana count sometimes too low. I'm an historical fan of basic lands ( Islands ) but into this deck I have not been able to rise the number of fetchland over 4 and the number of duals lower than 4... Islands and CoB and Strips are needed to avoid opponents brokeness: in the end, a single white spell can't ruin your plans and I'm always been able to resole Balance when needed with my 6 mana fonts. Opponents tend to leave CoB in play and kill other lands: it is a matter of fact and you'll benefit of their misconception  a lot


People will concede only against hard locks or fast combo: you can always play the first game with the major slower plan ( denial and your fatties ) switching for Obeyline during game 2 and 3 if the first game consume you too much time. Take into account, your preside game situation is at least 50% a large variety of opponents and you can rise your winning rate with experience. This edge will help you play first game as it should be played and the other two ones defensively ( if you won the first ) or trying to set up quick obeyline/tinker ( of you need to win two games ). I'm really happy of the speed THIS thedeck has now: previous versions had a slower clock, too!!


It is exactly the contrary, IMHO. You should play this deck at his best.
Concede quickly if you are running bad, steal games with rapid wins even after initial soft locked opponents. Times of semieternal recursions are faded away: you will optimize your win/draw rate as far as you play more games with keeper. Doing the most of the complex moves as quick as you can, will reward you more than a first turn protected Tinker for Robot.

Nah, look carefully.


I bolded three part of your sentence because they are all, as expected, based upon:

1) Misconception of Timetwister usage
2) Low level game experience
3) Poor test

Timetwister can be used in desperate moments
Timetwister can give premium hands to opponents
Timetwister can restart game/board/hand/ situations

It can because, on chart, it is a symmetrical card
In the end, playing with Timetwister in this deck for years, mastering the timing, compelling why I can resolve it positively for me with TheDeck, I will assure you about Timetwister being completely asymmetrical when played at support of The Deck strategies.

If you can't afford to apply pressure on opponents' board, you are going to leave to Timetwister his completely simmetrical effect.
But...
you eat lands ( usually fetched ) with your Strips
you eat moxen and artifacts with your Monkeys
you grow your board position while opponents usually remain in a bad shape.
Then...
you are holding Timetwister among your spells.
you have a little grave, you have cards in hand, you have at least 10 or more cards on board.
opponents have a large grave, maybe they may or not may have cards in hand, they usually had fewer cards on board, than you.

How can you state SAFELY that Timetwister hands' refilling will be specular?
It CAN'T be symmetrical at all.
You'll shuffle QUALITY spells: tutors, counterspells, some fetchlands, broken countered or used spells
They'll mix QUANTITY spells all together again: lands, moxen, critters, some countered spells and so on.
THEY will restart the game while YOU'll abuse of bombs with an improved quickly effect over the game.
While, they'll possibly "set up and win", you are "just set up" and you'll only benefit from quality spell BETTER than during the initial turn of the game.

A better board position will transform itself into a better quality on draw, too.
Putting a comparison with opponents, situation, EVEN if he reshuffled goodies and draw 7 cards such as you, you are going to abuse of them FREQUENTLY BETTER
This only one among different Key reasoning behind the choice of playing Timetwister in TheDeck.

On a secondary level, I can take into account "relation with other specific cards" in order to put more weigth on my inclusion
*  You play strong and continous grave hate effects. Coupling them with Timetwister can fuel EVEN BETTER than described, spells recursion for you and not for your opponent
*  You are going to abuse of your grave in different ways:  Regrowth for direct single cards, Y.Will for the win and Timetwister for existing longer and balanced games.
*  You are in need of spells protection for your board: no Drain or FoWs can last forever. Regrowth Timetwister every time you need and continue protecting your board position in an aggressive way.
*  You can be quite in loop with Timetwister-Mindtwist-Regrowth: this is astonishingly old.style but still powerfull because of the high density of threats and protections among your reshuffled spells turn after turn, play after play.
*  You should be aware of the come back of MASSIVE discards effects played by a lot of different decks: combo ( SadSac, TPS, ANT, TES ), control.combo ( Storm, Oath, Tezz ), aggro control ( fish or bant or similar things ): you need, IMHO, an additional tools for spells recursion WHEN they are putting so much pressure on your hand to deplete spells after spells with discard effects.
*  Be controlled and creative about Timetwister and it will reward you, playing TheDeck, more and more than it will punish you with unlucky draws.

MAxxMAtt

I can see the reasoning behind adding old.fashioned StrokeOfGenius to sideboard: more winners against SadSac and backup plan when their removals hit our critters/recursions. Yawgmoth's Will is your standard winning method, be it used to fuel attack phases with Titan/Sowers/Shaman, be it gas and spells for a final Stroke of Genius.

Before promoting Stroke, I have to warn about his usage ( I largely play it in Keeper after Braingeyser/FoF era and before Skeletal/TFK era ): it is overcosted and misdirectionable. You don't have Tolarian Academy to fuel large Strokes, too. Missing Discard effects rather than Mindtwist, I suppose a blind Stroke can be a bit risky.

If you need a single card, bothWinner and Drawer, feel free to use Stroke of Genius.
But, due to the fact you can use Skeletal Scrying and Brainfreeze, I'm sure if you have some sideboard space, the latter configuration is FAR MORE safer and efficient to abuse.




I quote your second sentence referred to Oath matchup to your first one, dismissing Titan impact over the game. What it let you accomplish is exactly "gaining ovewhelming advantage over opponents forced to concede.
If you lose two and they lose two lands, even when in parity, you are advanced because of the higher number of mana available in the deck. Rise the number of CoB up to 4 and fetch carefully, without hurries or predictability. Fish & Oath had few mana sources, you can concentrate using Wasteland/Strips over Orchard/Manlands and Tinker for Titan to clean the board. You told us, you usually lose too many lands: Regrowth them, Crucible with them, put pressure ruining all the mana at their disposal with a midsize YWill to recurr cheap and broken spells. Avoid stealing games quickly with Tinker for Robot: you can do it if you couple STitan with Sphinx, but I'm sure Sphinx alone will castrate denial plan at his maximum.



I read PChaping experimental list with 2Leyline and 1Helm maindecked as winning condition since game 1.
I have to recognize to him ( and the ones who mumbled around this fresh combo ), I'm a bit "jealous" not having ever thought at such an elegant and efficient way of winning. IMHO, maindecking it would be as extreme as surprising against unprepared opponents.

Anyway, the deck is too tight to take out 5 general porpouse cards from maindeck and make room at 4leyline and 1helm. I'm playing it in side only because of this reason. In the end, I refuse reducing Leyline down to two, too. No way to frequently  have them on board quickly without the full set. cc4 is ostile against other denial decks such as fish and staks. I'm so convinced about its strength, I'm trying to fit leyline and helm almost everywhere: 90% of decks abuse of grave, at now: killing their YWill/Dredge/KrosanRec/Strips/Welders/CoW AND tutoring for Helm is far more simple and brainless than any other thedeck winning processes.



@Smmemen, P.Chapin

I feel a bit "nude" against Combo decks such as TPS, ANT o TES. They can board discard effect to free their path to victory: it will nullify MindbreakTrapping them
The best thing your proposed side can do to improve this ( bad ) matchup is to board in Obeyline and pull out a quick win. Sometimes games are slow enough to pull out a couple of good outplaying moves: Titan for lands, Shaman for Moxen, Wall of Counterspells. In any other game situations we are at their mercè, because their aggressive discards and quick tutors are faster than our Drains/SlowInteractiveSpells.


MM


PS.
This is my actual test list.

(4) Winners
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Sundering Titan
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Cunning Wish

(9) Counterspells
4 Force Of Will
4 Mana Drain
1 Misdirection

(7) Toolbox
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Mind Twist
1 Regrowth
1 Fire / Ice
1 Balance
1 Rebuild

(8) Drawers
1 Thirst For Knowledge
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Fact Or Fiction
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Timetwister
1 Brainstorm
1 Time Walk
1 Ponder

(5) Tutors
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Tinker

(27)
4 Wasteland
4 City Of Brass
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Library Of Alexandria
1 Island
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mana Crypt
1 Black Lotus
1 Strip Mine
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Jet

(15) Sideboard
4 Leyline Of The Void
1 Helm Of Obedience
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Krosan Grip
1 Brainfreeze
1 Darkblast
1 Pyroblast
1 Fire/Ice

It is difficult to weight, at now.
This spell completely annihilate both combo and control.combo because of their abuse of storm. It works: in test it worked really well but I'm suspicous about the adapting speed towards it. Opponents will be aware of Mindbreak Trap playable possibly in every deck thanks to its alternative casting cost.
Who will soon try to combo you out without checking your hand with Duress? Which opponents will you surprise with MBTrap for a long time? Two weeks? A couple of tournaments? As soon as opponents will see it played, I'm sure about MBTrap being hated out by Duress, Counterspells and Thoughtsize.

At now, it is surprisingly good to couple or to be the substitute of Misdirection, even in this redundant deck.


Thanks for the rebuttal against my argument: it is needed to continue positively debating about a crucial and frequent game situation.
Think about your examples. Opponents did nothing not because their plan failed because they resolve CotV@1 instead of CotV@2. They simply failed on clunking you down with Spheres and denial before exposing himself blindly to your Drains. A MUD who let you abuse of Drains in multiples is unlucky or wrong about strategy. I would have preferred Spheres before Staks/Wires.

Look at the same game if they had opted for CotV@2 instead: you had SPierce, Stifle online. The first would have stopped Wire and the second the trigger of CotV@2, letting you Drain crucial spells, as well. Drained mana would have fueled your Rods & CoW, too. And I'm not going to add details about Chains of Vapor playable on MUD permanents, too.

Which are the differences of your game final results during this match after a CotV@1 or a CotV@2? In a sintetic way, I suppose there aren't difference at all.
Which are the differences of the possibility of interaction with board after CotV@2 instead of CotV@1? In a not exaustive way, I suppose there are plenty of them!!!

If he had locked you down with denial and spheres or drawn good spells, you would have lost the same game because CotV@ blocked your few interactive spells: Stifles and Chains.
During game 2 & 3, Chewers or R&R completely change this perspective. You have different solutions at different cc. You are safer than game1.



In this deck without mana accelerants, SPierce plays the key role ManaLeak had MonoU but at a lower casting cost.
If perfectly fit both the denial plan both the casting cost curve, filling the gap during turn 1.
My current configuration is:

cc 0
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
cc 1
4 Spell Pierce
cc 2
4 Mana Drain

SPierce redundancy can transform it into an hardcounter even in middle game. I realize how 5 zero-casting.cost spells are enough to survive opponents first turn without losing too many cards and counterspell's options



I'm testing Glen and Cryptic Command and they are strong but the deck is so redundant & tight, it seems to me to be a waste of resources to use 1of when you can't afford them consistently.


MAxxMAtt

I'm really intrigued about these deckbuilding arguments because they bring me back of at least 4 years, when TheDeck/Keeper sees play and the pile was usually dissected card by card in order to build it perfectly for a "current" meta.

Metagame described by Steve's statistics is accurate. Keeper can be played again because board control and pure cards advantage can be applied towards a slowed down field. Decks usually win a full turn later than 2 years ago, so denial plan and "1forX" strategies are online again.

I'm not convinced at all by any argument brought against ( or not supporting ) Balance insertion.
The way way way most sincere one is: "Pat Chapin didn't like it anymore and I didn't convince him enough to play it in our proposed deck".
It isn't an explanation at all, but at least, it is a sincere confession.



Aritcle Steve wrote is directed to a new audience, not a more experienced one. He is trying to gather new players dissecting new/old playdecks and this is a good move for Vintage itself.
IMHO, inherently difficult-to-be-played cards such as Timetwister or Balance are really challenging for a new player that is going to play Keeper for first time. Put a Tinker-for-Robot into his hand and you'll see him controlling, with reset buttons and disruptive spells, the game these few crucial turn needed to win.

Leave them without discards effects and they with feel "nude" against unknown opponents
Suggest them Titan instead of cruel and extralarge killers and some of them will switch for the latters instantly
Put difficult cards in their hands and without the needed experience, only few of them will find their real benefits.

Think about Balance itself.
Putting weight and underlining the little negative effects of losing some resources when you are not able to maximize his effect is myopic.

Balance in your initial hand, with some mana accelerant translate itself in an unmisdirectionable Mindtwist. This lone effect in the first or second turn of the game is deadly because they will lose spells and often some precious mana fonts: their game plan will be ruined ( or at least slowed down ) at the cost of two mana. You used Moxen to lower the number of cards in your hand, maybe they made a land drop while you had used only Lotus and Mox. They'll lose their land, some cards, you'll mantain your moxen on board and from there you'll procede to establish mana superiority and draw into resolvable bombs. If your goal is to reset his board from a quick Confidant AND MIndtwist a bit his hand, your higher number of lands will let you lose one or two lands if needed, too. Balance and its threefold effect can always let you abuse of at least one or two of them. It is far more greater than resolving a Sower or a Pernicious Deed.

Balance will save you when you are thin on lands and your opponent make land drop after land drop. Turn 3 or 4 you are stuck at some mana accelerations and a land or two. He plays lands and mana, you can chump artifacts with Shamans and lands with Balance/Wasteland combination. I'm thinking at abusing it more in this deck rather than in any other one. You have Shamans, Titan and multiple Strips: there are plenty of plannable combination with which you are ahead against oppoents coupling their effect with Balance. You can Balance and they leave their best lands on board. You opt for City of Brass and then kill their basics with Titan. Quickly. Deadly. Shaman support this denial strategy at maximum. Sowers steal critters when needed and the most "intelligent" are them the best benefit you'll gain from the steal. In these scenarios, Balance isn't simply a tool, a redundant spell: it is a strategy enhancer when you need to "start from a point" and from there plan to build a win. Balance IS one of the CRUCIAL spells for your wins, such as Tinker, Tutors, Mindtwist or Y.Will.

Balance itself, CAN be coupled with Sowers/Shamans, too. At a first glance, you will find difficult to accept that a board sweeper such as Balance will function so well when you have a creature in play. But Sowers steal creatures... so, give parity to the board when you can both optimize lands count and cards in hand count AND THEN steal their last creature. Maybe they have Stifles for your resolved and off color Deed, maybe they are flooding the board with large creatures and Sowers resolved too late... in those scenarios, Balance itself with a Shaman on board or a Sowers on battlefield, will give you an extraordinary breath of air, too. None says it is simple, linear or easy to abuse: I'm just saying it is too good not to be played, especially in a deck dedicated to control the board and the game, winning only over this gained edge.

So few things said and so many microuse for such a versatile spell. It is easy to accept the lack of Balance only if you played it few times, only if you are a young player, only if you don't want to constantly mumble during a tournament because of the inherently difficulty of your chosen spells. Balance is one of them. Difficult to abuse but so powerful and cheap that while refusing its use is a bit myopic, switching on the brain and try to maximize it is challenging and satisfying.





Timetwister can be considered another "critical spell difficult to abuse" and "with some inherent risks". I'm not sure about its maindeck insertion in my build because in my metagame, combo is huge and ichorid is not as frequent as in America. Instead, for a pletora of reasons I'll insert it in a TheDeck build in US because of Oath, Ichorid, Tezz, Fish: against all those archetypes, Timetwister is asimmetrical at his maximum. Oath and Ichorid are dedicated to put things into the grave and win through it. You have constantly a better board position against them and Timetwister will re.shuffle both their useful and useless cards. Their grave will promptly disappear and the game will "restart" but with you with a monster board position and cards parity. Huge advantage over those opponents. Fish will consume your resources such as you but you mana superiority can let you start with fresh bombs quickly than him. The same argument can be applied to Tezz: your denial plan with Shaman and Titan will reshuffle their moxen and lands aside with spells. You'll have a better cards quality over their own after Timetwister. A lot of gas for you and fewer spells for them. Think about Leyline of the Void and Timetwister. You can reshuffle resources while opponents can't. Your desruptive power will be enhanced by these two coupled effects without the need to quickly kill with Helm: from this board position, the way you choose to win is the real WIN MORE spell because you have already won. Timetwister and Regrowth can continuously refill hands if needed without letting you to be decked. TCrypts, Mindtwist, Counterspells, Fetchlands or Leyline make this process completely asymmetrical.

Intelligent use of those two simmetrical cards mute them into completely ASYMMETRICAL bombs. I'm fond of complex magic game puzzle and outplaying decisions over opponents: Mindtwist, Balance, Timetwister, Tinker, YWill are all BOMBS with devastating effects. Giving credits only to the EASY ONES isn't correct at all: people must LEARN how to abuse of all of them. Leave them out and you'll play a castrated ( but still good ) deck.

MAxxMAtt

The article, aside from compelling the needed mathematical routine based on which you can find the best choices depending on the percentage of opponents different archetypes expected, didn't explain Sower choices in a deep way.

Steve's argument don't take into account about being or not being able to resolve 3 or 4 Sowers: if TheDeck can stabilize his mana against aggrocontrol denial and gain tempo through moxen dealing with NRods on board, Sowers are really game breaking. Otherwise, their impact of this critter over the game can be compared to multiple hypercosted but pitchable Moat.

Because of the lack of basic lands in multiples, this TheDeck version need more time to stabilize against Wastelands. Anyway, 27/28 mana fonts are a lot more than the usual number of lands generally used before blue.spells.restrictions: if you can survive the first critical turns, lands superiority will weight in your favour and you'll be able to resolve Sowers and start stealing and winning with their own creatures.


Smother ( such as other different cards choices ) is considered in the article but it lacks about Balance/Timetwister argument at all.
It seems to me Steve/Chapin aren't willingly going to justify their lack at now: these cards, while having more than a simple "historical value" can be considered to difficult to interpretate game by game  and master without the needed knowledge of the metagame. The article and the little theory Steve exposed can occupy pages only about this argument, so in the end, I suppose their discussion can be left to a forum and not to a stand alone paper.

@Zieby

Hi Arjan,
many many thanks for the credits and your choice to pilot this ALmostBlue build.
You did very well in an unpredictable metagamesuch as yours, full of almost any kind of different decks.

Your SPierce over MDrains swap sounds to have beengolden against all the aggressive decks. You had had additional protection against their own deadly first turn flood of spells and especially against SadSac, I suppose they have been gamebreaking, don't you?.

Have you missed sometimes MDrains drained mana during longer games? Could you describe your feelings about an enhanced vulnerability over CotV@1 against $t4k$ and a little less weight during counterwars against Tezz/Oath/TPS?

Will you change something in your sideboard after the tournament? Gyx against Oath are needed? Old Mans over Sowers for a lower cc curve?

Thanks again and good luck for your next Almost blue tournament!!!


@Bfreeze & Oath

Hi Rich,

I have to give you credits about Oath with Gaea's Blessing being a little bit more difficult to kill with Freezes because you have to let Blessing trigger, put it on stack and then eventually pull out an Instant kill with a combination of spells, drawers targeting him and at least a T.Crypt on board. It may sound more complex rather then it is in a real life game, especially because morden Oath use Krosan Reclamation instead of Gaea's Blessing to fuel both his combo and win. Against KReclamation, a decent board position, maindeck TCrypt and a couple of spells will easily finish the opponent. Iona, of course, when in play, will deplete your hand of blue spells all at once. While this seems dramatic, Iona itself isn't enough to win for an Oath deck without a grave to feed YWill. Against Oath, Repeals and bouncers give you both tempo and fuel for miniFreezes to ruin Oath unflexible winning plan. I'm confident about BFreeze being more reactive and crucial than ToA, even in this matchup!

I'm not speaking for Steve, but I'm quite sure to be able to evaluate its exclusion from TheDeck from his perspective.

Balance at a first glance, interact with both board and hand restoring parity in the cheapest and direct way in magic: two mana for 3 major effects never replaced by similar cards for the same cost.

Steve, thinking ahead the cards themselves and putting a lot of weight on the game plan role, put TheDeck in a good board position and a possibly better cards advantage one against a lot of decks. Balance, when you are in need of using it as "reset button" can't leave your board untouched and it will consume a lot of the edge you had over opponents only to kill critters

Drawers give you cards, denial plan eats opponents mana: the only strong component of the game usually escapes from this positive scenario is the flood of opponents creatures. While they are slower on winning rather than any other cards usually chosen to win, weenies are a plague if you rely only on your life points buffer and removals to survive.

While dead anticreatures cards in a modern vintage metagame such as WrathofGod/StP or slower ones such as The Abyss/Moat can't be used in an efficient way, Balance and its own interaction with lands, cards and creatures seems FAR more appealing.

I'm with him about Sower of Temptation being able to cover the "creatures' sweeper role" better than Balance because it will consume opponents resources without touching ours at all.

On the contrary, I'm not a fan of Balance exclusion. It is more than a reset button, more than a creatures killers or a board/hand control: mastering Balance usage, timing it well, playing to maximize global effect will transform this cheap old card in the best game sweeper

You are going to put opponents down with this single card. Balance, when used at its maximum hose players and entire decks : they frantically try to win, you are unlucky, the game goes on, opponents resources will kill you... and when you reveal Balance, anything appear linear and clear: you are doomed.

Counterintuitively, you can't always abuse of Balance every game in the same way: sometimes you have to carefully evaluate upon its resolution, often you have to quickly tutor for it and then start to gain board/cards advantage, a couple of times it seems unplayable: only the game and your foresight can reveal you the real strength of Balance, game after game. I'm sure its quality is precious in this deck far more than others.

IMHO, TheDeck rather than simply a "YWill.dec" ( such as a lot of different ones playable nowdays ) has inner and more specific layers of lecture: my preferred one is seeing it as a "BalanceMindtwist.dec": if you can be able focus your winning strategy around these two cards and ABUSE of their own single/coupled effects, you have a winning edge over 80-90% of the field and the rest of the deck will be only a "global coral spell" enabling Balance and Mindtwist.

At now, I'm maindecking Balance, cutting AncientGrudge#2. If metagame will require a different winning approach to the game( speedycombo/ madness/weird decks come back? ) I'll put it in sideboard for sure. ...but excluding it at all, IMHO, will be a decision impossible to take!

MaxxMatt  

Hi Marske,

thanks for the nice report and overall good results.

Looking at your sideboard directions, have you tried Plague Spitter to get rid of weenies and intelligent creatures with */1 body? You are going to control the board against DConfidants, Welders and weenies in general. Killing the Spitter, will enable you to completely reset Fish/Bant board, with the exclusion of Tarmogoyff, against which can deal with bouncers.

I proudly peeked at these DConfidants in sideboard while you flood the maindeck with a pletora of solid and broken 1of. Is this choice a metagame one or not? Will you play maindeck confidants in other different and specific metagames?

If ghastdredge will be more prominent, how do you feel against them?

Thanks in advance for the report Marius!
See you next time!

Maxx

Fish.dec are equipped with HRecall. Every robot has his killer bouncer.
Titan is stronger only because of his CIP: while it can be dealt such as other robot, its sinergy with the denial plan is better than his presence on board.
Basic lands can't be killed with ease with almost any deck. Shaman and Wasteland are enough to soft lock opponents.
STitan is the quickest way to kill them all

IMHO, when you are playing control decks such as Keeper or TheDeck, you should not resolve things to win, even if it is your fat robot entering the battlefield
Your goal will be always the same.
Kill their board forcing them conceding the game: the ways you'll use to accomplish this single goal could be as different as your mastery with the deck will decide.


I maindecked it in my own lastly proposed build, here too.
click
I rise up to 4 the number of CoB for a better support of Green spells, too.
I'm not a fan of Sower, so I opted for Balance as sweeper for bad board positions.

Retrospectively thinking, I'm sure playing multiple Sowers and additional board chumper such as Shamans or Heretics should force you avoiding the Balance play.
Every other game situation I can think of, usually force me to prefer Balance, even if it white, even if I play another color only for it.


MM

thank you for your comment. IMHO, ETruth + ReB + Chains are enough to bounce back Fish critters long enough to set up, stabilize and start countering their own spells. Instead of putting boardsweepers on your battlefield enabling their own removals/bouncers, I preferred playing with more solutions between maindeck & sideboard. On a side note, you have 4 F/I: they are golden against Fish & Bant; anthing greater than */2 can be bounced back and then countered.

You can clean their own mana base with Wastelands recursion while they can't. It will be an added bonus when your manlands are going to face their own ones.


MBreakT is powerful. Thinking about its addition ( between main & side ), I suppose 3 is the correct number against Control & Combo. It can cover the role ReB had had until now with the exception of being able to deal with blue permanents ( such as fish critters, opponents standstill, blue creatures and so on ). I have to test them in order to realize if URStandstill will benefit in a long term winning plan

Sideboard will become:

4 Leyline of Singularity
3 Ravenous Trap
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Rack & Ruin
2 Echoing Truth



I didn't touch the mana base argument because, until now, I'm not fully satisfied by the conigurations I have in test.
the most promising one is:

4 Wasteland
3 Volcanic Island
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Island
2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Fairie Conclave
2 Mishra Factory
2 Mutavault
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Stripmine
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire

It is resilient to PNeedles and Extirpate: you can fetch all your lands with 3x of different fetchlands.
No Mountains needed: mulling Mountains+colorless mana initial hand is deadly
I'm testing the addition of 1 Ghost Quarter instead of fourth Wasteland beacuse with multiple Stifles, it can force opponent to fetch for island, helping your stifles to make a good job killing their basic lands
I'm not a fan of FConclaves because of thousand of reasons, but because UrStandstill is going to play the long term game against any opponent, you need something to fly over their chumps and steal victories with those stupid fliers.




This is how Leyline of Singularity interact with dredge.dec :
"if they can choose, leave on board only a single legendary creature of each type. no tokens can flood the board"

Protect your leyline and you will win. Plain and simple.

You are packing a shit load of counterspells in your deck. Aren't you going to lose from some crappy disenchant+discards cards combination, don't you?

Retrospectively speaking, LoSingularity can be good agains fish and weenies, too. They will be forced to leave only a single creature with the same name on board, slowing their winning plan a lot.


Sorry man, but I'm shocked by the lack of logic of your argument.

They play cotv@2. You are worried.
You play chain of vapor. You bounce it back.
Chalice problem solved
Go on and continue the game

They play cotv@1. You are not worried.
You draw into your chain of vapor. Oh, useless.
Chalice ( PLUS any other nasty permanent on board ) problem unsolvable with your current deck configuration excluding countering almost anything, which is impossible in a long term game.
Game over

Chain, in your deck, is THE answer for almost anything opponents can resolve.
With a resolved CotV@2 in play before cotv@1, they can't outplay and lock you down anymore.
Their own cotv@1 will have converted mana cost 2. their own first cotv@2 will block the second cotv@1 from being resolved.
You have an ever ready to be used chain of vapor to get rid of their permanents when you need to.

The only way to slow you down with chalices quickly and correctly is to resolve 2 chalices: first @1 and secondarily @2. between them, they might resolve spheres to utterly slow you down. Welders, against a deck full of F/I is the weakest of their own resources.


Like any coral decks without any specific silver bullet or threats, I consider Rods untouchable.
You can't find any set of cards as strong as Rods: any top tier deck will fear them more than any other spells.
Bouncers can be good but if your problems are Goyfs, you are lacking of strategy and not of cards.
All proposed build are perfectly able to resolve the "goyf problem" with ease. No bolts allowed, here

Early game take damages or tap it out
Mid game bounce it back and then counter it
Late game, chump with manlands and win with fliers

Please, please, please, LET critters resolve and think to counter REAL threats. UrStandstill will win
I'm just emphasizing here, quick GOyfs CAN be a problems, especially in multiples, but I'm sure a better approach to the urstandstill game plan will help you more than different "creative" cards.


MAxxMAtt

## Landstill vs. Dredge

Your plan fails to apply to Dredge critters because it has sorcery speed while they can be able to attack & win with them the same turn they enter the battlefield. their winning process can be axed twice or more but it is still efficient enough to win.
On the other hand, Leyline of Singularity will clean the board as soon as their threats comes in multiples. While you can handle a couple of critters, you can't be sure to survive to a pletora of zombies or ichorids or fatties. Leyline will prevent their army to grow enough to be lethal.
Landstill is the best equipped deck to protect his own permanents from being removed from game by opponents hate, so you will fear discards and disenchants less than other control decks

## Spell Pierce is almost an hardcounter...

...if you are managing Landstill resources properly.
Null Rods will axe opponents artifact mana as much as Wastelands will deal with opponents duals. Stifles should kill their fetchlands and CoW recurr Strips, too. In the end, opponents are going to play with a few mana fonts on board. They are going to use those few mana fonts to resolve spells, without being usually able to pay for SPierce.

As much as the denial plan will go on, SPierce can be considered the "cheaper" among Landstill's hardcounterspells.


## Landstill vs CotV@1
Plenty of key cards listed in your deck will be freezed by a quick cotv@1.
Stifles, Pierces, Chains, ARecall, SSnare, Blasts... while it seems to you they are redundant cards without key strategical role, a single CotV@1 can shut half of your deck down during CRUCIAL first or second turn without being able to deal with them at all. Staks can blindly put CotV@1 first and then lock and logorate you down until CotV@2 will resolve.

I fear more a CotV@1 against Landstill rather than a quick CotV@2
1cc spells will help protect you against opponents' first turn play
Rebs are key post side cards
Chains can't be used with cotv@1 in play, avoiding you to deal with any permanents till game end
Stifle can be used to neutralize CotV@2 triggers and resolve a 2cc spell, too

I will build maindeck in a way similar to yours
Indeed, sideboard will be this one



You can deal with almost anything thrown into the battlefield being them artifacts, enchantments, critters or fatties.
I put a lot of an effort over additional grave/board control rather than handcontrol/drawpower


with this skeleton, my proposed sideboard will cover control, combo, artifact & dredge really well.
aggro control will be dealt with etruth, rebs, mandlands and hard counters.
nothing more, but I suppose it is enough


Enjoy,
MAxxMAtt

Let me try to explain my argument following your initial line of thoughts. It may sounds clearer:


1) You aren't overvaluing card parity. It is the most important component when choosing what to play. I'll come back on this argument later.
2) You aren't wasting draw steps with MT, if you exclude Tezz.dec forced to topdeck without a board/hand. In a lot different game situations, almost any of you business spells will help you to nullify pratical cards disadvantage producted by MT: Rebuild can cicle, DConfidant give you a double draw step, Repeal will bounce & cicle, F/I can tap & cicle, SDTop will exchange the top card of the deck for you if needed, BS & Ponder simply put the MysticallyTutored card directly in your hand.
3) Tutors effects aren't easily replaced with drawers/businessspells/protections


You will not have to leave MT maindecked because of these spells but because of them when needed MT will search for you crucial spells almost in card parity during those matchups cards' parity count the most.

During preside control matchups, you fear topdecking MT with not so strong hand; sometimes against combo decks, too.
in these possibly marginal game situations, MT is really bad, but if you face the same opponents in any other possible game situation, you'll find MT more than decent.
Postside, you'll simply minimize the risks of dead draws replacing MT with other more efficient spells. Even after this postside swap, I don't feel to regret about that damn MT played during game one, because I'm sure, the REST of the deck helped me to nullify the inherent disadvantage derived from his play ( cicling, drawing, gaining tempo etc etc ) leaving me with only the strength of the card fetched in this way.

We have not so many efficient tutors effects can be compared with MT, DT, VT, Tinker & Scroll. I'm not sure to be ready to drop one of them. Decks are hungry of crucial strong tutors. Business spells are chosen among the most flexible ones. Almost 2/3 among all the spells in your deck can replace itself with other cards during the game, giving you a lot of advantages over your opponents. ONLY few of them, will directly search for CRUCIAL spells.

In a game of priority and decisions such as MtG, I found the role and the presence of ALL the tutors far more game breaking than any other possible spells choice.



I'm sure about Duress plus counterspells being more aggressive and controllish than SPierce.
Anyway, putting this argument on a more theoretical point of view.

If someone will force you face 1 of each the possibly different decks available in Vintage at moment... wouldn't be SPierce better than Duress/Thoughtsize?
Deeper on this argument, "better" isnt' the proper word to use, I mean, wouldn't you find blue.SPierce ( rather than black.Discards ) being more flexible, more efficient, more sinergic witha BLUE based control deck that NEED to win in the middle game and not AFTER the first duress?

If you know your opponents, checking their hands or being able to counter their threats is usually the same. My argument fails only when referred to bad control players ( not your case, of course ) or cards such as Extirpate & co. . Against them you can side additional proactive protections.

SPierce and Discards are both 1cc but instant and blue for a strong effect during early game, seems more appealing to me rather than sorcery speed and terribly black.

@GI & Mystical Tutor

Rico Suave nicely summarized my feelings about this card really well.

My last, strong, concrete argument about the inclusion of MT even bbin an optimized Tezz build come out by looking at which cards you opted for.

Rebuild, Brainstorm, Ponder, DarkConfidant, SenseiDiviningTop, Repeal, Fire/Ice are 8/10 cards will tranform your disadvantage tutor in a cards' parity tutor for game breaking bombs. It is more than enough to balance a couple unlucky topdecks with a lot of optimized cards/spells coordinations.

I will sure side it out game 2 & 3. Neverthless, I respect it for his strength during all noncontrol matchups.
Your own specific deck's shell support a better usage in control matchups, too.
Aside when you are in topdecking mode with Tezz without a board ( no Confidant/Sensei/nothing ) and no business spells, MT will let you try to go broken with Bombs.

I'm not saying it is an autoinclude in your deck if you have to face 60/70% of combo/control mirror matches to win but IMHO, his own flexibility is far more important than his strenght and the coral effect of the deck will weight and pressure opponents more with it maindecked rather than without it.


@GI & Protections choices

Have you thought about this Post Zendikar protection's configuration?

4 FoW
3/4 Drain
3/4 Spell Pierce
0/1 Misdirection

Is the value of checking opponents hand and depleting a couple of bombs higher than being able to protect your own bombs in a more efficient way, especially quicker than before? I suppose them being comparable if you have not enough informations about metagame.

An "optimal" Tezz. shell should be build for mixed metagame and then "adapted" to specific ones. I'm going to test my sentence, but I fear about Spell Pierce being far more "general porpouse" than discards effects because they fill turn 1 gap of control decks in a more armonical way.

Counter opponents FoW during your turn 2 key dark confidant spell
Counter opponents business spell during their turn 1
Counter opponents turn 1 topdecked bomb
Counter opponents bomb with triple counter backup and only three mana without fearing their strong topdeck or top deck adjustment via Sensei/Brainstorm/Ponder
Abuse of Islands and not Underground Sea

Duress and Thoughtsize are creepy bombs but can't avoid opponents to have a come back if luck will help them. They usually let you counter on your first turn which is usually better than duressing on turn 1 because don't tap you out leaving you with your own lone duressable FoW.


I'm going so extreme into this argument since weeks that I'm going to ask you if or with which frequence you can state to abuse of Mana Drain mana. If it is unfrequent or slower, try the Mana Drain / Spell Pierce swap

4 Force of Will
4 Spell Pierce
3/4 Discard Effects of choice
0/1 Pitch counter of choice.

It is a blast during my tests. Barring an improved CotV@1 vulnerability, I found Tezz deck being more game breaking in the early and middle game.
You can optimize strong and unconventional plays a full turn before which is KEY to combo opponents out in a more efficient way.
Have you ever tried similar decks configuration?



I found your readings, as usually, really insightfull! Good work!

MM

Talking about Ur.Landstill, I'm supporting denial plan rather than other hybrid strategies, for sure.
You told us Rods are dead cards in your metagame because
Even in the described situation I cannot opt for any other card to maindeck playing a deck such like Landstill.
From your description, you are facing a large variety of Fish.dec and some powered deck such as Tezz o Stacker.
While they are going to abuse of Rods against other players but not you, you have an edge over them too. Let me articulate.

Fish will see Mishra's ability shut up as much as you, but you have a stronger mana base, more protections and you'll prevent them from sideboarding in Jitte without any additional mumbling. CoW will power up your recurring denial plan that would easily seal the game thanks to Shaman eating their artifacts and Titan killing their few lands.
You slow down the game. You are the controller and no game can be controlled for a lot of time if opponent is plenty of mana and playable resources. Sacrificing a little bit of 1for1 answers ( like Repeals ), you'll mantain an edge over opponents killing their mana with 1forMany tools ( Shaman, Rods, GlobalBouncers, Titan ) enabling long term plan because of counterspells directed to their few playable threats and additional drawers.

Against Tezz and Stacker, you'll shut up ( with your Rods COUPLED with the other tools ) half of their decks, too.

I cannot see you ride the winning train without a stable and coerent denial plan.
Look at this sinergy: because of Rods, you can control the board with Spell Pierce and Wastelands in a crucial way. They often cannot pay for Pierce and you can both Waste and Pierce them with a single mana open, maybe forcing them into tactical errors because of mana denial pressure.

Rods & Shaman aren't redundant at all. You are free to think about Shaman being sufficient at controlling the board but it is not true at all. While Shaman can eat almost anything decent and playable in modern Vintage, it can't prevent opponents from using resolving artifact at least one time ( or at worst, more than one time, putting into stack a large range of abilities ). Coupling Rods with Shamans you are completely controlling half of their deck preventing them from using artifact both for mana and for winnings.

Without Rods, not only Titan can't be so efficient as you suspect, but your entire deck will be watered down a lot, losing more than gaining.
Put opponents the needed pressure with 1.for.many threats and you'll be able to win with Landstill, too.



Aren't you siding out counterspells against Ichorid, don't you?

For reference: -4 Standstill, -3 Rods, +4 LeylineofSingularity, +3 Ravenous Trap are enough to guarantee an overwhelming victory. You can counter their own discard & disenchant effects with ease; traps and leyline, if protected are pretty much game over against Ichorid.


IMHO, BRing is strong but too slow and without the ability to tutor for it during the game.
Vendilon Clique is a strong "?!?!?"



from opponents points of view, Ophidian & Standstill without Rods and taken out crucial business spells means : "I'll break you creepy enchantment during your own EoT forcing you to discard additional cards while, without a good denial plan, I'm going to resolve threats for sure and laugh at your blue frightened little snake"

Enjoy!
MM

You can't easily Sower their entire board while E.E. can wipe sway their weenies with a single shot.
After that process, thieving their critters will be safer. I'm sure combining these two spells will produce a more persistent effect



I think Oath can't be Landstill worst problem. You can buy tempo with almost any cards between maindeck and sideboard.
Even a quickly resolved Oath can be stiffled & bounced back. Your counter wall is always useful because your denial plan will torment his mana since first turn. You can Stifle lands, eat mana with Wastelands & Shaman, Titan their survived duals and Tutor for the needed answer of choice. Sideboard will kill their Krosan Reclamation winning routine while additional bouncers and rebs will help youbuy time and improve your board position.
Aside Inkwell, other fatties can be tapped by F/I buying you more cards & turns.

I'm not sure if a non.Pierce.Landstill build will perform as well as I'm describing this matchup, but being strong Turn1 AND Turn2 against Oath is more than an half on the stairway to victory.



Teferi's Response cc will interact negatively with all the other broken 2cc spells of the deck. Flooding your deck with a pletora of CRUCIAL 2cc spells will clunk your first turn as much as your second. I'm preferring, from a strategical and tactical point of view, to balance 1cc and 2cc spells, especially when I'm not playing a deck with an accelerated mana base. You rely only on Sapphire and Lotus to fire a first turn 2cc spell: IMHO it is not enough to guarantee you the correct climax spell sequence. Think about leaving you open for TResponse, Drain while needing to proactively resolve Rods & Standstill. These slots will occupy almost the same play turns, so the smoother is your spells curve, the more linear will be resolve more crucial spells at once.



IMHO, playing a fully accelerated mana base will exclude NRods from maindeck, letting you play MLeaks.
On the other hand, Drains & Leaks & Rods will be redundant. You won't be able to optimize a first turn Leak because of the lack of Moxen due to the Rods presence. Drain and Leaks will occupy the second turn, without improving the number of contemporary protections available.

Turn 1 --> Shaman, Stifle & Pierce
Turn 2 --> Drains, Rod & Standstill
Turn 3 --> Miscellaneous of needs

From my point of view, this is a more armonical standard development for your game plan.


If your grave hate is directed only towards Ichorid, I suggest you Leyline of Singularity & Ravenous Trap
The first one will affect all his board unabling them to attack with critters
The latter will seal the game removing from the game pesky Bazaars & discard effects
IMHO, without the need to Tinker for Crypts against Oath/TPS/Tezz or Needling Fish critters or Staxs creatures, in a UR build, LoSingularity+RTrap will be more efficient and unexpected.
 

This is my current test list.

(11) - Protections
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
3 Spell Pierce

(15) - Board control
3 Fire/Ice
3 Null Rod
3 Stifle
2 Gorilla Shaman
1 Sundering Titan
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall

(3) - Tutors
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Tinker

(7) - Drawers
4 Standstill
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Time Walk

(24) - Mana
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
4 Island
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Strip Mine
 
(15) - Sideboard
3 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Echoing Truth
2 Ingot Chewer

(15) - Sideboard 2
4 Leyline of Singularity
3 Sower of Temptation
3 Ingot Chewer
3 Ravenous Trap
2 Echoing Truth

Hi all,

I'm here to integrate marske cool topic about EuroTPS with my own ( and possibly one of the last combinations of cards ) project, similar to EuroTPS, connected to AlmostBlue and sharing with EuroTPS goals & winning routine.

A lot of cards are different, but deck's shell can be considered quite similar.
* Protections and fixers are the same.
* Drawers choices have been changed to fix a more comboish style
* Winners are BFreezes instead of ToAs but the winning storm routine is enhanced by almost the same support spells.
* Sideboard is a little bit peculiar, but perfectly fits the gaps maindeck may have

Both Zeiby & Marske tried to couple the power of Mana Drains, FoW and Restricted spells in order to win through ToA.
Zeiby, such as me, chose not to play DConfidants, making a counterintuitive choice but a wiser one ( especially in a metagame prepared to face them all almost squeezed onto any deck )
Marske, such as me, tried to minimize the number of winners in order to achieve the maximum flexibility this deck can give to us
I opted, since years, to premiate BFreezes over ToA: their own flexibility, cheap cc & instant speed overwhelm the cons of needing more spells to seal the deal.

The shell I opted to play, support this need at his best. More spells, more chains of spells, more free cc spells, combo routine enhanced to his maximum and an higher number of bouncers.

I'm not here to debate which one is better. It is not the porpouse of the topic.
This list can simply offer another ( solid ) approach to a deck, but with the ability to win in a different way with almost the same storming path

This is the list.
  

I'm sure some choices will buzz people reading list.
Sideboard is both a mix of direct solutions to our worst matchups and a precise selection of cards can change entirely deck's approach to the game, shifting it from pure combo to control.combo

Maindeck is optimized to combo out people' face. A shitload of drawers, cheap resources and a lot of general porpouse spells that, while protecting yourself, can start Storiming opponents out of the game, too.
Sideboard if focused against TPS, Tezz, Stax.
I tried to "cure" Aggrocontrol matchups indirectly: while being a very force in this metagame, being more solid will be enough to win. I'll add discards, needles and Tinker/Sphinx. Hypercosted spells come out and cheap solutions/bouncers will be brought in, leaving opened to you both Storm winning routine and Tinker one.
Against Oath I'll add discard effects and Ichorid, if needed, can see added TCrypts & Needles.

My strategical choice, of putting DConfidant in side is almost for control or control combo matchups, against which DConfidants could be our best friends. Massive drawers or hypercosted spells can be axed by opponents discards effects. A quick DConfidant will give you a better midgame plan and a continous way to refill hand. It will change the approach to the game of the entire deck. This transformational sideboard perspective both intrigued and satisfied me during tests. Opponents can be surprised enough by our post board choices and sometimes they'll add useless cards.

Enjoy,
MAxxMAtt

Suppose to play a list similar to the one masrke proposed at the beginning of the topic.
My own fifteen cards sideboard list will contain ( at now ):

2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Plague Spitter
2 Hurkyll's Recall
2 Echoing Truth
2 Thoughtsize
2 Extirpate
2 Duress
1 Darkblast

I usually don't switch too many cards against well known opponents, unless they are playing some narrow or hatable decks. Anytime I need too many cards to face a deck, I retrospectively find my sideboard choices weird or unfocused.

Duress, Thoughtsize ( possibly Exirpate ) enter in against Tezz, Oath & TPS
Grave Hate against Dragon & Ichorid
PlagueS, ETruth & Darkblast versus Bant, Fish, Beatz
HRecall, Darkblast (& only if opponents have enough redundancy: ETruth ) vs. 2c.Stax, 5c.Stax, WelderMUD, MUD

With possibly the most versatile and flexible cards' choices available for black & blue, I tried to cover different matchups with focused helps: UB version of EuroTPS are solid; they are not going to need too many cards or change too much when facing opponents. I can adapt well the major game plan with minor changes ( such as up to 5 or 6 cards ).

My plan is to add singolar cards capable of dealing with multiple threats trading themselves with a lot of opponents cards.
With this porpouse in mind I choose:

* grave hate*
among the cards able to deal with the most of opponents graveyard: winners are by far Crypts & Extirpate. Entire graves will be eaten in a single shot by TCrypts while Exirpate will shut up opponents winning routes when coupled or not with discarding effects

*control combo hate*
while Duress is my single last 1x1 sideboard card, both thoughtsize & extirpate can break opponents hands or defences. They are able to reach and deal with different ranges of threats, usually slowing them down more than you.

*artifact hate*
despite the fact maindeck proposed is largely able to interact with permanents and opponents board, a quick CotV@1 can be more than a walk in the part to deal with: with this fear in mind, I'll add multiple HRecall, spreading as much as I can the cc of my bouncers, leaving MUDs almost unable to softly lock me with chalices. A single bouncer will neutralize key parts of artifact.dec board. EoT bouncer usually put so much edge in your favour that even if you are forced to repeat the route twice or more in order to win it is simpler for you rather than opponents would consume to hard lock you.

*aggro hate*
I may had made some unusual choices but I will underline here how strong they are for me: instead of stealing creatures from opponents board, I resolve plague spitter with different porpourses. It has a nice body, selfresistant to his own ability, it will instantly kill all the fairies, weenies & elders all around, when killed can erase 2/2 creatures, it isn't ReBable and will help you to shorten your storm routine. It seems great to me. Board will be emptied and only greater attackers will remain untouched: ETruth & Bouncers will completely shut opponents down. Couple them with Darkblast and you'll have a recurring nightmare for Aggro and Aggrocontrol decks.



When you couple

with

You'll soon realize how better will be dealing since game 1 with board instead of spells adding more *spells devoted* sideboard cards during game 2&3.
Barring opponents nearly unstoppable first/second turn wins, you'll be happy to deal with enchantments, creatures & lock pieces ( I'm supposing it will be far more difficult to stop opponents threats from being resolved rather then dealing with them when on battlefield ) with bouncers, blockers & permanents. Counting that Null Rod is one of the most frequent and far more threatening among them, I strongly reccommend you  not to rely too much on Top/Key/Vault and to use them only as subsidiary drawing/winning tools. Again, Spell Pierce need the correct timing to be effective and become a dead draw when opponents start resolving spells before you caught into it. It is correct to think about being able to win even if opponents resolve their threats rather than playing through them such as in the past.

MaxxMatt

Hi all,
I'm back again!

I would like to argue about the summary made by heiner ( because it's a good starting point ) coupling it with the very possible swap between ToA for BF ( with consequent but minor changes of the deck skeleton )


All the arguments made by marske and "Europeans" ( such as KLu, Hernandez, JaimeCano or myself ) about how elegant & surprisingly solid is to kill people with BF instead of ToA should be translated from a theoretical to a pratical lavel in order to be truly embraced. Heiner with his summarization about how marske additions and changes to standard Confidant Drain Tendril Storm lists interact with the metagame let me easily add other comparisons between choosing BF over ToA and having overall better results ** ( skills & knowledge required when playing BF as only kill conditions ...):

Combo: Confidant is garbage, while first turn top can find you another force and repeal is ok as well.
Here, BF is trickier than ToA. You can have a turn, some mana and nothing more while they are possibly killing you on their first or second turn. BF may guarantee some interactions while opponent is going off, both ruining his plans or simply leaving you in a better shape ( "surviving" is far better than "dying" ). You will stop them from using disadvantage tutors for free, possibly blocking winning processes. BF cheap cc ( 1U ) and instant speed is key when you want to interact with opponents winning routine. Opponent's Ancestral in stack, a lot of spells, Freeze them before it resolve and you will usually force them to autodeck themselves. This deck can play winning paths both on his own turn or opponents one. Sorcery speed ToA simply costs a lot without Rituals and can clunk yourself if you are not broken with your 0cc spells
Control: I think both draw engines are good. Confidant sometimes is too slow and I have lost games with confidant because my opponent outdrew me (a quick fact, gifts, tfk) . While they have more control elements rather than you, many times I saw control decks being killed by their own YWill ( all freezed cards are instantly RFG ); your strenght is not to give him any "key" spell to counter and then flow him with cheap and apparently not crucial spells. 2 little BFs ( not lethal if taken alone ) are simpler to achieve than a lethal ToA but their single impact over the game is batter than half killing someone with ToA  because it munch him precious spells. You can couple BF with TCrypt with an even nicer effect: mill them and ruin their plans forever.

Stax: Confidant is just broken.
Here both BF & ToA aren't a perfect choice. Just stabilize as soon as you can and then kill them through your best Robot of choice. Post side you'll add more control tools leaving overcosted spells in you sideboard. Confidants & Robot are your best weapons. Again, even if EtW is strictly better than BF than is fairly better than ToA, I'm not convinced by the third color addition. With a stable mana base, bouncers and robots you can recover from bad positions while losing consistency because of additional dual lands or 4cc.red.sorcery.speed.spell will not help you to ragain an edge over Stax.

Fish: Top sucks because of Rod but repeal can be good. The lifeloss of confidant is often critical but he still is very good. Again, BF & ToA are possibly both suboptimal. Fish will not leave you abuse of both mana & spells,contemporarily depleting your life into the process. Retrospectively, I won more games because of a sneaky single turn with BF rather than ToA. It is harder to have 4 free mana with BB floating rather than exploding with cheap chains of spells and then milling their cards away from the deck. I'm not saying BF is the best way to win, here. Tutor & protect Tinker or Robot if you can and post side stabilize mana base as soon as possible.
  
Ichorid: Confidant can be a time walk because he can block and remove bridges and top/repeal is mediocre as well. In this matchup, BF can transform a mean matchup into a really good one. Milling a deck will win milling itself seems to me too obviously easier than protecting my own cards from being duressed away trying to resolve 10spells and kill him. BF & TCrypt will win entire post side games regardless their own board position.


Oath: I can add some details about this matchup, too. While Oath will abuse of tremendous YWill, being bicolor, tricky with BF and sneaky with your strategy, you'll be able to win more games coupling their own spells with yours. If they are not using GBlessing, Krosan Reclamation will be their own worst friend aaginst your BFs. ToA need more time to be set up. BF will slow him down more than you: you have a better mana base and a more flexible build. Oath is quick and strong if it can abuse of his first 7/8 cards hand.



I'm encouraging you to try to maximize your game options while playing BF during your tests, because it will add more flexibility to a deck ( player ) that will not be easily hated out ( outplayed ): you'll find BF to be as good as ToA game after game. The more the options, the more the fun winning with it

MaxxMatt


<Addendum>
Deck Skeleton
Even if I argued only about BF&ToA, I really appreciate marske interpretation of an old all European deck idea.
The skeleton, during past years, has not changed dramaticaly. KLu evolutions of his own first pet deck, like my own AlmostBlue ( I tag in this way StormDrain based combo decks a couple of years ago and a lot of europeans are referring to them in the same way ) went into this direction since Dark Confidant print. Repeals & Tops are an even nicer addition after Brainstorms restriction

I'm going a bit theorical, now.
FoW, Drains, Repeals, SDTops, Confidants & Restricted cards can be deck defining by themselves.
Deck skeleton is there, in those simple choices.
Fuel them with up to 7-8 different spells due to playstile and you'll have a really strong deck.
Tune sideboard according to both your playstile and maindeck choices.

For my AlmostBlue.dec, I opted for BF+TCrypts and more restricted instead of DarkConfidants. I put them in my sideboard, instead, to power up specific matchups and change decks winning directions during post side changes. A sort of "minimal transformational sideboard". I found this flexibility an over-the-top behaviour of my deck.

Marske approach to this European Storm Deck is really good, as well. I like his choice of a lower mana curve: fewer bombs but cheaper ones. His deck is really really solid. The only changes I'll do without denaturing his project will be cutting red. Two color decks are far more solid than three color ones and the better solutions Red spells will give to him are comparable with the inherent less solid mana base. Against Stax & Fish you'll need a stable mana base as much as EtW, Pyroclasm, IChewer. I don't see an improvement adding better solutions but watering mana bases. For every game won by EtW or Pyroclasm, you'll have one you'll be killed because of your decision to play 3 color instead of 2. More basic lands and Stax&Fish will be "slowed down" in their denial plan as much as killing his critters or loading the board with some Goblins. It is my credo and I think marske deck will benefit a lot from cutting his 3 red spells.

-Recoup
+ Timetwister

-Ingot Chewer
-Piroclasm
-Empty the Warrens
+HRecall
+Duress
+Etruth

I see a lot of potential in this sort of "revamped" PT.Funk deck with some uncounterable finishers.
Starting from the stormanimagus list, I'll mantain deck three coloured but I'll change some cards because of my own style & reasoning


Mana (25):
4 Dark Ritual
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Polluted Delta
3 Swamp
3 Bayou
3 Wasteland
1 Bazaar Of Baghdad
1 Underground Sea
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Strip Mine
1 Mox Jet

Winners (11)
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Tendrils Of Agony
1 Yawgmoth’s Will

Tutors (4)
1 Life From The Loam
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Crop Rotation / 1 Imperial Seal

Protection (12):
4 Thoughtsieze
4 Null Rod
4 Duress

Drawers (8)
4 Night’s Whisper / 3 NW + 1 Ponder
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Necropotence
1 Intuition / 1 Brainstorm
1 Time Walk


*I will play this chain of spells

4NWhispers, 1 Intuition, 1 Crop Rotaion
or
3 NW, 1 Ponder, 1 Brainstorm, 1 ISeal

for different functional reasons.


The deck packs in it two winning paths: fish.like denial aggrocontrol strategy with a final spray of comboish storm finish.
IMHO, splashing blue for so few cards can be considered a waste of solidity and redundancy but both Ancestral & Time Walk are game breaking. Singleton Brainstorm itself doesn't add too much, Ponder isn't needed and perhaps in the same slot/slots we can add Intuition in order to enhance both YWill and LftL. ISeal is really slow, even coupled with DRitual and DConfidants. Without SenseiDTop or multiple Brainstorm effects it is too predictable and not game breaking. I add Crop because of singleton lands, both gamebreaking . I don't know if it is better than ISeal covering almost the same slot, but it add diversity for Tarmogoyf, can save/trade lands when wasted and add storm counts for a cheap cost under YWill or similar situations. I will play with more fetchlands with the benefit of a deeper search for duals and a more stable mana base. Both polluted & bloodstained can search for any coloured land, so I suppose it is a better mana configuration. No more color screw of free wasted land because of dual lands flood on board.

I realize how good this massive disruption spells set can perform supported by a robust beatdown. Opponent aren't supposed to have "a lot of game choices" after a so rude hand's attack. If beatdown isn't enough, you can adjust and improve the clock with a bounce of spells and a quickly tutored ToA. I reduce the final ToA's number by one because I don't really want to see it in my hand so frequently. Tutors are supposed to be enough to guarantee it in your hand when you need it.

I'm not going to argue about disruption sets packed into the deck. 4of Thoughtsize/Duress & Rods are the needed protection cards of choice for NON.FoW.Beatdown based decks. I'm sure some spot removals and selective will be added in sideboard. Inkwell & DSC aren't game loss beacuse of the storm routine and the good winning clock of the entire deck. Rods will stop entire artifact based decks and a lot of artifact based winning routine from being abused against you. Disrupting cards, coupled with Rituals and redundant drawers ( Confidants & NWhispers ) are enough to keep your opponent hand size low and useless.

I will test this configuration a bit more and

IMHO, situation described doesn't leave us so many clever or unseen opportunities to build up a different victory line.
TPS can't go for the throat and consume all his resources to apply 16-18 damages to opponents and then topdeck ad libitum possible new threats

First of all, in a tournament, I'll probably mull to a better 6 cards starting hand but for theoretical reasoning I'll play in this way:

* Turn 1
Mox Sapphire
Mox Jet
Time Walk
Pass

* Turn 1.bis
Upkeep, Vamp for ARecall
Draw, Ancestral Recall
Mainphase, Ancestral Recall

* At now, different scenarios will open up.
If opponent will counter AR, you can rely on topdecking mana sources or spells since next turn in order to refill your hand
If opponent let you resolve AR, you are in a safer position: a land and a protection can be drawn, opening for a lucky Land-->Duress play or a next turn GrimTutor.

Opponent is on the draw, he can Duress you, he can force your ARecall. Into this process he is going to consume at least one land and 3 cards. The net result is both decks are going to stall the needed time to simply refill their own hand, explode and win. Among the possible options available, while the one described isnt' the "stronger" one, it is the most foresighting: it leaves you with cards in hand, possibly new cards if AR resolve, mana fonts on table and it will force opponent to consume at least one FoW and/or a Duress in order to stall you down.

Not that bad, after you decide to play a risky 7cards hand without mulliganing to a better 6. TPS can be explosive even with 5 or 6 cards  in hand, so I'm really confident on mulliganing into a better one.