I'm confused -- what are the monoliths for?  Can anyone fill me in?

Edit: Nevermind -- it's been a while since I looked at that card.

Huh.  That'll teach me to look at cards a bit closer.

Alright, just ignore a large portion of my previous post then ^_^

The Painter's Servant can also be used for minor disruption.  Take for example what happens if you name "Red":

Merchant Scroll can't find anything.
Force of Will + Misdirection now cost 3UU (no blue cards in hand to discard to it)
Sword of Fire & Ice won't stay equipped (itself is red, so when it grants the creature Pro: Red, it will just fall back off.)
Summoner's Pact can find --- mogg fanatic?

How do you determine what is "power level errata" and what is not? Is Lotus Vale errata power level or not? If not, why isn't it? Is Phrx. Dreadnaught power level errata? Or is it rules conversion errata (these updates were for the change from 5th to 6th edition rules, so I'm assuming they are not power level errata, and simply functionality errata, and thus you don't want to change their current erratas).

What if some of the "power level errata" was done to simplify and/or clarify the game, and interactions between the cards? For example, do you want to go back to being able to weld one Phrx.Dreadnaught into another, and sacrifice the one leaving play to the one coming into play? It's much simpler on the rules, and thus on the players who don't delve into the rules, to have the artifact leave play first, and then the new artifact come into play.  But, that would also depend if you feel the goblin welder's errata was due to the power level of that interaction or not.  I don't think it was for the power level, but more for the simplicity of being able to play these cards together.  Thus, it doesn't really fit into any of the categories listed in the article.

But, if you're looking for random problems with removing all power level errata -- be sure to take a look at Parallax Wave. If I animate it with Opalessence (both can be replenished into play without too much difficulty), I can then remove all creatures I want from the game, with no further investment.  Remove a fade counter from the Wave to remove your creature form the game, but in response, remove the wave from the game (with it's own ability).  Then, the stack will resolve to remove the wave, and return all creatures removed from the game back to play -- which will just be the wave so far, and then the next item on the stack will resolve to remove your creature from the game, with no way of getting it back, short of wishing/researching for it.  At which point I can do it again if you do get it back.  Add Parallax Tide to the playing field, and I'll remove all your lands from the game too.

His elf deck is really rather strong.  But, it doesn't exactly have a good game against your deck. ^_^

I'm sure that there would still be some games where he could beat you (depending on draws & such).  I've seen him stuck at 2 lands and race an Oath deck.

If you want to change the target of Animate Dead/Dance of the Dead/Necromancy, then you can only use Willbender -- which, btw, works rather well with Illusionary Mask.

I'm not quite sure how people can make that claim and think it sounds anything but just amusing.  Look at the poor ol' Chaos Orb.

See? You yourself show that you know that your first part is untrue.

And if they ban Yawg Will, you will also know why they did it.


Except, that would be what Steve already addressed in his article (counterpoint #2 IIRC).  There is no slippery slope becasue currently no other card behaves the same way when restricted.  Restricting Yawg Will doesn't significantly reduce it's power -- but every other card restriced does behave that way.

How is it a no-brainer?  They are casting merchant scroll -- which can only fetch something else that can be countered with REB.

Yes, it was a good play, and apparently the right play, but if it was done later on in the game (say, turn 10 or so), it could no longer be the correct play.

Then how does Forsythe state as much about trinisphere in his article that explains the restriction of the trinisphere?



Doesn't Sylvan only use tournament information from tournaments with at least 50 people in it?

... and where would I find that interview?

But does restriction require a dominant deck?  Everyone seems to say that is does, so that there is objective proof that it is bad for the format.  But you're forgetting that WotC has access to more stats than we seem to collect.  They also have access to the number of players who show up for tournaments.

They claimed that trinisphere was "unfun."  In other words, people were disliking the game (or at least the format) because of it's effect.  Some people stuck with it and tried to deal with it the best they can.  Others probably wrote and complained.  Some others I'm sure, decided to stop playing type 1.

There's more to having a healthy format than just a variety of decks that are viable.  A healthy format also includes people wanting to play the format.  When people specifically stop playing in a format because of a card -- then that card is unhealthy for the format.  It doesn't matter if it is a dominant deck or not.  If people dislike the prospect of playing against a card enough to not play in that format, then the format can't really be called healthy. (This is of course that they have access to whatever cards they desire.  It doesn't mean that the format is unhealthy because people can't get ahold of power and thus don't want to face other decks that have it.)

The same thing happened in type 2.  Ravager was rather strong, but there were other decks that were still viable and would top 8, or win tournaments.  But the format was so "unfun" that people stopped playing that format.  This is a symptom of a format that isn't healthy.  And that's what caused them to do something to attempt to fix the format.

The Vintage restriction of the trinisphere isn't that far from type 2.

So IMO there was objective data used to restrict trinisphere.  Something that people seem to want.  It's there, just not in the format you are used to seeing.



But the metagame shifts almost constantly in type 1, even without restrictions.  Certain decks dominate, then get hated out.  It rotates.  So over time, you will get your variety.

What about Waterbury.  A full half of the top 8 (and still half of the top 16 -- except the 1 missing decklist) were Control Slaver.  Where's your variety there?  Plus, if a specific pillar gets weaker, then people will start ignoring it -- so when it shows up, it is a bit stronger than normal because people are not expecting it.  Generally this is a form of what is called metagaming.



Can I hold you to that?  And in what area? Globally? just in north america? the US?

The local metagame around here will be affected by the restriction, but I don't see it being affected in the way that you predict.

So, Long.deck NEEDED to be able to play 4 LED in order to win matches -- so should LED not have been restricted because a deck required it to win matches?

The fact that a deck or two requires the card to be competitive is not a good reason against restriction.  Madness would love to use 4 LED so it can randomly grab games.  Does that mean that we should unrestrict the LED so the deck can have a chance?


So why should workshop decks always be viable?  What makes workshop decks more important than, say, and elf deck?

I'd have to look it up, but you should never back up turns -- especially to the point where a player knows what he or she will be drawing, or an opponent knows of specific spells in another player's hand.

Generally, you leave the game state as is.  If the game has been affected too much by this, I believe (I'm guessing, I'll look it up later) at REL 3 it would be a game loss to the player playing the Drake, and a warning to the other player. (Both players are responsible for such things).

I was the one sitting next to the match who kinda noticed it.  My opponent (dicemanx) was doing something -- tutoring or intuitioning -- and I happened to glance over at the game beside me.  I saw the FCG player with a couple lands, and a lackey in play.  His opponent (U/W I think -- I forget exactly -- I do know it had blue in it though) had a Goblin Piledriver and some land.  I casually asked how he got the piledriver while glancing at the graveyards to see if I could see some effect.  At this point, the FCG player remembers that the piledriver has Pro-Blue.

The blue player quickly checks the text on the Drake (as it was back in his hand at this time) and says it doesn't target.  Myself and another person said that the Drake has a lot of errata, and they should call a judge to see if it does target (I was 98% certain it did).  They did call the judge -- and after the head judge came over, I was rather shocked to see him reversing 2-3 turns worth of actions to set the game back to when the drake came into play.

To make the most use of drains, you need a number of spells that will use up the colourless mana provided by the drains.

Common uses of such mana include:
Intuition/AK
Fact or Fiction
Thirst for Knowledge
Skeletal Scrying
Any high casting cost artifact.

Except for the artifacts, all that amounts to so far is card drawing and countering (from the drains).  So while you can use it all to help out your deck, you still need to focus on some plan to win with the deck.  Drains just let you keep a bit of control, and boost you along that plan if the deck can support the extra colourless mana.

Other formats also have the "oops, I win" factor.  But doing so is usually done late game, and depending on the board state.

Yawg Will is different, in that it is probably responsible for a good 2/3rd if not more of those "oops, I win" situations in vintage.  In type 2, lets say a Ravager deck, it could be the drawing of a ravager, a desciple, a shrapnel blast or a cranial plating -- depending on what is in play.  Yawg will doesn't matter what is in play -- only if your opponent is holding a counterspell or not.  And then it only depends on what is in your graveyard.  Your permanents and your opponents permanents generally end up meaning nothing for a resolved yawg will.

Take for example what happened to someone I know in Waterbury: Both playing TPS, and he manages to get a better board position, while his opponent has an empty hand (and he has some in hand).  Then his opponent draws an Ancestral.  This wouldn't be bad at all -- except that the ancestral drew him D.Rit, D.Rit, Yawg Will.  He then proceeded to win that turn.

Look at the cards in that one turn.  Ancestral, which works well as being restricted.  Dark Ritual, which I've heard arguments for restricting.  Yawg Will.  Of those cards, guess which one won the game for him?

Not the ancestral, as simply drawing cards isn't game breaking (it could have been an AK for 3, and nobody would flinch about that.  Ancestral is better, but simply drawing 3 cards isn't that broken of an effect).

It wasn't the Rituals, because without anything else, the rituals don't do much.

Only thing left is the Will.  So what if the Will was another card?  Best alternative I can think of would be a spoils or demonic consultation.  That would let you spoil/consult for a tendrils, to tendrils for 8.  Possibly a lethal tendrils depending on the game state.  But the Will made sure that he had all sorts of tools available to win right then and there.

The only thing there responsible from an absolutely broken level of play is the Will.  The other effects can be considered broken when compared to other cards -- but the Will is even more broken when compared to these broken cards.

Really, I think everyone who isn't part of that team makes it that way anyways.  And the nice thing is, Meandeck is just basically saying "yes, it's all true."

As for the article, it was nice and somewhat informative.  To me, what would be nice, would be to find out how the various teams discuss ideas (individual emails, or group list, or message boards) and test out ideas (online with apprentice/MWS, in person, etc.)

I'd also be curious if the existing teams have anything like a charter for which the team members are expected to follow: such as not being a spoilsport about loosing to manascrew (I know a friend who gets very, very vocal when he loses in such a manner) or any expectations on lending/borrowing cards from each other for tournaments.

Yes, but...

... how is that comparable at all?

the Lotus Vale doesn't have a restriction on the type of spells you can cast (and you can use it for things suchs as paying for mana leak).  By using it (assuming it had no drawback) you don't restrict what cards you can play at all.

All that means, is that without the drawback, the lotus vale is better than the workshop.  That's not surprising.

You've missed the fact that the workshop costs a land-drop as well (which I believe Toad pointed out already).

Part of the reason that you see all the workshop decks with same couple cards is because playing a workshop really restricts what you can cast with it, which in turn restricts which cards you can play.  That's always the problem I've had with building workshop decks: by playing the workshops, I'm commiting myself to at least 1/2 of the deck being artifacts (that generally cost 3+, so moxes do not count).

Now compare that to having the ability to have 4 LED's.  They produce any colour like a lotus, and can be used for any spell.  Combine it with a draw or Yawg Will on the stack, and the drawback of discarding your hand is negligent.  As well, the LED mana can be used to pay for things such as Mana Leak (I've sacced the LED for that effect many times, and each time my opponent had completely forgotten that it was sitting there in plain sight because of the 'drawback').

Each card restricts what kinds of cards you want in your deck, but the workshop restricts it much more.  And to add to it, the workshop takes your land drop for the turn.

Introduction & Pre-Tournament Stuff

Since I’m pretty much unknown here, I’ll mesh a brief introduction of myself with the general tournament lead-up.  I’ve only been playing type 1 magic seriously for about a year now. I started more with Standard and Limited, then decided to pick up some of the big cards (like drains & power).  I found myself using these cards mostly in casual situations, which I think most people I played with started feeling fed up with, so I turned to have a look at competitive type 1.  I seemed to be drawn to the deck Keeper at the time, so I got what cards I could for it, took it to a type 1 tournament, and got owned.  Really, there’s no other way of saying it.  I then started looking at Landstill decks (since that’s what destroyed me the most…) and picking up cards for that deck.  I later found Star City Games and started reading about type 1 more.  Started going with a friend or two to more type 1 tournaments now and again but never really seemed to do very well.  Then Fifth Dawn came out.

Evolution of the deck aside, I’ve ended up pretty much ever since then playing a Salvager’s deck in type one tournaments.  After putting the first mix of the deck together, I took it to a tournament to see where I’d need to tune it.  Fixed it up, and then started to play it to a couple top 8 finishes while playing against decks such as Dragon, 4CC, Stax, Landstill, Fish, and FCG.

At the latest tournament I was at, Peter O (dicemanx) asked me if I was planning on going to Waterbury.  This was the Sunday before Waterbury, and I really hadn’t looked at it or thought about it.  I think it was Peter saying something along the lines of “… hoping you would come down and show them how Salvagers is done properly” that pretty much had me hooked.  I knew the deck can do well, and I’d never seen anything like it discussed seriously online so I figured it could be a good opportunity to show how effective it can be.

So I decided to tag along to demonstrate just how well Salvagers can do.  So I put the deck back together and head down to Waterbury (for more details on that part, you can read dicemanx’s or Razvan’s tournament reports).  But to sum up, we leave Friday night, arrive Saturday morning and are able to grab maybe 3 hours of sleep before we wake up for the tournament.  I get up, give a bit of advice on someone else’s deck, get a bit of advice from someone else on sideboard options for my deck (Meddling Mages were awesome), fix up my sideboard and register then wait.


Salvagers (Salvaged Control)

1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
4 Volcanic Island
1 Stripmine
4 Wasteland
2 Island
1 Plains
4 Tundra
3 Flooded Strand
1 Plateau

2 Fire/Ice
1 Balance
2 Pyrite Spellbomb
2 Cunning Wish
2 Seal of Cleansing
1 AEther Spellbomb
1 Swords to Plowshares

1 Timetwister
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
3 Brainstorm
1 Fact or Fiction
3 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Trinket Mage

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain

Combo
=====
3 Auriok Salvagers
(1 Black Lotus)
(2 Pyrite Spellbomb)

Sideboard
=======
2 Meddling Mages (last minute addition)
1 Lion’s Eye Diamond
1 Shattering Pulse
2 Energy Flux
1 Rack and Ruin
1 Swords to Plowshares
2 Misdirection
2 Anti-Oath
1 Allay
2 Stifle


Now for the real test – to see how well it can perform under pressure, and under lack of sleep.  (I apologize now for not knowing people’s last names that I played, I just didn’t write it down anywhere).

Round 1:  Vs. Derek playing Burninator

Game 1: This is the first time I’m aware that there *is* a deck called Burninator (which I found out afterwards).  Game one goes pretty much as I expect for playing against a red deck.  He drops a Vise on turn one which deals a total of 2 damage to me.  Despite my deck being mostly a control deck, it tends to keep relatively few cards in hand.  Since my notes don’t include anything other than damage taken, and the source of the damage, it appears that I combo out on Derek, as his life suddenly drops from a full 20 to 0.

Game 2: Not sure what I sided in (again, my notes consist of life totals and damage sources), possibly nothing as I didn’t see much of his deck at the time.  This game goes by with me seeing much more of his deck – unfortunately, it is in the form of an Ankh of Mishra, Scalds, and Price of Progress.  I distinctly recall at one point, of having a Bolt aimed at my head and having the option to take the 3, or to Mana Drain it, and take 4 from a couple Scalds.  The game quickly goes downhill for me.

Game 3: I side in some MisD’s, as direct damage such as bolts and chain lightning are better when pointed the other way.  This game is much closer.  A Pyrostatic Pillar does about 8 – 10 damage, mostly to Derek before I get fed up with it and use my seal on it.  Towards the late game, I get out a Trinket Mage and start beating down with it and finish him off with a Pyrite Spellbomb.

Matches: 1-0, Games: 2-1

Round 2: Vs. Eric playing Control Slaver

Game 1: We both sac a couple fetch lands, trade some force of wills, and he manages to resolve a slaver and slave me.  I look at my hand, see a salvager and a swords, and enough mana to play them both.  I really don’t want to lose the salvagers, so I thirst and discard the swords (and a land I think).  Thinking that my hand is fairly stable, and not able to wreck myself too much, I take my turn, show my hand, and then draw my card for the turn.  Ancestral Recall.  So I end up ancestralling him, and then he ancestrals himself as well with his own.  In a control matchup, this is just really really bad.  Shortly after I’m facing down a 5/5 pentavus and can’t do anything about it.

Game 2: I can remember this game in too much detail for my liking.  I open with a “land, sol ring, go.” (after mulliganing twice on the play).  Eric opens with a fetchland and a lotus.  Sacs the lotus for blue and casts ancestral floating two blue.  Thinking he’s leaving the two for a mana drain and not wanting to give him 5 mana from a drained FoW and the sac land in his post-combat, I let it through.  Then he Time Walks.  No longer having the blue to mana drain, I FoW the walk, and he does the same back.  Sac’s the fetch land, brainstorms, and takes his next turn.  He plays another fetchland, mana crypt and casts Yawg Will.  Now, technically there was more to the game after that, but really, that’s where it ended.

Matches 1-1, Games 2-3

Round 3: Vs. John playing Rector Tendrils

Game 1: Fairly unexciting, I cast a salvagers without any combo pieces, beat on him for 2 for a couple turns.  Cast another salvagers and beat for 4 a couple turns until he’s in the negatives.  Yup, that’s the whole of the game.

Game 2: I saw enough of his deck to know it was a form of tendrils, so I side in my stifles and meddling mages.  A couple turns into the game, I play a meddling mage naming tendrils, but am unable to attack, as he has a rector out and I don’t feel like giving him something stupid like a bargain.  IIRC, he eventually therapies the rector away and gets the bargain anyways (yeah, I should’ve seen that coming).  With no counters in hand, I feel fairly confidant due to my meddling mage – until he keeps drawing and casting cards to balance away my mage then tendrils for the win.  Doh.

Game 3: I get out a meddling mage and a trinket mage and start laying the beats.  Combined with his own city of brass, this is going fairly quickly.  He gets down a memory jar one turn and lets me swing again bringing him down to 3.  His turn, he uses the jar during his upkeep knowing he’s facing lethal damage from the mages on the board.  He casts a couple moxes, and I think a lotus and then tries to duress me.  Unfortunately for him, I had my mana open (all 3 of it) and drew a mana drain, two cunning wishes, and a force in my jar hand.  I drain the duress so he doesn’t see my hand.  Feeling he’s good to go, he demonic tutors with one card in hand – and I force it leaving him with just one card in hand, which isn’t enough for him to do anything else significant before I hit him with the mages again.

Matches 2-1, Games 4-4

Round 4: Vs. Joe playing Oath.

Game 1: Not good, Oath is one of my bad matchups.  In a nutshell, we trade FoW’s, he resolves oath, and hits me with an akroma, then a spirit of the night (I guess I bounced akroma) twice – but I’m unable to find anything to help me.

Game 2: I side in my other swords, and my ‘tech’ cards for the oath matchup.  Now, I must say, Joe was playing very well.  He announced his beginning phase well (specifically stating untap, upkeep, draw) and he was playing through the whole match with a deadpan expression the whole time.  After he resolves an oath, I cast my anti-oath card.  He seems to pause, look at the card, and then break out in a grin fully appreciating the tech I had for oath.  Being the cause of that grin was great – reminds me of the reason a lot of us play: to have fun.  Unfortunately, he countered my tech card.  He oaths up an Akroma and hits me for 6. Ow.  Then he oaths up the spirit and hits me for 12.  Again, Ow.  At this point, I manage to draw what I need, and are able to combo out on him. Too close for comfort. *sweatdrop*

Game 3: He manage to oath up Akroma, which I promptly send farming and then get rid of the oath(?).  I resolve a meddling mage (naming Mana Leak I think) and then start hitting him with his own spirit token and my mage.  That eventually brings him from 25 down to 4.  He takes a point from FoW and then hardcasts the spirit of the night.  However, that gives me enough tokens to be able to rush him for the kill anyways.  He said he just wanted to hardcast the spirit – I can fully understand that desire at that point.

Matches 3-1, Games 6-5

Round 5: Vs. John playing Oath.

Game 1: My notes indicate some sac lands, some forces, some mana burn.  Then an akroma, a swords, then a spirit of the night.  Yup, I lost that one.  I hate trying to play against oath.

Game 2: I manage to resolve a salvagers, and my anti-oath tech.  So I think I let him resolve his oath, because it wasn’t going to bother me at that point. I beat him down with his spirit tokens and my salvagers.

Game 3: I get out a meddling mage calling oath, and start hitting him with it and some spirit tokens.  Then he hardcasts a pristine angel.  My options at this point are very very slim.  He’s got enough instants to keep it protected while still attacking me.  I fall to the angel.

Matches 3-2, Games 7-7

Round 6: Vs. Ethan playing TPS

Game 1: I play first, and he mulls down two cards.  I get out a trinket mage and hit him a bit.  As a desperate play, he tries to tendrils for 12 which I cunning wish and stifle. I proceed to hit him with the mage once more, then I combo out on him.

Game 2: My notes here are pretty thin.  He played first, mulled down 1 card, lost a life to a FoW, then died to my combo.

Matches 4-2, Games 9-7

Round 7: Vs. Max playing Cerebral Assassin (?)

Game 1: Max plays first.  Gemstone, Mox, Demonic Tutor.  Lotus, sac the lotus for blue and tinker the mox into a colossus.  Damn it for not having FoW in hand.  My stellar response to his first turn play is land, sol ring, go.  He swings, I hurt, he says go.  I’m looking at my hand, telling myself I need the aether spellbomb to bounce it.  I draw … not the aether.  So I tell myself, that at this point, I need to thirst, draw a mox and a the aether (so I’d have mana to cast and activate the spellbomb).  First card: not a mox. Second card: not a mox (damnit). Third card: swords (ohh yeah!).  So I play a land and give him 11 life.  Generally with this deck, them gaining life doesn’t matter.  20 life, 31 life, or 500 life, it’s all the same. I then get to play a salvagers, swing for 2, then combo out the next round.

Game 2: Max plays first again, plays a mox, mox, lotus, and says go. I look at it and go “wow – no land, and nothing you want to cast within 5 mana…” I draw and play a land (perhaps a sol ring or a mox, I forget).  He plays 2 or 3 turns of “draw, go.” without playing any land at all.  I draw into a seal of cleansing, and seal his lotus stealing a large portion of his mana.  He sacs it in response for red, and then REB my tundra.  Now, in my defense, I had 3 hours sleep, it was 7th round and I was pretty much just running on adrenaline.  Oh, and the REB was foreign, so I couldn’t read it right there.  So I put the tundra in the yard.  On the other hand, I had the win in my hand – so within one or two turns I combo out on him.

Matches 5-2, Games 11-7

Round 8: Vs Nickolas playing 5/3.

Now this is it.  I win, get 6-2, and hope to make it in to top 16 on tiebreakers.

Game 1: He gets out a first turn trinisphere off playing 3 moxen and a land.  Follows it up with a masticore.  I eventually manage to swords it, shortly after kill of a triskellion (taking 3 in the process).  Then he puts down a 5/3 and hits me a couple times as I can do nothing.

Now this is annoying.  I’ve tested against workshop decks a fair bit, and I know I can beat them, even if they get a trinisphere in the first game.

Game 2: I side in the rack and ruin, the shattering pulse and the fluxes.

I play first, do nothing of note, and watch as he gets another two moxes and a trinisphere. *sigh* Then he plays a 5/3 and hits me before I can drop a flux.  He saves his 5/3 (letting his two moxes, and trinisphere go), hits me for 5, REBs my flux and then casts another trinisphere. I manage to swords his 5/3, and then start removing his artifacts one by one with a shattering pulse with buyback.  He tinkers out a 7/10 destroying my mana base and stopping my pulse with buyback.  I’m forced to just cast the pulse without buyback to get rid of the titan.  By that point I had a salvagers out – and on the next turn or two I draw what I need to combo off.

Game 3: Nickolas starts it off by wondering how much time we have left and as we cut each other’s decks, they announce 8 minutes remaining.  So we both start off and see how fast we can go.  Not much happens, I FoW something, then cast a salvagers with nothing else in hand, and a pyrite spellbomb on the table.  He doesn’t do anything on his turn of note and passes the turn.  I draw a wasteland – nothing.  So I figure, it can’t hurt, and sac the spellbomb for a card – drawing into the lotus for the game.

Matches 6-2, Games 13-8

So I ended up at 6-2, and start hoping for good tiebreakers.  Unfortunately, it wasn’t enough, and I ended up in 24th place.  But I’m happy with that.  I took a deck that I created (mostly) on my own, and tuned over a couple tournaments, and was able to compete with the other tier 1 decks in the largest type 1 tournament I’ve ever been to.

After we (the Canadians) found out how well we did, and that none of us made top 16, we went with a bunch of people (Mark Perez and a bunch of Meandeckers) to TGIFs for some food and drink.  For the most part, I just sat at the table with the other Canadians and Mark and talked about stuff – mostly type 1 stuff.  Then towards the end Stephen Menendian and Kevin Cron joined us around the table as we talked a bit more.  While I wasn’t formally introduced to any of them, it was nice meeting them.

Despite the lack of sleep for the weekend (at about 1am after the tournament, we decided to drive home, and I was waking up every once in a while once we got on the major highways) it was quite enjoyable.  I certainly look forward to doing it again.

24th?  As in 24th place?  I thought that's where I ended up? (With Razvan at 23rd) ^_^

I could be wrong, as at the time the announcements were made, I was kinda tired and only slightly paying attention.  Anyone know where I might get a list of final standings?