Man, I love a good discussion!  Let me throw in my totally worthless internet fueled opinion!!

For starters, let’s review the contract law behind the Reserve List.  A contract has three parts:  (1) a promise, (2) definiteness, and (3) consideration. 

Wizards has promised not to reprint cards in any tournament legal capacity, correct?  That sounds like a promise to me.

Any cards on this list are protected from tournament legal or functionally identical reprints.  That is pretty definite.

Now we have the stumbling block.  Consideration is a legal detriment the promisee (Magic players) suffers.  A legal detriment is giving up something we have a legal right to do, or abstaining from that right.  What are we giving up for Wizards?  Did we promise to give up our money to buy their product?  Did we promise to not walk away from the game?  What are we abstaining from?  Buying Pokemon?  I’d argue there is no consideration for any Magic player.   

So we see the basic contract fails the elements.  However, what about promissory estoppel?  Promissory estoppel in contract law deals with one party’s reliance on a promise. 

In this case, the promise given was no reprints.  We, as Magic players, have relied on it for a long time sinking untold amounts of money into singles.  When we spend hundreds to thousands on Reserve List cards, we do so knowing they will continue to rise due to the promise of no reprints.  Promissory estoppel seems like a good argument.

However, I see an issue in Wizard’s promise itself.  Arguably it is an illusory promise, which is not enforceable. 

An illusory promise is basically “if I feel like it.”  For example, “I’ll give you ten dollars if I feel like it.”  In our case, Wizards promise could be interpreted to say “We won’t reprint these cards if we feel like it.”  That is the effect that no consideration has on promises.  We have to take it on good faith that Wizards intends to honor it. 

I could keep analyzing this, and in fact this is just one opinion on this specific promise.  I’m sure Hasbro lawyers have obviously seen things as a worst-case scenario which is why the “promise” was tightened in 2010.  I think our real problem at Wizards is Type 2 and their business model.

Way back in 1995 they introduced Type 2 to get away from the “collector” mentality that basically strangled Type 1 and caused the Chronicles debacle.  Ever since, Type 1 and Type 1.5 have been dying a slow death.  That death has been steamrolling since the Reserve List was created, and has grown leaps and bounds again since 2010.  Wizards obviously likes their business model of constant rotation (aka Type 2) because it forces people to buy their product. 

Until we can find a way for Eternal players to constantly give our money to Wizards, they will continue to ignore us.  MTGO is a possible outlet, but the mismanagement and general disdain for the software will continue to leave that program in the hands of the grinders.

Eternal masters might be a stepping stone to a potential Reserve List abolishment in some distant future.  If they print things in a Modern Masters style format, nobody is going to lose their shirt, and some cards may keep going up anyways.  I suspect the original artwork/framed cards will be valuable as long as the game endures.  As a person who started in Ice Age/4th Ed, I know I have a complete and utter disdain for the card border changes.  The new artwork direction is also utter crap.  I will forever crave original printings. 

I hope this puts our argument in some perspective.  I submit we need to stop worrying about the Reserve List and start coming up with ways to entice Wizards with a sustainable form of money from our community. 

I voted no.  I have all the cards I need other than P9.  My P9 is CE.  Although currently I don't own a Time Vault, I plan to buy one before the next tournament I enter.  Also, I am in the Ohio region, so I have played with the Serious guys.  Great group!

People like to own real cards, plain and simple.  Proxies are great if you want to test the water out, but they won't keep people in Vintage.  The real staying power is to allow new people to own the cards for real.  If legalizing gold borders increases, even by a handful, that group then it would be worth it. 

It'll never happen, though, so gold borders are just the best proxies you can buy; unless you prefer alternate art and/or foils.

That is a really interesting rule.  My gut reaction was 'must mulligan every time', but obviously that is stupid.  It's a pretty powerful incentive to induce mulliganing, though, especially if you are on the draw.

The only possible application I have heard discussed so far is Modern Affinity.  Everything else is just jank supporting jank.  Having played many flavors, and formats, of Affinity, a 4-of draw 7 would be quite helpful.  However, Vintage already has an abundance of useful draw 7s that don't have drawbacks.  Hence, why this card may only be useful in Modern.  I guess we'll see how it all pans out.  Brew away!

I could never snip my corners, but that looks like a really nice tool nonetheless.

Just snap a Lightning Greaves on this puppy and go to town!

They should've just done a monthly subscription that gives you access to every card printed.  But, apparently giving players what they want would just be too easy for Wizards.  That is why I will never play MTGO; a real-life overpriced market for tree fibers is already almost too much, so paying again for intangibles is total BS.

Great article, Joe.  I really enjoy interviews with Vintage celebrities.  Keep 'em coming.

It sucks that Vintage can't consistently fire.  For those who are invested in MTGO, why isn't everybody playing?  What's really going on causing Vintage to fail online?  Is it the prize support?  Is it the buggy V4?  Is it lack of tournaments or the time they are scheduled?  I can't answer any of these as I don't use MTG Online, but for the future of the format, we need to figure these things out so the whole community can keep growing. 

I just peel the foil off and then print directly on the card using my printer.  That way you get nearly exact card thickness so it plays nicely with the rest of the 'real' cards in the deck. 

My friend does the super fancy way of printing onto transparencies, cleaning foils, and then gluing the entire 75 together so all have the same thickness (usually double a normal card). 

Frankly, I'm not a fan of all the alternate artwork proxies people use, as I cannot immediately identify the card without the classic artwork.  However, I also recognize that using the original artwork is likely illegal due to WOTC copyright protection, so I don't blame them at all for pimping out their proxies. 

Anybody who grew up on MTG in the 90s considers TimeTwister as part of the P9, regardless (regardless?) of it's current level in today's metagame.   

I think the point of the writer's article was just to get discussion going.  That was also my intent here by reposting it.  I'm 99.999999999% sure WOTC will never legalize gold border, but it's fun to discuss, even briefly.  It beats another similarly pointless reserve list discussion anyways.

I've been playing my CEs at home in DragonShield sleeves for the last several months.  I can't tell any difference between them and a 'real' card while single sleeved.  However, I'm also not TRYING to find them (aka cheating).  I could see using double sleeves as the card stock is not actual Magic stock from what I can tell (very thin and bendy).  The square borders make no difference when I'm shuffling or playing in my experience, either.  I just like them because they are basically Beta reprints and put my homemade proxies to shame that I had been using.  I just can't imagine them ever being tournament legal for many, many reasons, but as I mentioned it's a fun argument to read nonetheless.   

Did anybody else see this?

http://legitmtg.com/competitive/legalizing-gold-bordered-cards-for-eternal-formats/

I can't see it ever happening, but ironically enough I just bought CE power and a time vault because they are so cheap. Like late 90s cheap. The BB is awesome but they still aren't real in a sense. It's a fun argument to read regardless.

Dang you Joe, you prompted me to buy a Jitte yesterday!!   

Sorry I don't have much constructive feedback.  Having left Magic during Exodus (apropos, no?) and returning for Worldwake, these are interesting historical writings.  I enjoy the decklists and classic commentary by the writers of the time (Oscar, etc), but otherwise I can only read and wish I had kept playing.  The constant grind of my playgroup in the 90s gravitating towards Type 2 only, and influx of sets combined with minimum wage hours financially drove me out of the game.  My entire nostalgia for Magic stems from the first few months of 1995 coming in with Ice Age, 4th ed, and Alliances.  I also remember being fascinated with the Mirage block dragons, because at that time we'd only seen Red ones, so spreading out to the other colors was beyond awesome for me. 

I rarely play anymore, and only keep up with Vintage tech just to 'be in the know' more than to actually play.  I've been up to the Team Serious tournaments in Columbus, OH several times, but I probably won't make it back for several years due to my enrolling in Law school this fall.  I may not even be able to play casual Vintage constructed either, so it's going to be writing like yours that will keep me involved during my endeavors. 

Keep up the good work, as I look forward to reading more.  I'd also ask to get this all in full print/bound some day when you finish your full 20 years, as that was your initial goal I believe (20 years, not so much a physical book). 

Another nice addition to the series, well done! 

Nice article. I think you should interview Menendian next and ask about his History of Vibtage series. Get it some more spotlight for the MTGO crowd since it's been a couple years since his last one. It really helps one appreciate the richness surrounding Vintage and is a great history of Magic to boot. It's a very nice complimentary piece to Titus' book.

I watched this last night.  I found it was really balanced between current standard and vintage formats.  However, it was painful watching the guys play without sleeves.  I'm sure I saw Beta duals and power in their piles...

Jacob Wilson also reminds me of the lead actor in Burn Notice...or is it just me?

I just picked up two Italian Mana Drains.  They are pretty interesting.  I'd never bought any Italian Legends before.  They feel like black bordered Chronicles...except way cooler.

Nice. I almost brought that genesis chamber list last year to one of the Columbus Serious opens, but in testing I was getting such terrible hands I went back to burning oath.

I picked one up. Thanks for the heads up!

I usually play the pitch variation because counter spells rock. I'm a terrible player and you can still just goldfish wins with this archetype. 

Joe, very nice article!  I really loved Titus' book as well and found it hard to put down.  I just re-read it a month or two ago and it's just as good.  I wish he would get it printed in paper so I could put it on my bookshelf.

Nat, I always enjoy your articles.  This sounds like a fun engine to play around with.

Man I wish we had this in Cincinnati.  You guys are just a bit too far to drive.  Enjoy!

Yes, I refuse to play MTG Online.  It's a ridiculous concept paying for cards twice basically (at least if you play paper).  And yes, playing Legacy and Vintage decks in paper is beyond awesome!

On topic, I love playing Vintage Oath decks, so if you keep writing about yours it'll make for interesting reading for me.  I've been playing the Pitch Burning Long variant as of late.  I just can't pay for a tournament with some blue to back me up, as much as the original Burning Long appeals to me. 

Another fun article.  I, too, also love(d) Legacy Reanimator and Sneak and Show.  However, I got out of Legacy a while back as the direction of the format was just not fun for me anymore.  During that period, though, Vintage picked up through the roof so it was easy to transition fully.

Another fun listen.  I really liked the interview at the end.  I would suggest future podcasts continue in that vein by chatting with Vintage notables.

As for the main point of Probing, I have to say you guys have put way more thought into that card than I thought possible.  To be fair I'm a terrible Magic player, so I really don't dig too deep into these sorts of issues with a card.  Having said that I just dumped a playset of Probe in a casual deck to play in the near future.   

I believe I read your article.  I usually check the feeds via my Decked Builder app on my iPhone.  I'm also partial to Oath decks being that when I play tournies (which is very rarely) I am playing Oath anymore.  My preference is the Pitch Long variant, but the control versions are also fun, too.

I don't have any tips for you on the deck (as I'm hardly qualified to do so), but I enjoyed the article and enjoyed the Vintage shout out.  I'll keep reading if you keep writing.