My only regret is the lacking in combinations of race/class combo's.  I mean it may seem like there are a lot of options, but really there aren't as many as there should/could be to inspire a little more divercity.  Ah well.  Come to think of it...  Scratch that, I'd rather we had more appearance customization choices then anything, too many people look the same!!!

I just wanted to start the thread to get some information posts, like race/class/server and such out there.  The other post looked more like a discussion rather then just information gathering.  =)

If anyone plays please PM me or email me, either one.

I'm looking for a good server with some friendly faces on it!  

Or you could just post your Server and Race here, so I have an idea which server/affiliation has the most of us playing on it!

Thanks!  

OK, since I can't find my old thread to revitalize then here's the deal...

If you live in/near Arkansas, specifically around Conway or Little Rock, and you see this (duh) then post, send me a PM, an email, or something.  I'll buy you a free dinner/lunch/whatever you want!

Since I can't figure out a better way to see if we have any members in that area then I figure free food always tends to turn up people, right?  I'll be moving down there in a little less then 2 weeks, so don't be shy!

Surely we have at least 1 or 2 Vintage players in the area out of 2500+ members...  

So remember, don't be shy folks!  Free food for helping me find a new place to play!  

My only comment on this, at the moment, would have to be that many people who run Wish in 3x or so have started to sideboard a kill card just to escape the scenario where all your win conditions are removed from the game.

Grant it, my experience to this end is limmited to simply 4CC (and variations), but running a Volcanic Geyser can help dodge this card pretty good.  Meaning that even when I got hit with an Extraction for Angel, and then later for Gorilla Shaman (I mean really...), it looked as though I had no wins left in my deck.  Since we no longer run targeted draw cards then it was pretty much a game-over situation that a Sideboard Geyser helped avoid.

Is this the perfect choice?  Eh, hardly.  I just couldn't think of anything better to use when I was playtesting some varios forms of my 4CC decks this past weekend.  Perhaps another easier choice for a kill-card it can't touch would be a Mishra's Factory or a Faerie Conclave.

Point being...  I had several people trying to break this card, and when it does work then it works VERY well.

I guess I bring all this up because to me the question of how good is a card like this depends entirely on how easily it is dodged in the first place.  So, how easy is it to ensure you have a method to kill with after getting hit once or twice?  Very.  The thing is, the card does extremely well against decks that rely very heavily on one or two certain cards.

When we look at decks like Deathlong then we can see it isn't as useful, because the number of cards you would need to remove are quite staggering.  I mean the deck can really take a few of these and not even get slowed down.  In the middle road, we see decks like Control Slaver where the first one can almost wrap up the game since the Goblin Welders will start watching from the sidelines, never to return.  Sure the deck can still win, but it's a LOT harder.  Then finally we have good old 'Tog decks, where one Extraction pretty much ends the game right there.

In other words, the card is already not good against the majority of the decks, since while it can be a hard hit it won't win the game for you, with the sole exception of 'Tog decks.  To me this just means that the card can be powerful, but it's potentcy depends entirely on the metagame it's used in.

I mean if you're playing decks ranging from 4CC to Stompy then this card is utter shit.  On the other hand, if you're playing a lot of 'Tog and Welder decks, it could be more useful.

This just isn't one of those cards that people are going to be randomly slapping into decks left and right.  I've heard this compaired to Mind Twist by some people already and that just isn't the case.  I'd never take the Twist out of my 4CC, and I'm not afraid to cast it against anyone.  Are they playing Welder?  So what, Twist is only bad if they have an active Welder out and if they have that then I've got bigger problems anyway; and this is the only time I can imagine Twist ever being bad.  Cranial Extraction just doesn't have a kick like this...  It's not as generic, and can't be so easily played out.  Basically, it's not as broken.

So then, what good is it?  I'd rather have Twist honestly, since it's better and has a more generic use.  So then Extraction is better against decks revolving completely around 1 or 2 cards, right?  Which decks are these?  Actually, let me clafify, how does this card help the decks that are weak vs. decks like these?

Honestly, I think this card would have been completely broken if you looked at the opponents hand and THEN named a card to search for to remove.  Then you'd have a better idea of what to name...  I mean when you look at thier hand and realize they are playing Stacks and not some other random Workshop.dec then you could have made a better choice in the naming of the card.

The problem that gets me here is the blindness factor.  So many Workshop decks look the same right now that, while you can obviously name Goblin Welder just because they played out a Workshop you really don't know how much that will cripple them.  Hell, you could name Welder then suddenly get a flood of Juggernaughts and Su-Chi all over your ass and it was pointless.

Now that I've rambled on for what seems like hours...  I just think it's too 'clunky' for the metagame we have going on right now.  There is enough variety to keep the card in check.  At the same time though, it's awesome in that it sort of curbs the possible appearance of 1-card bombs in future sets.  This sort of brings to mind an example like Worldgorger...  If everybody was playing a shitload of Dragon decks and 'Tog then this card would be insane, and basically win you the game whoever cast it first.  This card also prevents metagames from such degeneracy...  On the other hand, not only is that not the case now, but it isn't likely to happen either.  In which case, that makes the card much less potent.

Of course, I could also be complely full of shit.  

WTF?!?  WHERE!!!?!?!?!?

Yes, congradulations...  congratulat...  congratg...  WAY TO GO!!!  Good job!  

It's pretty hard to pick one of these, I think, because I love all of his movies.  I guess I had to pick 'Strikes Back' though because I love all the cameos and how so many stars are making fun of themselves in it.  

WTF?!!  This is about golf?!?  Man...  Shit, I thought this was a tread about Winona Ryder's tits or something...  $#^%$#%&#$!!!

Maybe so, but it mad the thread a funny read.

Well, on the other hand...  Black is all about sacrifice, and basically with this in Black it's sacrificing a host of other cards at it's disposal in order to get a bear.

Plus, to me this doesn't really seem like a 'rules' issue from White...  I think of this more as a grimy little bastard imp who keeps screwing up my Demonic Tutors when I have my back turned. -lol-

But, I didn't make the card so maybe that wasn't what he had in mind.

Well in that case...  I'm sorry I read that response the wrong way GI, and I apologize.     I thought was pretty rude to just throw out there like that so I'm glad I was mistaken.

Well I'd say right off that you don't need to bother with SB draw unless you are playing 2-3 Wishes.  When I look at builds with just 1 Wish I wouldn't expect the SB to be altered in the slightest to accomidate it.  Basically 1 Wish just means you want a generic answer of some sort in the main deck so you don't get shut-out by something quick and lame.

On the other hand, with 2-3 Wishes Gush does look pretty good, since you can basically get it for the 3 mana of the Wish.  This just leaves you with more mana for countering and sometimes that's why you're trying to draw cards anyway...  Just to snag a counterspell.  To this end Gush seems to work very well, but it all depends on what your desired outcome is.

Personally I think that 2 Wishes in Control Slaver, along with a Stifle and a Gush in the SB, are pretty darn good ideas, because it just opens up the flexibility of the deck a little.  But, to get back more on the topic, I can't really think of anything else that you really might be wanting that's cheap enough to work here.  Gush works because of the mana investment required...  I don't think anything else will fit your bill, unless you're opening yourself up for more costly spells, and if so what casting cost range are you looking at?

I dig Clowns ideas even better then my own, but this guy was trying to make a Budget build, so can you work up another decklist for the thread without using the Power?

Yea, it's clever.  I'd like to see it at though, so it could potentially see more play over the various formats, being just generally more 'splash friendly'.

ARG!!!  And here I thought I stumbled upon something interesting and cool in my boredom at work.  

I guess so, but erm...  Can it actually be an Artifact Land - Equipment?

Well I don't see a casting cost, so I assume .  In this case I would suggest:  Casting cost , and equipment cost .  This differs it from the Paradise Mantle a lot more, and since it only makes mana then it's note quite as abusive.  Basically, when you have it out every creature you have is also a Llanowar Elf.  That's not bad, and hardly broken.  

No, you posted to show an example of a BUDGET Oath deck, and not a very good one either.  Thus the commentary.

Now, on to bigger and better things...

The colors you are going to use depend completely on what power you have available.

Hell, you don't even need a creature at all.  The KroOathian Sideboard won many a tournament in it's day vs. Aggro, and with the new land you don't even need them to have a creature anymore.  There's no reason it won't work now if that's what people want, and it didn't even use an Attack Phase.  Hell, it won the very turn Oath activated, with a Stroke of Genius at the head for about 30 million cards.  But, it takes a fully powered deck to do it.  I suppose you 'could' do it on a budget build, but without the Moxxen/Lotus it's rather pointless as it would be ages and ages slower.

This would be the best movie ever:

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-main.html?2004-05/14/12.00.film

We have military videos very much like this that aren't made as joke at all.  And I mean VERY simular.  Fear that.

Could this not be at so that it's more friendly for other decks it could be abused in?  Or are you trying to make sure it stays in Black for flavor?

Aha, that explains it, Army has those sites blocked, they are categorized as "Chat." so I'll probably be able to see it at home.  Thanks though.  

Are these pictures anywhere else?  The link seems to be broken, maybe just for me, and I can't find them on MTG News where the picture seems to originate from.

I went to the link about that movie and a review said:


-LOL-  Yea, you were right, some of these really are pretty damn funny.

What are we calling a PTQ-style format?  Are you referring to one with rampant net-decking, or one where people are actually testing decks, and adjusting for the metagame, and/or just playing a deck because of the metagame?  I ask because, from what I hear, Waterbury demonstrated the opposite of this, that people just ignored the damn metagame and played whatever they wanted anyway.  

That's a pretty bad attitude, considering the cost is only $10 and it's sanctioned that's a nice little fairly unique prize anyway.  Most people would attend this just for the prospect of ratings points alone.

Of course I'm 1500 miles away myself, so I won't be going either, but still.  

In other words, when your opponent activated Mindslaver and you had a Zuran Orb out he likely peed himself a little.   :lol:

That's an excellent point, because while it certainly can be Misdirected back at you, then you can still just name Chaos Orb or something, and then proceed to search through your own Hand, Graveyard, and Library for all the Chaos Orbs found within.  If you find any then hey, you were gonna loose anyway so screw it.  -lol-  (Well, OK, unless you're playing 5-Color then I guess that wouldn't apply...  Damnit.   )

Karakas is pretty good, from Legends.  It basically bounces a Legend, taps for , and has nice poetic flavor text that is very much in theme.  This also works well since there are a lot of Samurai Legends in the new block, and as a bonus...  If you can find one then odds are you can get it for like $1 or so.