Latest posts of: glenchuy

aether spellbomb is very good against oath as it comes down on turn 1, and can save your welders if they board in helion on game 2 (to nuke welder + platinum) - also does collateral damage to dragon-

i run 2 lava darts against the control slaver mirror, but run 3 viahino heretic in the sideboard instead of RnR/pulse because it the damage it deals makes it another threat instead of just slowing the game down- (against stax)

ReB can be used in the slaver mirror- they counter your opponent's TfK's and FoW's/mana drain- which can be huge- even if you board in only 2, the mind games one open volcanic island can do to your opponent can be staggering if he knows you're packing ReBs.

Quote from: StarOrc

Quote from: Godot

Quote

Fire/Ice can tap a Trinisphere so you can play out spells on your turn as well as drop any Moxen you've been holding back as well as take out two welders. Corey

this is usually one of the few stuff people overlook with f/i. i have no idea why, but people often forget that trini shuts off when it's tapped.

however, it is my opinion that it is still best to run the 4th color. red (with ReB, mutation, RnR) is just too good against stax and shop aggro- although, you could run e-flux/h-recall on tog for the stax matchup. (not as good as the red SB cards though)

cutting green is obviously another option, but that would cut artifact mutation as well, you'll also loose deed and oxidize (i like RnR better- since imo, it's still as effective under trini) but imho, what hurts tog the most witht he loss of green is the loss of berserk.

yes it can still win without berserk, but in tournaments where there is a strict 45-60 minute rules for matches, you'll drag the game so long into the match that you'll most likely never finish 3 matches especially if you're playing against another control player. also, playing the full 60 minutes on EACH round is really taxing on a control player- playing 7 rounds of swiss for 60 minutes (7 hours straight), and then having to go through the T8 (now without time limitations- which means, it could extend to well over 1-1/2 hour per match- is really physically demanding)

i know the last part i pointed out is probably pointless when comparing which deck is better, but in long tournaments, fatigue also plays an important role, as the more tired you are, the more play errors you make.

Quote from: slighguy

1-ambassador laquatus

spells//
1-ancestral recall
1-timewalk
4-animate dead
1-lions eye diamond(i replaced the pearl with this is it a good idea??)

land//
4-bazaar of baghdad
4-wooded foothills
1-wind swept heath
1-forest
2-tropical island
4-taiga
4-bayou

black is essential to the deck, so instead of branching out to other colors, try using more black cards so that you'll justify using it and not just be splashing black for animate dead.

+2 duress/+1 duress +1 therapy
+3 cabal therapy

-1 lion's eye diamond
-1 ancestral recall
-1 timewalk
-1 mox sapphire
-1 gorilla shaman (or you can keep it and drop duress and run 4 therapies)

therapy is also useful in the rare occurence that you get a dragon in your hand but you don't have an outlet to discard it.

LED isn't really needed, you can't really use it to fuel your animate deads since you end up discarding them when you activate LED.

by dropping your blue cards (and obviously, the 4th color) you can strengthen your mana base becasue you can now afford to run basic lands which will make sure that you don't get screwed when you need black mana to cast animate dead but all of your black sources have been wasted.

4-bazaar of baghdad
4-bayou
4-taiga
3-bloodstained mire
2-wooded foothills
1-forest
1-mountain
1-swamp

finally, since you're already running red, you might want to run hellkite instead of laquatus since gaea's blessing screws up your plan, and we all hate oath Razz

. in the worst case scenario, you can animate hellkite and swing.

-1 ambassador laquatus
+1 shivan hellkite

you should drop blue to reduce being hosed by non-basic collateral hate. e.g. CoW.

This post *also* needs more content. It's pretty much par for the thread at this point, but you could have at least suggested some cards to add.

-Jacob

Quote from: Serin

Have you tried during the testing including the madness creatures? even fiery temper to remove opposing welders could work... (haven't tested them).

temper, with the only viable outlets being 4 mongrels? :shock:.

btw, the more i play the deck, the more times i find that i have survival and goblin in play, AND have nothing to weld out. i'm starting to like shield sphere too. but i still can't figure out what's the "weakest" link in the deck to cut!

Quote from: JesseRiver

Viashino heritic sems like a very good idea in a artifact infested metagame.

yes, like what i've already mentioned above, the anger makes the summoning sickness of heretic negligible. also, for nuking welders, have you tried ticking gnomes? you can fetch and shoot, and doesn't need anger, or consider fireslingers it's 2CC, only needs to tap, and with wonder, it doesn't have summoning sickness.

sorry, i chickened out a few hours after i posted that i'm playing it and played u/g survival instead since i just didn't have sufficient testing to justify playing the deck, and mostly because i just lost randomly at testing.

but i'm currently testing the version with black now. will see how it goes.

Quote from: WildWillieWonderboy

clamp is pretty good against orchard as well, and as long as you have a witness in hand and one in the 'yard, it is in fact an engine.

I also think this is a deck for hearth kame, because his versatility can save space.

if you're using hearth kame, why not just use viashino heretic instead? dealing 8 damage and nuking their titans is cute. hearth kami can't really take out huge artiFAT, and the summoning sickness is easily negated by anger. (cheaper activation too!) and immunte to F/I

thoughts about adding/replacing a color with black?

black gives duress, restricted goodies and withered wretch, which gives me additional hate against welder/dragon game 1. anyway, just tinkering with it, as i've always like the old rec-sur decks of old. (i thought of recurring nightmare too, but it couldn't be fetched by SoTF... maybe if i drop to 1 welder and MD 1-2 recurring nightmares, add CoB to the mana base and tinker with it even more... duress is certainly a boost against combo if you go first. at least now it just doesn't roll over and die to combo game 1.

this deck is fun, i'm playing it in our tourney tomorrow and put up the final list tomorrow when i get back home. hopefully i don't get trashed so much by playing a rogue deck Very Happy

Quote from: Negator13

<snip>This makes the list, as of now: <snip>
2 Goblin Welder
1 Regrowth
4 Survival of the Fittest

i like the deck a lot, and have begun testing/playing with it. and during testing, my concerns are-

1.) what to do when SoTF gets countered-
the plan was,
- 1.1) to go the goblin welder route
- 1.2) to recur SoTF via witness and try again

2.) the problem i'm encountering however, with the reduced number of goblin welders is-
- 2.1) fewer welders means that you can't rely on them on them as often and have to rely on SoTF to get them out.
- 2.2) if you have to rely on SoTF to get the welders out, and SoTF gets countered, then you're back to square 1.

so how about upping the welder count back to 3?

3.) is regrowth really that useful? the more i play it, the more i dislike it. i'd rather have another utility creature- like gilded drake, but i must admit, it does act like SoTF #5- (but you already have 4 witnesses)

4.) this might be slightly unrelated, but my meta is goblin welders.decks all the way, so currently my SB is

4x mutation
4x xantid swarm
2x viashino heretic

i have no idea how to board against combo... i just flat out lose against belcher and tendrils.

Quote from: Jebus

I'd like to know what he is using between each layer.

silicone

(buy the clear ones)

how bout playing it in 4CC or slaver?

4CC
ancestral recall, demonic tutor(to get yawgwin/walk), mystical tutor (to get yawgwin/walk), vampiric tutor (if you run it, to grab yawgwin/walk) or if you don't play vampiric, get wish (which grabs vampiric, which grabs will) or exalted or even just scrying.

control slaver/titan
FoF/TfK, ancestral recall, demonic tutor (for yawgwin/walk), mystical tutor (for yawgwin/walk)

or

big fat artifact, TfK, demonic tutor (for yawgwin/walk), ancestral recall-

might as well post again here:

//NAME: Belcher 1.5 v1.4
// Mana (34)
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Dark Ritual
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Land Grant
4 Tinder Wall
4 Chrome Mox
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
2 Mana Cylix
2 Cabal Ritual
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
// Win Condition (4)
4 Goblin Charbelcher
// Tutoring (7)
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Brainstorm
// Utility (10)
4 Goblin Welder
3 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Xantid Swarm

i opted for the 2 land version because i always preferred it over the 1 land version, needless to say, this is just another starting point to discuss both versions in the new 1.5 environment.

since goober already presented a list with spoils, i opted for the enlightened + bainstorm route, WITH TfKs-

the swarms are in anticipation of FoWs, but if it can alternatively be duress or oxidizes.

you can also cut 1 or 2 cabal rituals to fit more duress/oxidizes.

the cylixes make enlightened playable since now it has 10 (4 sphere, 2 cylix, 4 petal) white sources (not counting mox + LED) so it shouldn't really be a problem casting it.

yes, enlightened is one turn slower especially if you can't get brainstorm-

i really think TfK is bette than whispers due to it's added interaction with welder, and it does save you 1 mana- 3 + weld (instead of 4 to hardcast) the problem is, you'll definitely have to run 2 lands to prevent screw- unless you load up on the cylixes-

another card i'd like to try are ingots, they're pretty decent during testing, and they provide mana on their own, however, the question arising from using ingots would be, are they now fast enough for 1.5?

also, with the emphasis on fast mana via moxen, petal, LEDs, will this lead to chalice now being a viable card for 1.5?

how are the spellbombs going? well, it's another thing to tap with tanglewire-

at last! something interesting to read about t1 on wizards! mad props to you. very good read.

although

on FCG

Quote

Fish: This should be a favorable matchup for you. Fish can't deal with infinite goblins.

i always thought FCG vs fish was a 50/50 matchup?

Quote from: Gandalf_The_White_1

TFK seems strong(I am not sure about the artifact count without testing, though), but I don't like deep at all. It is extreamly difficult to cast without drain mana or a tog to discard it to.

you can discard DAs from TfKs. i tested more drawing since i find that 4 whispers only is just lacking

Quote from: BreathWeapon

Has anybody tried Bargain as Potence #2?

Quote from: Vegeta2711

Bargain, I've found, was always too expensive for me to consistently cast.

i use bargain in mine. it might be difficult to cast sometimes, but the simple truth still remains- it's an "i win now" card when you play it. i've played it in IRL tourneys, layed it down first turn and won right there or on the second turn.

oh, here's my list

//NAME: Belcher v.1.6 (61)
// Mana (37)
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Dark Ritual
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Land Grant
4 Tinder Wall
1 Cabal Ritual
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Channel
1 Chrome Mox
1 Grim Monolith
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus
// Win Condition (5)
4 Goblin Charbelcher
1 Darksteel Colossus
// Tutoring (6)
2 Brainstorm
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Tinker
// Draw (7)
1 Timetwister
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Memory Jar
1 Necropotence
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Windfall
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
// Utility (6)
3 Goblin Welder
2 Living Wish
1 Yawgmoth's Will
// Sideboard (15)
SB: 3 Xantid Swarm
SB: 1 Naturalize
SB: 1 Bone Shredder
SB: 1 Gilded Lotus
SB: 1 Oxidize
SB: 1 Elvish Lyrist
SB: 1 Gemstone Mine
SB: 1 Goblin Welder
SB: 1 Deconstruct
SB: 1 Ancient Tomb
SB: 1 Scavenger Folk
SB: 1 Uktabi Orangutan
SB: 1 Tolarian Academy

i've really wanted to fit the 2-3 swarms MD too, but the deck's already so tight...

Quote from: BreathWeapon

How many quality U cards can the deck run before it hits Chaff?
4xBrainstorm

well, you can play 2x Bstorm, 2x Lim Dul's Vault.

i'm currently running the 2 land version, but yes there are times when i drop a turn 1 belcher, belch next turn, run into first land, belch next turn, run into another land, and then have opponent drop rod.

i haven't tested the 1 land version yet, but playing the 2 land version, there are already games where mana is so tight, getting to choose between which lands to pick on land grant is clutch-

i suppose bayous would be the better land to leave- but then, dropping tropicals would only leave you with (loti, LED, 2x mox, petal, 4x sphere = 9) as opposed to (everything mentioned, 4x grant, 1x trops = 14) and sometimes those 14 is even short!

for brining me back into t1, when i almost quit back in USaga due to disgust. my hat's off to you! hopefully i'll still get to play you in tourneys... i still owe you a win Wink

(hulk smash mirror, we ID, i advance Wink

haha, good times man.)

has anybody else done any extensive testing with the TFK + DA for card drawing (backed up by whispers of course)? i find the visions is umm... lacking, if you run a full complement of jewelry + crypt (which i do) TFK can be huge, and fills up the yard real quick.

fastbond + yawgwill is sick. however, it is really just useful if you draw will- which in this case, you should be winning anyway- also, since i use DAs, i can't afford to lose any more life since i'm already losing so much life.

//NAME: GAT
// Mana (22)
4 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
3 Flooded Strand
2 Island
2 Polluted Delta
1 Strip Mine
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
// Control (12)
4 Force of Will
3 Mana Drain
3 Daze
2 Misdirection
// Beatdown (6)
4 Quirion Dryad
2 Psychatog
// Cantrips (20)
4 Brainstorm
4 Night's Whisper
3 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Deep Analysis
2 Cunning Wish
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Gush
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth's Will
// Utility (1)
1 Mystical Tutor
// Sideboard (15)
SB: 3 Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 3 Ground Seal
SB: 2 Stifle
SB: 2 Gilded Drake
SB: 1 Naturalize
SB: 1 Berserk
SB: 1 Coffin Purge
SB: 1 Fact Or Fiction
SB: 1 Oxidize

it's been working fine, but i really do miss the red splash, especially since my meta is welder infested.

landstill already rapes sligh/suicide/stompy. disks take care of everything. FCG is tricky... BeB should do the trick since bolts-f/i can take care of first turn lackeys already.

@ Jacob Orlove's jar.dec-

didn't extended jar.dec contain 4x goblin welders?

Quote from: jazzykat

I like a slightly higher basic island count as I am always using blood moon. Also where is the LOA :0

oops. it's a typo, it should have an LOA, sorry, my bad.

Quote from: The Hamburgler

Glenchuy
I am still perfecting â€œworkshopâ€? Slaverâ€™s manabase. I think it was Carl who came up with Bloodstained Mire and the lone Mountain. I like it, but donâ€™t understand the reasoning. Why not get a Volcanic Island? If a Blood Moon is in play it is a Mountain anyways. I understand fears of Wasteland, but maybe this tweaking is excessive? I will talk more once I have done more testing.

good point, but there were just times when i'd fetch for a volcanic, drop a welder, and next turn it gets wasted without giving me the opportunity to drop blood moon. however, i must point out that drawing an opening of island + island + mountain is horrible Razz

and even with only one mountain, it happend at least twice in ten total matches.

has anybody else done some tweaking on the manabase for *control-slaver*?

i played with this mana base in my tourney earlier, and the mountain saved my ass a lot of time from wastelands.

9-solomoxen, crypt, vault
1-academy
4-volcanic island
2-underground sea
3-island
1-mountain
2-flooded strand
1-polluted delta
2-bloodstained mire

Quote from: WildWillieWonderboy

This card seems like it may be good in a workshop prison type deck as a SB option to improve matchups vs. other decks running welder

how are you going to effectivly use it in workshop prison when the only islands in the deck are 4x volcanic islands? if i'm expecting mirror or workshop slaver, i'd rather use f/i, pulse/RnR, or heretics.

the combo is too fragile imo... and the artwork isn't something i'd get exited over too... BUT! i does say, untap AND draw...

Quote from: Eddie

Quote

1.) I've tested several games with it, and at first it seems to go well. Then I tested it with the choice of FTK and razormane, starting from the same situation. In almost all the cases FTK came out on top.

2.) The only advantage razormane has is that you can weld it back in after it's gone. But that is also true for other fat in the deck (especially pentavus).

3.) And yes, duplicant is also a better choice in the side. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

1.) same results with mine.
2.) yes but then again, the added disadvantage that it's artifact and can be oxidized when you absolutely need to block that arrogant wurm next turn. other than the already aforementioned fish, i can't see any reason why i'd rather use razormane instead of dupes/FTK- and i don't really see much fish being played here-
3.) my thoughts too- so does this mean that razormane is useful only in workshop-slaver builds since it can lay it down earlier?

Quote from: Eddie

I think it will be a great replacement of FTK in the drain slaver sideboard. It will be a great help in the aggro matchup. The beatdown with your fat works better with it.

is razormane really better than FTK against the aggro matchup in drain slaver? in workshop slaver, i could imagine it being used, but in drain-slaver? it's 5CC and i have enough troubles slipping FTK fast enough especially when i don't get mox+land in the opening play. against madness i still prefer FTK since you don't have to block to nuke a wurm- is this better than duplicant? (also once they drop wonder, it makes playing razormane look silly) they're both serve totally different purposes, but there can only be so much SB slots open- i don't think it's posssible to fit in 2 FTK, 2 duplicant, 2 razormane in the SB of control slaver- so obviously, one of those has to go- anybody else done enough testing on it? because whenever i board in FTKs, i never onced wished it was razormane instead.

whoa! i'm not claiming to be any good at the deck, but it's exactly, and i mean exactly the deck i'm using. card for card, even the same sideboard :shock:

sorry to hear that P_f, i'm sure you could get the police involved somehow. hope you find the culprits and kick serious butt. on a very serious note, on big tournaments- when seatings numbers aren't mandatory, i always sit next to a teammate, but he's sitting on the otherside.. (get it?), so that he can watch over my cards, and i can watch over his cards. of course if there was a seating arrangement, it wouldn't work, but if the tables are arranged in a grid or columnar fashion, even two or three rows away, you can usually still see your teammate's deck or back.