I am grateful to Pastimes for making these events more secure. After attending Vintage Champs for the first time last year, I was shocked to learn later how much theft occured. Since learning about last year's problems, I took out a personal articles insurance policy on my collection. I have to keep records of the cards in my collection and their current value, but I only have to list the ones that I want to insure. It's not hard to keep track of the cards worth $20 or more. My State Farm agent was very helpful in setting me up with a policy that cost about $150 a year and covers the estimated $25K retail value of my collection. I recommend talking with your insurance agent and setting up a similar policy if you cannot afford to loose your cards to theft (which is most of us). My agent had never covered Magic cards before, but they were happy to come up solutions that worked well for me. It's another layer of protection for this ongoing problem.

If you do not want to splash Green or just want more Berserk-type effects, "Fling" would be a good solution to bypassing robots.

If you want help, listen to criticism. If you want validation that your deck is good, win a tournament and then write a report. That is how this forum works.

I have no comment about your deck or card choices.

This thread is getting totally off topic...

Regarding several things that people have said:

1. Teeg is not seeing much play these days, but I get your point. My contention is that some Fish decks would be caught so off-guard that you would win, similar to that way that a single Bribery has been showing up in Oath sideboards to steal Greater Gargadons and totally turning the game around.

2. Marsh Casualties not hitting Goyf makes it a not nearly as good. If you are going to sideboard one card to sweep the board, it had better take care of the premier threat.

I am not saying that this will definitely work as a singleton in the sideboard, but I like it enough to try it.

Consume the Meek
3BB
Instant
Destroy all creatures with converted mana cost 3 or less. They can't be regenerated.

I like Consume the Meek in a TPS sideboard. This is a card that gets its strength from being versatile, not broken. It could provide a tremendous tempo advantage against Fish decks. It might also buy a turn against Dredge and Oath, give you an out against Empty the Warrens, hit a couple of pesky Goblin Welders or Dark Confidants, kill a Painter's Servant as Grindstone is about to hit the battlefield, or deal with rogue decks like Goblins in low proxy environments.

This card will draw immediate comparisons to Damnation, a sorcery that kills everything for one colorless less. The reason I would consider putting one of these in my TPS sideboard instead of Damnation (which I don't currently sideboard) is to give myself more information by waiting until my opponent's turn to cast it. Is that worth the high cost? Would a Smother have worked just as well and been cheaper? Perhaps, but Smother doesn't nearly as effectively punish an opponent who overcommits. Also, inforamtion I get during my opponent's turn may change when I try to push through a draw spell versus kill his creatures, making the extra colorless mana worth it. And as far as Damnation's versatility advantage of killing fatties bigger than three mana, I am of the opinion that most decks will sideboard out their fatties once they see that you are playing TPS (except Oath, in which case you are killing the spirit tokens to buy time with either card).

I have a feeling this card will get no love in Vintage, but I plan to test it and hope someone else out there looks at it twice as well. There could be a lot of situations when the versatility of this card trumps the raw efficient power of alternatives.

Dreamstone Hedron
6
Artifact 
Tap: Add 3 colorless mana to your mana pool.
3, Tap, sacrifice Dreamstone Hedron: Draw three cards.

Will this card act as a mini Memory Jar?
Is the cost to activate too high?

I personally like this card but think it might be too balanced for Vintage. It seems too slow for Stax and not powerful enough as a Tinker target. However, it is an artifact that draws three cards! Thoughts?

I don't think that this would work in Vintage, but hitting one or more of the new Eldrazi off this guy would be insane! You would get the four cards or extra turn because he allows you to cast them!

We are happy to annnounce another Vintage tournament on Sunday, Mar 21, 2010, at 4:00pm.

1st Prize: Bazaar of Baghdad (signed)
2nd Prize: Playset of Force of Will
Other prizes based on attendance...

Entry Fee: $20 plus $0.25 per proxy (no limit)
FREE proxies if entry is paid before Mar 14
FREE proxies for first time attendance

Looking forward to this event! Hope to see you there!

Waynes World AK
1921 W. Dimond Blvd, Suite B3
Anchorage, AK, 99502
Phone: (907) 929 - 7878
Fax: (907) 346-1939
Email: jean@waynesworldak.com

This article is hopefully going to bring forward many voices who can persuade Wizards to abolish the reserved list. If a great deal of new people become interested in Vintage and Legacy because key cards become widely available, the older cards that I own will only become more valuable as their novelty increases to a larger body of people. Heck, white-bordered old-framed cards may even be hotter than the new reprints after a few years! Wizards isn't making any new white-bordered cards. And I know I would rather own revised dual lands than new dual lands, even if they were foiled and black-bordered. I like playing with old cards, and you can't make old cards out of new cards!

This card is definitely unique. It is an unrestricted blue draw engine with additional utility to disrupt the opponent's board by bouncing key creatures (lodestone golem, dark confidant, goblin welder, qasali pridemage). Its casting cost is expensive for Vintage and it will not win the game immediately late game. If it is left alone, it will be hard not to find a way to win within a few turns because of the tremendous number of cards it allows you to see. It is easier for an opponent to disrupt than an enchantment or even a creature because your opponent can attack it directly with a creature in addition to more direct removal like chain of vapor. Its synergies with other cards are not immediately identifiable because it does not directly replace any one card in a given archtype. It is unique and will take time to properly evaluate but could be a solid midgame unrestricted blue utility/draw spell.

Question: Would you test this card if nobody talked about it and it cost $4 for a playset?

I came into a playset pretty easily this past week and have been having fun playing it as a four-of in a tezzeret deck with dark confidants and a suite of tutors including gifts ungiven and imperial seal. The verdict is still out on whether it is good enough to keep, but I have definitely found that playing it is different than I thought.

We are happy to annnounce another Vintage tournament on Sunday, Feb 28, 2010, at 4:00pm.

1st Prize: The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale (Italian)
2nd Prize: Sol Ring (Beta)
Other prizes based on attendance...

Entry Fee: $20 plus $0.25 per proxy (no limit)
FREE proxies if entry is paid before Feb 21
FREE proxies for first time attendance

Looking forward to this event! Hope to see you there!

Waynes World AK
1921 W. Dimond Blvd, Suite B3
Anchorage, AK, 99502
Phone: (907) 929 - 7878
Fax: (907) 346-1939
Email: jean@waynesworldak.com

Try Demonic Consultation. Basically, it's an instant-speed Demonic Tutor because you have several "4 ofs" and are unlikely to remove your win conditions from the game (unlike like Tezzeret, Oath, etc). Just be careful...

Steve, great list! It will be a very helpful tool for helping me assess the gaps in my collection, and more than a few cards got me to think about how they might see play competatively! I especially liked the breakdown by color.

I would like to add a few cards for consideration. Some may be outdated, but many are linked to other cards on the list (as in "if you play X you will almost certainly play Y") and may still be relevant:

x3 Argivian Find
x1 Berserk
x1 Body Double
x1 Carrion Feeder
x4 Land Tax
x3 Moat
x4 Mogg Fanatic
x4 Protean Hulk
x1 Research//Development
x1 Reveillark
x4 Scroll Rack

And although you mention the relavant goblins, the relevant elves were MIA. Would you add any of these cards to future lists?

Wayne's World Presents
Pay-by-the-Proxy Vintage Tournament

1st: Mana Drain (english)
2nd: Force of Will

Unsanctioned Unlimited-Proxy Tournment (Swiss, Top 4)
$15.00 (plus $0.25 per proxy)
Sunday, August 9, 4:00 p.m.

1921 W. Dimond Blvd.
Creekside Village Mall
Anchorage, AK 99515
(across from the street from Burlington Coat Factory, next to Movie Gallery)
907-929-7878

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=1921+W.+Dimond+Blvd.+anchorage+ak&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=42.445866,92.724609&ie=UTF8&z=16&iwloc=A

Note: Tournament prizes and dates/times subject to change based on attendance. A minimum of eight people required in attendance.

In my experience, a good Stax player often plays Chalice at "1" in the first game. It may not be as common of a play as it was when Brainstorm was around, but it is still a great play because it hits Ancestral Recall, Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal, Mystical Tutor, Duress, Thoughtseize, Mystic Remora, Voltiac Key, Sensei's Divining Top, etc.


My point is that it is unwise to leave yourself defenseless against a fairly common play, even in the first game. Stax does not get hated out as easily as Ichorid with intense sideboard hate. Just conceding the first game against Stax is not the same as conceding the first game to Ichorid, so give yourself every chance you can to win game one.


What is your sideboard, out of curiousity? Ingot Chewers and Rack and Ruins? Have you toyed with Meltdown?

A quick comment: You should have a plan for Chalice of the Void set to "1". I know Duress and and Thoughtseize could hit it before it hits you, but they could still topdeck it or lay it down while you are on the play and just shut you out of the game. Perhaps consider cutting maindeck Wheel of Fortune for a Rack and Ruin...

So, I'd like to make a few meta-game predictions:

1. Mana Drain decks will start to play Mystic Remoras and Dark Confidants. A few will dabble in AK/Intuition but find it inferior.
2. 5-color Stax with Enlightened Tutors for Trinisphere and Crop Rotations for Strip Mine will see more play. It will become over-hyped. Even though two of the restricted cards most hated in Vintage get better, Stax is still fairly easy to disrupt with enough sideboard hate.
3. Ichorid decks will experiment with crop rotation but discover it is too easiy to disrupt.
4. Worldgorger Dragon will get a lot of attention but not perform well in tournaments as people increase graveyard hate maindeck to disrupt 5-color Stax and Ichorid.
5. Parfait will quietly produce results and be a contender shortly after Silence gets printed in M10

My guess is that Parfait will be the big winner after July 1. It has as much access to Trinisphere as Stax and it's disruption package will be harder to stop with one card (like Hurkyl's Recall).

And Mystic Remora is now the best blue draw engine...

Just a friendly reminder that if anyone plans to be in Anchorage this weekend, please come out and support a fledgling Vintage scene! It will be fun!

I would also love to see an article about Vintage history up to the present. Perhaps the community could find insight into the recent discussions about improving Vintage attendance by reviewing the past...

Steve, I really enjoyed reading about your approach to logically deducing which cards will be in the new boxed set. One factor that you did not address though was the current secondary market prices of the possible cards in contention. Do you really think that they will reprint Imperial Seal in a boxed set that retails for $34.95? I am in favor of it, but skeptical!

@ M.Solymossy:

I have recently been experimenting with Demonic Consultation in different decks... May I ask, how did it work for you? What were your reasons for playing with it? Did you even lose or win because of it? Thanks!

@ Zeus:

I have noticed the Pyroblasts are often appearing too frequently, so I will take your advice and cut one for a Thirst for Knowledge or Fact or Fiction. On cutting the Grindstone/Painter's Servant, perhaps I am forcing a "beatdown round peg" through a "control square hole", but I really like the additional threats and sometimes play them just to make my opponent deal with the threat. I have rarely had a problem with too many Grindstones and never a problem with too many Painter's Servants.

@ Duncan:


Thank you!


My fault on the wording. You are absolutely right that Grindstone is worthless without Painter's Servant. I merely meant to point out that unlike Oath, for example, Grindstone does not require another card somewhere in your deck, hand, graveyard, etc.


This is where I need more tournament experience. In my playtesting against other opponents in my area, I have had what I have considered good results with creating a fast kill. I have attributed this to the additional copies of Grindstone and Painter's Servant. But as I said above, I may be taking the wrong Beatdown/Control role with my build for this deck. I have played this deck almost like a TPS deck, trying to combo out at just the right moment. That is where Demonic Consultation really shines. Is there any tournament data on a deck that runs three/four copies of Painter's Servant and Grindstone?

I will take your advice into consideration.

WAYNE'S WORLD PRESENTS
VINTAGE 20 PROXY TOURNAMENT

Saturday, June 6 at 1 p.m.
Format: Vintage (unsanctioned)
Entry: $20 + 25¢ per proxy after 20

1st Place: Unlimited Mox Ruby signed by artist Dan Frazier
2nd Place: Mana Crypt

Other prizes may vary based on attendance.

Wayne's World of Collectibles
1921 W. Dimond Blvd.
Creekside Village Mall
Anchorage, AK 99515
(across from the street from Burlington Coat Factory... right next to Movie Gallery)
1-907-929-7878
http://www.waynesworldak.com/

This is our first attempt to run Vintage events, so come out and support a format of Magic long forgatten in Alaska!

Rules on Proxies

There are three types of acceptable proxies for use in the tournament. The first and most basic is taking a basic land card and writing the details of the card on it. The second method is to take a card that shares some of the characteristics with the card that is being proxied and erase any characteristics that do not match, replacing them with the correct characteristics.

All proxies must have the following text neatly printed, using an extra fine point sharpie. Ball point pens may NOT be used:

1.   The full name of the card (no abbreviations or nicknames)
2.   Correct casting cost of the card including all colored mana symbols
3.   All relevant/game effecting text

When choosing what card to use as the base for an erased proxy, players must follow these rules:

1. The mana cost of the base spell must be the same as the card being proxied.
2. The type of the card being proxied must be the same as the base card.
3. The P/T of a creature being proxied must be the same as the base creature P/T
4. When proxying a creature it may be difficult to find a creature where all characteristics match. In this case, mana cost is the most important, followed by the P/T, followed by the subtype. Any characteristics that do not match must be erased and corrected.
5. The art box, card name, and text box must be totally erased. White out may not be used for this as it affects the stiffness of the card and may mark it.
6. When adding text to the card do not use a ball point pen. A extra fine point sharpie is the best thing to use. A ball point pen can cause indentations on the card marking it.
7. For clarity reasons, the use of cards with the new card frame is strongly encouraged

Collector’s Edition (CE) and gold-bordered cards may be used as the third type of proxies, provided they are put in opaque sleeves. They count toward the 20-proxy limit. For example, a gold-bordered Polluted Delta or a CE Black Lotus in an opaque sleeve will count as a proxy and will each add to the total number of proxies in the deck.

I added some words about myself and the reason for this thread in a new paragraph at the top. As I thought about it, I'm sure many of you thought "who the hell is this guy and why the hell should we care?" when you first saw this thread. Hope you enjoy!

Hi everyone, my name is Marc Poirier and I live in Anchorage, AK. For those of you who do not know, we have a thriving tournament scene up here in the Land of the Midnight Sun. But not so much for Vintage. I would like this to change, so I have decided to take matters into my own hands and start a Vintage scene up here through the local shops. Although I am an avid reader, I have not posted much yet. So as part of my agenda to promote Vintage in Alaska, I have joined the Mana Drain and will attempt to contribute to the community. Because our tournament scene is just starting and I have little to offer in terms of tournament results, I would like to offer some outside thoughts on old cards that have not seen much play recently. This thread is devoted to examining one such old card that many people forget about, hence the title "Forgetton Lore". Perhaps you will find my thoughts insightful in some way. So here we go...

Sometimes, I look at a card and wonder why nobody has abused it in some deck somewhere. I start listing the drawbacks and thinking of ways around them. And most of the time, I am forced to give up on “breaking” the card as the drawbacks are far too restrictive to the rest of a good deck. But when I recently vetted the card Demonic Consultation, I found a way to use it without compromising a deck that has already shown its worth in recent tournaments.  The deck is Painter’s Servant, and Demonic Consultation has been so valuable in my build of this deck that at times I prefer it to Vampiric Tutor and even Demonic Tutor.

Before discussing the reasons for my newfound love of this card, let me begin by sharing my current decklist for Painter’s Servant:

x1  Black Lotus
x3  Grindstone
x1  Lotus Petal
x1  Mana Crypt
x1  Mox Emerald
x1  Mox Jet
x1  Mox Pearl
x1  Mox Ruby
x1  Mox Sapphire
x1  Sol Ring

x4  Painter’s Servant
x1  Darksteel Colossus

x1  Ancestral Recall
x1  Brainstorm
x1  Demonic Consultation
x4  Force of Will
x1  Hurkyl’s Recall
x4  Mana Drain
x1  Mystical Tutor
x4  Pyroblast
x3  Thirst for Knowledge
x1  Vampiric Tutor

x1  Demonic Tutor
x1  Ponder
x1  Merchant Scroll
x1  Time Walk
x1  Timetwister
x1  Tinker
x1  Yawgmoth’s Will

x3  Island
x1  Tolarian Academy
x3  Flooded Strand
x3  Polluted Delta
x2  Underground Sea
x3  Volcanic Island

Now, the reason Demonic Consultation works well in this deck is that the combo elements are all run as in groups of three and four and are all good independent of each other. Using Demonic Consultation to get a Grindstone or Painter’s Servant is no sweat because I am not worried about removing my other combo pieces from the game, unlike Oath, Flash, TPS, or Tezzeret where I might remove a Tendrils of Agony, Time Vault or Hellkite Overlord from the game on my way to comboing out. Painter’s Servant decks use an unrestricted two card combo that does not rely on any additional cards to win, which is unique among almost all other decks in the current metagame.

Additionally, Demonic Consultation is an instant. That I can keep it in my hand to get a Pyroblast or Force of Will at a critical moment is often crippling to my opponent. And because it is a mere single black mana, I am often able to cast it without disrupting the mana requirements for the other spells I plan to play that turn.

After playtesting with Demonic Consultation, I decided to additionally try using Spoils of the Vault to see if it could be broken as well. But my testing with Spoils of the Vault showed me that the odds of killing yourself even looking for a card played as a four-of were high enough that it was not good enough to be broken. The life loss was simply too much of a problem.

I have not played Demonic Consultation in a Mishra’s Workshop based strategy yet, but I believe that it may also have a home there. Workshop based decks use a lot of four-ofs and may find the additional consistency useful for winning, especially in a deck that utilizes a combo like Metalworker and Staff of Dominance.

Demonic Consultation is not Demonic Tutor or Vampiric Tutor, which are almost auto-includes in any deck that splashes black. In some decks though, specifically a deck with unrestricted combo pieces where the combo can be achieved without additional cards from the library, Demonic Consultation is one of the best cards in the entire deck.

I have a rules question:

If you have in play a Smokestack with a soot counter and a Master Transmuter, can you put the triggered ability of Smokestack on the stack and choose an artifact as the permanent to be sacrificed per the rule:

410.4. When a triggered ability goes on the stack, the controller of the ability makes any choices that
would be required while playing an activated ability...

and then activate Master Transmuter putting the activated ability on the stack and ultimately "bouncing out" the artifact that was about to be sacrificed?

Thanks!

Have you thought about running Esperzoa?

Esperzoa
2U
Artifact Creature - Jellyfish 
4/3 
Flying
At the beginning of your upkeep, return an artifact you control to its owner's hand. 


Combos great with Tangle Wire. Stack your upkeep to bounce the Tangle Wire before it makes you tap stuff, then replay it during your main phase. You have to pay three every turn to keep replaying the tangle wire, but you get to make your opponent tap 4 permanents forever and you put your opponent on a clock.

Also, you should think about running some number of Ghost Quarters. With Mindlock Orb, they become Strip Mines!

I would generally sideboard the following cards:
x4  Zuran Orb
x4  Guttural Response
x3  Pithing Needle
x4  Leyline of the Void

Against Aggro:
+4  Zuran Orb
-4 Duress

Against Combo or Blue-Based Control:
+4  Guttural Response
-1  Chain of Vapor
-1  Rebuild
-1  Planar Portal
-1  Manamorphose

Against Ichorid:
+4  Leyline of the Void
+3  Pithing Needle
-1  Rebuild
-4  Pact of Negation
-2  Duress

Regarding Your 4 questions:
1.  Game one is tough, but the subsequent games with Zuran's orb will help. Again, win quickly!
2.  Imperial Seal is an option, but the loss of life hurts. At least with Vampiric Tutor, you can wait to use it at the end of the opponent's turn and see if they hurt you.
3.  I personallly think the "fireball" spell could be anything you want. The right move for the opponent is almost always to counter Channel, not the "fireball". I understand your point about Misdirection though... As far as Regrowth, I think I could get a countered Channel back into my hand faster with Regrowth than Timetwister, plus in my build Green in the base color.
4.  Because I hate Strip Mine!

Not exactly true on the Vamp + Fetch objection... You just need to draw extra free mana post-mirror or you need to draw into another mirror or portal.

Duress is a delay, but depending on the matchup it may be worth it to wait a turn to deal with the threat. Also, I would be likely to sideboard out Duresses for Guttural Response or REBs if I knew I was facing heavy counter magic.