Awesome, thats what I had hoped.  Now to build the deck...

Hi, so my question is:  With an active Bloodchief Ascension on the board, if I cast a Mind Bomb, thats either 3 damage or 3 cards, six life lost and six life gained.  In this line of thought.  If I cast a Glimpse the Unthinkable, is that 20 life lost and 20 life gained?  Is this an instant kill with an active Ascension, or  do they not trigger individually?

Thanks, KingHeavy

Hi, I was trying to put a creative control deck together that used Renegade Doppelganger to copy a freshly played Putrefax, resulting in 10 hastey poison counters.  Then, looking for more threats to copy with the 'ganger I remembered Phyrexian Dreadnaught.  Now, since the doppelganger would already be in play, could I cast a Dreadnaught, copy it, let the original die and then attack with the 'ganger being a 12/12 trampler that doesnt have summoning sickness?

If you have an answer to this question, please reply or PM me as I dont check this account all that often.

Thanks for the help!

Love Gush... I just put up a list of an idea im working on in another creative thread, it has similarities to your list but with a different win con.  Keep up the artistic thinking!

Hi all!

I dont post here very much, but I read a lot just to keep up as it were, so I've been tossing around this idea since scars came out as I was an old time poison fan and a lover of gush and U/G decks in general so I thought I'd throw out this list just to get some feedback.  Here goes...

4 Tropical Island
2 Breeding Pool
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
2 Forest
4 Island
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal

1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Fastbond

4 Preordain (Street Wraith, Land Grant, ESG, Manamorphose?)
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Gush
4 Explore
3 Summer Bloom

4 Renegade Doppelganger
4 Putrefax

So the obvious kill comes from having one or more Renegade Doppelgangers out and casting a Putrefax.  With one dopp and the fax thats ten poison counters and a win as fast as turn two(unlikely but very likely on turn three).  Now, this is just an idea of using these new cards, but the deck seems like a control combo aggro kill deck to me

Pros:  Lots of draw and land play with gush, explore, and whatever ends up in the preordain slot.  With fetches and possibly land grant there is lots of filtering, resulting in very rewarding gushes helping increase drawing my win cons.  Doppelganger is completely unplayed and kind of a curve ball until people figure out what the game plan is.  Putrefax is just cool as hell and in multiples a great win con(even for oath in multiples?) cause if unblocked it basically says "deal ten damage now".  Its also pretty fast.  Turn one land mox, brainstorm( or whatever)  Turn two land tap all for three mana, play explore/summer bloom, gush, replay up to three land, play dopp.  Turn three play putrefax, clone with dopp and beat for lethal poison. 

Cons:  Its fragile except for daze and force, but thats something for the sideboard or for tuning in general.  Im sure there are a few more cons like hate or bounce or creatures eating some infect damage, but thats what permission is for. 


So I think its an interesting idea, probably not tier one, but testing will sort that out.  Im still not sure on the numbers of a few slots like explore/summer bloom.  Explore keeps the cards coming, but bloom is faster recover from gush and daze.  Dopp is dead until I play Putrefax, but so is either half of the vault/key combo so...Im interested in hearing any and all thoughts about this idea, but it seems like at the least it would be a lot of fun to shuffle up.

Thanks for reading,
King Heavy

p.s. since my login name has been feebly insulted before, anyone who can figure out the source of my name gets a twinkie!  Hint: its a rewording of a famous author's name

so there's this simple combo using scapeshift that's semi popular in non eternal formats, and it occurred to me that a possible vintage version might be viable.  This is just an idea, but what about something like this:

4 Treasure Hunt
2-4 Manabond
1 Fastbond
4 Valakut the Molten Pinnacle
4 Vesuva
4 Tiaga
4 Volcanic Island
4 Stomping Grounds
4 Steam Vents
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Mutavault

and 14 more card to fill in.  Ideally every treasure hunt would lead to a manabond  or another treasure hunt and lots  and lots of land.  Manabond kicks in, dropping usually multiple Valakuts and a bunch of mountain/x dual lands and you get a dead opponent.  It looks really loose, but with aggressive mulligans it can win on turn 3 easily. Tap two lands, draw a bunch and get manabond, lay a land and play manabond. Endstep, GG

Just an idea, but what does everyone think?  Any juice here?  with Eldrazi coming up, there could be enough land to fill up the deck and make it really nasty.  Sound off.

Thankyou for the response, that is much more what I was looking for.  Im well aware that explore doesnt hold a candle to time walk and that ultimately in boils down to an extra draw for a single mana.  I dont claim to be an expert at vintage by any means.  However, when considering the components of your analysis I think you are viewing the card's abilities in a vacuum as opposed to in a given context. 

For example:  In Tezz explore just draws you a card as any land you would play as extra would simply provide mana effectively reducing the cost of the card to  and removing any chance of having drain mana for defense.  The drawn card could be the extra land, or it could be something more useful like any bomb in the deck.  Not very useful in Tezz

In dredge with say, crop rotation it could be a second bazaar or a forest to rotate for a bazaar or arbor dryad or something very useful. Maybe good

In a shop build(though none I know of run much green) it could be a second workshop or with crucible a second strip mine for the turn. Maybe not bad

In fish it could be an extra one drop early on or the ability to run daze without a concern for tempo loss. also maybe good

So it seems that given the context it certainy could have uses.  It could be  draw a card, add  or draw a card then draw two cards and discard three cards.
Is it the new best spell in vintage? Of course not, but could it have a place in some build that hasnt been considered yet, absolutely.  Thats what testing is for. Its certainly doesnt boil down to just  " draw a card" unless viewed through a vacuum and vintage is anything but.  If they let me play four timewalks I would, but that doesnt mean this card has no potential, but just maybe it will in the right context.

Red Painter decks dont play seedtime either

I would love to make a list of "most argued vintage staple in a given archetype" on threads like this.  Wasn't "painter" out like months ago as a "weak" two card combo that can win, but doesnt.  How is Vault/Key better than Painter/Grindstone.  Mana?  Vault/Key doesnt win, it just allows literal "time" to do your thing.  Painter/stone is an instant win.  Where is vintage going?  Its drivel from basement dwelling dungeon master beard wearing "theorists"  and yet new cards that come out that aren't "instant win" get looked over, while Token/Depths and other extremely efficient combos always get over looked.   Oh look, a one mana counterspel, lets nobody play it!  Its like tunnel vision!!

Oh come on, thats exactly the point. "If everyone plays blue then seedtime should be badass"  no!  come on creativity!  This thread is about the structural and logical uses of Time Walk an how Explore may be a functional replacement for the most important uses of the card.  As someone who knows very little about modern vintage theory I have to say that only reason there are a few experts on the format is because every other shmo basement liver just cops Smmenens lists anyways.  I haven't recieved a single cohiesive thought from this thread in any way of explanation as to why Explore is a bad card.  The simply say" Its bad, you cant untap and all you do is draw a card.  If one asks an impartial viewer to the format, the reason Vintage is so one dimensional is because the "players" take broken as gospel and they utilize zero creativity unless two card kills are extremely obvious.  Ths is what dumbs down vintage. There are at least three two card kill combo's in vintage and yet no deck relies solely on that combination.  It kind of sad, the lack of creativity.     

Actually the God Draw would go like:

1st Turn: Hand is on the draw ...Fetch, Shock, Fetch, Wraith, ESG, Explore, Death's Shadow, draw Seal or Vamp tutor

Fetch
Shock (17)
Wraith (15)
ESG
Explore
Fetch
Shock (12)
Seal/Vamp T for whispers(10)

2nd Turn:
Whispers (8)
Fetch
Shock (5)
Thoughtsieze or Wraith (3)
Death's Shadow
Death's Shadow

3rd Turn:
Attack for 22

Yes this is about as good as it could get, but some of these plays can be replaced by explore/wraith/whispers making it potentially very consistent and with 8 cards in the yard by then, Tombstalker is playable on turn 2.  Its a sketch so far, but I still think it could have potential.  I agree, blood pet sucks, but it does pay for tombstalker twice. There's def. a better card for this slot out there, I just threw the deck together quickly in my head to give explore some context.

BTW no one has talked about primary uses of time walk per deck and what ends up being more useful, extra phases or the draw and drop. Keep it going!

Yes, I agree, the untap is extremely important, but Im considering context as well within a build.  My first thoughts are with a primarily new build for a "B/G fish aggro" type build from interesting worldwake cards.  Its just a sketch but what about something like:

4 Explore
4 ESG
4 Street Wraith
4 Night's Whispers
4 Death's Shadow (13/13 -1/-1 for life total)
4 Tombstalker
3 tutors (demonic, vampiric, imperial)
1 Necropotence
4 Thoughtseize
3 Duress
4 Bloodpet
shocklands
fetchlands
moxen/lotus

Its all aggro with disruption, 12 draw cards, and 8 decently fast clock threats.  Getting out 1-2 death's shadows for 10 p/t and/or tombstalkers by turn one or two is totally possible.  I'll keep toying with the numbers but it certainly has some potential.
Keep the thoughts going!

So, I haven't posted in a while, but my brief background with magic is Ive been playing since Legends came out, but haven't played in any vintage tournaments since before it was called vintage.  However, I always keep up with new tech as it is very intriguing to me.  I really wish someone would figure our a reliable way to "kick" sadsac, as that has been entirely ignored on this page as far as I can tell.  I digress.

This thread is about two things:

1) Worldwake common "Explore"  which reads  Sorcery; You may play an additional land this turn.  Draw a card.

2) Primary uses of the vintage staple "Time Walk"

As far as I can tell, besides an additional upkeep, untap, and attack phase, these cards are identical.  So, point one, "Explore" is the closest to, if not a functional green time walk in the right context.  The only green based strategy focused on the attack phase Im aware of is fish, but mainly just Tarmo and the disenchant guy.  Attack phase is not a primary use of time walk then in most decks that play it.  This stems from point two, and may or may not be true.

So what decks utilize time walk for Primarily upkeep, untap, and/or attack phase?
Are there top tier decks that use time walk for this, besides TPS and Tezz?  Do they even use it for that considering storm and infinite turns respectively?

If not, then the primary uses for timewalk in vintage are "an additional land drop and an extra draw" in which case we now have a common unrestricted version of this massively powerful vintage wisdom tooth.  Forgive my prosidy.

Im interested in thoughts about this card as well as point number two, the primary uses of time walk.  Thanks for reading.

-King

I like this discussion.  A while back i post a list for a "casual deck" based on the hidden creatures. the core of my deck looked like this:

4 hidden gibbeons
4 hidden herd
4 hidden guerrilles
4 tarmogoyf
4 ESG
4 standstill
4 mystic remora
4 FOW

the deck worked like fish but with a strong control component.  I figured that in vintage almost every deck plays instants, artifacts, and non-basics. this means all the creature enchantments would trigger most of the time if dropped early.  Keeping the concentration high the goal was to drop two to three and a standstill in the first two turns.  this leads to between 6-10 damage second turn and 9-15 damage third turn.  the threat is the creatures to play around, but also with standstill and remora if you crack the still i get creatures too and if you kill my creatures i get more cards from remora.  all of this keeps you from winning while letting me hopefully keep control. ESG is fast mana, goyf is goyf and the rest of the deck was counters and control.  One could easily side deck specific control for any matchup that doesnt have the relative cards type or an alt win in case of ichorid or something.  It seemed to work well enough to test however!  What do you all think?

Ive loved Bitter Ordeal since it was printed and have been trying to figue a way to break it.  I had a deck with extirpates, extracts, and hide//seek but it was to slow.  Now Im trying, and its just a suggestion, to get a fastbond, zuran orb, crucible combo going for infinite life and gravestorm, I know its a four card combo, but with four offs of each piece except fastbond it might be doable even if adding some explorations. 

CORE
4 bitter ordeal
4 crucible of worlds
4 zuran orb
1 fastbond
3 exploration
4 dark ritual
4 tombstalker
4 wasteland
1 stripmine

so without bond/exploration, but with an orb and crucible you can get storms for four or five fairly easily while gaining life to help against aggro if you get the full combo with no ordeal, you gain infinite life (and infinite mana if you want) which stops TPS and aggro anyway, since you're storming on lands 9sphere doesnt effect you and if the parts are in play, neither can countermagic. Lotus, swamp, ritual, bond, orb, crucible, ordeal for the nut draw first turn kill.......

Tombstalker works really well with this kind of build since you want stuff in the yard anyway and is a pretty fast clock if you dont just deck your opponent

-king

i think every one who has said that milling is bad in vintage has forgotten about painter's servant/grindstone.  This card has a tone of potential and its is far superior to bribery or jester's cap.  The main use of the card is to mill the deck of a player with zero to one or two creatures.  Getting a free fatty is just a bonus.  The CMC is nothing with drains in deck or rituals.  This card is gonna be killer in vintage against certain deck types. Not fish, but some.

whats your plan on winning, I mean your kill condition?

I was working on a deck using oath of ghouls and oversold cemetery(basically the same thing) to get a soft lock going with faearie mcabre, fulminator mage, shriekmaw, and pardic miner in a legacy shell, but have wanted to bring it toward vintage, however we both still need a kill condition.  If there is a "sac to destroy target artifact" creature in red out there let me know!

Being that Tarmogoyf has become THE standard two-drop in all of magic history and every constructed format that it's legal in I though I'd start a thread about how to maximize tarmogoyf.  What I mean is, being that Tarmy is a major kill condition, by increasing his P/P it also decreases the win clock by a turn or two.

Permanent types: instant, sorcery, land, creature, artifact, enchantment, tribal, planeswalker:  max P/T 8/9  for a three turn clock or two considering petches and thoughtseize.

In most vintage decks there are only four to five permanent types whether they runny tarmy or not.  This means a four to five turn clock to win.

So there are two main questions,  1) is it worth while to maximize tarmogoyf in order to decrease the win clock, meaning is it worth it to run enchantments, tribal, or planeswalkers to make winning easier?  and or does it?  and 2) what are the best cards in the under-represented permanent types that are vintage playable if any?

NOTE:  with Tezz being a more common vintage card and cards like ethersworn canonist and some other artifact creatures, we can really maximize the efficiency of overlap in the permanent types.  So sound off.

INSTANT: any number of counters and card draw (FOW, Recall, etc.)

SORCERY:  Probably tutors, land grant!

LAND:  strip/wasteland

CREATURE:  ESG, SSG, street wraith

ARTIFACT: mox, CotV, artifact lands, painters servant (also creature) any artifacts that go right to the graveyard

ENCHANTMENT: standstill, possibly bitterblossom

TRIBAL: This type benifits from always having two permanent types see bitterblossom, eyes of the wisent(this could be cool) warren wierding (for DSC and naught?),

PLANESWALKER: Obviously Tezz, possibly ajaini vengent or garruk


So some of them are better than others, and we have to consider should we maximize the chances of getting six to eight perm types in the yard for a quicker kill, or should we just build a homogenous vintage deck that puts in tarmy as a follow to a fad. 

Here's a basic core that could be a goog starting place.

4 Tarmogoyf
4 ESG
4 Land Grant
4 FOW
4 standstill
4 Cotv
4 wasteland
1 strip
1 lotus petal
1 black lotus
3-5 mox
2 tezz
3-5 tutors
2 brainstorm/ponder

so 41 to 45 cards that looks like a lot of vintage cores with all types represented but tribal and planeswalker.  Id like to hear what you all think is the best card for each type and any other ways to maximize tarmogoyf.  Thanks!

andrewpate

ya I agree that they seem a little odd, and surley could be improved with more testing but Ive actually had a hard time fitting in everything I would like. Its def. not tuned.  I had thought about REB on sculptor, and this deck would probably benifit from adding an academy ruins to it, but then again, its always one for another, speed or recursion, ya know? Thats why I've tried to keep away from the FOWs, cause any blue card I pitch (of the 13 im running) is gonna be something important like recall or a sculptor.  I would love to find a way to fit them in, but Im not sure about the room.  There's a bunch of stuff like that, especially if I droped the thorns, stuff like sol ring...tinker... and duress...

although, a rough sideboard could look like

1 sculptor
1 master
1 top
1 plating
4 duress
4 FOW
1 tinker
2 platz angel

Ya and chalice sucks too, on my first list it died to chalice at 0 and that wasn't happening, but having my only removal in chains at one is no good, I def. agree there, but adding FOW x4 doesnt insure a stop to chalice, though it obviously helps with a lit of things.  Thanks
 and we'll keep working on it!
-King
 

chrome mox is a no no, and mox diamond works great with crucible and the artifact lands.  there are only twelve cards that DONT need colored mana. I need the diamonds to secure enough colored mana, as the deck has only sevenish blue/black sources depending on how you count.  I did forget to include a tolarian academy though.  The titans might be a stretch, but diversity is good and they play great against discard effects and counters which are everywhere.  I could drop them for one more plating and top, but again, it loses some versatility, or what some call "unfocused", he he. 

we should know by now that full fours of every card is not the best strategy.  Why would painter's decks only run one painter and three grindstones or whatever if four of each was better.  Answer: to make room for other important stuff.  I only need two tops and can tutor or just top for one pretty easily.

being that my curve stops at three( not counting the titans) I dont really need four sculptors as I can top or tutor for one as well. Same goes for plating really, its just "win more" as they say

as for the vapors, they are very useful for opponent's threats, and with a plated fiend and two artifact lands I only need to bounce 3 artifacts for ten damge, but those vapors will be sided easily.  One thing about sideboards is if your deck is too tight, you cant take anything out without hurting yourself as well.  If you look at my first list, it seemed all over the place, but it was focused on simply different things, now it is more aggressive and probably combos better, but it still has to be flexable or you lose.  Some minor tweeks for sure though.

yes the top combo!  Heres an aggro/combo update...

4 glaze fiend
3 etherium sculptor
3 master of etherium
2 salvage titan
3 sensei's divining top
3 cranial plating
4 thorn of amethyst
2 crucible of worlds
4 chain of vapor
4 thoughtseize
3 mox diamond
1 b. lotus
1 mox jet
1 mox saphire
1 lotus petal
1 mana crypt
1 brainstorm
1 timewalk
1 ancestral recall
1 demonic tutor
1 vampiric tutor
1 strip mine
4 wasteland
4 vault of whispers
4 seat of the synod
2 undergound sea
I opted to disclude tinker and a few more tutors due to lack of singletons, but I ve upped the creature count considerably as well as the disruption in thorn, thoughtseize 5strip effects/crucible and full four of chain of vapor, which works wonders with crucible. The sideboard should include the alt wins like brainfreeze and more tutors and/or painter-grindstone(which could work great with the sculptor).  Im gonna shuffle this one up!

Thanks for the replies guys, it was a great help!
-King

great replys everyone! thanks for the advice, I'll post an updated list soon, but lots of good suggestions.  I forgot about glaze fiend being returned with the recall, stupid colored artifacts... but chain of vapor works really well.  My original intention was more of a combo aggro deck, but the affinity version might be alot better.  I really feel like glazefiend could be a new Tarmogoyf in vintage since there are so many cheap or free artifacts running around and lots of card draw, if its not comboed for 10-15 damage it will almost always get in for 4 or so.

Ill put an updated list up soon.  Thanks again!

-king

so here's a sort of pet deck built around an overlooked shards of alara card in GLAZE FIEND. a sort of flying reverse atog if you will, but pretty handy in a beatdown.

its focused on first turn glaze fiend and second turn drop 4-5 "0 cmc" artifacts to give our friend a boost and then cast hurkyl's recall to do it again hopefully for lethal damage. 
Im sure its not super strong, and if i dont draw a recall or chain of vapor I die to chalice at zero, but I think the fiend has some potential if worked out right (a heavier blue build with FOW to make you goons happy pershaps?) and its just fun to drop three bauble's, a mox, play thoughtcast, cycle street wraith and drop the fiend with three cards comiing next turn and hopefully a yawgs will to sum it up.  Other more "serious" cards i've considered are mox diamonds and ad nauseam as this is super effective with all the no cost artifacts but hurst when i draw a street wraith or thoughtcast, thus the exclusion.


4 glaze fiend
4 hurkyl's recall
4 thoughtcast
1 d. tutor
1 v. tutor
1 i. seal
1 ponder
1 brainstorm
1 a. recall
1 t. walk
1 t. twister
1 yawg's will
1 mana crypt
1 b. lotus
1 lotus p.
5 mox
3 chain of vapor
4 street wraith
4 mishra's bauble
2 urza's bauble
3 engineered explosives
2 tormod's crypt
1 tolarian academy
4 seat of the synod
4 vault of whispers
4 b/u fetch


thanks for reading, show me a better build or comment on this one!

-King

you guys are funny, everybody Eureka!

This sort of comment adds nothing to a discussion, while acting as a potential spam-magnet as well. Verbal Warning.
-Godder

post a 60 card deck

if you can splash a color, white might be really interesting for Swords to Plowshares, Enlightened Tutor, Hide/seek and maybe even dawn charm/mana tithe to go with the control side of things, plus a land tax or two.  check out the ethersworn cannonist from shards of alara for necro-artifact-control potential.

there's also street wraith, faerie mcabre, and things like crucible of worlds locks you could throw in if you wanna stay in black.

He nineisnoone I dig on don Juan too!

The puzzle box and megrim are GREAT but  little slow, but Winds of Change is what I forgot!  Two of them, A Hurkyl's Recall and misdirections and Negation Pacts in for the mana drains as this deck plans of killing in one turn (hopefully turn one) at least, and with two Dreams out this is very do-able as one draw seven  plus a winds or even an A. Recall aimed at the opponent is 20 plus life. Thanks for the proven list 

1 Memory Jar
1 Timetwister
1 Windfall
1 Wheel of Fortune
4 Fork
4 Underworld Dreams
4 Dark Ritual
4 S.S.G.
1 D. Tutor
1 V. Tutor
1 I. Seal
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
2 Negation Pact
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Gush
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Winds of Change
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Saph
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mana Crypt
1 B. Lotus
1 L. Petal
3 Underground sea
3 Badlands
1 Island
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted delta

keep 'em coming!

this is a ruff deck that uses a card I havent seen played in vintage almost ever.  Its untested, but I just want to throw it out there and see if Im missing anything obvious!

1 Memory Jar
1 Timetwister
1 Windfall
1 Wheel of Fortune
4 Fork
4 Underworld Dreams
4 Dark Ritual
4 S.S.G.
1 D. Tutor
1 V. Tutor
1 I. Seal
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain (or Daze or Misdirection?)
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Gush
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Saph
1 B. Lotus
1 L. Petal
2 Mox Daimond
3 Underground sea
3 Badlands
2 Island
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Polluted delta

So a simple "draw sevens" combo deck using two seldomly played vintage cards in Fork and Underworld Dreams.  It seems to be synergistic due to the draws being forked, tutors being forked and opposing counters being forked.  We could try a bluer version with twincast or even the twins in the mana drain slot, but with all the tutors and draw, a U Dreams is easy to find and with some permission should avoid bounce.  With one Dreams in play it only takes 2-3 draw spells to win, and with Yawgs Will I can get em all back no prob. The thing I really like about U. Dreams is that thats all anybody DOES in Vintage anyway, so why not make 'em pay!?!

A few cards I considered adding were: Necropotence, Twincast(like I said), Some bounce of my own, Hurkyll's Recall, CotV, Standstill, or any other drawsevens I may have missed.

Again this is ruff and has no board, but please let me know what you guys think, especially those with good ideas!  Thanks-  King

what about NIX, counter target free spell.  or FORK in storm/draw seven decks

or elephant graveyard, ha JK

What about something like...


4 thorn of amethyst (or Chalice or Null Rod, tough choice)
1 Lotus
1 L. Petal
1 mox ruby
1 mox jet
3 faerie macabre
2 prickly boggart
4 nightshade stinger
4 frogtosser banneret
4 boggart harbinger
4 earwig squad
1 yawgmoth's will
1 Demonic tutor
1 vampiric tutor
1 imperial seal
3 dark ritual
4 street wraith
3 night's whisper
1 strip mine
4 wasteland
2 ghost quarter
4 bloodstained mire
4 badlands
2 swamp

more of a monoblack rogue deck focused on the earwigs to pick any deck apart.  the bannarets are great and shoul be put in B/R goblin decks any ways. the harbinger is great with the street wraiths and whisper's, more land control with ghost quarter, and reusable earwigs with Yawg's will, plus dark rituals and black tutors for concistency. macabres main for dredge and flying rogues for aggro mirrors.  Easy first or second turn prowled earwigs.  Possible?

I considered a B/R build with SSGs and manamorphose, piledrivers, matrons, and such, but I like innovation as well. or even a B/U build to support all dat blue cheese!

Le'me kno!

This list just came about due to possible synergy from three spoiled Shards of Alara cards that have been discussed and could have potential.  Im not claiming anything but I'll give the so called "bulk list" and then explain what I think could happen, however it is obviously rough but could be tweaked by thise better than myself possibly into something dangerous or at least annoying (for the opponent)

First the spoiled cards for reference:

Etherium Sculptor      1U
-Artifact Creature - Vedalkan Artificer

    Artifact spells you play cost  less to play.

                                                       1/2
Ethersworn Canonist  1W
-Artifact Creature -Human Cleric

     Each player who has played a nonartifact spell this turn can't play additional nonartifact spells.

                                                     2/2

Master of Etherium    2U
-Artifact Creature - Vedalken Wizard 

     Master of Etherium's power and toughness are each equal to the number of artifacts you control.
     Other artifact creatures you control get +1/+1.

                                                   */*


ETHERTHORN

4 Etherium Sculptor
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Master of Etherium
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Sculpting Steel
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Crucible of worlds
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Saphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Force or Will
4 Curse Catcher
4 Street Wraith
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
1 Academy Ruins
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand


Now I know there are a half dozen really important cards that I've left out, but thats for simplicity at looking at the idea.

Synergy: Thorn and Sculpting steel with crucible and Strip/Wasteland provide most of the mana denial, as well as CotV;  Sculpting steel can copy the Ether Sculptor, the Canonist, AND the Master, who is the "kill" along with the other artifact creatures.  Thorn doesnt effect the other "lock" cards in the deck, namely the Canonist and the Sculptor.

The rest is temporary filler, like street wraith(although quite good) or general permission in FoW and Curse Catcher.

The parts that bother me are the 1) lack of draw engine 2) workshop mirrors, 3) of course Dredge, Affinity, and 4) maybe the manabase.

Again this is more a note on the synergies between the canonist, the sculptor, and the thorn, but it seems like it could cripple a lot of decks.  No more than one non-artifact spell per turn, and everything costs a lot more, but not for me. 

I feel there is some serious potential to this strategey, but I need help tightening it up so please give some advise and deck revisions.  Thanks a bunch!