Re: Filling out 5 Colour Stax

[Lunar]

Fish and FCG spring to mind....

My point on the aggro was that in a permanent war that you arent winning portal isnt really doing you any good unless you have all the proper pieces out...the question is then "is portal really any good here unless its late game and you are already winning"

Something like fish or fcg can just play out a few threats before you get portal out and viable, and even once portal starts working its going to be enough a lot of times to get through lethal damage..if its a fast big creature that can kill you in less than 4 turns portal is bad....but hey...this is just from my experiences (which is probably more experience with possessed portal than anybody else with possibly the exception of the original creators...even then it would be pretty close)

The life from Fastbond SHOULD be irrelevant.  A better argument is "this lock relies on two singletons." 

Should....but not always the case...the second point is the most important though since you are relying on a "combo" of 2 1ofs and a 2of in the deck for it to actually work in your advantage...not to mention you need something that will kill the opponent already in play for portal to be effective...since you dont get to draw either and must rely only on what is already out there or in your hand....

Portal denies that priveledge of drawing cards ONLY if you can keep portal working for the rest of the relevant game...Im still really wanting to hear from juggernaught about his experiences with portal through the event...

It still seems like a "win more" card in this deck...and I still havnt heard any convincing arguments for keeping portal in over something like another titan or sphere of resistance #4 or anything else being used in stax that is missing from this deck (crucible #3 maybe)

[Revvik]

The life from Fastbond SHOULD be irrelevant.  A better argument is "this lock relies on two singletons." 

Should....but not always the case...the second point is the most important though since you are relying on a "combo" of 2 1ofs and a 2of in the deck for it to actually work in your advantage...not to mention you need something that will kill the opponent already in play for portal to be effective...since you dont get to draw either and must rely only on what is already out there or in your hand....

NOT true.  A kill condition is unnecessary at this point, since once the 'portal-lock' is in place, you're just using it to completely remove their board and hand from the game.  THEN you can kill them.

I'd also like to hear how well Portal performed there.

[Lunar]

without a kill condition availible, at some point you have to get rid of portal to drop your own in...at that point the opponent will get at least a little chance to build up something again...unless you already have them locked down in other ways...but then you would have never needed the portal in the first place...the stax player isnt building permanents while portal is in play, just getting rid of the opponents (and maybe yours if you dont also have fastbond/crucible in play).

Its the fact that at some point without a kill condition already in play, when you get portal in you have to at some point stop the portal lock to get a kill in play..if you dont have the needed parts you have to give the opponent SOME SORT of chance to get back in it, its not always the greatest sort of chance, but its something which makes it not a hard lock....but hey dont get me wrong...im really nitpicking here I know...perhaps we can just drop the whole thing cause its really not important...I think I know that I wouldnt run the portal in this build...heh so its really a moot point.

Id rather start up some more relevant conversation like the ability of stax to utilize the flame/vault combo now that its availible...any thoughts there? Hey if portal at 8 + Crucible at 3 and Fastbond at G is a viable combo for the deck then Flame/Vault should be decent too, lol...

But seriously...what do you all think of using these cards as part of the build? Obviously NOT with suppresion field, but in nonfield welder based Stax decks...Both of the pieces can be useful on their own (fussilade as late game win or early to mid game board clearer of sorts) and time vault can clear an opponents board with tangle wire and stax sort of things out there....its been done in the past, but now it has a relevant combo win availible (hey if control decks can be combo based now why cant stax too?) I think this would make Yawgmoths will a must for sure so you can use fussilade early and not worry about having to find a second (freeing up an extra spot in the deck eh)....any comments on this...any proposed builds? Ill get to work on one when I can I guess...

[Tin_Mox5831]

Wow, we've gone on quite a different tangent with this thread since I was here last. I guess maybe I should weigh in with some uninformed thoughts.

Possessed Portal: Interesting. I think there's something better for this slot, but it proved to be a good choice at the time.

Mind's Eye: I thought this was a cool inclusion. Also, as the deck's designer mentioned, it couples great with Karn.

March Of The Machines: Great card for that meta. Suicide in Chicago. Good job calling the meta.

I've also been tweaking my list a lot lately, and I'm currently using this list:

Mishra's Workshop x 4
City Of Brass x 4
Gemstone Mine x 4
Wasteland x 4
God's Eye, Gate To The Rekai x 1
Tolarian Academy x 1
Strip Mine x 1
Mox Jet x 1
Mox Ruby x 1
Mox Pearl x 1
Mox Emerald x 1
Mox Sapphire x 1
Black Lotus x 1
Mana Vault x 1
Mana Crypt x 1
Sol Ring x 1
Balance x 1
Karn, Silver Golem x 1
Engineered Explosives x 1
Smokestack x 4
Crucible Of Worlds x 4
Chalice Of The Void x 4
Sphere Of Resistance x 4
Chains Of Mephistopheles x 2
Seal Of Cleansing x 2
Goblin Welder x 2
Imperial Seal x 1
Ancestral Recall x 1
Demonic Tutor x 1
Demonic Consultation x 1
Vampiric Tutor x 1
Trinisphere x 1
Tinker x 1

It seems to be working pretty well for me. I had cut Karn and EE for two Null Rods for awhile, and while it wasn't bad, I felt like I needed to have one more win condition in my deck. It really bothered me to have to cut the Rods, but the results weren't too drastically different and the extra win condition helps me out. Watching Jacob play Consultation in his Shop Aggro deck at Richmond has really helped me rediscover this card. It has been great in this deck due to the high number of 4-ofs this deck packs. Feel free to post any suggestions, as they are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Dave

[Juggernaut GO]

I still think null rod has always been better then chalice.  March of the machines does the same thing as chalice for 0, and you can drop null rod turn 1 off workshop the same as chalice for 0.  the only difference is when you draw moxes later in game,  they aren't a complete dead and useless draw and you can actually play them for welding or tolarian mana.  chalice for 0 gives you no chance to work around locking yourself out of the game, where null rod and march give you many more options. 

March of machines essentially says "Hi, I make your yawgmoths will suck balls, and I kill you in 2 turns"  In fact, I think I will have to sharpie that on my new foil haha.

Besides, with everyone playing mox monkies, chalice becomes even more of  a  dead card.  Sure, you could always chalice for 1, but that kills off 1/4 of your deck.  The argument will always be there, and it comes down to personal preference.  I ran another crap workshop deck in richmond a while ago that finished 2nd and had null rod, chalice and force of will in it.  it wrecked other workshops, but got its ass beat by aggro decks.

I don't think march of machines would be suicide in a chicago metagame, But I would probably run a shattering pulse or 2 maindeck or maybe 1 shattering pulse + 1 mystical tutor.  I still haven't decided whether or not to fly to chicago to play,  the world poker finals start at foxwoods that same weekend so its either play in 2 poker tournaments and possibly win a bunch of cash, or have a ton of fun in chicago playing magic.

[b-tings]

@ B-tings

I havnt seen anybody talking too much about flamevault yet in stax...even though we probably should be (maybe people want to keep it quiet for a bit still.)

your post was just odd...very broad and was hard to put into place here in this thread since we have been focusing very closly on specifics...one at a time....

*sigh*

Flamevault brought me to themanadrain. Not this thread.

Lets just drop the whole not stax bit.