GT10: A Delicate Balance

[Bill Copes]

4. Leyline Of The Void is still, hands down, the best dredge hate out there and it fits fine in this deck. I just think you are probably boarding wrong vs. Dredge. You DON'T side out Duresses vs. Dredge because they are super important for taking their anti-hate. Here's what you do.

In a vacuum, I can see that Leyline completely shuts off their deck.  The fact is that dredge runs 8 spells that hit leyline, post board.  In the past 3 events I've played in, the Ichorid player has found an answer by turn 3.  Leyline doesn't stop them from digging for these answers.  You basically need 2 pieces of dredge hate out at once in order to guarantee a win.  Those pieces should probably be a combination of Pithing Needle, Relic of Prognitus and Yixlid Jailer, simply because they're easier to cast, can be more versatile (needle is awesome, relic can cantrip) and don't force you to mull into crappy hands that do nothing aside from "Leyline, land, go, do nothing for 3 turns."

However, if this thread were about a ritual deck, I'd be an advocate FOR Leyline in the board.

[Stormanimagus]

4. Leyline Of The Void is still, hands down, the best dredge hate out there and it fits fine in this deck. I just think you are probably boarding wrong vs. Dredge. You DON'T side out Duresses vs. Dredge because they are super important for taking their anti-hate. Here's what you do.

In a vacuum, I can see that Leyline completely shuts off their deck.  The fact is that dredge runs 8 spells that hit leyline, post board.  In the past 3 events I've played in, the Ichorid player has found an answer by turn 3.  Leyline doesn't stop them from digging for these answers.  You basically need 2 pieces of dredge hate out at once in order to guarantee a win.  Those pieces should probably be a combination of Pithing Needle, Relic of Prognitus and Yixlid Jailer, simply because they're easier to cast, can be more versatile (needle is awesome, relic can cantrip) and don't force you to mull into crappy hands that do nothing aside from "Leyline, land, go, do nothing for 3 turns."

However, if this thread were about a ritual deck, I'd be an advocate FOR Leyline in the board.

That's actually a very good point. Perhaps this deck is so fast that you only need cards like Nihil Spellbomb and Jailer etc. to stall long enough to win while going for the jugular. Jailer beats for 2 and bomb + Relic both draw a card. I think I might give them a shot.

[Cane1024]

Yes exactly. In tropical storm which runs dark rit/cabal rit, Leyline is fine. But in this deck, Its much harder to cast leyline. Nihil Spellbomb, Jailer, Ravenous trap and needle seem to be the best hate for dredge here. Alone each one stops them, any of them on board paired together is lights out.

[Bill Copes]

That's actually a very good point. Perhaps this deck is so fast that you only need cards like Nihil Spellbomb and Jailer etc. to stall long enough to win while going for the jugular. Jailer beats for 2 and bomb + Relic both draw a card. I think I might give them a shot.

Yes exactly. In tropical storm which runs dark rit/cabal rit, Leyline is fine. But in this deck, Its much harder to cast leyline. Nihil Spellbomb, Jailer, Ravenous trap and needle seem to be the best hate for dredge here. Alone each one stops them, any of them on board paired together is lights out.

Unfortunately, just about every dredge player is including Leyline of Sanctity in their boards, so targeted graveyard removal (Tormod's, Trap, Nihil bomb) should probably stay on the sidelines for now.  This is the ONLY reason why I'm running Relic over Nihil bomb.  Jailer, Needle, Relic and Planar Void are probably the best options right now.

[Ego_Sum]

I like your list. Drain Tendrils are very popular here in Barcelona, Spain. But I' m that you miss an important piece for this kind of deck: Fire/Ice, this card is so good against: Fish, Jace/Tezzeret, Oath, Sideboard Xantid Swarms. It can also buy some time with Ice or Pitch if needed.  In the Eternal Weekend (15 people tournament 2 weeks ago) both finalist ran 2 Fire / Ice (and they were playing Drain Tendrils).

According to Leyline of the Void: IMHO it only fits in a deck that runs bot, dark rituals and 7 or more reactive protection (i.e. countergaic). This is based in two principles, the first one is that ritual allows to hardcast it easier, and the second is that 7+ countrespell (FoW and 3 Pierce will be nice), and this is  because then you will have the option to protect it consistently, duress is not nice just because they will normally play the anti-hate from the top by drawing the card of the turn or from the Bazaar.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

[nineisnoone]

4. Leyline Of The Void is still, hands down, the best dredge hate out there and it fits fine in this deck. I just think you are probably boarding wrong vs. Dredge. You DON'T side out Duresses vs. Dredge because they are super important for taking their anti-hate. Here's what you do.

In a vacuum, I can see that Leyline completely shuts off their deck.  The fact is that dredge runs 8 spells that hit leyline, post board.  In the past 3 events I've played in, the Ichorid player has found an answer by turn 3.  Leyline doesn't stop them from digging for these answers.  You basically need 2 pieces of dredge hate out at once in order to guarantee a win.  Those pieces should probably be a combination of Pithing Needle, Relic of Prognitus and Yixlid Jailer, simply because they're easier to cast, can be more versatile (needle is awesome, relic can cantrip) and don't force you to mull into crappy hands that do nothing aside from "Leyline, land, go, do nothing for 3 turns."

However, if this thread were about a ritual deck, I'd be an advocate FOR Leyline in the board.

In my opinion you need 2 piece of strong hate plus to win (plus, typically having a fast enough win condition).  But not all hate pieces are the same though.  Late needles aren't great and if it's the standard GY hate spell, I find that you are looking more for 3 pieces of hate. 

Don't mull to oblivion for Leyline, but IMO it is still the best dredge hate card.  But it's not so great that you can just skimp out on your overall card quantity.