I have been sitting on this decklist for some time, but u...

[xaos]

Quote (Hi-Val @ Dec. 08 2003,02:20)So Mystic Remora vs. Arcane Lab when screwing around with TPS and Long? Remora comes out fast but goes away soon. It draws into something like 9-10 spells. But it doesn't actively screw Long the way that Arcane Lab does. The downside is that you may never hit 3 mana against Long. Opinions?

well, personally i dont think that the matchup against long/storm-kill decks are too rough to begin with.  at least in my build, 4 MD stifle works wonders.  knowing those would be in the deck already, id choose arcane lab over the remora.  it sticks around longer, doesnt eat up your resources in the meantime, and remember, your opponent can always wait till you decide to stop paying the upkeep to kill you... its not like youll have the chance to play anything else with the remora in play anyway.
  its kind of funny.  if the deck packed arcane lab often, id actually reconsider putting the voidmages back in for those oodles of synergy, but my meta doesnt really see long much anymore.  seems everyone feels that it's time is up already

oh, and i failed to remember that, against long game 1, you have access to 4 stifle, 4 FoW, 3 daze, and 3 null rod.  7 0-mana counters, 4 1-mana counters, and 3 deck hosers maindeck seem to be quite the shit against long.  in my first matchup playing fish vs long, i hosed the hell out of the player(who was indeed a competent player, and i believe a TMD regular, sorry i forgot yer name) every game we played, both maindeck and post-sideboard.

[wuaffiliate]

Quote (Blommando @ Dec. 07 2003,12:03)1st round: Dragon, obviously one of the bad matchups we got and there was nothing i really could have done

im even with dragon, running 3 seal of removal, 1 beb, 1-2 boomerang, and a 4th stifle its quite winable.

[Blommando]

Quote (wuaffiliate @ Dec. 08 2003,08:05)

Quote (Blommando @ Dec. 07 2003,12:03)1st round: Dragon, obviously one of the bad matchups we got and there was nothing i really could have done

im even with dragon, running 3 seal of removal, 1 beb, 1-2 boomerang, and a 4th stifle its quite winable.

well the thing was, that i was running 3 md stifles and only 2 miserable beb's and ofcourse never draw them in time.

[Nastaboi]

Here is my mini report of that Saturday Tourney in Helsinki.

1st Round: Antti "GG" Malin playing WW/r

1st game: Antti plays critters, I play nothing. He gets his rebel engine going while I draw shit.

2nd game: Antti plays True Believer, I play Spiketail. I disrupt his manabase but draw no other creatures in ten turns that took him to bring me down. He even got a Maze to hold my Spiketail   .

0-1, games 0-2

2nd Round: Kari "Nice Kid" Vottonen playing Stompy

1st game: Kari plays Christmas Wurm aka Tempting one and I just can't get enough power with my creatures to kill it.

2nd game: I Force his Land Grant and Fire his Llanowar. He cannot gain back that tempo loss.

3rd game: Curious Faeries go all the way.

1-1, games 2-3

3rd Round: Axel "Goos" Toivonen playing Bosh Senior

1st game: He mulls to five, I play Kai and some Wizards, he 'cedes.

2nd game: I play Null Rod, he plays MD Blood Moon. I play two gays and start beatings. I Rn'R his both Smokestacks, second one with killing my Null Rod and Crypting his grave away. When he plays a Jar I kill his Welder in response and he cannot make it.

2-1, games 4-3

4th Round: Max "SaltyBoy" Sjöblom playing Dr4g0n

1st game: He goes wild with his two Bazaars, I with my double Curiosity 'mancer. I draw no wastes but two FoWs, Kai and two more wizads, countering everything he plays, and Null Rod finally seals his artifact mana.

2nd game: Stifle Delta, Waste Bazaar, Waste Underground...

3-1, games 6-3

5th Round: Max "Whinewhine" Lehtinen playing Spoils Mask

1st game: He Unmasks my counter and plays his combo with me helplessly watching.

2nd game: I Daze his Sol Ring, but he has a Crypt and first turn Mask. I have a Maze in hand but that doesn't help since he plays Lightning Greaves and Dreaghtnought next turn.

3-2, games 6-5

I end up placing 4th on tiebrakers, but only top three made money since there were two other people on 9 points and I think that it was fair. I had fun nevertheless and mad props to Blommando who had only two Volcanics and played with mountains instead.

Some random thoughts:

- Voidmage Prodigy was golden, especially against anything comboish. That fat boy went all the way Saturday. Ain't gonna replace them.

- MD Stifle > your ass. F/I > Stifle against artifact decks though, I ended up siding some out against Bosh.

- Blood Moon is no badass. If you manage to get one basic you'll be fine.

Edit:
- Curiosity > Standstill.

[Hi-Val]

Are BEBs necessary with Seals in the SB? My meta is heavy combo, so I am looking at pretty much the Dragon, Welder (which F/I nails) and Wheel of Fortune as well as Blood Moon. Not much Sligh here, so it wouldn't work on that too much. I just feel that Seals are major dicking to Dragon and Tog, whereas BEBs don't have enough targets to toast.

Would REBs be better? I get this nice feeling about blasting out Long's Timetwister or Windfall, or nailing Intuition in Dragon. It hits Dr. Teeth and is just a royal pain for anyone playing with blue.

[BreathWeapon]

I don't think BEB is worth running if you MD Stifles and pack Seals in the SB.

[Sandster]

I'd like to explain Voidmage Prodigy for a bit.

Even with my limited experience with the deck, it's quite clear the deck lacks a truly dominating card (such as Tog, Karn, Bazaar, Mask/Dreadnaught, SotF, Scepter, etc.) that many of the other strong decks has.  Combined with a slow clock, Gay/r takes a while to win games, and in this time there's plenty of time for your opponent to steal the game, especially against a counter base with a grand total of 4 hard counters (not including Kai) that requires pitching, a few Stifle and maybe MisD, and a bunch of Daze effects.  That seems to be a lot, but it's extremely risky given the nature of the deck.  The deck just does not have enough denial.

This is where Kai comes into play.  With Kai on the board in, say, turn 3 on and UU open, your opponent will have to ponder as to whether to try to bust through with several spells at once and running into FoW, Daze, or Stifle.  Kai gives the deck that hard counter that it desperately needs to continue to control the board without fear of disruption.  If Kai is instead a, say, Mogg Fanatic, then there's no fear of your opponent to amass a few spells with disruption/counters and bust through your counter wall.  Duress cannot stop a Kai.  Combined with the help of other counters, Kai is very effective and just may be the MVP of the deck.

Many criticize the card for being too slow.  However, that's mostly irrelevant.  It is like saying Morphling (work with me here, say this is 2 years ago) is a horrible card because it takes a while to get on the board.  Gay/r is built to efficiently put critters on the board and control it with cheap counters early on.  In this case, Kai can be pitched to FoW in the early game (much like Morphling was in Keeper).  Does it matter if the pitched card is Kai, Flying Men, Daze, or anything else?  Fish already handles the early game very well; it is the late game where Kai truly shines.

You don't see Sligh taking out Cursed Scroll because it's not the ideal 1st turn drop, and along the same reasoning Voidmage Prodigy should not be taken out of Gay/r.  You can, but it's what makes the deck truly shine in the long games the deck tends to be in.  I would MD at least 2 and probably 3, no exception.

[wuaffiliate]

i dont like kai, ive played with him alot, hes just not extremely effective in a deck that likes to cast spells every turn, or a deck that uses mana producers to attack. im running 3 razor fin hunters and they are so damn good so far.

it all comes down to personal preference, as ive said before you can run merfolk of the pearl trident in that slot and still win a tourney.

[TheRock]

Generally I am using lots of spells every turn but I can almost always hold two blue for Kai once the game goes much later.

It comes down to what kind of utility you want for your last creature slot.  I use Kai since I don't think four FoWs are enough, I want more for later on in the match, and I don't own P10 so I have more than 7 permanent sources anyway.  Mogg Fanatic caught my eye too since I can use it against Sligh and Welder.\n\n

[Hi-Val]

I find Rootwaters are just better in a combo-heavy meta. If you have Kai sitting out every turn with 2 open, why not drop an easier-to-cast creature and start taking win conditions? Against scrub aggro and control, Kai does a lot, but with combo sitting across, the two open mana just have a better use.

Kai is good. Rooty is good. Which one you run really depends on your meta and play style.

[TheRock]

Ack, no more responses?

Thief would work in a combo heavy metagame I guess, but if I may ask, which kind of combos do you usually see?  Dragon?

I tried Razorfin Hunter last night and I was extremely impressed.  I had an insane creature removal card.  However, the casting cost was really a pain to use.

[Flurp™]

I have little experence with gay/r but I am wondering id fire/ice should be considered for the deck.  It would make the aggro matches even better and its never dead.  This might be just because of my meta (very aggro heavy), but it seems like a good choice.

[PucktheCat]

Quote (Flurp™ @ Dec. 11 2003,19:54)I have little experence with gay/r but I am wondering id fire/ice should be considered for the deck.  It would make the aggro matches even better and its never dead.  This might be just because of my meta (very aggro heavy), but it seems like a good choice.

Fire/Ice is a great card.  What would you cut, that's the real question.

Leo

[Hi-Val]

F/I takes out Welders and Workers, along with scrub aggro. But I am debating its use in a combo/workshop control meta on the sideboard.

Any opinions as well on a lone Gaea's Blessing to combat Dragon in the SB? The jank tech of it is appealing; however, Crypt is strong as well, and does more against more decks.

And since the deck contains no actual fish anymore, I suggest the name "Hot Pants" as a nice gay continuation.

[Chaos Blade]

Heres a question for yea, what is Stifle used for against Scepter and Dragon. What do you exactly Stifle? What do you guys think about  dorpping a Spiketail for the 3rd Stifle? In my underpowered build im running 3 Stifle 1 Misdirection and 3 Daze now, with Forces.

[Sandster]

Quote (Chaos Blade @ Dec. 12 2003,17:44)Heres a question for yea, what is Stifle used for against Scepter and Dragon. What do you exactly Stifle?

Do you actually want those questions answered or are you saying they're amazing against those decks?

Against Scepter, you Stifle either the imprint ability (so they get a scepter with nothing imprinted) or Stifle once when they use the scepter to get around one spell, giving you time to Rack and Ruin or drop a Null Rod.

Against Dragon you Stifle the leave play ability so the Dragon player is left with all of his non-Dragon permanents removed from the game and Dragon in the grave.

As for your other question, It's probably wise to cut a Daze instead of a Spiketail.  You don't get an Island into play all that often (and when you do, it's best to keep it on the board to keep laying threats and activating manlands) and beatdown is better than weak, reactive counters.  While youy can cut a creature (down to 14), it's probably best to cut a Daze or 3 first.

[pernicious dude]

Quote I have little experence with gay/r but I am wondering id fire/ice should be considered for the deck.

This is really pretty funny.
Fire/Ice was absolutely the number one reason for the red splash in Fish in the first place.
Given red for F/I, we looked around at what else was there,
and found this Razorfin Hunter guy who was,
glory be, a Merfolk.
Remember when fish used to run Merfolk?
Oh, sorry, I guess that was before your time.
And then Workshops happened and hey,
we already had the red for the best artifact hate.
Then Grim came in, requiring you to somehow keep a red source on the board,
and the fish left because, I don't know,
I guess being unblockable across from Islands was bad.
Who ever sits across from Islands, anyway?
Apparently along the way, the Fire/Ice left, too.
Like I say, this is really pretty funny.

[Chaos Blade]

Well in my build I have room for Daze and Stifles. Plus Dazes have been golden for me.

EDIT: Pernicous Dude is right... Red Merfolk need to be discovered more to.

[Hi-Val]

F/I is pure dynamite. I think it was cut because of Lavamancers, who often act as recurring Fire. If I were to add F/I in again though, it would be in place of Daze and a Spiketail or two. But Lavamancers already do such a good job that F/I is best put on the sideboard.

[panne]

Hm, I think the name Gay/r kinda sucks and have a new suggestion. Woulden't something like: Purple Gay, Gay Purple, Purple.dec be good? After all, if you mix Blue and Red, you get Purple. And you all know Purple is very.. gay.

I got one more though, Bloody Fish/Fishes.
Sui with red - Bloody Suicide (have you seen this..?)
Fish with red - Bloody Fish?

Lets vote!  

[Blommando]

Why to rape such a good name as Gay/r with ridiculous names pulled out of the head.
You can call this whatever you want, but dont even try to ask others to call this something like hot bucket of purple jizz.(hmmm..it actually sounds good.)
And in unpowered builds you can easily manage to fit in the dazes, stifles and precious F/I with original creaturebase.
I have cutted null rods down to 2 so i can play with 2 dazes, 3 stifles and 2 f/i:s.

But my question is here, has anyone tried with maindecked boomerang to interact with chalices for 1 and
does boomerang+stifle -> chalice for 2, work or not ?

[Nastaboi]

I call my build "Just Merry", named after "Robin Hood: Men In Tights".

Quote Robin: We are Robin Hood and his Merry Men.
Tuckman: Gays?
Robin: No-nonono. Just merry.

Edit: Thanks, Blommando, corrected this.

[Blommando]

I just felt like correcting this...

Quote Peasant: Gays?

Sorry, but it wasnt a peasant. it was a Rabbi Tuckman (played by Mel Brooks writer, producer and director of that and many other awesome movies)
For backup check imdb.com