Worse Than Fish.dec

[SpencerForHire]

I was thinkin you could easily get out a negator or hyppie, this version is a little more shaky though becuase youll lose more then 1 card advantage playing these big guys and even more if you lose your gator..
Psychtog is a no-no because 1 he cant evade and 2 every swing you want to matter you'll have to ditch things, it just isn't as synergistic as I would like.
In relations to the green splash I was thinking perhaps Troll Ascetic, although the {G}{G} cc is rather disgruntling he can really rip it up when dropped.

[Justinsane]

I have been messing around with unstable mutation in my fish deck.  It turns my 1/1 cloud of faeries into the 4/4 big bad ass cloud of ass kicking. It has worked out ok for me.  It has seemed to help the most in my Tog games.  It speeds up the beats. What is your guys opinion of Unstable Mutation in Fish?

[SpencerForHire]

My friend (who is playing MonoU but soon changing to Worse then Fish.dec of his own) uses 4 unstables, I'm not sure how he keeps room for them but it is insane how much he speeds up damage wise.  He in general can make a close call go his way with this card and I frown whenever he double unstables something, there is always something about when he sends random flying 7/7 flyers at me with a standstill on the table.
The only problem is that it HAS to speed the game up, if you get locked after it is played you could be facing your creatures demise and a loss of card advantage and your opponent didn't have to work much at all to do so. (maze of ith, chant, etc..)
I have at times locked him with Stax to a point where he lost all his creatures to unstables.

[Jacob Orlove]

Here's the list I played saturday:
Second Place:
Worse Than Fish.dec
Jacob Orlove

4 River Boa
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Spiketail Hatchling
3 Suq'Ata Firewalker

4 Force of Will
2 Stifle

4 Standstill
4 Curiosity
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk

3 Null Rod
2 Oxidize (Yeah, maindeck. SO GOOD!)

4 Mishra's Factory
3 Faerie Conclave
4 Tropical Island
4 Flooded Strand
1 Yavimaya Coast  (Should have been Library of Alexandria)
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Island

Sideboard: (should have been different)
2 Naturalize
2 Hidden Guerrillas
2 Drop of Honey
1 Null Rod
1 Stifle
2 Annul
2 Magus of the Unseen
2 Maze of Ith
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

I'd like to make room in the board for a Black Vise, a Misdirection, and at least 2x BeB. The Annuls can go, but beyond that I'm not so sure.

Fish with black is really just a bad Psychatog deck.

Unstable Mutation is just worse than playing kirdape's version with Mongrel and Rootwalla.

Double-green is way too hard for this deck to get. Even a single green can be tough.

[SpencerForHire]

Double-green is way too hard for this deck to get. Even a single green can be tough.

That was my thinking concerning the ascetics, but I still think the oxidize's are just way to ackward in this deck.  Maybe a sleeping enchantment is in order like say, [card]Hidden Guerillas[/card].  The idea of an unpermanent card that, even with the powerful ability it has in this deck just seems unreliable.
I don't even know if Guerillas should be in this build but the oxidizes feel ackward.

[jpmeyer]

Oxidize is amazing in this deck.  Soooooooooooo good

[Justinsane]

i just rely on null rod and goblin vandal to deal with artifacts.  I am also thinking about adding gorilla shamans just for a 1 drop hater.

This text is red. The splash color in my deck is not. READ THE LIST.

Honestly.
-Jacob

[SpencerForHire]

I'll trust in Oxidize for now, we'll soon have a build of this UG up, if we pull out the oxidizes, i'll inform what we changed.. I just dont know..

[Jacob Orlove]

Oxidize is amazing in this deck.  Soooooooooooo good

Yeah, it's ridiculous. At worst, it's a 1cc stone rain. At best, it kills nasty stuff like chalice for 2 or platinum angel. And sometimes it's a Duress for one of their counters (especially if you go after a turn 1 sapphire).

[Meddling Mike]

It seems like people are constantly underestimating the sheer power of oxidize, the previous standard cards for destroying artifacts were shatter and rack and ruin. Rack and Ruin has the benefit of being able to take out two artifacts very efficiently at instant speed, but on rare occasion that can be seen as a drawback when your opponent only has one threatening artifact in play. Oxidize's only drawback is that it happens to be green, so if your deck is already making excellent use of green, as Jacob's list does with the inclusion of the boas and other top notch creatures, I don't see any reason NOT to include oxidize. I think it will also be a card that endures and shows up in multiple formats, it takes care of cards such as masticore and makes welding Jar useless which is really a nice bonus that shatter or rack and ruin can't claim. I've already seen it used extremely effectively against type II/block affinity decks.

[Justinsane]

sorry that i got off topic about the red splash, but it seems that people are mentioning artifact hate in this deck so i gave my ideas

[SpencerForHire]

Oh I don't doubt oxidizes power, I use to run [card]Crumble[/card]s in my B/G void deck, then I just switched to four deeds, then i sold my voids for better cards
Either way I only implied that when looking for synergy, I didn't see it as much in Oxidize as I do in some other cards run in Fish based decks.

[SpencerForHire]

A new thought occured to me while I was working on a standstill based deck just now and I wanna know what you guys think of it.
Perhaps the newest tool for wtf.dec:

[card]Caustic Wasps[/card]
Flying.
When Caustic Wasps do damage to a player, you may destroy target artifact that player controls.
1/1

This is a little expensive in fish, but not by much.  It blows an artifact every turn.  Is just as evasive as the rest of the litter and you can even attach a curiosity to him.  I no longer doubt oxidize but this just seems like may be more synergistic.  With one of these under a standstill any fact based deck will be destroyed.
What do you think?  Im not exactly sure what would be remove for them and I don't suggest removing all oxidizes for them but they are nice, I'm trying two right now.

[Jacob Orlove]

The only problem with Caustic Wasps is that you really don't need it in the main, and other stuff is stronger in the side.

Oxidize actually has great synergy as a LD effect, which combines well with stifles, strips, and hatchlings.

[rgbeatskeeper]

river boa in fish eh? don't seem to good, everytime some post a good deck people ruin it by added there own "tech" to it sad really.

Translation: "You want to put River Boa in Fish?  It doesn't seem too good.  Everytime soneome posts a good deck, people ruin it by adding their own 'tech' to it.  It is quite sad, really. -Rico

[Kowal]

That's the dumbest and most worthless post I've ever seen.

Please for future reference put some reasoning in to your opinions.  Especially when your opinion is wrong.  Thanks.

[SpencerForHire]

@rgbeatskeeper:  I think you need to get some facts behind what you say.  wtf.dec got 2nd place at the dual lotus tourney and I myself believe runs better then the UR version versus most decks.  The [card]River Boa[/card] is just as evasive against almost every deck as the other creeps and it has 2 power.  The fact that it regenerates just makes it that much better.

[jazzykat]

river boa in fish eh? don't seem to good, everytime some post a good deck people ruin it by added there own "tech" to it sad really.

My head hurts! As was stated earlier Jacob came in second out of 100+ people, your post is only going to get you flamed because:
A: You are incorrect and,
B: You gave absolutely no reasoning for it

[Moxlotus]

river boa in fish eh? don't seem to good, everytime some post a good deck people ruin it by added there own "tech" to it sad really.

My head hurts! As was stated earlier Jacob came in second out of 100+ people, your post is only going to get you flamed because:
A: You are incorrect and,
B: You gave absolutely no reasoning for it

c. bad grammar

isn't adding tech good? Isn't secret tech what pushes a deck over the top against the field? Tech is what gives you victories you have no business winning.

[Jacob Orlove]

Okay, enough. You're all wasting e-trees here. WTF is a good deck that addresses a number of weaknesses of other fish builds. Now, let's get back on topic.

I'm trying to find a good solution to control decks to put in the SB, other than Vise and Mis-d (because I don't want more than one of each of those). Any suggestions?

[Matt]

What sort of control? Tog of course, but are you looking for something that hits Tog AND Control Slaver, or what?

Multani's Harmony/Gaea's Herald vs counterspells?
Daming Matrix versus a lot of things?
That free Rushwood guy?

[Grand Inquisitor]

possibly the aforementioned hiddon gibbons or seedtime?

of course you could always board two underground seas and a yawgwill

[DEA]

wtf.dec is very strong in the current meta
against control you have turn 1 guerillas/gibbons which is a major PITA
against workshop decks, you have wayyyy too many weapons, from strip effects to oxidize, hidden guerillas and STIFLES
i lost to u/g fish many more times than i would have to gay red

the problem, as usual is the random aggro decks, especially those with many red 1/1s, 2/2s and 1/2s
good thing is that boa can block the biggest one and survive

damping matrix
you stop suq'ata, boa and spiketails
0/1s for 1uu are not really a good idea
i feel multani's harmony can be tested
zero card loss is great, especially when you can bait a counter during his turn to get one more threat during yours

[SpencerForHire]

Perhaps to stop the random aggro you could try [card]Douse[/card].
For control I reccomend something like Xantid Swarm, this baby fits perfectly.

[jpmeyer]

Wonder and Sword of Fire and Ice.  That is all.

[TheRock]

Once you put Black Vise and one Misdirection into your sideboard along with your configuration of Sword of Fire and Ice, Blue Elemental Blast, Stifle, and graveyard control, I don't really want to use any more slots for "control" cards.

For control Slavery, I want to stop Thrist for Knowledge.  No card can do that for me other than Force and I already have Welder to worry about.  Blue Elemental Blast can get me Blood Moon, Red Elemental Blast, and that all dangerous Goblin Welder.  So now, I can aim at the recursion and make every BEB and Force I play count.  Why would I want anything more?

Against Landstill and Gay Red, you still have Red Elemental Blast to worry about, in addition to the added threats of Fire/Ice, Grim Lavamancer, and Lightning Bolt.  And Blue Elemental Blast can eliminate every one of them.  With the added threat of Sword of Fire and Ice, Misdirection, and Black Vise, why would you want to bring in any more?

I don't feel that we need to use up slots for cards like Multani's Harmony, Seedtime, Hidden Gibbons (although if I had to pick any card, this would be it), etc.  If anything, I want Blue Elemental Blast, Black Vise, and Misdirection.

Blue Elemental Blast is not that great against Keeper and is crap against Hulk and GAT.  BUT, in addition to helping the mirror and control Slavery matchups, I get a card that gives me a snowball's chance against Food Chain Goblins.  I really like this trade-off.  Misdirection also helps against aggro decks too just like BEB does.  Black Vise is so solid against every kind of control that's it plain wrong.  But no card comes close to comparing with Vise so why give anything else a slot?

Against Keeper, Hulk and GAT, I do like having some extra material.  Black Vise and Misdirection are wonderful.  But what on earth am I going to take out for all of this "tech"?  Cloud of Faeries?  I'm not taking out that many Suq' Ata Firewalkers because I would still like to have a target left for Curiosity and Sword.  Oxidize maybe, but that's only two slots out of the four or five that is proposed in all.

[wuaffiliate]

sigil of sleep helps alot vs aggro also, along with sofi any fish should do extremely well vs aggro.

[Ric_Flair]

I've been meaning to post this for a while and I just now had time.  First, with a deck like this you ABSOLUTELY need to play it first.  As Jacob said, this deck is about synergy, not good cards.  Monkeys smearing poop on the walls of their cages could point out the "weaknesses" of a few of these cards, but they really are good.  Firewalker is amazing and it is a PAIN IN THE ASS to play against.  He eats Welders for lunch.  Also, the River Boas are amazing.  In playtesting they have saved Jacob so many times.  Regeneration is just incredible.  And we all know islandwalk is good.  So basically, try the deck as is before teching it up.  Jacob knows what he is doing.

[jpmeyer]

I looked at it, decided the clock wasn't fast enough, then made my own version that's still really good.  It includes the green beaters and the blue spells, plus Oxidize.

I think that it's really the last obstacle that Fish has had to overcome to be a really solid deck - it's just so slow to kill with.

That being said, Worse than Fish is better in every way but direct creature removal than standard Fish.  The disruption is equal save Oxidize is just better than anything that Red has to offer in artifact removal (even Rack and Ruin and Gorilla Shaman), the draw engine is leaner (since Standstill is truly awful against skilled players), and the clock is orders of magnitude faster.

Fuck, this is kirdape3 on JP's computer.  ph34r.

[Swanky]

Could the use of Elvish Spirit Guide allow access to green mana with lesser difficulty, or would that take up slots better occupied by other cards?  It seems to be the latter; have you tested ESG at all?