[article] MIT DEM RAVAGER GEBEATDOWNT!

[jpmeyer]

Sorry, (insert number from nine to eleven) Land Stompy. Nobody likes you. You scoop to everything.

[Harry Lime]

I'm not really familiar with the block version of this deck (Ravager), so forgive me if this is something that should be common knowledge, but are the ornithopters and (to a lesser degree) frogmites just there to die to skullclamp? They seem pretty ineffective as beatsticks, especially in vintage.

One of my friends has been testing a Ravager deck for type one as well, but he plays a very different creature base than this. I would almost say that his version works more like GAT than conventional aggro, using a lot of aggro control elements as well. I'll see if I can get the list from him and post it for anyone who is curious.

[jpmeyer]

Ornithopter is a really good card here.  It also provides an evasive creature for Ravager's counters should you need it.

[Plainswalker]

Very interesting and a good read. Nice refreshing idea's, I especially liked the U/R Stacker that tries to be more controlling then like Sui black or prison. Are there any cards that you have tried out already and haven't worked or anything you would like to try out in this? Wastelands didn't make the cut? I would imagine they make the Mana Leaks better, but I don't really see where you could make room either, just wondering if they had been looked at.

[CSeraph]

The Ravager list is solid, and Stacker xx listing looks interesting... but you *were* kidding about 'Keeper', right?

Brainstorms, extra dazes and the lack of draw apart curiosity (with 12 creatures??), the madness package without wurms all seem terrible. Seems strictly worse than U/G fish, save for a beefier 1 drop (rootwalla).

Then again, I am fairly certain that list was trademark JP humor.

[jpmeyer]

That was like the first version of that deck.  We've made mad changes to it since then so it's much more like U/G Madness.  That version DID however wreck Workshop Slaver.

I tried to run Wastelands in that Stacker, but that deck doesn't run anywhere near enough lands to actually be able to fit them.

[Meddling Mike]

I'm not really familiar with the block version of this deck (Ravager), so forgive me if this is something that should be common knowledge, but are the ornithopters and (to a lesser degree) frogmites just there to die to skullclamp? They seem pretty ineffective as beatsticks, especially in vintage.

The Frogmites and Ornithopters are more often then not dropped on turn one in decks like these and help drive up the artifact count for later fatty's like Mry Enforcer and the like without tying up mana. Often times a turn one frogmite will get in a few damage and it's true, later you can equip him with skullclamp, swing in with him, then sac him to ravager and draw some cards. The ornithopter is absolutely essential as it can accept the ravager counters when the opponent has managed to tie up the ground a little bit, really more of a concern against aggro decks, and his evasion can often times win you the game. If facing a heavy control environment maybe there are better cards than ornithopter, but that's a big maybe.

[Harry Lime]

Thanks for the explaination   I had misread the Modular ability and thought it could only feed to other modular creatures, but that makes sense now.

edit - typo

[Jakedasnake]

In an ideal metagame, I'd probably consider cutting Ornithopter, as you won't need to fly over any creatures. However, with Ravager, you can build up a large flying creature to fly over aggro d00ds.

Nice article, as always. Weird, isn't it, that a Type 2 deck just added a couple broken cards and became a viable deck? Well, I think it's strange...

[jpmeyer]

Hopefully this'll be the end of "OMG that metagame sucks!  It's just Standard with Sol Rings."

[Dozer]

(Directly copied&pasted from the SCG.com forums)

I love the German in the title of your article!

However:

I was at least mildly intrigued when I saw a Ravager Affinity deck top 8 the last Dülmen tournament,

That was NOT a Ravager Affinity deck! It was an Arcbound.dec (abusing Ravager all the same, though). Maybe I am nitpicking, but calling a deck "Affinity" that has not a single card with the affinity mechanic in it is very misleading (check out the link below). The two decks function very differently, relying on different ways to crank out creatures by the score: Affinity on its own mechanic, and Arcbound.dec on Workshops and artifact mana.

http://www.morphling.de/coverages/top8decks.php?id=110

Dozer

[Swanky]

I enjoyed this article quite a bit!  There's something about the ambient sardonicism in most JP Meyer articles that makes everything seem alright.  It's sort of like a text-based, card game related hug; I digress!

Could the Ravager Affinity list be modified in such a way that allows it to accommodate more red?  Adding Shrapnel Blast would be a plus (I know, I know: my wisdom is earth-shattering.), but what of additional measures toward protecting against the deck's purported banes (Mox Monkey and Rods of Artifice Impotence?)?  Could drifting toward a heavier red build (Possibly only using blue for the power.) protect against potential Blood Moon screw as well?  *Shrug*

[jpmeyer]

Blood Moon isn't exactly a threat, but it's not too hard to fit in more red.  You might need to run fewer artifact lands, though in order to accomodate that.

[mtg_player_2004]

I liked your article, my favorite thing about it was that it was a short read with no useless introduction like most articles.  Honestly, how many "short" stories do we need to hear about some guy and his friend, why they call him Soda Pop, how your car sucks, and why McDonald's McGriddles are the best thing for breakfest since pancakes in order to understand a (usually) already developed deck or card you're pointing out to us?

[wizmentor]

Nice article, as always.

About ravager affinity,
I'd like some thoughts about wastelands and tangle wires.
I know these will wreck the mana base a little and slow the
deck down, but if it also slows down the opponent, it seems
worth it.  This deck can "out-permanent" most other
decks quickly.

Comments?


p.s. J.P. aside from an April's Fool Joke, where Oscar?  I miss his
articles (though the quality at the end wasn't the same as the
beginning).  He could write about something other than theory
articles and keeper - I would welcome it!

[jpmeyer]

Rakso has been really busy with his law school final exams.  That's why he hasn't written in a while.

The mana base can't support Wasteland at all, but Tangle Wire does at least sound interesting.  I can see that being pretty good at keeping you from getting like a Null Rod dropped on you, and at the same time it helps your strategy.

[Lucentspirit]

WOW! Raveger plays a whole lot better than I thought it would. Has anyone considered running gaea's cradle or crop rotaion in the deck. It just explodes when tolarian hits and crop rotation would give you a tutor for it.
    I'd really like to find a place for FoW. Tinker and memory jar seem like a good choices for the deck too. Although it's pretty tight as it is, I'm not sure what I would cut.

[theorigamist]

I proxied this up and goldfished a little and noticed, among other things, the following two issues:

1) Tolarian Academy occasionally produces more mana than is usable.  I sometimes jumped Skullclamps around just to use up mana.  But I am by no means advocating cutting Tolarian, as, like LucentSpirit said, it just makes the deck explode.

2) Broodstar seems like a natural inclusion as a 1-of.  If Ornithopter is good because of the evasion, Broodstar is as good, but a million times bigger.

3) I also agree with Lucentspirit that Tinker and Jar would be perfect for this deck.

[jpmeyer]

I tried Tinker/Jar, but the problem was that Jar was uncastable without Tinker.  I actually cut them for 2 Thoughtcast.

Broodstar isn't good because it and Ravager do conflicting things and becuase UU is actually fairly difficult to pull off anytime early.  Broodstar is like Ravager except that it costs 10 and not 2 and doesn't trigger Disciple of the Vault.

[Misemaster]

Jp you mentioned cards like genrsis chamber at the end of your article. Have you gotten a chance to do any testing with it? I cut a thoughtcast, a worker and a ornithopter for 3 genesis chamber and it seems to be working well.  

It has allowed me to get around null rod on occasions by generating enough tokens to make ravager huge before coming down or by just attacking with 1/1 dudes and frogmites and myr enforcer. Another benefit was the ease of casting enforcers with it making each creature -2 to their casting cost.

Also with a academy or a lot of artifact mana with a skullclamp it allows the deck to go into a combo like mode where after one attack phase if you have a disciple out there dead. It also allows you to clamp them for cards and keep your frogmites and ornithopters around. I am not sure if I cut the right things for them but I do think they deserve a spot in the deck.

[Didor]

After some testing, it seems to me that this deck needs a strong sideboard in order to fight both those few decks using null rod and those using welders ( wich by the way are also sporting groilla shaman, another threat for the ravager affinity player).
I've tried some artifact distruction to take care of the rods, and fire/ice to take care of shaman/welders; siding welders might also be something to take into account.
So far, what would you all suggest to improve this deck's sideboard ?

[yodoblec]

Annual could be used as an answer to damping matrix or null rod.

[Didor]

Maybe, but this is basically an aggro deck, so having to keep one card in hand and one blue open doesn't really fit the theme... I'd rather side in some artifact removal.

[yodoblec]

Maybe Goblin Vandal since it can get around Damping Matrix and doesn't cost 5 mana to get rid of a null rod like a mox monkey.

[jpmeyer]

...or just stop being cute and run Overload/Oxidize

[Didor]

I though about oxidize, but the green mana needed seemed hard to find; it would have required cutting red, wich is the main color of my sideboard ( welder, REBs...).
On the other hand, overload seems just fine, I'm going to test it, thank you jpmeyer.

[MuzzonoAmi]

What this deck really begs for is one more cheap draw 7. I always find myself wishing that my draw was more flexible than it is, since after turn 2 when you dump your hand, you're in topdeck mode untiul you get a tutor that you may or may not be able to cast.

[nickvos]

this may be too much of a proactive solution to null rod/damping matrix, but:  


      Latulla' Orders        1R                              

      Enchant Creature                                                        Prophecy
 
       You may play Latulla’s Orders any time you could play an instant.

       Whenever enchanted creature deals combat damage to defending
       player, you may have it destroy target artifact that player controls.
 



if anybody starts using this, it could become the first tournament-worthy card from prophecy! (chimeric idol is NOT tourny-worthy)

[Jacob Orlove]

Ugh. This should have been closed when it was first necro'd.