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Author Topic: Type 4 Stack Lists and Resources  (Read 65246 times)
VGB
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« on: November 19, 2004, 02:15:52 pm »

I've got more than a passing interest in T4, and would like to build a stack.

So far the only concrete list I have is this one featured on Wizards courtesy of Smmenen.

What I would like is:

1) People to list or link stacks they play and find workable.
2) Cards unique to T4 that help things along, and
3) List cards that are borderline unplayable, or flat out too disgusting (barring the typical X spells and abilities, of course).

If there is already some uber-T4 resource and this is a severe case of hia (headinass) on my part, well, 'scuse me.
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Nibble
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« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2004, 04:42:14 pm »

I don't feel like typing up our whole stack (though I might at some point, to see what we might add), but I can give you a few notables from it. Well, notable meaning interesting ones I don't remember seeing in the article or discussed somewhere.

Volrath's Stronghold (sooo good)
Mind's Eye (about as broken as Whispers)
Fevered Convulsions
Crosis, the Purger (possibly, he's borderline not-too-useful)
Tsabo's Decree (and we pretend the Legend creature type still exists)
Hymn of Rebirth
Lightning Greaves
Rain of Rust
Tidal Kraken (and we were also considering Thorn Elemental and Rhox)
Legacy Weapon
Ashen Powder
Child of Gaea
Reya Dawnbringer
Winds of Rath

I think 5D came out after the article, so just for reference, here are the major ones we added from it:
Bringer of the White Dawn
Bringer of the Blue Dawn
Bringer of the Black Dawn
Beacon of Immortality
Beacon of Unrest

I also don't know what everyone else runs for graveyard control, but we've got Coffin Purge, Cremate, and Ebony Charm. Side effect of this is, Charm becomes one of the favored ways to kill people. Razz

As for stuff that's completely broken, we don't run any library stackers (Flash of Insight, and that enchantment I can't remember right now). Legacy Weapon feels borderline to me, but it hasn't been too terrible. Mind's Eye is pretty sick, but usually makes the controller a big target, so it's alright. We haven't added CoK stuff yet, so I can't comment on Graverobber or black Myojin. Volrath's Stronghold may seem pretty weak, but it's proven to be a major nuisance on more than one occasion. (play Quanar, oh it's countered?, upkeep Stronghold, draw Quanar, play Quanar, oh it got killed?, upkeep Stronghold, draw Quanar, play Quanar...)  It's still worse than Genesis, I guess, but sometimes it's actually harder to remove the Stronghold.

Oh yeah, and we recently added Chimeric Coils. Yes, it's an X effect, but hey, it's essentially like Door - it takes a turn before it can do anything, and it can kill at most one person without some form of recursion. It's actually fairer, in a sense, because it can be blocked (and doesn't trample), can be hit by all artifact removal AND all creature removal, and the removal can be a lot nastier if you go crazy with the X (Backlash, Agonizing Demise, Spinal Embrace, Grab the Reins...)
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« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2004, 04:55:10 pm »

Here's the last list I typed up for the T4 group. It's a few months out of date, and I forgot a few cards. But it should be good enough to feel for what I play.




// Lands
    1  Diamond Valley
    1  Kor Haven
    1  Maze of Ith
    1  Winding Canyons
    1  Shivan Gorge
    1  Arena
    1  Volrath's Stronghold
    1  Karakas
    1  Treetop Village
    1  Nantuko Monastery

// Creatures
    1  Mischievous Quanar
    1  Chromeshell Crab
    1  Voidmage Prodigy
    1  Voidmage Apprentice
    1  Rainbow Efreet
    1  Primoc Escapee
    1  Morphling
    1  Bringer of the Blue Dawn
    1  Aven Fateshaper
    1  Dominating Licid
    1  Ertai, Wizard Adept
    1  Cognivore
    1  Stormscape Battlemage
    1  Quicksilver Dragon
    1  Riptide Shapeshifter
    1  Mist Dragon
    1  Palinchron
    1  Willbender
    1  Hoverguard Sweepers
    1  Sutured Ghoul
    1  Chainer, Dementia Master
    1  Abyssal Horror
    1  Spirit of the Night
    1  Bane of the Living
    1  Smokespew Invoker
    1  Havoc Demon
    1  Nightscape Battlemage
    1  Necrosavant
    1  Avatar of Woe
    1  Laquatus's Champion
    1  Faceless Butcher
    1  Scion of Darkness
    1 [UG] Infernal Spawn of Evil
    1  Volrath the Fallen
    1  Skinthinner
    1  Desolation Angel
    1  Bringer of the Black Dawn
    1  Nekrataal
    1  Pit Spawn
    1  Hypnox
    1  Bone Shredder
    1  Reiver Demon
    1  Ancestor's Chosen
    1  Academy Rector
    1  Karmic Guide
    1  Crowd Favorites
    1  Jareth, Leonine Titan
    1  Radiant's Dragoons
    1  Akroma, Angel of Wrath
    1  Eternal Dragon
    1  Bringer of the White Dawn
    1  Glarecaster
    1  Reya Dawnbringer
    1  Silver Seraph
    1  False Prophet
    1  Furnace Dragon
    1  Imperial Hellkite
    1  Crater Hellion
    1  Keldon Champion
    1  Shivan Phoenix
    1  Macetail Hystrodon
    1  Ashen Firebeast
    1  Rorix Bladewing
    1  Worldgorger Dragon
    1  Thunderscape Battlemage
    1  Rockshard Elemental
    1  Kamahl, Pit Fighter
    1  Thundermare
    1  Butcher Orgg
    1  Desolation Giant
    1  Flowstone Overseer
    1  Shard Phoenix
    1  Gorilla Shaman (1)
    1  Ancient Hydra
    1  Krosan Cloudscraper
    1  Plated Slagwurm
    1  Penumbra Wurm
    1  Bringer of the Green Dawn
    1  Gurzigost
    1  Root Elemental
    1  Thicket Elemental
    1  Deranged Hermit
    1  Nantuko Vigilante
    1  Living Hive
    1  Krosan Tusker
    1  Gigapede
    1  Thornscape Battlemage
    1  Thorn Elemental
    1  Silvos, Rogue Elemental
    1  Symbiotic Wurm
    1  Genesis
    1  Child of Gaea
    1  Verdant Force
    1  Gamekeeper
    1 [UG] Timmy, Power Gamer
    1  Spike Weaver
    1  Spiritmonger
    1  Nicol Bolas
    1  Pyre Zombie
    1  Phantom Nishoba
    1  Mystic Snake
    1  Fungal Shambler
    1  Vampiric Dragon
    1  Rith, the Awakener
    1  Dromar, the Banisher
    1  Tsabo Tavoc
    1  Pentavus
    1  Bosh, Iron Golem
    1  Duplicant
    1  Memnarch
    1  Platinum Angel
    1  Darksteel Colossus
    1  Suncrusher
    1  Colossus of Sardia
    1  Etched Oracle
    1  Masticore

// Spells
    1  Foil
    1  Beacon of Tomorrows
    1  Deflection
    1 [UG] Common Courtesy
    1  Confiscate
    1  Inspiration
    1  Binding Grasp
    1  Fact or Fiction
    1  Persuasion
    1  Ancestral Recall
    1  Stifle
    1  Misdirection
    1  Opportunity
    1  Browse
    1  Dreams of the Dead
    1  Control Magic
    1  Counterspell
    1  Time Stretch
    1  Ertai's Meddling
    1  Veiled Sentry
    1  Dispersing Orb
    1  Future Sight
    1  Capsize
    1  Exclude
    1  Dismiss
    1  Assert Authority
    1  Spell Blast
    1  Acquire
    1  Whispers of the Muse
    1  Vex
    1  Blatant Thievery
    1  Flash of Insight
    1  Spelljack
    1  Treachery
    1  Thwart
    1  Flood
    1  Arcane Denial (1)
    1  Discombobulate
    1  Last Word
    1  Evacuation
    1  Forbid
    1  Fervent Denial
    1  Force of Will
    1  Decree of Silence
    1  Interdict
    1  Rewind
    1  Curfew
    1  Intuition
    1  Choking Tethers
    1  Dissipate
    1  Rescind
    1  Desertion
    1  Dominate
    1  Dregs of Sorrow
    1  Tainted Pact
    1  Yawgmoth's Agenda
    1  Yawgmoth's Bargain
    1  Slaughter
    1  Skeletal Scrying
    1  Reaping the Graves
    1  Plague Wind
    1  Dawn of the Dead
    1  Dark Banishing
    1  Cruel Revival
    1  Headstone
    1  Barter in Blood
    1  Betrayal of Flesh
    1  Decree of Pain
    1  Fevered Convulsions
    1  Diabolic Edict
    1  Promise of Power
    1  Twilight's Call
    1  Death Pulse
    1  Annihilate
    1  Feast or Famine (1)
    1  Agonizing Demise
    1  Murderous Spoils
    1  Cremate
    1  Expunge
    1  Corpse Dance
    1  Oversold Cemetery
    1  Chastise
    1  Soul Nova
    1  Winds of Rath
    1  Honorable Passage
    1  Dismantling Blow
    1  Radiant's Judgment
    1  Oblation
    1  Balance
    1  Rout
    1  Catastrophe
    1  Renewed Faith
    1  Akroma's Blessing
    1  Soulscour
    1  Akroma's Vengeance
    1  Second Thoughts
    1  Afterlife
    1  Balancing Act
    1  Beacon of Immortality
    1  Congregate
    1  Reprisal (1)
    1  Orim's Thunder
    1  Miraculous Recovery
    1  Altar's Light
    1  Ancestral Tribute
    1  Wipe Clean
    1  Exile
    1  Ray of Distortion
    1  Wrath of God
    1  Turn the Tables
    1  Humility
    1  Worship
    1  Pulse of the Forge
    1  Insurrection
    1  Slice and Dice
    1  Rain of Rust
    1  Dwarven Catapult
    1  Mogg Infestation
    1  Rock Slide
    1  Grab the Reins
    1  Savage Beating
    1  Violent Eruption
    1  Obliterate
    1  Ember Shot
    1  Kaboom!
    1  Flowstone Slide
    1  Starstorm
    1  Jokulhaups
    1  Heat Ray
    1  Lightning Blast
    1  Misguided Rage
    1  Solar Blast
    1  Barbed Lightning
    1  Beacon of Destruction
    1  Fissure
    1  Scrap
    1  Decree of Annihilation
    1  Hunting Pack
    1  Crush of Wurms
    1  Bearscape
    1  Desert Twister
    1  Grizzly Fate
    1  All Suns' Dawn
    1  Reclaim
    1  Repopulate
    1  One Dozen Eyes
    1  Beast Attack
    1  Tornado
    1  Tooth and Nail
    1  Holistic Wisdom
    1  Night Soil (2)
    1  Moment of Silence
    1  Survival of the Fittest
    1  Decree of Savagery
    1  Saproling Burst
    1  Bind
    1  Void
    1  Reflect Damage
    1  Spite/Malice
    1  Yavimaya's Embrace
    1  Recoil
    1  Crosis's Charm
    1  Order/Chaos
    1  Terminate
    1  Fires of Yavimaya
    1  Captain's Maneuver
    1  Suffocating Blast
    1  Prophetic Bolt
    1  Spinal Embrace
    1  Eladamri's Call
    1  Treva's Charm
    1  Cauldron Dance
    1  Reviving Vapors
    1  Dromar's Charm
    1  Pernicious Deed
    1  Absorb
    1  Undermine
    1  Tower of Champions
    1  Tower of Fortunes
    1  Tower of Eons
    1  Soul Foundry
    1  Aladdin's Ring
    1  Aladdin's Lamp
    1  Planar Portal
    1  Shield of Kaldra
    1  Sword of Kaldra
    1  Sword of Light and Shadow
    1  Sword of Fire and Ice
    1  Legacy Weapon
    1  Smokestack
    1  Door to Nothingness
    1  Loxodon Warhammer
    1  Phyrexian Grimoire
    1  Panacea
    1  Vedalken Orrery
    1  Vedalken Shackles
    1  Illusionary Mask
    1  Citanul Flute
    1  Scroll Rack
    1  Nevinyrral's Disk
    1  Mind's Eye
    1  Grinning Totem
    1  Mindslaver
    1  Xanthic Statue
    1  Jade Statue
    1  Scythe of the Wretched
    1  Oblivion Stone
    1  Thought Prison
    1  Altar of Shadows
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VGB
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« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2004, 05:52:44 pm »

Thanks, guys  Very Happy

Quote from: Nibble
As for stuff that's completely broken, we don't run any library stackers (Flash of Insight, and that enchantment I can't remember right now). Legacy Weapon feels borderline to me, but it hasn't been too terrible. Mind's Eye is pretty sick, but usually makes the controller a big target, so it's alright. We haven't added CoK stuff yet, so I can't comment on Graverobber or black Myojin. Volrath's Stronghold may seem pretty weak, but it's proven to be a major nuisance on more than one occasion. (play Quanar, oh it's countered?, upkeep Stronghold, draw Quanar, play Quanar, oh it got killed?, upkeep Stronghold, draw Quanar, play Quanar...)  It's still worse than Genesis, I guess, but sometimes it's actually harder to remove the Stronghold.


That blue enchantment would be Soothsaying - and I agree, it and Flash of Insight are pretty disgusting - at least Aladdin's Lamp takes a turn to set up.

Nezumi Graverobber requires crap in the graveyard, but the fact that it's a walking Tormod's Crypt for all players that turns into a Chainer seems pretty brutal - but since it doesn't actually win the game on the spot it seems like a reasonable card in theory, and not necessarily any worse than, say, Glarecaster.

I guess it speaks for the power of cantrips in T4, since that one stack has Headstone in it; that almost made me laugh.  Wink

Quote from: Jacob_Orlove

<j_orlove> there is actually a good way to play 2 person T4
<j_orlove> shuffle up the stack some
<j_orlove> each grab some chunk
<j_orlove> then start playing
<j_orlove> the games go really fast with just 2 people
<j_orlove> and you can mix up the cards after each game
<j_orlove> it works with >2 people too
<j_orlove> it's T4 when you're in a hurry
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« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2004, 10:44:50 pm »

Okay people, now that there's a list typed up, just copy it into notepad and edit it to reflect what you play.

As an aside: burn and lifegain effects are pretty good if the numbers are big enough. The white and red beacons, in particular, are very strong.

Graverobber is much, much stronger than glarecaster. He's a late game card, but he'll *just win* almost all the time.
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« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2004, 11:55:25 pm »

I also really like Mindslicer - nice political critter in multiplayer, without being broken at all.
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« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2004, 02:38:36 pm »

Here's a link to my current type 4 pool (286 cards):

http://www.moonkhan.org/mtg/current_type4.txt

I should finish the stack sometime soon (missing Forcefield, Illusionary Mask, Timmy, Johnny, and some other rares). All in all the power level feels high. We don't use firebreather's but we're using Myojin of Night's Reach and Cabal Conditioning.

Aside from the usual suspects here are some cards we consider powerful in my play group:

Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang is hot.

Armistice is a great political enchantment. It's one of my personal favorites.

Reweave is powerful. It turns cool enchantments like Dawn of the Dead into cooler enchantments like Holistic Wisdom! It's also a great way to resolve game_winning_critter when you arrange your library with Flash of Insight, Aladdin's Lamp, Soothsaying, etc. It can also remove indestructibles.

With the current wave of indestructibles (myojins, DSC, Konda) Innocent Blood and Second Thoughts have proven very useful. I consider Second Thoughts a very high pick overall.

Re: Headstone - great call! It's going in as soon as I find one ... Graveyard removal is key. I'm looking for other cantrips like that because I don't want to put in Withered Wretch.

Cards that aren't making the grade:
Crater Hellion - morph-killer but that's about it
Disturbed Burial - Sorcery, too slow
Godo, Bandit Warlord - cool with Vigilance creatures but the only Equipment we use is Tatsumasa
Jugan, the Rising Star - being a cool-looking dragon isn't enough to make it into a type 4 pool
Kodama of the North Tree - sadly he hasn't proven to be strong enough to waste a main phase casting
Kuro, Pitlord - why when Smokespew does more for less?
Living Death - really this and Twilight's Call are just a way to punish Phage and it takes a lot of luck to set up. Still a fun card.
Mindblaze - when I read Kaboom! I decided that a main phase is better spent blasting everyone instead of one person for 8.
Night Dealings - I saw someone on TMD with this and thought I'd try it. No one liked it.
Reverse the Sands - ok, ok, so I thought it might be fun!

Thanks for the great card ideas everyone!

--Paul
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Kowal
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« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2004, 09:47:40 pm »

I'm missing some juicy stuff, but I've never actually put effort in to finding the individual cards, I just put it together along the way.

Kowal's Type Four Stack


---Random Broken---
"Ach, Hans, Run!"
Ashnod's Coupon
Beacon of Tomorrows
Blatant Thievery
Boseiju, Who Shelters All
Capsize
Chaos Orb
Door to Nothingness
Illusionary Mask
Mindslaver
Savage Beating
Soul Foundry
Tangle Wire
Timmy, Power Gamer
Vedalken Orrery
Winding Canyons
Zur's Weirding

---Fatties---
Arcades Sabboth
Arcbound Overseer
Armored Guardian
Bosh, Iron Golem
Bringer of the Black Dawn
Bringer of the Blue Dawn
Bringer of the Red Dawn
Bringer of the White Dawn
Chromium
Crowd Favorites
Crush of Wurms
Darksteel Colossus
Draco
Elephant Ambush
Eron the Relentless
Eternal Dragon
Genesis
Hypnox
Konda, Lord of Eiganjo
Mageta the Lion
Memnarch
Mist Dragon
Morphling
Myojin of Cleansing Fire
Myojin of Infinite Rage
Myojin of Life's Web
Myojin of Night's Reach
Nicol Bolas
Palladia-Mors
Phage the Untouchable
Phantom Nishoba
Plated Slagwurm
Reiver Demon
Rorix Bladewing
Symbiotic Wurm
Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang
Volrath's Shapeshifter
Xanthic Statue
Yosei, the Morning Star

---Utility Creatures---
Academy Rector
Anger
Arcanis the Omnipotent
Aven Fateshaper
Callous Oppressor
Chainer, Dementia Master
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Eternal Witness
Faceless Butcher
Gigapede
Gilded Drake
Glarecaster
Glory
Gorilla Shaman
Mystic Snake
Nantuko Vigilante
Nezumi Graverobber
Ouphe Vandals
Riptide Shapeshifter
Siege-Gang Commander
Sunscape Battlemage
Thunderscape Battlemage
Voidmage Apprentice
Voidmage Prodigy
Willbender

---Masticores---
Flowstone Overseer
Masticore
Plaguebearer
Planeswalker's Scorn
Smokespew Invoker
Vampiric Dragon

---Counters---
Arcane Denial
Assert Authority
Bind
Counterspell
Decree of Silence
Deflection
Desertion
Dismiss
Dissipate
Dromar's Charm
Ertai's Meddling
Exclude
Fervent Denial
Foil
Fold into Aether
Forbid
Fork
Interdict
Misdirection
Null Brooch
Shunt
Spell Blast
Spelljack
Spite/Malice
Squelch
Stifle
Suffocating Blast
Thwart
Time Stop
Undermine
Vex

---Recursion---
All Suns' Dawn
Beacon of Unrest
Cauldron Dance
Corpse Dance
Holistic Wisdom
Miraculous Recovery
Necromancy
Recurring Nightmare
Twilight's Call
Yawgmoth's Agenda

---Control Magics---
Binding Grasp
Confiscate
Control Magic
Dominate
Insurrection
Spinal Embrace
Treachery
Yavimaya's Embrace

---Removal---
Agonizing Demise
Altar's Light
Annihilate
Artifact Mutation
Betrayal of Flesh
Chainer's Edict
Chastise
Crooked Scales
Dark Banishing
Dismantling Blow
Dregs of Sorrow
Duplicant
Exile
Grab the Reins
Kiku, Night's Flower
Orim's Thunder
Ray of Distortion
Second Thoughts
Shattering Pulse
Slaughter
Swords to Plowshares
Tornado
Tsabo's Decree
Vindicate
Wing Shards

---Wraths---
Akroma's Vengeance
Balance
Barter in Blood
Decree of Annihilation
Decree of Pain
Devastation
Flowstone Slide
Nevinyrral's Disk
Obliterate
Pernicious Deed
Rout
Solar Tide
Upheaval
World-Bottling Kit

---Tutor/Draw---
Acquire
Aladdin's Lamp
Bribery
Citanul Flute
Compulsion
Fact or Fiction
Flash of Insight
Future Sight
Gifts Ungiven
Grinning Totem
Mind's Eye
Opportunity
Planar Portal
Promise of Power
Reviving Vapors
Scroll Rack
Scrying Glass
Skeletal Scrying
Skyship Weatherlight
Survival of the Fittest
Temporal Cascade
Thought Dissector
Tooth and Nail
Tower of Fortunes
Trade Secrets
Whispers of the Muse

---Life Gain/Damage Prevention---
Captain's Maneuver
Maze of Ith
Mirror Mirror
Mirror Universe
Panacea
Pentagram of the Ages
Protective Sphere
Pulse of the Fields
Reflect Damage
Reverse Damage
Reverse the Sands
Tower of Eons

---Grave Hate---
Cremate
Mourner's Shield
Night Soil

---Direct Damage---
Aladdin's Ring
Inferno
Letter Bomb
Mindblaze
Pulse of the Forge
Searing Wind
Soulblast
Urza's Rage


Also, this thread seems like a commonly needed enough reference to be stickied.  So I did that.
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VGB
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« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2004, 12:25:00 pm »

Quote from: VGB

2) Cards unique to T4 that help things along...


Just in case this point was unclear, here's the gist - sometimes people make unique cards for T4, like this:

Library of the Synod
Legendary Land
{T}: add {1} to your mana pool.  This mana may be used to play an additional spell this turn.

If your T4 playgroup has some custom cards that add some great flavor your games, feel free to post them.
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« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2004, 01:18:31 pm »

Well, I finally sat down and did it, so here's the Brass Man's stack. For those of you that are unaware, we use cards like Firebreathers and Staff of Domination to turbo-power the list. Note that the list is everchanging, and cards are always being taken out for decks, etc., and forgotten to be put back in. Also, if we have an uneven number of cards, we find a few fillers to even it out, hence some of the more questionable cards. Finally, we play with the rule that any alternate casting cost paid doesn't count as your spell for the turn, which explains the Fist of Suns and Dream Halls.

---Land---
Kor Haven
Winding Canyons
Volrath’s Stronghold
Boseiju, Who Shelters All

---Enchantments---
Aggravated Assault
Holistic Wisdom
Planeswalker’s Mischief
Oath of Lim-Dul
Dream Halls
“Ach! Hans, Run!”
Future Sight
Pernicious Deed
Yawgmoth’s Bargain
Dragon’s Breath
Necromancy
Yet Another AEther Vortex
Yawgmoth’s Agenda
Delaying Shield

---Instants & Sorceries---
REMOVAL
Crosis’s Charm
Treva’s Charm
Agonizing Demise
Decree of Annihilation
Spinal Embrace
Grab the Reins
Tsabo’s Decree
Who/What/When/Where/Why
Rain of Rust
Obliterate
Ray of Distortion
Betrayal of Flesh
Recoil
Starstorm
Rout
Swords to Plowshares
Capsize
Rare-B-Gone
Void
Reweave
Orim’s Thunder
Altar’s Light
Malice

COUNTERSPELLS
Spite
Dromar’s Charm
Undermine
Absorb
Discombobulate
Rewind
Hinder
Last Word
Assert Authority
Ertai’s Meddling
Dissipate
Fervent Denial
Decree of Silence
Thwart
Spelljack
Desertion
Time Stop
Stifle
Interdict
Squelch
Bind
Shunt
Deflection
Fork

OTHER
Time Stretch
Decree of Savagery
Biorhythm
Tooth and Nail
Darigaaz’s Charm
Cauldron Dance
Corpse Dance
Beacon of Unrest
Twilight’s Call
Dominate
Reins of Power
Blatant Thievery
Acquire
Bribery
Flash of Insight
All Suns’ Dawn
Gifts Ungiven
Fact or Fiction
Whispers of the Muse
Opportunity
Captain’s Maneuver
Prophetic Bolt
Blast from the Past
Inferno
Searing Wind
Urza’s Rage

---Artifacts---
Aladdin’s Ring
Bosium Strip
Door to Nothingness
Fist of Suns
Gleemax
Grinning Totem
Legacy Weapon
Letter Bomb
Mind’s Eye
Mindslaver
Mirari
Null Brooch
Oblivion Stone
Panacea
Planar Portal
Predator, Flagship
Quicksilver Amulet
Reito Lantern
Soul Foundry
Shield of the Ages
Staff of Domination (Artist Proof)
Tatsumasa, the Dragon’s Fang
Thought Dissector
Tower of Fortunes
Vedalken Orrery

---Creatures---

UTILITY
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Armored Guardian
Glory
Genesis
Anger
Filth
Voidmage Prodigy
Mystic Snake
Willbender
Voidmage Apprentice
Ertai, Wizard Adept
Nezumi Graverobber/Nighteyes the Desecrator
Chainer, Dementia Master
Crowd Favorites
Volrath’s Shapeshifter
Vesuvan Doppelganger
Quicksilver Elemental
Riptide Shapeshifter
Bringer of the Blue Dawn
Bringer of the White Dawn
Bringer of the Black Dawn
Richard Garfield, Ph.D.
Timmy, Power Gamer
Mischievous Quanar
Eternal Witness
Consumptive Goo
Withered Wretch
Memnarch
Arcanis, the Omnipotent
Infernal Denizen
Glarecaster

BIG GUYS
Avarax
Cromat
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
Kamahl, Pit Fighter
Myojin of Night’s Reach
Myojin of Life’s Web
Bosh, Iron Golem
Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Kokusho, the Evening Star
Nicol Bolas
Mist Dragon
Vampiric Dragon
Flowstone Overseer
Bloodshot Cyclops
Bloodfire Colossus
Darksteel Colossus
Morphling
Greater Morphling
Bringer of the Red Dawn
Hypnox
Crush of Wurms
Uktabi Kong

I had some trouble catergorizing some cards, so if a card you're looking for isn't in one section, try another.
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« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2004, 04:05:23 pm »

Ok, I was just talking to Steve and made him cry, so I gotta let people in on a few things I've been trying out:

1) KIKI FUCKIN JIKI!!!:  Steve didn't know what this guy did, so I let him in on it: Haste, make a token of a non-legendary guy you control and the token has haste and is sacrificed at eot.

Copy: Riptide Shapeshifter, Gangbang Commander, Eternal Witness, Mystic Snake, Voidmage Prodigy, Symbiotic Wurm, Staunch Defenders/Angel of Mercy, Boner Shredder, etc.  He's also pretty good to basically give your guys Vigilance by swinging with the copy and blocking with the real one or vice versa.

2) Filth:  I know other people play with Wonder/Anger whatev, but Filth makes all your guys unblockable which is pretty hot.

3) Vernal Equinox:  It's a Vedalken Orrey for everyone but only works with Enchantments and men.  It's playable but I don't know if it's worth taking up a turn casting.

4) Inspiration/Gush(no ACC):  They're just simple +1 card advantage spells.

5) All of the CoK Daggrons and Miyojins: I know the Green daggron and blue miyojin suck, but it's kind of cool to have the complte cycle.

Someone suggested Headstone and I want one so bad!
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« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2004, 03:03:26 pm »

Here  is a list of all currently legal Vintage cards ranked according to their T4 playability.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2005, 10:06:52 am by VGB » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2005, 07:48:09 pm »

How did I miss this thread.  Someone should sticky it.
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« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2005, 08:23:10 pm »

Quote from: VGB

Mist Dragon - 2


That's some serious analysis VGB - thanks!  I did see a couple typos like the one I pointed out - you may want to fix that.
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« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2005, 08:27:28 pm »

WTF.  Mist Dragon is like a top 20 pick in my deck.  It's ridic and impossible to kill.
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« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2005, 08:41:17 pm »

The ShortBus Type 4 Stack (last revised 10 January 2005):

Beta
Clone
Unlimited
Chaos Orb
Berserk
Illusionary Mask
Revised
Reverse Damage
4th Edition
Fissure
Balance
Nevinyrral's Disk
Wrath of God
Aladdin's Lamp
7th Edition
Dregs of Sorrow
Aladdin's Ring
8th Edition
Inferno
Legends
Karakas
Antiquities
Colossus of Sardia
The Dark
Maze of Ith
Fallen Empires
Dwarven Catapult
Night Soil
Ice Age
Swords to Plowshares
Jokulhaups
Alliances
Reprisal
Gorilla Shaman
Lim-Dul's Vault
Exile
Mirage
Reflect Damage
Kaervek's Purge
Spirit of the Night
Mist Dragon
Dissipate
Savage Twister
Visions
Impulse
Retribution of the Meek
Zhalfirin Crusader
Rainbow Efreet
Vampiric Tutor
Weatherlight
Tranquil Grove
Xanthic Statue
Tempest
Intuition
Verdant Force
Scroll Rack
Capsize
Whispers of the Muse
Interdict
Dismiss
Diabolic Edict
Stronghold
Volrath's Shapeshifter
Rebound
Volrath's Stronghold
Exodus
Survival of the Fittest
Plaguebearer
Forbid
Urza's Saga
Citanul Flute
Dark Hatchling
Morphling
Confiscate
Child of Gaea
Serra Avatar
Urza's Legacy
Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
Opportunity
Urza's Destiny
Masticore
Quash
Yavimaya Hollow
Mercadian Masques
Panacea
Misdirection
Ballista Squad
Blood Oath
Bribery
Ivory Mask
Soothsaying
Nemesis
Predator, Flagship
Kor Haven
Volrath the Fallen
Flowstone Overseer
Dominate
Prophecy
Plague Wind
Mirror Strike
Avatar of Woe
Searing Wind
Invasion
Restock
Planar Portal
Agonizing Demise
Tsabo's Decree
Backlash
Undermine
Spite/Malice
Dromar, the Banisher
Cauldron Dance
Rith, the Awakener
Twilight's Call
Reya Dawnbringer
Tsabo Tavoc
Captain Sisay
Reviving Vapors
Urza's Rage
Exclude
Thicket Elemental
Artifact Mutation
Dismantling Blow
Annihilate
Cremate
Crosis, the Purger
Darigaaz, the Igniter
Obliterate
Bind
Armored Guardian
Rout
Treva, the Renewer
Spinal Embrace
Aura Mutation
Fact or Fiction
Yawgmoth's Agenda
Hanna, Ship's Navigator
Void
Protective Sphere
Planeshift
Confound
Treva's Charm
Mirrorwood Treefolk
Aura Blast
Dromar's Charm
Stormscape Battlemage
Thornscape Battlemage
Planewalker's Scorn
Eladamri's Call
Terminate
Draco
Sunscape Battlemage
Crosis's Charm
Apocalypse
Order/Chaos
Orim's Thunder
Wild Research
Phyrexian Gargantua
Bloodfire Colossus
Mystic Snake
Fungal Shambler
Captain's Maneuver
Pernicious Deed
Prophetic Bolt
Legacy Weapon
Desolation Giant
Penumbra Wurm
Odyssey
Hollistic Wisdom
Second Thoughts
Iridescent Angel
Kirtar's Wrath
Malevolent Awakening
Fervent Denial
Mindslicer
Kamahl, Pit Fighter
Bash to Bits
Time Stretch
Beast Attack
Ray of Distortion
Volley of Boulders
Balancing Act
Mirari
Tainted Pact
Torment
Chainer, Dementia Master
Radiate
Breakthrough
Hypnox
Plagiarize
Compulsion
Laquatus' Champion
Judgement
Glory
Spelljack
Ember Shot
Phantom Nishoba
Guiltfeeder
Flash of Insight
Chastise
Anger
Genesis
Crush of Wurms
Onslaught
Arcanis the Omnipotent
Cruel Revival
Rummaging Wizard
Oversold Cemetery
Crowd Favorites
Silklash Spider
Kaboom
Quicksilver Dragon
Akroma's Vengeance
Insurrection
Visara the Dreadful
Future Sight
Exalted Angel
Glarecaster
Blatant Thievery
Riptide Shapeshifter
Discombobulate
Symbiotic Wurm
Jareth, Leonine Titan
Silvos, Rogue Elemental
Rorix Bladewing
Legions
Smokespew Invoker
Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Phage the Untouchable
Withered Wretch
Nantuko Vigilante
Havoc Demon
Chromeshell Crab
Voidmage Apprentice
Bane of the Living
Scion of Darkness
Imperial Hellkite
Willbender
Scourge
Mischievious Quanar
Cabal Conditioning
Decree of Annihilation
Rush of Knowledge
Stifle
Wing Shards
Decree of Pain
Decree of Silence
Hunting Pack
Gilded Light
Mirrodin
Proteus Staff
Soul Nova
Plated Slagwurm
Living Hive
Assert Authority
Bosh, Iron Golem
Annul
Quicksilver Elemental
Platinum Angel
Tower of Eons
Barter in Blood
Lightning Greaves
Solar Tide
Mindslaver
Oblivion Stone
Duplicant
Promise of Power
Tower of Fortunes
Tooth and Nail
Reiver Demon
Mind's Eye
Altar's Light
Betrayal of Flesh
Pentavus
Grab the Reins
Soul Foundry
Darksteel
Thought Dissector
Soulscour
Last Word
Pulse of the Fields
Memnarch
Darksteel Colossus
Pristine Angel
Panoptic Mirror
Pulse of the Grid
Fifth Dawn
All Suns Dawn
Bringer of the Black Dawn
Beacon of Tomorrows
Beacon of Immortality
Vedalken Orrery
Suncrusher
Door to Nothingness
Eternal Witness
Acquire
Etched Oracle
Beacon of Unrest
Bringer of the White Dawn
Champions of Kamigawa
Soulblast
Myojin of Seeing Winds
Myojin of Life's Web
Squelch
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
The Unspeakable
Nezumi Graverobber
Time Stop
Rend Flesh
Reweave
Ryusei, the Falling Star
Konda, Lord of Eiganjo
Myojin of Infinite Rage
Reverse the Sands
Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang
Boseiju, Who Shelter's All
Gifts Ungiven
Hinder
Peer through Depths
Wear Away
Kokusho, the Evening Star
Kuro, Pitlord
Unglued
Timmy, Power Gamer
Goblin Tutor
Unhinged
Rare-B-Gone
Uktabi Kong
Yet Another Aether Vortex
AWOL
"Ach Hans, Run"
Gleemax
World-Bottling Kit
Blast from the Past
Richard Garfield, Ph.D.
Promo
Voidmage Apprentice
Disenchant
Chronicles
Arcades Sabboth
Nicol Bolas
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« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2005, 09:23:51 pm »

Quote from: Smmenen
WTF.  Mist Dragon is like a top 20 pick in my deck.  It's ridic and impossible to kill.


Now that I think about it some more, that is probably an undeserved low rating - but I will let you in on my analysis:

Evasion + a beefy creature makes for an automatic inclusion, as long as the drawback isn't too heinous (see Devouring Strossus, etc., for an example of a great creature with too terrible a drawback).  The beefier the creature the better the rating; 4/4 is at the bottom of the P/T rung considering the other flying untargetables such as Quicksilver Dragon (sorta), Morphling,  and Greater Morphling.

What made me detract from the overral score is the fact that phasing removes it from play, thus it isn't available as a blocker/attacker until your next turn - and there might be quite a few turns in the interim where an untargetable creature might have been strictly superior in the same scenario.  Any of the Masticores on the table render it useless as well.

The fact it is un-wrathable, though, is something I really didn't factor for, so I will revise my rating for it.  If I am wrong about any other cards, feel free to correct me either here or via PM.

Eventually I hope to make the list more user friendly with links, too, if anybody would ever get around to answering my BBcode questions :/
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« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2005, 04:58:49 pm »

Survival as a 3?  I think not.  You devote an entire draft strategy to Survival if you get it early in the draft and its never dead.  Worst case is you thaw all of your bad creatures out of your deck and you end up with your best creature in your hand.  That is some good.
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« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2005, 05:22:24 pm »

It certainly deserves better, but I gave it a low rating for a reason - functionally, it's like an Aladdin's Lamp for creatures only.  Its drawback is that it makes you wait an entire turn to reap it's benefits, since the only playable insta-creature in T4 is Mystic Snake (barring you have Quicksilver Amulet/Johnny in play).  Thus you get a huge bullseye on your forehead with no way to retaliate, unless you have some sort of combo in place.  It can also suck against graveyard removal.

It also has great synergy with animation effects such as Twilight's Call/Living Death/Patriarch's Bidding, and critters such as Undead Gladiator, though, so I will bump up the rating a couple of smidges.
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« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2005, 06:08:23 pm »

Quote from: VGB
Its drawback is that it makes you wait an entire turn to reap it's benefits

Glory. Also, Chainer or Graverobber. And Illusionary Mask. Survival is really good.

Mist Dragon is unkillable, save Mindslaver. That's amazingly good.
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« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2005, 06:17:20 pm »

My Type 4 Cube:

Core Sets:

Nevinyrral's Disk
Bloodshot Cyclops
Swords to Plowshares
Control Magic
Obliterate
Spell Blast
Temporal Adept
Gravedigger
Jayemdae Tome
Aladdin's Ring
Coercion
Serra Angel
Terror
Remove Soul
Balance
Inspiration

Ice Age/Alliances/Homelands:

Torture
Feast or Famine
Arcane Denial
Tornado
Stormbind
Gorilla Shaman
Exile
Reprisal
Pyrokinesis

Mirage/Visions/Weatherlight:

Ophidian
Ray of Command
Dark Banishing

Tempest/Stronghold/Exodus:

Spike Hatcher
Winds of Rath
Forbid
Desertion
Tortured Existence
Evacuation
Diabolic Edict

Urza's Block:

False Prophet
Radiant's Judgment
Palinchron
Karn, Silver Golem

Masques/Nemesis/Prophecy:

Foil
Mageta the Lion
Flowstone Slide
Counterspell
Forced March
Story Circle

Odyssey/Torment/Judgment:

Repel
Crush of Wurms
Second Thoughts
Cabal Surgeon
Fervent Denial
Mindslicer
Scrivener
Aboshan, Cephalid Emperor
Ember Shot
Ghastly Demise
Anarchist
Moment's Peace
Cease-Fire
Liquify
Cognivore
Testament of Faith
Cultural Exchange
Lieutenant Kirtar
Cephalid Constable

Invasion/Planeshift/Apocalypse:

Dismantling Blow
Confound
Metathran Aerostat (The Bomb!)
Reckless Spite
Restock
Hanna, Ship's Navigator
Reviving Vapors
Spite/Malice
Armored Guardian
Standard Bearer
Exclude
Jilt
Prophetic Bolt
Nightscape Battlemage
Phyrexian Gargantua
Pernicious Deed
Desolation Giant
Kavu Climber
Terminate
Suffocating Blast
Hobble
Aura Blast
Planeswalker's Scorn
Gaea's Herald
Bog Down
Dromar's Charm
Coalition Honor Guard
Manacles of Decay
Orim's Touch
Penumbra Wurm
Thicket Elemental
Probe
Void
Spinal Embrace

Onslaught/Legions/Scourge:

Mischievous Quanar
Voidmage Apprentice
Havoc Demon
Reaping the Graves
Insurrection
Hundroog (Hundroooooooooooooooog! Kind of an inside joke)
Blatant Thievery
Wing Shards
Root Elemental
Decree of Annhilation (Topdeck mode!)
Essence Fracture
Break Asunder
Starstorm
Future Sight
Willbender
Dispersing Orb
Crowd Favorites
Imperial hellkite
Cruel Revival
Dispersal Shield
Smokespew Invoker
Chromeshell Crab
Bane of the Living
Aphetto Exterminator
Skinthinner
Grip of Chaos
Rush of Knowledge
Echo Tracer
Decree of Painn
Decree of Silence
Accelerated Mutation
Clone
Gigapede
Mythic Proportions (Winds of Rath combo!)
Swat
Dirge of Dread
Oblation

Mirrodin/Darksteel/Fifth Dawn

Furnace Dragon
Door to Nothingness
Turn the Tables
Betrayal of Flesh
Soul Foundry
Quicksilver Elemental
Lightning Greaves
Promise of Power
Viridian Shaman
Woebearer
tower of Fortunes
Beacon of Destruction
Purge
Soul Nova
Assert Authority
Thought Prison (Duress ++)
Vedalken Orrery
Darksteel Gargoyle
Soulscour
Fatespinner
Pentabus
Mind's Eye
Beacon of Tomorrows
One Dozen Eyes
Temporal Cascade (Like Mind Twist, but different.)
Lumengrid Augur
Luminous Angel
Silent Arbiter
Tower of Eons
Altar of Shadows
Thought Courier
Altar's Light
Grab the Reins
Reiver Demon
Vex
Creeping Mold
Cosmic Larva (a.k.a. THE BALLOOOOON!)
Living Hive
Arc-Slogger
Crystal Shard
Detonate
Barter in Blood

Champions of Kamigawa:

Honden of Infinite Rage
Seizan, Perverter of Truth
Masako the Humorless
Soulblast
Pull Under
Nezumi Graverobber
Hinder
Squelch
Ryusei, the Falling Star
Petals of Insight
Reweave
Myojin of Life's Web
Otherworldly Journey
Consuming Vortex
Rend Flesh
Glacial Ray
Kiku, Night's Flower
Kodama of the North Tree
Hold the Line
Kuro, Pitlord
Mindblaze
Konda, Lord of Eiganjo
Honden of Life's Web
Reciprocate
Myojin of Seeing Winds
Blind with Anger
Pain Kami
Blood Rites
Mystic Restraints
Honden of Cleansing Fire
Honden of Seeing Winds
The Unspeakable
Befoul
Reverse the Sands
Thoughtbind
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« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2005, 12:39:40 am »

Quote from: Triple_S
Survival as a 3?  I think not.  You devote an entire draft strategy to Survival if you get it early in the draft and its never dead.  Worst case is you thaw all of your bad creatures out of your deck and you end up with your best creature in your hand.  That is some good.


I'm going to have to agree with Shane here.  Intuition and Gifts are insane, and Survival is sick.  There are too many sick combos to even name (just think Cauldren Dance and that's just the beginning).
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« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2005, 01:54:01 am »

Anyone make up any cards for their t4 stacks? Ive made up like 2 that are fun.
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« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2005, 05:49:56 am »

Quote from: The M.E.T.H.O.D
Anyone make up any cards for their t4 stacks? Ive made up like 2 that are fun.


It might be cool to use some Card Creation Forum Cards. I guess next time I see Bram I'll have to force him to make some cards for me Wink
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« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2005, 08:58:24 am »

Quote from: The M.E.T.H.O.D
Anyone make up any cards for their t4 stacks? Ive made up like 2 that are fun.


Praytell, what are they?  So far the only one in this thread is the one I suggest on the first page, which might be worded incorrectly or overpowered.
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« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2005, 12:57:45 am »

Here's a couple cards I've made:



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« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2005, 04:58:49 pm »

One of the 2 Type 4 stacks of ISP (yes, Rudy has the other one)

Counters

Absorb
Arcane Denial
Assert Authority
Counterspell
Decree of Silence
Deflection
Desertion
Discocombulate
Dismiss
Dissipate
Dromar's Charm
Ertai, Wizard Adept
Ertai's Meddling
Fervent Denial
Foil
Forbid
Hinder
Last Word
Memory Lapse
Spell Blast
Spelljack
Thwart
Time Stop
Undermine
Voidmage Prodigy

Wrath Effects

Akroma's Vengeance
Balance
Balancing Act
Barter in Blood
Decree of Annihilation
Decree of Pain
Devastation
Dregs of Sorrow
Dwarven Catapult
Evacuation
Flowstone Slide
Forced March
Inferno
Innocent Blood
Jokulhaups
Kirtar's Wrath
March of Souls
Nevinyrral's Disk
Obliterate
Pernicious Deed
Plague Wind
Pox
Retribution of the Meek
Rout
Savage Twister
Soulscour
Starstorm
Tsabo's Decree
Wrath of God

Card Advantage

Aladdin's Lamp
Allied Strategies
Ancestral Memories
Arcanis, the Omnipotent
Armistice
Book of Rass
Cabal Conditioning
Capsize
Citanul Flute
Fact or Fiction
Gifts Ungiven
Inheritance
Intuition
Legacy Weapon
Opportunity
Planar Portal
Promise of Power
Scroll Rack
Skeletal Scrying
Thran Tome
Tower of Fortunes
Urza's Blueprints
Whispers of the Muse
Yawgmoth's Agenda
Yawgmoth's Bargain

Utility Creatures

Ali From Cairo
Anger
Bane of the Living
Bone Shredder
Chainer, Dementia Master
Chromeshell Crab
Desolation Giant
Duplicant
False Prophet
Flowstone Overseer
Genesis
Gerrard Capashen
Glarecaster
Glory
Gorilla Shaman
Hisoka, Minamo Sensei
Hoverguard Sweepers
Karmic Guide
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Locust Swarm
Mageta The Lion
Memnarch
Metathran Aerostat
Mindless Automaton
Mindwarper
Myojin of Night's Reach
Myojin of Seeing Winds
Mystic Snake
Nekrataal
Nezumi Graverobber
Phage, the Untouchable
Plaguebearer
Royal Assassin
Rubinia Soulsinger
Skinthinner
Smokespew Invoker
Sunscape Battlemage
Timmy, Power Gamer
Vampiric Dragon
Vesuvan Doppelganger
Viridian Shaman
Voidmage Apprentice
Volrath's Shapeshifter
Wonder

Beatsticks

Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Angel of Retribution
Arcades Sabboth
Autumn Willow
Avatar of Woe
Bloodfire Colossus
Bosh, Iron Golem
Bringer of the Black Dawn
Bringer of the Blue Dawn
Bringer of the Red Dawn
Cockatrice
Cognivore
Colossus of Sardia
Crush of Wurms
Darksteel Colossus
Draco
Drifting Djinn
Eternal Dragon
Force of nature
Furnace Dragon
Gurzigost
Havoc Demon
Hunting Pack
Hypnox
Imperial Hellkite
Iridescent Angel
Jareth, Leonine Titan
Keiga, the Tide Star
Kokusho, the Evening Star
Krosan Cloudscraper
Krosan Colossus
Kuro, Pitlord
Lhurgoyf
Living Hive
Magma Giant
Mist Dragon
Morphling
Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
Myojin of Cleansing Fire
Myojin of Life's Web
Nicol Bolas
One Dozen Eyes
Pentavus
Penumbra Wurm
Phantom Nishoba
Phyrexian Colossus
Phyrexian Processor
Plated Slagwurm
Platinum Angel
Pristine Angel
Rainbow Efreet
Reiver Demon
Reya Dawnbringer
Rock Basilisk
Root Elemental
Rorix Bladewing
Scion of Darkness
Serra Avatar
Silent Specter
Silvos, Rogue Elemental
Spirit of the Night
Thorn Elemental
Tidal Kraken
Tornado Elemental
Triskelion
Trolls of Tel-Jihad
Verdant Force
Visara the Dreadful
Volrath the Fallen
Weatherseed Treefolk
Worldgorger Dragon
Xanthid Statue
Yosei, the Morning Star

Utility cards

Aladdin's Ring
Animate Dead
Beacon of Immortality
Beacon of Unrest
Binding Grasp
Blatant Thievery
Brand of Ill Omen
Bribery
Captain's Maneuver
Cauldron Dance
Confiscate
Corpse Dance
Dance of the Dead
Dawn of the Dead
Delerium
Door to Nothingness
Eye for an Eye
Fires of Yavimaya
Fireshrieker
Flood
Forcefield
Grab the Reins
Helm of Obedience
Holistic Wisdom
Icy Manipulator
Insurrection
Interdict
Lightning Greaves
Maze of Ith
Mindslaver
Miraculous Recovery
Necromancy
Rapid Decay
Ray of Command
Reite Lantern
Reverse the Sands
Savage Beating
Shallow Grave
Spinal Embrace
Stifle
Story Circle
Tainted Pact
Thieves' Auction
Time Stretch
Tooth and Nail
Tormod's Crypt
Tower of Eons
Turn the Tables
Twilight's Call
Vedalkan Orrery
Volrath's Stronghold
Yavimaya's Embrace

Spot Removal

Afterlife
Altar of Shadows
Annihilate
Artifact Mutation
Ashes to Ashes
Betrayal of Flesh
Chainer's Edict
Chaos Orb
Chastise
Coffin Purge
Creeping Mold
Cremate
Dark Banishing
Desert Twister
Disenchant
Dismantling Blow
Divine Offering
Dust to Dust
Engineered Explosives
Hull Breach
Murderous Spoils
Naturalize
Order/Chaos
Orim's Thunder
Parallax Wave
Predator, Flagship
Rack and Ruin
Rend Flesh
Swords to Plowshares
Terminate
Tornado
Urza's Rage
Vindicate
Wing Shards
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It's hard to be religious, when certain people don`t get incinerated by lightning...

On another note, while Ancestral is clearly very very good, having it in your opening is hand is not. - AmbivalentDuck
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« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2005, 05:19:45 pm »

Thanks for posting the cards, Jacob, and the list, Pyromaniac.

For reference, this is what my posts on the previous page would look like if phpBB allowed.
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Lost In Admiration
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« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2005, 07:38:35 pm »

I've been told that we have the most INSANE type four stack around.  That could be because most of the thing is foiled out or because we play with so many infinite effects.  I'll let you decide. Without further ado here's the Team GWS stack (It's pretty key to note that we play with alternate casting costs of any sort as not counting for your spell for the turn, this includes Morph, Prismatic, FoW or Misdirection, Affinity (not quite an alternate but...), and Flashback):

Total: 240 Cards

Guys that attack for a shitload: 12
Avarax
Bladewing the Risen
Consumptive GOO
Cromat
Dauthi Mercenary
Dragon Tyrant
Furnace Spirit
Goblin Taskmaster
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
Snarling Undorak
Two-headed Dragon
Warbreak Trumpeter

Free Men: 16
Avatar of Woe (we count this as an alt if there are 10 guys)
Bane of the Living
Bringer of the Black Dawn
Bringer of the Blue Dawn
Bringer of the Red Dawn
Bringer of the White Dawn
Draco (with a land)
Echo Tracer
Furnace Dragon
Imperial Hellkite
Krosan Cloudscraper
Root Elemental
Skinthinner
Voidmage Apprentice
Voidmage Prodigy
Willbender

Other guys: 46
Ancient Hydra
Anger
Arcanis the Omnipotent
Armored Guardian
Bloodfire Colossus
Bosh, Iron Golem
Chainer, Dementia Master
Crowd Favorites
Crush of Wurms
Darksteel Colossus
Desolation Giant
Eight-and-a-half-tails
Flowstone Overseer
Genesis
Glarecaster
Glory
Hisoka, Minamo Sensei
Hypnox
Johnny, Combo Player
Keiga, the Tide Star
Memnarch
Mischievous Quanar (with limit to one copy PER SPELL)
Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
Myojin of Cleansing Fire
Myojin of Life’s Web
Myojin of Night’s Reach
Mystic Snake
Nezumi Winthefuckinggame
Nieeeeecolllll BoaaaaLAS
Penumbra Wurm
Phage the Untouchable
Phantom Nishoba
Plated Slagwurm
Reiver Demon
Reya Dawnbringer
Rorix Bladewing
Scandalmonger
Scion of Darkness (should be the prerelease guy)
Smokespew Invoker
Symbiotic Wurm
Timmy, Power Gamer
Verdant Force
Viridian Zealot
Visara the Dreadful
Volrath the Fallen
Withered Wretch

Creature Removal Spells: 35
Afterlife
Agonizing Demise
Annihilate
Backlash
Barter in Blood
Betrayal of Flesh
Chastise
Decree of Pain
Delirium
Diabolic Edict
Dominate
Dregs of Sorrow
Dwarven Catapult
Evacuation
Exile
Fevered Convulsions
Fissure
Grab the Reins
Illuminate (YOU HAVE TO PLAY WITH THIS CARD)
Innocent Blood
Lethal Vapors
Persuasion
Plague Wind
Planeswalker’s Scorn
Predator, Flagship
Rout
Second Thoughts
Slaughter
Spinal Embrace
Starstorm
Swords to Plowshares
Task Mage Assembly
Terminate
Wing Shards
Yavimaya’s Embrace

Artifact/Enchantment Removal: 8
Abolish
Altar’s Light
Artifact Mutation
Bash to Bits
Dismantling Blow
Orim’s Thunder
Ray of Distortion
Smash

Universal Removal: 11
Akroma’s Vengeance
Blatant Thievery
Capsize
Confiscate
Crosis’s Charm
Legacy Weapon
Obliterate
Oblivion Stone
Pernicious Deed
Recoil
Soulscour

Counterspells: 26
Absorb
Assert Authority
Counterspell
Decree of Silence
Desertion
Discombobulate
Dismiss
Dissipate
Dromar’s Charm
Ertai’s Meddling
Exclude
Fervent Denial
Fold into Aether
Forbid
Force of Will
Last Word
Remove Soul
Rewind
Spell Blast
Spelljack
Spite/Malice
Suffocating Blast
Time Stop
Undermine
Vex
Volcanic Geyser (I put this here, as a counterspell)

Damage Prevention/Redirection: 15
Captain’s Maneuver
Deflection
Honorable Passage
Invulnerability
Misdirection
Moment’s Peace
Panacea
Pentagram of the Ages
Reflect Damage
Reverse Damage (I can’t find a black boarder one, can ANYONE help?)
Safeguard
Samite Ministration
Shunt
Tangle
Turn the Tables

Tutor/Draw: 28
Acquire
Ancestral Recall
Armistice
Breakthough
Citanul Flute
Compulsion
Concentrate
Fact and/or Fiction
Flash of Insight
Future Sight
Gifts Ungiven
Mind’s Eye
Opportunity
Planar Portal
Promise of Power
Pulse of the Grid
Read the Runes
Reviving Vapors
Rush of Knowledge
Soothsaying
Staff of Domination
Survival of the Fittest
Tooth and Nail
Tower of Fortunes
Treasure Trove
Whisper’s of the Muse
Wild Research
Yawgmoth’s Bargain

Graveyard Stuff: 13
All Suns’ Dawn
Beacon of Unrest
Bosium Strip
Cauldron Dance
Corpse Dance
Dawn of the Dead
Holistic Wisdom
Hymn of Rebirth
Once More With Feeling
Recoup
Restock
Twilight’s Call
Yawgmoth’s Agenda

Land: 6
Arena
Boseiju, Who Shelters All
Kor Haven
Maze of Ith
Volrath’s Stronghold
Winding Canyons

Other Cards: 24
Aladdin’s Ring
Beacon of Destruction
Beacon of Immortality
Cabal Conditioning
Door to Nothingness
Dragon’s Breath
Eureka
Fist of Suns (easily the best card in the deck)
Gleemax
Inferno
Insurrection
Kaboom!
Mindslaver
Mirari
Ornate Kanzashi
Pyromancy
Radiate
Rocket Launcher
Searing Wind
Time Stretch
Urza’s Rage
Vedalken Orrery
Who/What/When/Where/Why (no life limit)
Yet Another Aether Vortex
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Team GWS: έχουμε πολλοί τ�?ελός παίζω
giddygorgon
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« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2005, 10:02:46 pm »

Illuminate seems utterly ridiculous.  Kill a creature, a player, and draw any number of cards? I mean I understand it is the broken format, but still.
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If you know of a place to play t1 in Salt Lake, PM me please!
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