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						| VGB | 
								|  | «  on: November 19, 2004, 02:15:52 pm » |  | 
 
 I've got more than a passing interest in T4, and would like to build a stack. So far the only concrete list I have is this one  featured on Wizards courtesy of Smmenen. What I would like is: 1) People to list or link stacks they play and find workable. 2) Cards unique to T4 that help things along, and 3) List cards that are borderline unplayable, or flat out too disgusting (barring the typical X spells and abilities, of course). If there is already some uber-T4 resource and this is a severe case of hia (headinass) on my part, well, 'scuse me. |  
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						| Nibble | 
								|  | « Reply #1 on: November 19, 2004, 04:42:14 pm » |  | 
 
 I don't feel like typing up our whole stack (though I might at some point, to see what we might add), but I can give you a few notables from it. Well, notable meaning interesting ones I don't remember seeing in the article or discussed somewhere. Volrath's Stronghold (sooo good) Mind's Eye (about as broken as Whispers) Fevered Convulsions Crosis, the Purger (possibly, he's borderline not-too-useful) Tsabo's Decree (and we pretend the Legend creature type still exists) Hymn of Rebirth Lightning Greaves Rain of Rust Tidal Kraken (and we were also considering Thorn Elemental and Rhox) Legacy Weapon Ashen Powder Child of Gaea Reya Dawnbringer Winds of Rath I think 5D came out after the article, so just for reference, here are the major ones we added from it: Bringer of the White Dawn Bringer of the Blue Dawn Bringer of the Black Dawn Beacon of Immortality Beacon of Unrest I also don't know what everyone else runs for graveyard control, but we've got Coffin Purge, Cremate, and Ebony Charm. Side effect of this is, Charm becomes one of the favored ways to kill people.   As for stuff that's completely broken, we don't run any library stackers (Flash of Insight, and that enchantment I can't remember right now). Legacy Weapon feels borderline to me, but it hasn't been too terrible. Mind's Eye is pretty sick, but usually makes the controller a big target, so it's alright. We haven't added CoK stuff yet, so I can't comment on Graverobber or black Myojin. Volrath's Stronghold may seem pretty weak, but it's proven to be a major nuisance on more than one occasion. (play Quanar, oh it's countered?, upkeep Stronghold, draw Quanar, play Quanar, oh it got killed?, upkeep Stronghold, draw Quanar, play Quanar...)  It's still worse than Genesis, I guess, but sometimes it's actually harder to remove the Stronghold. Oh yeah, and we recently added Chimeric Coils. Yes, it's an X effect, but hey, it's essentially like Door - it takes a turn before it can do anything, and it can kill at most one person without some form of recursion. It's actually fairer, in a sense, because it can be blocked (and doesn't trample), can be hit by all artifact removal AND all creature removal, and the removal can be a lot nastier if you go crazy with the X (Backlash, Agonizing Demise, Spinal Embrace, Grab the Reins...) |  
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						| Jet | 
								|  | « Reply #2 on: November 19, 2004, 04:55:10 pm » |  | 
 
 Here's the last list I typed up for the T4 group. It's a few months out of date, and I forgot a few cards. But it should be good enough to feel for what I play.
 
 
 
 // Lands
 1  Diamond Valley
 1  Kor Haven
 1  Maze of Ith
 1  Winding Canyons
 1  Shivan Gorge
 1  Arena
 1  Volrath's Stronghold
 1  Karakas
 1  Treetop Village
 1  Nantuko Monastery
 
 // Creatures
 1  Mischievous Quanar
 1  Chromeshell Crab
 1  Voidmage Prodigy
 1  Voidmage Apprentice
 1  Rainbow Efreet
 1  Primoc Escapee
 1  Morphling
 1  Bringer of the Blue Dawn
 1  Aven Fateshaper
 1  Dominating Licid
 1  Ertai, Wizard Adept
 1  Cognivore
 1  Stormscape Battlemage
 1  Quicksilver Dragon
 1  Riptide Shapeshifter
 1  Mist Dragon
 1  Palinchron
 1  Willbender
 1  Hoverguard Sweepers
 1  Sutured Ghoul
 1  Chainer, Dementia Master
 1  Abyssal Horror
 1  Spirit of the Night
 1  Bane of the Living
 1  Smokespew Invoker
 1  Havoc Demon
 1  Nightscape Battlemage
 1  Necrosavant
 1  Avatar of Woe
 1  Laquatus's Champion
 1  Faceless Butcher
 1  Scion of Darkness
 1 [UG] Infernal Spawn of Evil
 1  Volrath the Fallen
 1  Skinthinner
 1  Desolation Angel
 1  Bringer of the Black Dawn
 1  Nekrataal
 1  Pit Spawn
 1  Hypnox
 1  Bone Shredder
 1  Reiver Demon
 1  Ancestor's Chosen
 1  Academy Rector
 1  Karmic Guide
 1  Crowd Favorites
 1  Jareth, Leonine Titan
 1  Radiant's Dragoons
 1  Akroma, Angel of Wrath
 1  Eternal Dragon
 1  Bringer of the White Dawn
 1  Glarecaster
 1  Reya Dawnbringer
 1  Silver Seraph
 1  False Prophet
 1  Furnace Dragon
 1  Imperial Hellkite
 1  Crater Hellion
 1  Keldon Champion
 1  Shivan Phoenix
 1  Macetail Hystrodon
 1  Ashen Firebeast
 1  Rorix Bladewing
 1  Worldgorger Dragon
 1  Thunderscape Battlemage
 1  Rockshard Elemental
 1  Kamahl, Pit Fighter
 1  Thundermare
 1  Butcher Orgg
 1  Desolation Giant
 1  Flowstone Overseer
 1  Shard Phoenix
 1  Gorilla Shaman (1)
 1  Ancient Hydra
 1  Krosan Cloudscraper
 1  Plated Slagwurm
 1  Penumbra Wurm
 1  Bringer of the Green Dawn
 1  Gurzigost
 1  Root Elemental
 1  Thicket Elemental
 1  Deranged Hermit
 1  Nantuko Vigilante
 1  Living Hive
 1  Krosan Tusker
 1  Gigapede
 1  Thornscape Battlemage
 1  Thorn Elemental
 1  Silvos, Rogue Elemental
 1  Symbiotic Wurm
 1  Genesis
 1  Child of Gaea
 1  Verdant Force
 1  Gamekeeper
 1 [UG] Timmy, Power Gamer
 1  Spike Weaver
 1  Spiritmonger
 1  Nicol Bolas
 1  Pyre Zombie
 1  Phantom Nishoba
 1  Mystic Snake
 1  Fungal Shambler
 1  Vampiric Dragon
 1  Rith, the Awakener
 1  Dromar, the Banisher
 1  Tsabo Tavoc
 1  Pentavus
 1  Bosh, Iron Golem
 1  Duplicant
 1  Memnarch
 1  Platinum Angel
 1  Darksteel Colossus
 1  Suncrusher
 1  Colossus of Sardia
 1  Etched Oracle
 1  Masticore
 
 // Spells
 1  Foil
 1  Beacon of Tomorrows
 1  Deflection
 1 [UG] Common Courtesy
 1  Confiscate
 1  Inspiration
 1  Binding Grasp
 1  Fact or Fiction
 1  Persuasion
 1  Ancestral Recall
 1  Stifle
 1  Misdirection
 1  Opportunity
 1  Browse
 1  Dreams of the Dead
 1  Control Magic
 1  Counterspell
 1  Time Stretch
 1  Ertai's Meddling
 1  Veiled Sentry
 1  Dispersing Orb
 1  Future Sight
 1  Capsize
 1  Exclude
 1  Dismiss
 1  Assert Authority
 1  Spell Blast
 1  Acquire
 1  Whispers of the Muse
 1  Vex
 1  Blatant Thievery
 1  Flash of Insight
 1  Spelljack
 1  Treachery
 1  Thwart
 1  Flood
 1  Arcane Denial (1)
 1  Discombobulate
 1  Last Word
 1  Evacuation
 1  Forbid
 1  Fervent Denial
 1  Force of Will
 1  Decree of Silence
 1  Interdict
 1  Rewind
 1  Curfew
 1  Intuition
 1  Choking Tethers
 1  Dissipate
 1  Rescind
 1  Desertion
 1  Dominate
 1  Dregs of Sorrow
 1  Tainted Pact
 1  Yawgmoth's Agenda
 1  Yawgmoth's Bargain
 1  Slaughter
 1  Skeletal Scrying
 1  Reaping the Graves
 1  Plague Wind
 1  Dawn of the Dead
 1  Dark Banishing
 1  Cruel Revival
 1  Headstone
 1  Barter in Blood
 1  Betrayal of Flesh
 1  Decree of Pain
 1  Fevered Convulsions
 1  Diabolic Edict
 1  Promise of Power
 1  Twilight's Call
 1  Death Pulse
 1  Annihilate
 1  Feast or Famine (1)
 1  Agonizing Demise
 1  Murderous Spoils
 1  Cremate
 1  Expunge
 1  Corpse Dance
 1  Oversold Cemetery
 1  Chastise
 1  Soul Nova
 1  Winds of Rath
 1  Honorable Passage
 1  Dismantling Blow
 1  Radiant's Judgment
 1  Oblation
 1  Balance
 1  Rout
 1  Catastrophe
 1  Renewed Faith
 1  Akroma's Blessing
 1  Soulscour
 1  Akroma's Vengeance
 1  Second Thoughts
 1  Afterlife
 1  Balancing Act
 1  Beacon of Immortality
 1  Congregate
 1  Reprisal (1)
 1  Orim's Thunder
 1  Miraculous Recovery
 1  Altar's Light
 1  Ancestral Tribute
 1  Wipe Clean
 1  Exile
 1  Ray of Distortion
 1  Wrath of God
 1  Turn the Tables
 1  Humility
 1  Worship
 1  Pulse of the Forge
 1  Insurrection
 1  Slice and Dice
 1  Rain of Rust
 1  Dwarven Catapult
 1  Mogg Infestation
 1  Rock Slide
 1  Grab the Reins
 1  Savage Beating
 1  Violent Eruption
 1  Obliterate
 1  Ember Shot
 1  Kaboom!
 1  Flowstone Slide
 1  Starstorm
 1  Jokulhaups
 1  Heat Ray
 1  Lightning Blast
 1  Misguided Rage
 1  Solar Blast
 1  Barbed Lightning
 1  Beacon of Destruction
 1  Fissure
 1  Scrap
 1  Decree of Annihilation
 1  Hunting Pack
 1  Crush of Wurms
 1  Bearscape
 1  Desert Twister
 1  Grizzly Fate
 1  All Suns' Dawn
 1  Reclaim
 1  Repopulate
 1  One Dozen Eyes
 1  Beast Attack
 1  Tornado
 1  Tooth and Nail
 1  Holistic Wisdom
 1  Night Soil (2)
 1  Moment of Silence
 1  Survival of the Fittest
 1  Decree of Savagery
 1  Saproling Burst
 1  Bind
 1  Void
 1  Reflect Damage
 1  Spite/Malice
 1  Yavimaya's Embrace
 1  Recoil
 1  Crosis's Charm
 1  Order/Chaos
 1  Terminate
 1  Fires of Yavimaya
 1  Captain's Maneuver
 1  Suffocating Blast
 1  Prophetic Bolt
 1  Spinal Embrace
 1  Eladamri's Call
 1  Treva's Charm
 1  Cauldron Dance
 1  Reviving Vapors
 1  Dromar's Charm
 1  Pernicious Deed
 1  Absorb
 1  Undermine
 1  Tower of Champions
 1  Tower of Fortunes
 1  Tower of Eons
 1  Soul Foundry
 1  Aladdin's Ring
 1  Aladdin's Lamp
 1  Planar Portal
 1  Shield of Kaldra
 1  Sword of Kaldra
 1  Sword of Light and Shadow
 1  Sword of Fire and Ice
 1  Legacy Weapon
 1  Smokestack
 1  Door to Nothingness
 1  Loxodon Warhammer
 1  Phyrexian Grimoire
 1  Panacea
 1  Vedalken Orrery
 1  Vedalken Shackles
 1  Illusionary Mask
 1  Citanul Flute
 1  Scroll Rack
 1  Nevinyrral's Disk
 1  Mind's Eye
 1  Grinning Totem
 1  Mindslaver
 1  Xanthic Statue
 1  Jade Statue
 1  Scythe of the Wretched
 1  Oblivion Stone
 1  Thought Prison
 1  Altar of Shadows
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						| VGB | 
								|  | « Reply #3 on: November 19, 2004, 05:52:44 pm » |  | 
 
 Thanks, guys     As for stuff that's completely broken, we don't run any library stackers (Flash of Insight, and that enchantment I can't remember right now). Legacy Weapon feels borderline to me, but it hasn't been too terrible. Mind's Eye is pretty sick, but usually makes the controller a big target, so it's alright. We haven't added CoK stuff yet, so I can't comment on Graverobber or black Myojin. Volrath's Stronghold may seem pretty weak, but it's proven to be a major nuisance on more than one occasion. (play Quanar, oh it's countered?, upkeep Stronghold, draw Quanar, play Quanar, oh it got killed?, upkeep Stronghold, draw Quanar, play Quanar...)  It's still worse than Genesis, I guess, but sometimes it's actually harder to remove the Stronghold. That blue enchantment would be Soothsaying - and I agree, it and Flash of Insight are pretty disgusting - at least Aladdin's Lamp takes a turn to set up. Nezumi Graverobber requires crap in the graveyard, but the fact that it's a walking Tormod's Crypt for all players that turns into a Chainer seems pretty brutal - but since it doesn't actually win the game on the spot it seems like a reasonable card in theory, and not necessarily any worse than, say, Glarecaster. I guess it speaks for the power of cantrips in T4, since that one stack has Headstone in it; that almost made me laugh.    <j_orlove> there is actually a good way to play 2 person T4
 <j_orlove> shuffle up the stack some
 <j_orlove> each grab some chunk
 <j_orlove> then start playing
 <j_orlove> the games go really fast with just 2 people
 <j_orlove> and you can mix up the cards after each game
 <j_orlove> it works with >2 people too
 <j_orlove> it's T4 when you're in a hurry
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						| Jacob Orlove 
								Official Time Traveller of TMD 
								Administrator 
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								Posts: 8074
								
								 
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								|  | « Reply #4 on: November 19, 2004, 10:44:50 pm » |  | 
 
 Okay people, now that there's a list typed up, just copy it into notepad and edit it to reflect what you play. 
 As an aside: burn and lifegain effects are pretty good if the numbers are big enough. The white and red beacons, in particular, are very strong.
 
 Graverobber is much, much stronger than glarecaster. He's a late game card, but he'll *just win* almost all the time.
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 Team Meandeck: O Lord, Guard my tongue from evil and my lips from speaking guile.
 To those who slander me, let me give no heed.
 May my soul be humble and forgiving to all.
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						| thorme | 
								|  | « Reply #5 on: November 19, 2004, 11:55:25 pm » |  | 
 
 I also really like Mindslicer - nice political critter in multiplayer, without being broken at all. |  
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						| moonkhan | 
								|  | « Reply #6 on: November 20, 2004, 02:38:36 pm » |  | 
 
 Here's a link to my current type 4 pool (286 cards):http://www.moonkhan.org/mtg/current_type4.txt I should finish the stack sometime soon (missing Forcefield, Illusionary Mask, Timmy, Johnny, and some other rares). All in all the power level feels high. We don't use firebreather's but we're using Myojin of Night's Reach and Cabal Conditioning. Aside from the usual suspects here are some cards we consider powerful in my play group: Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang is hot. Armistice is a great political enchantment. It's one of my personal favorites. Reweave is powerful. It turns cool enchantments like Dawn of the Dead into cooler enchantments like Holistic Wisdom! It's also a great way to resolve game_winning_critter when you arrange your library with Flash of Insight, Aladdin's Lamp, Soothsaying, etc. It can also remove indestructibles. With the current wave of indestructibles (myojins, DSC, Konda) Innocent Blood and Second Thoughts have proven very useful. I consider Second Thoughts a very high pick overall. Re: Headstone - great call! It's going in as soon as I find one ... Graveyard removal is key. I'm looking for other cantrips like that because I don't want to put in Withered Wretch. Cards that aren't making the grade: Crater Hellion - morph-killer but that's about it Disturbed Burial - Sorcery, too slow Godo, Bandit Warlord - cool with Vigilance creatures but the only Equipment we use is Tatsumasa Jugan, the Rising Star - being a cool-looking dragon isn't enough to make it into a type 4 pool Kodama of the North Tree - sadly he hasn't proven to be strong enough to waste a main phase casting Kuro, Pitlord - why when Smokespew does more for less? Living Death - really this and Twilight's Call are just a way to punish Phage and it takes a lot of luck to set up. Still a fun card. Mindblaze - when I read Kaboom! I decided that a main phase is better spent blasting everyone instead of one person for 8. Night Dealings - I saw someone on TMD with this and thought I'd try it. No one liked it. Reverse the Sands - ok, ok, so I thought it might be fun! Thanks for the great card ideas everyone! --Paul |  
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						| Kowal 
								My name is not Brian. 
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								|  | « Reply #7 on: December 08, 2004, 09:47:40 pm » |  | 
 
 I'm missing some juicy stuff, but I've never actually put effort in to finding the individual cards, I just put it together along the way.
 Kowal's Type Four Stack
 
 
 ---Random Broken---
 "Ach, Hans, Run!"
 Ashnod's Coupon
 Beacon of Tomorrows
 Blatant Thievery
 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
 Capsize
 Chaos Orb
 Door to Nothingness
 Illusionary Mask
 Mindslaver
 Savage Beating
 Soul Foundry
 Tangle Wire
 Timmy, Power Gamer
 Vedalken Orrery
 Winding Canyons
 Zur's Weirding
 
 ---Fatties---
 Arcades Sabboth
 Arcbound Overseer
 Armored Guardian
 Bosh, Iron Golem
 Bringer of the Black Dawn
 Bringer of the Blue Dawn
 Bringer of the Red Dawn
 Bringer of the White Dawn
 Chromium
 Crowd Favorites
 Crush of Wurms
 Darksteel Colossus
 Draco
 Elephant Ambush
 Eron the Relentless
 Eternal Dragon
 Genesis
 Hypnox
 Konda, Lord of Eiganjo
 Mageta the Lion
 Memnarch
 Mist Dragon
 Morphling
 Myojin of Cleansing Fire
 Myojin of Infinite Rage
 Myojin of Life's Web
 Myojin of Night's Reach
 Nicol Bolas
 Palladia-Mors
 Phage the Untouchable
 Phantom Nishoba
 Plated Slagwurm
 Reiver Demon
 Rorix Bladewing
 Symbiotic Wurm
 Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang
 Volrath's Shapeshifter
 Xanthic Statue
 Yosei, the Morning Star
 
 ---Utility Creatures---
 Academy Rector
 Anger
 Arcanis the Omnipotent
 Aven Fateshaper
 Callous Oppressor
 Chainer, Dementia Master
 Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
 Eternal Witness
 Faceless Butcher
 Gigapede
 Gilded Drake
 Glarecaster
 Glory
 Gorilla Shaman
 Mystic Snake
 Nantuko Vigilante
 Nezumi Graverobber
 Ouphe Vandals
 Riptide Shapeshifter
 Siege-Gang Commander
 Sunscape Battlemage
 Thunderscape Battlemage
 Voidmage Apprentice
 Voidmage Prodigy
 Willbender
 
 ---Masticores---
 Flowstone Overseer
 Masticore
 Plaguebearer
 Planeswalker's Scorn
 Smokespew Invoker
 Vampiric Dragon
 
 ---Counters---
 Arcane Denial
 Assert Authority
 Bind
 Counterspell
 Decree of Silence
 Deflection
 Desertion
 Dismiss
 Dissipate
 Dromar's Charm
 Ertai's Meddling
 Exclude
 Fervent Denial
 Foil
 Fold into Aether
 Forbid
 Fork
 Interdict
 Misdirection
 Null Brooch
 Shunt
 Spell Blast
 Spelljack
 Spite/Malice
 Squelch
 Stifle
 Suffocating Blast
 Thwart
 Time Stop
 Undermine
 Vex
 
 ---Recursion---
 All Suns' Dawn
 Beacon of Unrest
 Cauldron Dance
 Corpse Dance
 Holistic Wisdom
 Miraculous Recovery
 Necromancy
 Recurring Nightmare
 Twilight's Call
 Yawgmoth's Agenda
 
 ---Control Magics---
 Binding Grasp
 Confiscate
 Control Magic
 Dominate
 Insurrection
 Spinal Embrace
 Treachery
 Yavimaya's Embrace
 
 ---Removal---
 Agonizing Demise
 Altar's Light
 Annihilate
 Artifact Mutation
 Betrayal of Flesh
 Chainer's Edict
 Chastise
 Crooked Scales
 Dark Banishing
 Dismantling Blow
 Dregs of Sorrow
 Duplicant
 Exile
 Grab the Reins
 Kiku, Night's Flower
 Orim's Thunder
 Ray of Distortion
 Second Thoughts
 Shattering Pulse
 Slaughter
 Swords to Plowshares
 Tornado
 Tsabo's Decree
 Vindicate
 Wing Shards
 
 ---Wraths---
 Akroma's Vengeance
 Balance
 Barter in Blood
 Decree of Annihilation
 Decree of Pain
 Devastation
 Flowstone Slide
 Nevinyrral's Disk
 Obliterate
 Pernicious Deed
 Rout
 Solar Tide
 Upheaval
 World-Bottling Kit
 
 ---Tutor/Draw---
 Acquire
 Aladdin's Lamp
 Bribery
 Citanul Flute
 Compulsion
 Fact or Fiction
 Flash of Insight
 Future Sight
 Gifts Ungiven
 Grinning Totem
 Mind's Eye
 Opportunity
 Planar Portal
 Promise of Power
 Reviving Vapors
 Scroll Rack
 Scrying Glass
 Skeletal Scrying
 Skyship Weatherlight
 Survival of the Fittest
 Temporal Cascade
 Thought Dissector
 Tooth and Nail
 Tower of Fortunes
 Trade Secrets
 Whispers of the Muse
 
 ---Life Gain/Damage Prevention---
 Captain's Maneuver
 Maze of Ith
 Mirror Mirror
 Mirror Universe
 Panacea
 Pentagram of the Ages
 Protective Sphere
 Pulse of the Fields
 Reflect Damage
 Reverse Damage
 Reverse the Sands
 Tower of Eons
 
 ---Grave Hate---
 Cremate
 Mourner's Shield
 Night Soil
 
 ---Direct Damage---
 Aladdin's Ring
 Inferno
 Letter Bomb
 Mindblaze
 Pulse of the Forge
 Searing Wind
 Soulblast
 Urza's Rage
 
 
 Also, this thread seems like a commonly needed enough reference to be stickied.  So I did that.
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						| VGB | 
								|  | « Reply #8 on: December 13, 2004, 12:25:00 pm » |  | 
 
 2) Cards unique to T4 that help things along...
 Just in case this point was unclear, here's the gist - sometimes people make unique cards for T4, like this: Library of the Synod Legendary Land  : add    to your mana pool.  This mana may be used to play an additional spell this turn. If your T4 playgroup has some custom cards that add some great flavor your games, feel free to post them. |  
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						| Nefarias | 
								|  | « Reply #9 on: December 13, 2004, 01:18:31 pm » |  | 
 
 Well, I finally sat down and did it, so here's the Brass Man's stack. For those of you that are unaware, we use cards like Firebreathers and Staff of Domination to turbo-power the list. Note that the list is everchanging, and cards are always being taken out for decks, etc., and forgotten to be put back in. Also, if we have an uneven number of cards, we find a few fillers to even it out, hence some of the more questionable cards. Finally, we play with the rule that any alternate casting cost paid doesn't count as your spell for the turn, which explains the Fist of Suns and Dream Halls.
 ---Land---
 Kor Haven
 Winding Canyons
 Volrath’s Stronghold
 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
 
 ---Enchantments---
 Aggravated Assault
 Holistic Wisdom
 Planeswalker’s Mischief
 Oath of Lim-Dul
 Dream Halls
 “Ach! Hans, Run!”
 Future Sight
 Pernicious Deed
 Yawgmoth’s Bargain
 Dragon’s Breath
 Necromancy
 Yet Another AEther Vortex
 Yawgmoth’s Agenda
 Delaying Shield
 
 ---Instants & Sorceries---
 REMOVAL
 Crosis’s Charm
 Treva’s Charm
 Agonizing Demise
 Decree of Annihilation
 Spinal Embrace
 Grab the Reins
 Tsabo’s Decree
 Who/What/When/Where/Why
 Rain of Rust
 Obliterate
 Ray of Distortion
 Betrayal of Flesh
 Recoil
 Starstorm
 Rout
 Swords to Plowshares
 Capsize
 Rare-B-Gone
 Void
 Reweave
 Orim’s Thunder
 Altar’s Light
 Malice
 
 COUNTERSPELLS
 Spite
 Dromar’s Charm
 Undermine
 Absorb
 Discombobulate
 Rewind
 Hinder
 Last Word
 Assert Authority
 Ertai’s Meddling
 Dissipate
 Fervent Denial
 Decree of Silence
 Thwart
 Spelljack
 Desertion
 Time Stop
 Stifle
 Interdict
 Squelch
 Bind
 Shunt
 Deflection
 Fork
 
 OTHER
 Time Stretch
 Decree of Savagery
 Biorhythm
 Tooth and Nail
 Darigaaz’s Charm
 Cauldron Dance
 Corpse Dance
 Beacon of Unrest
 Twilight’s Call
 Dominate
 Reins of Power
 Blatant Thievery
 Acquire
 Bribery
 Flash of Insight
 All Suns’ Dawn
 Gifts Ungiven
 Fact or Fiction
 Whispers of the Muse
 Opportunity
 Captain’s Maneuver
 Prophetic Bolt
 Blast from the Past
 Inferno
 Searing Wind
 Urza’s Rage
 
 ---Artifacts---
 Aladdin’s Ring
 Bosium Strip
 Door to Nothingness
 Fist of Suns
 Gleemax
 Grinning Totem
 Legacy Weapon
 Letter Bomb
 Mind’s Eye
 Mindslaver
 Mirari
 Null Brooch
 Oblivion Stone
 Panacea
 Planar Portal
 Predator, Flagship
 Quicksilver Amulet
 Reito Lantern
 Soul Foundry
 Shield of the Ages
 Staff of Domination (Artist Proof)
 Tatsumasa, the Dragon’s Fang
 Thought Dissector
 Tower of Fortunes
 Vedalken Orrery
 
 ---Creatures---
 
 UTILITY
 Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
 Armored Guardian
 Glory
 Genesis
 Anger
 Filth
 Voidmage Prodigy
 Mystic Snake
 Willbender
 Voidmage Apprentice
 Ertai, Wizard Adept
 Nezumi Graverobber/Nighteyes the Desecrator
 Chainer, Dementia Master
 Crowd Favorites
 Volrath’s Shapeshifter
 Vesuvan Doppelganger
 Quicksilver Elemental
 Riptide Shapeshifter
 Bringer of the Blue Dawn
 Bringer of the White Dawn
 Bringer of the Black Dawn
 Richard Garfield, Ph.D.
 Timmy, Power Gamer
 Mischievous Quanar
 Eternal Witness
 Consumptive Goo
 Withered Wretch
 Memnarch
 Arcanis, the Omnipotent
 Infernal Denizen
 Glarecaster
 
 BIG GUYS
 Avarax
 Cromat
 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
 Kamahl, Pit Fighter
 Myojin of Night’s Reach
 Myojin of Life’s Web
 Bosh, Iron Golem
 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
 Kokusho, the Evening Star
 Nicol Bolas
 Mist Dragon
 Vampiric Dragon
 Flowstone Overseer
 Bloodshot Cyclops
 Bloodfire Colossus
 Darksteel Colossus
 Morphling
 Greater Morphling
 Bringer of the Red Dawn
 Hypnox
 Crush of Wurms
 Uktabi Kong
 
 I had some trouble catergorizing some cards, so if a card you're looking for isn't in one section, try another.
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						| CrazyCarl 
								2003 Vintage "World" Champion 
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								Posts: 467
								
								 
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								|  | « Reply #10 on: December 14, 2004, 04:05:23 pm » |  | 
 
 Ok, I was just talking to Steve and made him cry, so I gotta let people in on a few things I've been trying out:
 1) KIKI FUCKIN JIKI!!!:  Steve didn't know what this guy did, so I let him in on it: Haste, make a token of a non-legendary guy you control and the token has haste and is sacrificed at eot.
 
 Copy: Riptide Shapeshifter, Gangbang Commander, Eternal Witness, Mystic Snake, Voidmage Prodigy, Symbiotic Wurm, Staunch Defenders/Angel of Mercy, Boner Shredder, etc.  He's also pretty good to basically give your guys Vigilance by swinging with the copy and blocking with the real one or vice versa.
 
 2) Filth:  I know other people play with Wonder/Anger whatev, but Filth makes all your guys unblockable which is pretty hot.
 
 3) Vernal Equinox:  It's a Vedalken Orrey for everyone but only works with Enchantments and men.  It's playable but I don't know if it's worth taking up a turn casting.
 
 4) Inspiration/Gush(no ACC):  They're just simple +1 card advantage spells.
 
 5) All of the CoK Daggrons and Miyojins: I know the Green daggron and blue miyojin suck, but it's kind of cool to have the complte cycle.
 
 Someone suggested Headstone and I want one so bad!
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						| VGB | 
								|  | « Reply #11 on: December 28, 2004, 03:03:26 pm » |  | 
 
 Here  is a list of all currently legal Vintage cards ranked according to their T4 playability. |  
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						| Smmenen 
								Guest
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								|  | « Reply #12 on: January 10, 2005, 07:48:09 pm » |  | 
 
 How did I miss this thread.  Someone should sticky it. |  
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						| thorme | 
								|  | « Reply #13 on: January 10, 2005, 08:23:10 pm » |  | 
 
 Mist Dragon - 2
 
 That's some serious analysis VGB - thanks!  I did see a couple typos like the one I pointed out - you may want to fix that. |  
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						| Smmenen 
								Guest
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								|  | « Reply #14 on: January 10, 2005, 08:27:28 pm » |  | 
 
 WTF.  Mist Dragon is like a top 20 pick in my deck.  It's ridic and impossible to kill. |  
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						| Triple_S 
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								|  | « Reply #15 on: January 10, 2005, 08:41:17 pm » |  | 
 
 The ShortBus Type 4 Stack (last revised 10 January 2005):
 Beta
 Clone
 Unlimited
 Chaos Orb
 Berserk
 Illusionary Mask
 Revised
 Reverse Damage
 4th Edition
 Fissure
 Balance
 Nevinyrral's Disk
 Wrath of God
 Aladdin's Lamp
 7th Edition
 Dregs of Sorrow
 Aladdin's Ring
 8th Edition
 Inferno
 Legends
 Karakas
 Antiquities
 Colossus of Sardia
 The Dark
 Maze of Ith
 Fallen Empires
 Dwarven Catapult
 Night Soil
 Ice Age
 Swords to Plowshares
 Jokulhaups
 Alliances
 Reprisal
 Gorilla Shaman
 Lim-Dul's Vault
 Exile
 Mirage
 Reflect Damage
 Kaervek's Purge
 Spirit of the Night
 Mist Dragon
 Dissipate
 Savage Twister
 Visions
 Impulse
 Retribution of the Meek
 Zhalfirin Crusader
 Rainbow Efreet
 Vampiric Tutor
 Weatherlight
 Tranquil Grove
 Xanthic Statue
 Tempest
 Intuition
 Verdant Force
 Scroll Rack
 Capsize
 Whispers of the Muse
 Interdict
 Dismiss
 Diabolic Edict
 Stronghold
 Volrath's Shapeshifter
 Rebound
 Volrath's Stronghold
 Exodus
 Survival of the Fittest
 Plaguebearer
 Forbid
 Urza's Saga
 Citanul Flute
 Dark Hatchling
 Morphling
 Confiscate
 Child of Gaea
 Serra Avatar
 Urza's Legacy
 Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
 Opportunity
 Urza's Destiny
 Masticore
 Quash
 Yavimaya Hollow
 Mercadian Masques
 Panacea
 Misdirection
 Ballista Squad
 Blood Oath
 Bribery
 Ivory Mask
 Soothsaying
 Nemesis
 Predator, Flagship
 Kor Haven
 Volrath the Fallen
 Flowstone Overseer
 Dominate
 Prophecy
 Plague Wind
 Mirror Strike
 Avatar of Woe
 Searing Wind
 Invasion
 Restock
 Planar Portal
 Agonizing Demise
 Tsabo's Decree
 Backlash
 Undermine
 Spite/Malice
 Dromar, the Banisher
 Cauldron Dance
 Rith, the Awakener
 Twilight's Call
 Reya Dawnbringer
 Tsabo Tavoc
 Captain Sisay
 Reviving Vapors
 Urza's Rage
 Exclude
 Thicket Elemental
 Artifact Mutation
 Dismantling Blow
 Annihilate
 Cremate
 Crosis, the Purger
 Darigaaz, the Igniter
 Obliterate
 Bind
 Armored Guardian
 Rout
 Treva, the Renewer
 Spinal Embrace
 Aura Mutation
 Fact or Fiction
 Yawgmoth's Agenda
 Hanna, Ship's Navigator
 Void
 Protective Sphere
 Planeshift
 Confound
 Treva's Charm
 Mirrorwood Treefolk
 Aura Blast
 Dromar's Charm
 Stormscape Battlemage
 Thornscape Battlemage
 Planewalker's Scorn
 Eladamri's Call
 Terminate
 Draco
 Sunscape Battlemage
 Crosis's Charm
 Apocalypse
 Order/Chaos
 Orim's Thunder
 Wild Research
 Phyrexian Gargantua
 Bloodfire Colossus
 Mystic Snake
 Fungal Shambler
 Captain's Maneuver
 Pernicious Deed
 Prophetic Bolt
 Legacy Weapon
 Desolation Giant
 Penumbra Wurm
 Odyssey
 Hollistic Wisdom
 Second Thoughts
 Iridescent Angel
 Kirtar's Wrath
 Malevolent Awakening
 Fervent Denial
 Mindslicer
 Kamahl, Pit Fighter
 Bash to Bits
 Time Stretch
 Beast Attack
 Ray of Distortion
 Volley of Boulders
 Balancing Act
 Mirari
 Tainted Pact
 Torment
 Chainer, Dementia Master
 Radiate
 Breakthrough
 Hypnox
 Plagiarize
 Compulsion
 Laquatus' Champion
 Judgement
 Glory
 Spelljack
 Ember Shot
 Phantom Nishoba
 Guiltfeeder
 Flash of Insight
 Chastise
 Anger
 Genesis
 Crush of Wurms
 Onslaught
 Arcanis the Omnipotent
 Cruel Revival
 Rummaging Wizard
 Oversold Cemetery
 Crowd Favorites
 Silklash Spider
 Kaboom
 Quicksilver Dragon
 Akroma's Vengeance
 Insurrection
 Visara the Dreadful
 Future Sight
 Exalted Angel
 Glarecaster
 Blatant Thievery
 Riptide Shapeshifter
 Discombobulate
 Symbiotic Wurm
 Jareth, Leonine Titan
 Silvos, Rogue Elemental
 Rorix Bladewing
 Legions
 Smokespew Invoker
 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
 Phage the Untouchable
 Withered Wretch
 Nantuko Vigilante
 Havoc Demon
 Chromeshell Crab
 Voidmage Apprentice
 Bane of the Living
 Scion of Darkness
 Imperial Hellkite
 Willbender
 Scourge
 Mischievious Quanar
 Cabal Conditioning
 Decree of Annihilation
 Rush of Knowledge
 Stifle
 Wing Shards
 Decree of Pain
 Decree of Silence
 Hunting Pack
 Gilded Light
 Mirrodin
 Proteus Staff
 Soul Nova
 Plated Slagwurm
 Living Hive
 Assert Authority
 Bosh, Iron Golem
 Annul
 Quicksilver Elemental
 Platinum Angel
 Tower of Eons
 Barter in Blood
 Lightning Greaves
 Solar Tide
 Mindslaver
 Oblivion Stone
 Duplicant
 Promise of Power
 Tower of Fortunes
 Tooth and Nail
 Reiver Demon
 Mind's Eye
 Altar's Light
 Betrayal of Flesh
 Pentavus
 Grab the Reins
 Soul Foundry
 Darksteel
 Thought Dissector
 Soulscour
 Last Word
 Pulse of the Fields
 Memnarch
 Darksteel Colossus
 Pristine Angel
 Panoptic Mirror
 Pulse of the Grid
 Fifth Dawn
 All Suns Dawn
 Bringer of the Black Dawn
 Beacon of Tomorrows
 Beacon of Immortality
 Vedalken Orrery
 Suncrusher
 Door to Nothingness
 Eternal Witness
 Acquire
 Etched Oracle
 Beacon of Unrest
 Bringer of the White Dawn
 Champions of Kamigawa
 Soulblast
 Myojin of Seeing Winds
 Myojin of Life's Web
 Squelch
 Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
 The Unspeakable
 Nezumi Graverobber
 Time Stop
 Rend Flesh
 Reweave
 Ryusei, the Falling Star
 Konda, Lord of Eiganjo
 Myojin of Infinite Rage
 Reverse the Sands
 Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang
 Boseiju, Who Shelter's All
 Gifts Ungiven
 Hinder
 Peer through Depths
 Wear Away
 Kokusho, the Evening Star
 Kuro, Pitlord
 Unglued
 Timmy, Power Gamer
 Goblin Tutor
 Unhinged
 Rare-B-Gone
 Uktabi Kong
 Yet Another Aether Vortex
 AWOL
 "Ach Hans, Run"
 Gleemax
 World-Bottling Kit
 Blast from the Past
 Richard Garfield, Ph.D.
 Promo
 Voidmage Apprentice
 Disenchant
 Chronicles
 Arcades Sabboth
 Nicol Bolas
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 Kicking you in the ovaries since 1975.
 
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						| VGB | 
								|  | « Reply #16 on: January 10, 2005, 09:23:51 pm » |  | 
 
 WTF.  Mist Dragon is like a top 20 pick in my deck.  It's ridic and impossible to kill. Now that I think about it some more, that is probably an undeserved low rating - but I will let you in on my analysis: Evasion + a beefy creature makes for an automatic inclusion, as long as the drawback isn't too heinous (see Devouring Strossus, etc., for an example of a great creature with too terrible a drawback).  The beefier the creature the better the rating; 4/4 is at the bottom of the P/T rung considering the other flying untargetables such as Quicksilver Dragon (sorta), Morphling,  and Greater Morphling. What made me detract from the overral score is the fact that phasing removes it from play, thus it isn't available as a blocker/attacker until your next turn - and there might be quite a few turns in the interim where an untargetable creature might have been strictly superior in the same scenario.  Any of the Masticores on the table render it useless as well. The fact it is  un-wrathable, though, is something I really didn't factor for, so I will revise my rating for it.  If I am wrong about any other cards, feel free to correct me either here or via PM. Eventually I hope to make the list more user friendly with links, too, if anybody would ever get around to answering my BBcode questions :/ |  
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						| Triple_S 
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								|  | « Reply #17 on: January 12, 2005, 04:58:49 pm » |  | 
 
 Survival as a 3?  I think not.  You devote an entire draft strategy to Survival if you get it early in the draft and its never dead.  Worst case is you thaw all of your bad creatures out of your deck and you end up with your best creature in your hand.  That is some good. |  
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						| VGB | 
								|  | « Reply #18 on: January 12, 2005, 05:22:24 pm » |  | 
 
 It certainly deserves better, but I gave it a low rating for a reason - functionally, it's like an Aladdin's Lamp for creatures only.  Its drawback is that it makes you wait an entire turn to reap it's benefits, since the only playable insta-creature in T4 is Mystic Snake (barring you have Quicksilver Amulet/Johnny in play).  Thus you get a huge bullseye on your forehead with no way to retaliate, unless you have some sort of combo in place.  It can also suck against graveyard removal.
 It also has great synergy with animation effects such as Twilight's Call/Living Death/Patriarch's Bidding, and critters such as Undead Gladiator, though, so I will bump up the rating a couple of smidges.
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						| Jacob Orlove 
								Official Time Traveller of TMD 
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								|  | « Reply #19 on: January 12, 2005, 06:08:23 pm » |  | 
 
 Its drawback is that it makes you wait an entire turn to reap it's benefits Glory. Also, Chainer or Graverobber. And Illusionary Mask. Survival is really good.  Mist Dragon is unkillable, save Mindslaver. That's amazingly good. |  
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 May my soul be humble and forgiving to all.
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						| Sanity_XIV | 
								|  | « Reply #20 on: January 12, 2005, 06:17:20 pm » |  | 
 
 My Type 4 Cube:
 Core Sets:
 
 Nevinyrral's Disk
 Bloodshot Cyclops
 Swords to Plowshares
 Control Magic
 Obliterate
 Spell Blast
 Temporal Adept
 Gravedigger
 Jayemdae Tome
 Aladdin's Ring
 Coercion
 Serra Angel
 Terror
 Remove Soul
 Balance
 Inspiration
 
 Ice Age/Alliances/Homelands:
 
 Torture
 Feast or Famine
 Arcane Denial
 Tornado
 Stormbind
 Gorilla Shaman
 Exile
 Reprisal
 Pyrokinesis
 
 Mirage/Visions/Weatherlight:
 
 Ophidian
 Ray of Command
 Dark Banishing
 
 Tempest/Stronghold/Exodus:
 
 Spike Hatcher
 Winds of Rath
 Forbid
 Desertion
 Tortured Existence
 Evacuation
 Diabolic Edict
 
 Urza's Block:
 
 False Prophet
 Radiant's Judgment
 Palinchron
 Karn, Silver Golem
 
 Masques/Nemesis/Prophecy:
 
 Foil
 Mageta the Lion
 Flowstone Slide
 Counterspell
 Forced March
 Story Circle
 
 Odyssey/Torment/Judgment:
 
 Repel
 Crush of Wurms
 Second Thoughts
 Cabal Surgeon
 Fervent Denial
 Mindslicer
 Scrivener
 Aboshan, Cephalid Emperor
 Ember Shot
 Ghastly Demise
 Anarchist
 Moment's Peace
 Cease-Fire
 Liquify
 Cognivore
 Testament of Faith
 Cultural Exchange
 Lieutenant Kirtar
 Cephalid Constable
 
 Invasion/Planeshift/Apocalypse:
 
 Dismantling Blow
 Confound
 Metathran Aerostat (The Bomb!)
 Reckless Spite
 Restock
 Hanna, Ship's Navigator
 Reviving Vapors
 Spite/Malice
 Armored Guardian
 Standard Bearer
 Exclude
 Jilt
 Prophetic Bolt
 Nightscape Battlemage
 Phyrexian Gargantua
 Pernicious Deed
 Desolation Giant
 Kavu Climber
 Terminate
 Suffocating Blast
 Hobble
 Aura Blast
 Planeswalker's Scorn
 Gaea's Herald
 Bog Down
 Dromar's Charm
 Coalition Honor Guard
 Manacles of Decay
 Orim's Touch
 Penumbra Wurm
 Thicket Elemental
 Probe
 Void
 Spinal Embrace
 
 Onslaught/Legions/Scourge:
 
 Mischievous Quanar
 Voidmage Apprentice
 Havoc Demon
 Reaping the Graves
 Insurrection
 Hundroog (Hundroooooooooooooooog! Kind of an inside joke)
 Blatant Thievery
 Wing Shards
 Root Elemental
 Decree of Annhilation (Topdeck mode!)
 Essence Fracture
 Break Asunder
 Starstorm
 Future Sight
 Willbender
 Dispersing Orb
 Crowd Favorites
 Imperial hellkite
 Cruel Revival
 Dispersal Shield
 Smokespew Invoker
 Chromeshell Crab
 Bane of the Living
 Aphetto Exterminator
 Skinthinner
 Grip of Chaos
 Rush of Knowledge
 Echo Tracer
 Decree of Painn
 Decree of Silence
 Accelerated Mutation
 Clone
 Gigapede
 Mythic Proportions (Winds of Rath combo!)
 Swat
 Dirge of Dread
 Oblation
 
 Mirrodin/Darksteel/Fifth Dawn
 
 Furnace Dragon
 Door to Nothingness
 Turn the Tables
 Betrayal of Flesh
 Soul Foundry
 Quicksilver Elemental
 Lightning Greaves
 Promise of Power
 Viridian Shaman
 Woebearer
 tower of Fortunes
 Beacon of Destruction
 Purge
 Soul Nova
 Assert Authority
 Thought Prison (Duress ++)
 Vedalken Orrery
 Darksteel Gargoyle
 Soulscour
 Fatespinner
 Pentabus
 Mind's Eye
 Beacon of Tomorrows
 One Dozen Eyes
 Temporal Cascade (Like Mind Twist, but different.)
 Lumengrid Augur
 Luminous Angel
 Silent Arbiter
 Tower of Eons
 Altar of Shadows
 Thought Courier
 Altar's Light
 Grab the Reins
 Reiver Demon
 Vex
 Creeping Mold
 Cosmic Larva (a.k.a. THE BALLOOOOON!)
 Living Hive
 Arc-Slogger
 Crystal Shard
 Detonate
 Barter in Blood
 
 Champions of Kamigawa:
 
 Honden of Infinite Rage
 Seizan, Perverter of Truth
 Masako the Humorless
 Soulblast
 Pull Under
 Nezumi Graverobber
 Hinder
 Squelch
 Ryusei, the Falling Star
 Petals of Insight
 Reweave
 Myojin of Life's Web
 Otherworldly Journey
 Consuming Vortex
 Rend Flesh
 Glacial Ray
 Kiku, Night's Flower
 Kodama of the North Tree
 Hold the Line
 Kuro, Pitlord
 Mindblaze
 Konda, Lord of Eiganjo
 Honden of Life's Web
 Reciprocate
 Myojin of Seeing Winds
 Blind with Anger
 Pain Kami
 Blood Rites
 Mystic Restraints
 Honden of Cleansing Fire
 Honden of Seeing Winds
 The Unspeakable
 Befoul
 Reverse the Sands
 Thoughtbind
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						| Smmenen 
								Guest
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								|  | « Reply #21 on: January 13, 2005, 12:39:40 am » |  | 
 
 Survival as a 3?  I think not.  You devote an entire draft strategy to Survival if you get it early in the draft and its never dead.  Worst case is you thaw all of your bad creatures out of your deck and you end up with your best creature in your hand.  That is some good. I'm going to have to agree with Shane here.  Intuition and Gifts are insane, and Survival is sick.  There are too many sick combos to even name (just think Cauldren Dance and that's just the beginning). |  
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						| The M.E.T.H.O.D 
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								|  | « Reply #22 on: January 13, 2005, 01:54:01 am » |  | 
 
 Anyone make up any cards for their t4 stacks? Ive made up like 2 that are fun. |  
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						| rvs | 
								|  | « Reply #23 on: January 13, 2005, 05:49:56 am » |  | 
 
 Anyone make up any cards for their t4 stacks? Ive made up like 2 that are fun. It might be cool to use some Card Creation Forum Cards. I guess next time I see Bram I'll have to force him to make some cards for me   |  
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 Team ISP: And as a finishing touch, god created The Dutch!
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						| VGB | 
								|  | « Reply #24 on: January 14, 2005, 08:58:24 am » |  | 
 
 Anyone make up any cards for their t4 stacks? Ive made up like 2 that are fun. Praytell, what are they?  So far the only one in this thread is the one I suggest on the first page, which might be worded incorrectly or overpowered. |  
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						| Jacob Orlove 
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								|  | « Reply #25 on: January 27, 2005, 12:57:45 am » |  | 
 
 Here's a couple cards I've made:   |  
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 May my soul be humble and forgiving to all.
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						| Pyromaniac | 
								|  | « Reply #26 on: January 28, 2005, 04:58:49 pm » |  | 
 
 One of the 2 Type 4 stacks of ISP (yes, Rudy has the other one)
 Counters
 
 Absorb
 Arcane Denial
 Assert Authority
 Counterspell
 Decree of Silence
 Deflection
 Desertion
 Discocombulate
 Dismiss
 Dissipate
 Dromar's Charm
 Ertai, Wizard Adept
 Ertai's Meddling
 Fervent Denial
 Foil
 Forbid
 Hinder
 Last Word
 Memory Lapse
 Spell Blast
 Spelljack
 Thwart
 Time Stop
 Undermine
 Voidmage Prodigy
 
 Wrath Effects
 
 Akroma's Vengeance
 Balance
 Balancing Act
 Barter in Blood
 Decree of Annihilation
 Decree of Pain
 Devastation
 Dregs of Sorrow
 Dwarven Catapult
 Evacuation
 Flowstone Slide
 Forced March
 Inferno
 Innocent Blood
 Jokulhaups
 Kirtar's Wrath
 March of Souls
 Nevinyrral's Disk
 Obliterate
 Pernicious Deed
 Plague Wind
 Pox
 Retribution of the Meek
 Rout
 Savage Twister
 Soulscour
 Starstorm
 Tsabo's Decree
 Wrath of God
 
 Card Advantage
 
 Aladdin's Lamp
 Allied Strategies
 Ancestral Memories
 Arcanis, the Omnipotent
 Armistice
 Book of Rass
 Cabal Conditioning
 Capsize
 Citanul Flute
 Fact or Fiction
 Gifts Ungiven
 Inheritance
 Intuition
 Legacy Weapon
 Opportunity
 Planar Portal
 Promise of Power
 Scroll Rack
 Skeletal Scrying
 Thran Tome
 Tower of Fortunes
 Urza's Blueprints
 Whispers of the Muse
 Yawgmoth's Agenda
 Yawgmoth's Bargain
 
 Utility Creatures
 
 Ali From Cairo
 Anger
 Bane of the Living
 Bone Shredder
 Chainer, Dementia Master
 Chromeshell Crab
 Desolation Giant
 Duplicant
 False Prophet
 Flowstone Overseer
 Genesis
 Gerrard Capashen
 Glarecaster
 Glory
 Gorilla Shaman
 Hisoka, Minamo Sensei
 Hoverguard Sweepers
 Karmic Guide
 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
 Locust Swarm
 Mageta The Lion
 Memnarch
 Metathran Aerostat
 Mindless Automaton
 Mindwarper
 Myojin of Night's Reach
 Myojin of Seeing Winds
 Mystic Snake
 Nekrataal
 Nezumi Graverobber
 Phage, the Untouchable
 Plaguebearer
 Royal Assassin
 Rubinia Soulsinger
 Skinthinner
 Smokespew Invoker
 Sunscape Battlemage
 Timmy, Power Gamer
 Vampiric Dragon
 Vesuvan Doppelganger
 Viridian Shaman
 Voidmage Apprentice
 Volrath's Shapeshifter
 Wonder
 
 Beatsticks
 
 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
 Angel of Retribution
 Arcades Sabboth
 Autumn Willow
 Avatar of Woe
 Bloodfire Colossus
 Bosh, Iron Golem
 Bringer of the Black Dawn
 Bringer of the Blue Dawn
 Bringer of the Red Dawn
 Cockatrice
 Cognivore
 Colossus of Sardia
 Crush of Wurms
 Darksteel Colossus
 Draco
 Drifting Djinn
 Eternal Dragon
 Force of nature
 Furnace Dragon
 Gurzigost
 Havoc Demon
 Hunting Pack
 Hypnox
 Imperial Hellkite
 Iridescent Angel
 Jareth, Leonine Titan
 Keiga, the Tide Star
 Kokusho, the Evening Star
 Krosan Cloudscraper
 Krosan Colossus
 Kuro, Pitlord
 Lhurgoyf
 Living Hive
 Magma Giant
 Mist Dragon
 Morphling
 Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
 Myojin of Cleansing Fire
 Myojin of Life's Web
 Nicol Bolas
 One Dozen Eyes
 Pentavus
 Penumbra Wurm
 Phantom Nishoba
 Phyrexian Colossus
 Phyrexian Processor
 Plated Slagwurm
 Platinum Angel
 Pristine Angel
 Rainbow Efreet
 Reiver Demon
 Reya Dawnbringer
 Rock Basilisk
 Root Elemental
 Rorix Bladewing
 Scion of Darkness
 Serra Avatar
 Silent Specter
 Silvos, Rogue Elemental
 Spirit of the Night
 Thorn Elemental
 Tidal Kraken
 Tornado Elemental
 Triskelion
 Trolls of Tel-Jihad
 Verdant Force
 Visara the Dreadful
 Volrath the Fallen
 Weatherseed Treefolk
 Worldgorger Dragon
 Xanthid Statue
 Yosei, the Morning Star
 
 Utility cards
 
 Aladdin's Ring
 Animate Dead
 Beacon of Immortality
 Beacon of Unrest
 Binding Grasp
 Blatant Thievery
 Brand of Ill Omen
 Bribery
 Captain's Maneuver
 Cauldron Dance
 Confiscate
 Corpse Dance
 Dance of the Dead
 Dawn of the Dead
 Delerium
 Door to Nothingness
 Eye for an Eye
 Fires of Yavimaya
 Fireshrieker
 Flood
 Forcefield
 Grab the Reins
 Helm of Obedience
 Holistic Wisdom
 Icy Manipulator
 Insurrection
 Interdict
 Lightning Greaves
 Maze of Ith
 Mindslaver
 Miraculous Recovery
 Necromancy
 Rapid Decay
 Ray of Command
 Reite Lantern
 Reverse the Sands
 Savage Beating
 Shallow Grave
 Spinal Embrace
 Stifle
 Story Circle
 Tainted Pact
 Thieves' Auction
 Time Stretch
 Tooth and Nail
 Tormod's Crypt
 Tower of Eons
 Turn the Tables
 Twilight's Call
 Vedalkan Orrery
 Volrath's Stronghold
 Yavimaya's Embrace
 
 Spot Removal
 
 Afterlife
 Altar of Shadows
 Annihilate
 Artifact Mutation
 Ashes to Ashes
 Betrayal of Flesh
 Chainer's Edict
 Chaos Orb
 Chastise
 Coffin Purge
 Creeping Mold
 Cremate
 Dark Banishing
 Desert Twister
 Disenchant
 Dismantling Blow
 Divine Offering
 Dust to Dust
 Engineered Explosives
 Hull Breach
 Murderous Spoils
 Naturalize
 Order/Chaos
 Orim's Thunder
 Parallax Wave
 Predator, Flagship
 Rack and Ruin
 Rend Flesh
 Swords to Plowshares
 Terminate
 Tornado
 Urza's Rage
 Vindicate
 Wing Shards
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 It's hard to be religious, when certain people don`t get incinerated by lightning...
 On another note, while Ancestral is clearly very very good, having it in your opening is hand is not. - AmbivalentDuck
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						| VGB | 
								|  | « Reply #27 on: January 28, 2005, 05:19:45 pm » |  | 
 
 Thanks for posting the cards, Jacob, and the list, Pyromaniac. For reference, this  is what my posts on the previous page would look like if phpBB allowed. |  
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						| Lost In Admiration | 
								|  | « Reply #28 on: February 02, 2005, 07:38:35 pm » |  | 
 
 I've been told that we have the most INSANE type four stack around.  That could be because most of the thing is foiled out or because we play with so many infinite effects.  I'll let you decide. Without further ado here's the Team GWS stack (It's pretty key to note that we play with alternate casting costs of any sort as not counting for your spell for the turn, this includes Morph, Prismatic, FoW or Misdirection, Affinity (not quite an alternate but...), and Flashback):
 Total: 240 Cards
 
 Guys that attack for a shitload: 12
 Avarax
 Bladewing the Risen
 Consumptive GOO
 Cromat
 Dauthi Mercenary
 Dragon Tyrant
 Furnace Spirit
 Goblin Taskmaster
 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
 Snarling Undorak
 Two-headed Dragon
 Warbreak Trumpeter
 
 Free Men: 16
 Avatar of Woe (we count this as an alt if there are 10 guys)
 Bane of the Living
 Bringer of the Black Dawn
 Bringer of the Blue Dawn
 Bringer of the Red Dawn
 Bringer of the White Dawn
 Draco (with a land)
 Echo Tracer
 Furnace Dragon
 Imperial Hellkite
 Krosan Cloudscraper
 Root Elemental
 Skinthinner
 Voidmage Apprentice
 Voidmage Prodigy
 Willbender
 
 Other guys: 46
 Ancient Hydra
 Anger
 Arcanis the Omnipotent
 Armored Guardian
 Bloodfire Colossus
 Bosh, Iron Golem
 Chainer, Dementia Master
 Crowd Favorites
 Crush of Wurms
 Darksteel Colossus
 Desolation Giant
 Eight-and-a-half-tails
 Flowstone Overseer
 Genesis
 Glarecaster
 Glory
 Hisoka, Minamo Sensei
 Hypnox
 Johnny, Combo Player
 Keiga, the Tide Star
 Memnarch
 Mischievous Quanar (with limit to one copy PER SPELL)
 Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
 Myojin of Cleansing Fire
 Myojin of Life’s Web
 Myojin of Night’s Reach
 Mystic Snake
 Nezumi Winthefuckinggame
 Nieeeeecolllll BoaaaaLAS
 Penumbra Wurm
 Phage the Untouchable
 Phantom Nishoba
 Plated Slagwurm
 Reiver Demon
 Reya Dawnbringer
 Rorix Bladewing
 Scandalmonger
 Scion of Darkness (should be the prerelease guy)
 Smokespew Invoker
 Symbiotic Wurm
 Timmy, Power Gamer
 Verdant Force
 Viridian Zealot
 Visara the Dreadful
 Volrath the Fallen
 Withered Wretch
 
 Creature Removal Spells: 35
 Afterlife
 Agonizing Demise
 Annihilate
 Backlash
 Barter in Blood
 Betrayal of Flesh
 Chastise
 Decree of Pain
 Delirium
 Diabolic Edict
 Dominate
 Dregs of Sorrow
 Dwarven Catapult
 Evacuation
 Exile
 Fevered Convulsions
 Fissure
 Grab the Reins
 Illuminate (YOU HAVE TO PLAY WITH THIS CARD)
 Innocent Blood
 Lethal Vapors
 Persuasion
 Plague Wind
 Planeswalker’s Scorn
 Predator, Flagship
 Rout
 Second Thoughts
 Slaughter
 Spinal Embrace
 Starstorm
 Swords to Plowshares
 Task Mage Assembly
 Terminate
 Wing Shards
 Yavimaya’s Embrace
 
 Artifact/Enchantment Removal: 8
 Abolish
 Altar’s Light
 Artifact Mutation
 Bash to Bits
 Dismantling Blow
 Orim’s Thunder
 Ray of Distortion
 Smash
 
 Universal Removal: 11
 Akroma’s Vengeance
 Blatant Thievery
 Capsize
 Confiscate
 Crosis’s Charm
 Legacy Weapon
 Obliterate
 Oblivion Stone
 Pernicious Deed
 Recoil
 Soulscour
 
 Counterspells: 26
 Absorb
 Assert Authority
 Counterspell
 Decree of Silence
 Desertion
 Discombobulate
 Dismiss
 Dissipate
 Dromar’s Charm
 Ertai’s Meddling
 Exclude
 Fervent Denial
 Fold into Aether
 Forbid
 Force of Will
 Last Word
 Remove Soul
 Rewind
 Spell Blast
 Spelljack
 Spite/Malice
 Suffocating Blast
 Time Stop
 Undermine
 Vex
 Volcanic Geyser (I put this here, as a counterspell)
 
 Damage Prevention/Redirection: 15
 Captain’s Maneuver
 Deflection
 Honorable Passage
 Invulnerability
 Misdirection
 Moment’s Peace
 Panacea
 Pentagram of the Ages
 Reflect Damage
 Reverse Damage (I can’t find a black boarder one, can ANYONE help?)
 Safeguard
 Samite Ministration
 Shunt
 Tangle
 Turn the Tables
 
 Tutor/Draw: 28
 Acquire
 Ancestral Recall
 Armistice
 Breakthough
 Citanul Flute
 Compulsion
 Concentrate
 Fact and/or Fiction
 Flash of Insight
 Future Sight
 Gifts Ungiven
 Mind’s Eye
 Opportunity
 Planar Portal
 Promise of Power
 Pulse of the Grid
 Read the Runes
 Reviving Vapors
 Rush of Knowledge
 Soothsaying
 Staff of Domination
 Survival of the Fittest
 Tooth and Nail
 Tower of Fortunes
 Treasure Trove
 Whisper’s of the Muse
 Wild Research
 Yawgmoth’s Bargain
 
 Graveyard Stuff: 13
 All Suns’ Dawn
 Beacon of Unrest
 Bosium Strip
 Cauldron Dance
 Corpse Dance
 Dawn of the Dead
 Holistic Wisdom
 Hymn of Rebirth
 Once More With Feeling
 Recoup
 Restock
 Twilight’s Call
 Yawgmoth’s Agenda
 
 Land: 6
 Arena
 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
 Kor Haven
 Maze of Ith
 Volrath’s Stronghold
 Winding Canyons
 
 Other Cards: 24
 Aladdin’s Ring
 Beacon of Destruction
 Beacon of Immortality
 Cabal Conditioning
 Door to Nothingness
 Dragon’s Breath
 Eureka
 Fist of Suns (easily the best card in the deck)
 Gleemax
 Inferno
 Insurrection
 Kaboom!
 Mindslaver
 Mirari
 Ornate Kanzashi
 Pyromancy
 Radiate
 Rocket Launcher
 Searing Wind
 Time Stretch
 Urza’s Rage
 Vedalken Orrery
 Who/What/When/Where/Why (no life limit)
 Yet Another Aether Vortex
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 Team GWS: Îχουμε πολλοί τ�?ελός παίζω |  |  | 
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						| giddygorgon | 
								|  | « Reply #29 on: February 02, 2005, 10:02:46 pm » |  | 
 
 Illuminate seems utterly ridiculous.  Kill a creature, a player, and draw any number of cards? I mean I understand it is the broken format, but still. |  
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 If you know of a place to play t1 in Salt Lake, PM me please! |  |  | 
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