R/G beats discussion

[prosbloom225]

The maindeck mutates are so good against shop, i wouldn't think about taking them out for naturalize.  Oath is going to oath no matter what you do, I don't even bother trying to destroy the oath.  Though shop is quite prevalant in the midwest, maybe thats why I like them so much.

[[supa_t(im)]]

I have a winning record against Oath because of Naturalize.  Yes, the matchup sucks, but I really don't want to make the deck WORSE against it by taking out the only thing that helps you.  Naturalize also helps against Stax and Workshop Aggro, so I'm not really seeing a problem.

I have also adjusted my creatures to include 4 mongrel and 4 walla.  They are just much better at the damage race than river boa.

[prosbloom225]

They're gonna counter naturalize, all 4 times be it the case.  They run 8+ counters, and multiple tutor spells.  Plus if you don't have naturalize the turn of oath, your screwed.  Better off to just acknowledge that oath is going to come into play turn 2 or 3 and its going to go active.  They only have to protect one part of their combo because orchard is not needed versus r/g beats.

[[supa_t(im)]]

They're gonna counter naturalize, all 4 times be it the case.  They run 8+ counters, and multiple tutor spells.  Plus if you don't have naturalize the turn of oath, your screwed.  Better off to just acknowledge that oath is going to come into play turn 2 or 3 and its going to go active.  They only have to protect one part of their combo because orchard is not needed versus r/g beats.

That is why you bait counters.  It is something you do with every other control deck, why would you not try to with this one?

You are basically saying that you should auto-scoop to Oath.  I will not acknowledge that their oath will activate on turn 3, I will make them fight for their Oath.  I guess we are gonna have to agree to disagree on this one, because Naturalize has saved by butt more than once, and I'm not planning on taking them out.

[prosbloom225]

You dont auto scoop, you just have to realize that akroma is going to get in play.  Shes not that hard to work around,  come on your beatdown, no match except fishdecking combo(tps, deathlong) is autoscoop.

[[supa_t(im)]]

You dont auto scoop, you just have to realize that akroma is going to get in play.  Shes not that hard to work around,  come on your beatdown, no match except fishdecking combo(tps, deathlong) is autoscoop.

Root maze and pyro pillar make combo not an autoscoop either.

What I like about naturalize, that even if they do counter it, you just sucked a counter (and possibly another card if they Mis'd or FoW) out of their hand so they won't be able to counter your beatdown.

The counter baiting works both ways.

[prosbloom225]

There isn't really anything to bait with that they would counter that I wouldnt want them to (god, that sounded wierd).

Yes root maze makes games 2 and 3 doable, but game 1 is a problem.

[[supa_t(im)]]

There isn't really anything to bait with that they would counter that I wouldnt want them to (god, that sounded wierd).

Yes root maze makes games 2 and 3 doable, but game 1 is a problem.

I think I know what you are saying, and if I'm right, then I would say that you have to weigh certain cards' priority.  They don't want that mongrel out when you have a fairly large hand, but they also don't want their Oath gone.  Besides, in my experience it isn't THAT hard to race Oath with a good aggressive hand.  I could be misunderstanding you though.

As for combo, I run maze and pillar MD, with null rod sided.  If that isn't enough to give me a chance games 1, 2 and possibly 3, then I don't know what will.  The only combo deck that I've had consistent trouble with is TPS, because it is more controllish.

But right now the conversation is degenerating into meaningless drabble.  I'm not sure we can discuss this deck much more, unless someone comes out with new tech, or a new configuration.

[jjong1]

This article is meant for the non-powered players. If you own any power nine card stop reading and press the back button. If you don’t, you lose 8 life.

    4 Mountain
    4 Wasteland
    1 Strip Mine
    2 Taiga
    4 Wooded Foothills
    3 Forest
    4 Treetop Village
    1 Mana Crypt

    4 Kird Ape
    4 Grim Lavamancer
    4 Gorilla Shaman
    4 Elvish Spirit Guide
    1 River Boa

    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Magma Jet

    4 Rancor
    4 Naturalize
    4 Root Maze

SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 4 Null Rod
SB: 4 Pithing Needle

This deck is meant to beat the full-powered dangerous meta-games of today’s Vintage. Here in the Netherlands, at the one and only Type 1 Friday Night Magic in the entire universe, rules a powered meta-game. This means paradise for Mox Monkey (Gorilla Shaman). I’ve got about twenty of them, each tournament I take other Shamans or else they become too fat. There are not only plenty moxes to eat, but there are also some decks to beat:

Good matchups:
Any control deck
Workshop based decks

Difficult matchups:
Oath

Auto-loss against:
Clerics

Those decks, except for the cleric deck, are present in my meta-game. I played a few FNM’s with it, scoring average (about 40%, pretty good for an unpowered deck in a powered environment). At big tournaments I like too see people laughing out loud, calling “Look, he plays Kird Ape!� I also like to see the look on my opponents face when my monkeys beat their Full-Overpowered Mean-deck Cherry-Oath or something like that. I like to play RG Beats.

So, I didn’t make this deck for the win, but mostly based on having fun. But, as long play-testing shows, it’s not a bad deck at all. I would recommend this to anyone who’s looking for a cheap, good and cool deck.

RG Beats is not an aggro deck. It is a Hate deck. I play on speed, but more important is the hate. But I hate hate. Love! Here are a few examples what some cards in this deck might love. Lightning Bolt loves Juggernauts. Gorilla Shaman loves any 0-mana artifact. Root Maze loves fetch-lands. Naturalize loves oath.

I made my choices, I tested it and tuned it again, and again, and again. I read many articles, on SCG, this site, German forums and play-tested on MWS, tournaments and casual play. I have no idea at all, what cards van make this deck better than it is in the current state.

Tips, questions, comments and compliments are more than welcome. I’d also like to see your version of R/G beats.

Thanks for reading!

Jelmer de Jong

[Rex_Kwan_Do]

blah blah blah moved to newbie

- (insert moderator name)

Please see rule #4, point C: http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/index.php?topic=18027.msg299973#msg299973
Verbal warning to you (NOT to the thread starter).

As for the thread, it gets merged with the preexisting RGbeats thread.

-Jacob