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Komatteru
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Joseiteki
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« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2005, 11:04:04 pm » |
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No big surprises on Extended.
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And11
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« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2005, 06:38:55 am » |
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I like the fact that ritual-fueled combo might have a comeback without unbanning Contract from Below as others suggested.  Hmmm, Mind over Matter. Does it have any potential at all? I really wish they would try unrestricting other cards such as Regrowth and FoF to see if they really are too powerful as a 4-of. But I guess they're too lazy @ WotC.  About the bannings of DotV and Vial, I really would've hoped that I could have played my old T2 deck in the upcoming extended season. Oh well... Later. |
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:--)
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doylehancock
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« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2005, 07:13:01 am » |
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if they unrestrict FOF gifts would explode!!
can you imagine going FOF, FOF, Gifts good god
that would be amazingly awesome.
I dont think they will ever unrestrict FOF but if they do I will defintely run 4. Shit tog could make a run again
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Team Sexboat: We will sex you up
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Ivantheterrible
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« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2005, 07:15:15 am » |
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About the bannings of DotV and Vial, I really would've hoped that I could have played my old T2 deck in the upcoming extended season. Oh well... vial was more because of goblins I think. Either way both affenity and Goblins will still be viable but this way non rock control has a fighting chance being able to counter threats again. And 4 FoF is to much. They have tried 4 Fof and it wasn't that long ago. It should stay on the restricted list. |
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alban
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« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2005, 07:30:06 am » |
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Anyone seeing any deck with Mind over Matter? I don't think something broken will happen, so they've made the right choice On 4x FoF: ..................... no comment |
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fishing all the way!  ze kird ape ahh ha ha
ze additional kird ape  ahh ha ha
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Dozer
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« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2005, 07:32:04 am » |
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No big surprises on Extended.
No big surprises at all, I'd say. Apart from Voltaic Key and maybe Entomb, there's not much left on the Vintage Restricted list they could un-restrict. I guess they are taking pieces off one at a time, and FoF will surely not be among them. Maybe it's just me, but I really like the B&R list right now! Dozer |
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a swashbuckling ninja Member of Team CAB, dozercat on MTGO MTG.com coverage reporter (Euro GPs) -- on hiatus, thanks to uni Associate Editor of www.planetmtg |
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49 Cents
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Von Dutch
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« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2005, 07:41:26 am » |
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Agreed. Next time another piece will be Unrestricted I guess. But I'm not sure about Entomb. It would make Budget Dragon pretty good IMO.
FoF will never be Unrestricted, that would just be insane all over again.
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Team TDC: The man with a new idea is a fool. Unless the idea turns out to be a succes. www.BeNeLegacy.nl - For all your Legacy |
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Luiggi
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Fear me, if you dare.
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« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2005, 09:14:42 am » |
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Re: Mind Over Matter - is it possible to have a deck something like old Academy decks, since we have access to 3-4 MoMa, 1 Grim Monolith, 1 Sol Ring, 1 Mana Vault, 1 Mana Crypt, 1 Academy, and as many copies as we want of Stroke of Genius and/or Braingeyser? Maybe something with Academy Rector and Cabal Therapy, so we can put MoMa directly into play? I'm not sure it will be competitive, but it might have potential...
Luiggi
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"I saw endless fields of workshops... They were harvesting fish, using them as batteries. [...] If Workshops are the machines and Fish are the humans, G/R Beats is Neo, ." |
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Xenoben187
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« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2005, 09:21:36 am » |
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Why put MoM into play when you could just put bargain into play and win?
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Petey4335
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« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2005, 09:26:34 am » |
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Grim Tutor is unrestricted still? I thought the community already determined it was broken as a 4 of already.
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Luiggi
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« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2005, 09:36:25 am » |
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Why put MoM into play when you could just put bargain into play and win? A very good point... I dunno, for the sake of innovation, ? I agree that there are probably better things to do, but who knows... Luiggi |
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"I saw endless fields of workshops... They were harvesting fish, using them as batteries. [...] If Workshops are the machines and Fish are the humans, G/R Beats is Neo, ." |
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rvs
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« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2005, 11:05:24 am » |
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Boohoo, Rude Awakening is banned in Prismatic :/ - Now I have to rely on Early Harvest for land untapping to power my Desires  |
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I can break chairs, therefore I am greater than you.
Team ISP: And as a finishing touch, god created The Dutch!
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Lou
Tournament Organizers
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'it never got weird enough for me'
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« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2005, 01:48:02 pm » |
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I am suprised that no one has made any Gifts comments. I don't think it is restriction worthy at this time, but I did think there would be a little bit of discussion concerning it.
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Team Meandeck @louchristopher
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arj
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« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2005, 01:58:26 pm » |
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I am suprised that no one has made any Gifts comments. I don't think it is restriction worthy at this time, but I did think there would be a little bit of discussion concerning it.
Gift decks are by no means dominating vintage tournaments so why restrict it? |
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Lou
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'it never got weird enough for me'
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« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2005, 02:00:15 pm » |
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I am suprised that no one has made any Gifts comments. I don't think it is restriction worthy at this time, but I did think there would be a little bit of discussion concerning it.
Gift decks are by no means dominating vintage tournaments so why restrict it? Did you read my post? I said, "I don't think it is restriction worthty at this time." |
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Team Meandeck @louchristopher
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Jank Golem
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« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2005, 03:19:23 pm » |
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First of all I admit I was not playing when Fof was unrestricted. Is fact or fiction really stronger then gifts though?
Gifts Ungiven 3U
Instant
Search your library for four cards with different names and reveal them. Target opponent chooses two of those cards. Put the chosen cards into your graveyard and the rest into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
Fact or Fiction 3U
Instant
Reveal the top five cards of your library. An opponent separates those cards into two piles. Put one pile into your hand and the other into your graveyard.
They both cost the same and both are instant speed. Fact or Fiction reveals 5 cards while gifts reveals 4. Gifts piles must be seperated 2 and 2 while FOf piles can have any seperation. Gifts allows you to search for the cards but Fof does not. It seems to me that Gifts is more powerful then Fof. The ability to search for cards and put them into your hand seems easily better then just drawing random cards. I do not think we can have both these cards legal however, one should be restricted the other should not. Gifts would become too powerful with both of them. It is true however that gifts is not incredibly amazing in its current state, so maybe by restricteing gifts and unrestricting Fof you would be killing a deck that need not be killed. If you are argueing about which is better though, the answer to me is clearly Gifts Ungiven.
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islanderboi10
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"We Got There!"
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« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2005, 03:39:19 pm » |
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Well, I guess it's timeto pul out Grim Long.
I think Grim Tutor is like a bad Demonic Tutor....so why would it not be restricted?
Well, I'm going to go play with my 5 Demonic Tutor deck.
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Team OCC- "We Got There!"
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arj
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« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2005, 03:44:44 pm » |
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I am suprised that no one has made any Gifts comments. I don't think it is restriction worthy at this time, but I did think there would be a little bit of discussion concerning it.
Gift decks are by no means dominating vintage tournaments so why restrict it? Did you read my post? I said, "I don't think it is restriction worthty at this time." Sorry about that. Guess we all agree then |
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NastyNate
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« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2005, 03:58:02 pm » |
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Hey, as long as the DCI keeps up like they have with vintage, I'm quite happy. Little by little they can remove the weaker cards from the list; we're not going to play with them anyway, so there is no rush. Fact or fiction however, is not one of those "weaker," cards that will be coming off any time soon. Voltaic key will probably be next.
I don't see gifts getting nixed any time soon either. Yes it is broken, and fetches some of the most degenerate cards in the format, but it requires decks to be built around it, unlike fact or fiction, which is just universally good in any blue based control deck. Not every broken card in vintage needs restriction; the format just needs a healthy balance of broken-ness, which is what we currently have.
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Luiggi
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Fear me, if you dare.
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« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2005, 03:59:16 pm » |
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Well, I guess it's timeto pul out Grim Long.
I think Grim Tutor is like a bad Demonic Tutor....so why would it not be restricted?
Well, I'm going to go play with my 5 Demonic Tutor deck.
I remember earlier this year, when Wizards first announced that Portal would eventually become legal, Smmenen and others were discussing the viability of GrimLong here, and at least he believed that the deck, while better than DeathLong, was still not that good, and that there was no way it would lead to Grim Tutor being restricted. He wrote an article on GrimLong for StarCity, too (Premium, I believe). I, for one, agree with you that it might really be viable, and I love combo decks so I'll definitely give it a shot. Maybe it's time to start up that discussion on the boards again? Luiggi |
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"I saw endless fields of workshops... They were harvesting fish, using them as batteries. [...] If Workshops are the machines and Fish are the humans, G/R Beats is Neo, ." |
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Necrologia
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« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2005, 04:03:20 pm » |
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I think Grim Tutor is like a bad Demonic Tutor....so why would it not be restricted? Um, you said it yourself, because it's a bad Demonic Tutor. Diminishing Returns is a bad Timetwister, while Concentrate is a bad Ancestral Recall. Cards aren't restricted because they resemble broken cards, but because they are in fact, broken themselves. Obviously Grim Tutor is better than Concentrate, but my point still stands. I look forward to giving Grim combo a shot, and if it really does prove to be too much for the meta, the DCI will just step in in 3 months. Honestly the worst I can see it doing is adding another viable deck to the format though, so no complaints here. |
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« Last Edit: September 01, 2005, 04:39:56 pm by Necrologia »
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This space for rent, reasonable rates
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Moxlotus
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Where the fuck are my pants?
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« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2005, 04:10:54 pm » |
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I think Grim Long will be a deck that can compete. It won't be the fucking nutz however. Adding another viable deck to the metagame is a good thing I think.
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NWI Team_Zilla
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« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2005, 04:53:26 pm » |
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Did you guys notice that they didn't Restrict/Ban Zodiac Dragon? Unless they have changed the wording, it will be BROKEN! Does someone know if they changed the wording??
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-Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
-Many folks know how to say nothing.
Few know when.
-"The believer is happy. The doubter is wise."
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Xman
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Something Clever Goes Here.
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« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2005, 05:00:14 pm » |
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Did you guys notice that they didn't Restrict/Ban Zodiac Dragon? Unless they have changed the wording, it will be BROKEN! Does someone know if they changed the wording??
Original Wording If Zodiac Dragon is put into your graveyard, you may return Zodiac Dragon to your hand. New Wording When Zodiac Dragon is put into your graveyard from play, you may return it to your hand. |
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SCG P9 Indy - 21st (5-2-1)
Living back in a world where Vintage is played. YEA!
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Whatever Works
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« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2005, 05:48:24 pm » |
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Hurray! RTS now can officially turn into GTS and not suck anymore!
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Team Retribution
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Xyre
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« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2005, 08:12:43 pm » |
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I still don't understand why Imperial Seal took the fall over Grim Tutor. Imperial Seal is a tutor, but you won't get the card until the next turn without a draw spell. Grim Tutor costs more, but three mana is still reasonable for a good card in T1 (see the Wishes). Imperial Seal just will not be played, particularly while Grim is unrestricted.
Also, without Academy, the four blue mana in Mind over Matter now really hurts. You can't do anything crazy with Stroke and Braingeyser if you can't get the origninal four blue. That's overly excessive. WotC chose an excellent time to bring it back.
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Team Duncan Anderson - "Now who's going to play Ichorid? Anybody?"
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prosbloom225
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« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2005, 08:25:16 pm » |
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No big surprises on Extended.
No big surprises at all, I'd say. Apart from Voltaic Key and maybe Entomb, there's not much left on the Vintage Restricted list they could un-restrict. I guess they are taking pieces off one at a time, and FoF will surely not be among them. Maybe it's just me, but I really like the B&R list right now! Dozer Entomb should still be restricted. Giving dragon another fetch for dragon isn't really to helpful to the format. MOM isn't worth shit. The only reason its up there is because of the old T2 academy decks. Don't really see it making a comeback. |
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PipOC
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« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2005, 01:24:39 am » |
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Entomb should still be restricted. Giving dragon another fetch for dragon isn't really to helpful to the format.
That's not what everyone should be concerned about with entomb. Consistently tutoring out a strip lock for B mana and a crucible isn't something I'd look at lightly. Dragon probably wouldn't use it at all given that most lists don't even run a full set of intuition. |
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dicemanx
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« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2005, 01:44:04 am » |
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That's not what everyone should be concerned about with entomb. Consistently tutoring out a strip lock for B mana and a crucible isn't something I'd look at lightly. Dragon probably wouldn't use it at all given that most lists don't even run a full set of intuition.
Not only would Dragon use Entomb 100%, it would degenerate games into mindless stupidity. Entomb needs to stay restricted. |
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Without cultural sanction, most or all our religious beliefs and rituals would fall into the domain of mental disturbance. ~John F. Schumaker
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