Bram
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« on: November 16, 2005, 06:50:16 pm » |
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It's come to my attention that the name Vintage Newbie Forum is considered condescending. This is not intentional. Threads moved there do not imply there starters are n00bs, just that the deck is not quite up to par.
So were thinking of changing the name. I've put up several options, but suggestions are welcome.
We'd like to know what name you guys feel best convey the forum's intent.
Incidentally, 'irregular' is used in a sence of 'atypical' or as in 'not belonging to a permanent, organized force.'
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<j_orlove> I am semi-religious
<BR4M> I like that. which half of god do you believe in?
<j_orlove> the half that tells me how to live my life
<j_orlove> but not the half that tells me how others should live theirs
R.I.P. Rudy van Soest a.k.a. MoreFling
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JuJu
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« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2005, 06:54:19 pm » |
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Novice has a much more... professional look of ranking the members.
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�We Seek The Ring...�
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[23:46] Smmenen: that's like saying
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forests failed you
De Stijl
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Venerable Saint
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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2005, 06:54:38 pm » |
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I like novice.
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Grand Prix Boston 2012 Champion
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Matt
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« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2005, 06:55:23 pm » |
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I like 'novice' but failing that, "initiate" is good.
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http://www.goodgamery.com/pmo/c025.GIF---------------------- SpenceForHire2k7: Its unessisary SpenceForHire2k7: only spelled right SpenceForHire2k7: <= world english teach evar ---------------------- noitcelfeRmaeT {Team Hindsight}
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SpencerForHire
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« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2005, 06:55:29 pm » |
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Irregular makes me think "deformed" vintage. Â Novice seems really professional as was said before.
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Team Technology - Strictly better than our previous name.
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Bram
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« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2005, 06:57:07 pm » |
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Added Vintage Initiate. You can change your votes if you want.
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<j_orlove> I am semi-religious
<BR4M> I like that. which half of god do you believe in?
<j_orlove> the half that tells me how to live my life
<j_orlove> but not the half that tells me how others should live theirs
R.I.P. Rudy van Soest a.k.a. MoreFling
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PacmanXSA
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« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2005, 07:00:06 pm » |
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I'm a fan of initiate.
Pac
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Messing with Michiganders since 2002!
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Meddling Mike
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« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2005, 07:02:00 pm » |
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I'd go for initiate first, with novice in a close second
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Meddling Mike posts so loudly that nobody can get a post in edgewise.
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Machinus
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« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2005, 07:07:12 pm » |
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I actually think Newbie is still the best name. Novice and Beginner are good too.
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Jacob Orlove
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« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2005, 07:25:32 pm » |
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Vintage Improvement Forum option added.
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Team Meandeck: O Lord,
Guard my tongue from evil and my lips from speaking guile.
To those who slander me, let me give no heed.
May my soul be humble and forgiving to all.
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TracerBullet
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« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2005, 08:00:03 pm » |
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Trash man=/= Civil Waste Engineer
Keep it as it is. Condescending or no, I think something like Vintage Improvement forum is even more degrading because it's like telling the retarded kids they're just special.
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The room is on fire, and she's fixin' her hair...
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vartemis
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« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2005, 08:00:41 pm » |
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Well I doubt it will get named "what the hell was I thinking?", so I voted for Novice.
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Whatever Works
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« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2005, 09:10:22 pm » |
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I like vintage newbie... why make a change to be socially correct... This is worse then the new rule in amherst that I have been hearing recently... The highschool is no longer allowed to call 9th grade student "freshmen" because it is I guess degrading, and biased toward women. You got to be kidding me! The general message being there are times when people can become to socially correct.
Vintage newbie forum is called that for a very good reason, and I have yet to see any reason (looking at the content) or by theory that makes me think otherwise.
However, if the title has to be changed I like Novice. The Iniate 1 reminds me of WoW... and it might set off some mental time bomb that could warp half the readers of the forum to go make an elf iniate etc.
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Ephraim
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« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2005, 09:21:38 pm » |
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Trash man=/= Civil Waste Engineer
Keep it as it is. Condescending or no, I think something like Vintage Improvement forum is even more degrading because it's like telling the retarded kids they're just special.
It is true that a trash man is not a civil waste engineer, but that's because he isn't actually engineering anything. It would be perfectly accurate, however, to call a trash man a "waste management agent." Just because a title uses fancy words doesn't mean that it is inaccurate. In that regard, the connotation of the words is important. A novice is somebody who is new, but is learning and should be accorded the respect that a student deserves. A newbie is pesky, ignorant, and an outsider to the community. |
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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Godder
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« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2005, 10:06:32 pm » |
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While Newbie has pejorative connotations, novice is simply a nice way of saying Newbie, which effectively makes it a euphemism. Improvement feels the closest fit for what the board is actually for i.e. improving players and decks. Speaking of which, the description of the Forum, while nice, doesn't actually fit in with the practice of how the two open Vintage forums operate, so I suggest we come up with a more accurate blurb while we're at it.
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« Last Edit: November 16, 2005, 10:10:13 pm by Godder »
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That's what I like about you, Laura - you're always willing to put my neck on the line. |
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Demonic Attorney
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« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2005, 10:53:41 pm » |
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Vintage Novice Forum seems like it best represents what the forum is there for.
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Bram
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« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2005, 03:59:57 am » |
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it's like telling the retarded kids they're just special. and why make a change to be socially correct... Just so you know, I don't give a flying fascist fuck about being politically correct. This is about preventing problems. There's no sense in pissing off new members (who could otherwise become productive elements of these boards) if a simple namechange to one that signifies the forum's intent just as well (or better!), could prevent that. Think of it like this: that way, us mods don't have to clean up after a basic user that's gone berserk because he thinks we called him a n00b. It's pure self-interest. Also: thefact that there's not a 'no change' option means that no change is not an option. Man, the way Vintage players abhore change puts nature and the vaccuum to shame  While Newbie has pejorative connotations, novice is simply a nice way of saying Newbie, which effectively makes it a euphemism. Newbie isn't even a word in the english language. I fail to see how an existing, run-of-the-mill word could be a euphemism for a word that doesn't exist. I hold that, rather, 'newbie' is a diminuative non-existing synonym for a perfectly acceptable word. |
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<j_orlove> I am semi-religious
<BR4M> I like that. which half of god do you believe in?
<j_orlove> the half that tells me how to live my life
<j_orlove> but not the half that tells me how others should live theirs
R.I.P. Rudy van Soest a.k.a. MoreFling
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Godder
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« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2005, 06:43:59 am » |
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While Newbie has pejorative connotations, novice is simply a nice way of saying Newbie, which effectively makes it a euphemism. Newbie isn't even a word in the english language. I fail to see how an existing, run-of-the-mill word could be a euphemism for a word that doesn't exist. I hold that, rather, 'newbie' is a diminuative non-existing synonym for a perfectly acceptable word. Newbie is a word, albeit a colloquialism. It even has an entry in the dictionary (not that a dictionary entry is required for validation as a word, but it helps) that gives the original use of the word (English boarding schools, 'new boy'), plus some synonyms e.g. novice or neophyte. This thread was created because people were taking offense at having their threads moved to Newbie, based purely on pejorative connotations the word has acquired, particularly online. If that wasn't the case, they wouldn't take offense, and we wouldn't be having this discussion . In any case, the forum in question isn't used as a forum for novices (either to Magic, to Vintage or to TMD), so calling it that would misrepresent what it's actually used for. Rather, it's used as the place for decks that, for some reason, aren't quite there. Those reasons vary, and can include budget constraints, archetypes that are no longer viable (Sui and WW come to mind here), as yet unproven decks or deck ideas, or decklists that need a lot of work, as opposed to just debating a few individual card choices. That's not an exhaustive list by any stretch of the imagination, but it's clear that while a neophyte may well be more likely to post something along those lines, it's not a given. Bastian (respected member, longtime player of WW back in the day) could start posting about WW in Vintage again, and if he did, that thread wouldn't belong in the Open Vintage forum any more than a neophyte's budget Control Slaver decklist (or whatever). |
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That's what I like about you, Laura - you're always willing to put my neck on the line. |
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Sgt. Pepper
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« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2005, 07:56:35 am » |
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I agree with Godder. Changing Newbie into Novice sounds more polite, but it basically comes across as the same thing: you're not good enough to post in the Open forum.
I think that if you want the Newbie forum to be just about decks that aren't good enough, you have to use the 'tier system'. Change the Open forum to the Tier 1-2 forum and the Newbie forum to the Tier 3-4 forum. People still might take offence though, since calling a deck tier 3 could be interpreted as an indirect insult to the creator of the deck. Perhaps it would be better to separate the decks into decks that have proved themselves, and decks to have yet to show good results. This way you won't insult someone by saying that he,she or his or her deck sucks, instead you divide the decks by using a objective criteria. The only problem here is that you have to have a clear line between when a deck has proved itself, and when it has not.
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Bram
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I've got mushroom clouds in my hands
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« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2005, 08:35:25 am » |
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In any case, the forum in question isn't used as a forum for novices That's why I initially suggested stuff like 'irregular' or 'residual'. Irregular would definitely be a euphemism, by the way. |
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<j_orlove> I am semi-religious
<BR4M> I like that. which half of god do you believe in?
<j_orlove> the half that tells me how to live my life
<j_orlove> but not the half that tells me how others should live theirs
R.I.P. Rudy van Soest a.k.a. MoreFling
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SpencerForHire
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« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2005, 11:50:33 am » |
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In any case, the forum in question isn't used as a forum for novices That's why I initially suggested stuff like 'irregular' or 'residual'. Irregular would definitely be a euphemism, by the way. However every time I saw it I would think of.. Well you know..  Novice seems appropriate though, as in general the newer people are the ones who need to go there and they are novices. |
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Team Technology - Strictly better than our previous name.
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rvs
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« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2005, 11:52:34 am » |
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I think Vintage Newbie Forum would be a good name, but it (obv.) isn't included in the poll  |
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I can break chairs, therefore I am greater than you.
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Dozer
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« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2005, 11:56:33 am » |
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Rather, it's used as the place for decks that, for some reason, aren't quite there. That's why I voted for "Vintage Improvement Forum". That's just what the title wants to say. |
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a swashbuckling ninja Member of Team CAB, dozercat on MTGO MTG.com coverage reporter (Euro GPs) -- on hiatus, thanks to uni Associate Editor of www.planetmtg |
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Bram
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I've got mushroom clouds in my hands
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« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2005, 12:02:22 pm » |
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Improvement sort of implies that we're gonna improve the lists that end up in there. Which we're usually not.
It also seems to imply that the ones in the other forum can't / shouldn't be improved. Which they can/ should.
Novice is basically a less hurtful and more to the point way of saying Newbie. Or rather, it's the word we should be using instead of diminuative internet slang. I'll change my vote to that.
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<j_orlove> I am semi-religious
<BR4M> I like that. which half of god do you believe in?
<j_orlove> the half that tells me how to live my life
<j_orlove> but not the half that tells me how others should live theirs
R.I.P. Rudy van Soest a.k.a. MoreFling
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Methuselahn
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« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2005, 12:39:59 pm » |
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I was going to suggest "New Vintage." You are not actually saying newb, yet it is obvious that this is where new ideas, decks, and theories go. Put the forum at the top, maybe it will look more important that way, perhaps preventing a share of the problems.
I've always thought that if you have a forum that everybody can post in (Open) and a forum that acts like a filter (Newbie) you get a bad connotation automatically. Maybe the problem is in Vintage Open forum. In conjunction with something like "New" you may want another "Popular" area. I believe that potential tmd posters will see the logic in not putting their new deck ideas and "fix my decklist" posts into a 'Popular' category.
*shrug*
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Jacob Orlove
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« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2005, 01:15:16 pm » |
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One thing that everyone should keep in mind that at least half of the threads that get moved to newbie are moved there not because the deck is bad, but because the thread itself is substandard.
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Team Meandeck: O Lord,
Guard my tongue from evil and my lips from speaking guile.
To those who slander me, let me give no heed.
May my soul be humble and forgiving to all.
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knickers
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« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2005, 03:23:57 pm » |
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I think any of the above names are better ... Calling people "N0000BS" discourages people from playing/etc ... I'm guessing that the only reason why this changed was the fact SCGs now owns TMD? |
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If you don't write a book or go way off topic then its not a valid TMD post.
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Jacob Orlove
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When am I?
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« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2005, 03:47:37 pm » |
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I'm guessing that the only reason why this changed was the fact SCGs now owns TMD? If SCG ever forces any changes to the site, I will tell you. This had nothing to do with them. |
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Team Meandeck: O Lord,
Guard my tongue from evil and my lips from speaking guile.
To those who slander me, let me give no heed.
May my soul be humble and forgiving to all.
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knickers
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« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2005, 03:54:49 pm » |
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I'm guessing that the only reason why this changed was the fact SCGs now owns TMD? If SCG ever forces any changes to the site, I will tell you. This had nothing to do with them. Sorry, that was meant as a joke ... I knew the difference ... |
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If you don't write a book or go way off topic then its not a valid TMD post.
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Fubar
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Sanatorium Rector
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« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2005, 08:21:18 pm » |
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If the problem was that newbie is mildly offensive, it is solved with "vintage improvement", which seems to have a very positive connotation. How about a "Vintage Youngling Forum" |
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The Shaming of the True
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