[Single Card Discussion] Ghost Quarter

[wardo]

They just printed this against Vitu-Ghazi in Standard. I don't understand the attention it receives in Vintage.

This is worst than Wasteland, even if your opponent runs basics. In that case, using Ghost quarter to destroy nonbasic lands causes them to fetch basics (so Wasteland would have done a strictly better job). It becomes even worst when you destroy a basic land and they fetch another.. it's like you've lost a land drop and done nothing else.

[Komatteru]

Actually, it really fucks over the bounce lands too.  This makes them a huge liability now, more than they already were: annex, stone rain, etc.

[brianpk80]

Perhaps I'm naive, but I think that, especially with the FV/TV removal and subsequent Type 1 uproar, such a sales ploy would not slip by so easily this time.

If anything, I would think the Time Vault errata shows more of a disregard for Vintage players than anything else.
We're clearly a mere niche market to them.  If they believe they can compel the Vintage community to suck up boxes and
boxes of Dissension by restricting Wasteland, what's really stopping them?  I would think they would happily tolerate a few angry emails and raving posts on some web forums if it would increase their bottom line.

-Brian

[Harkius]

Ummm....why would you buy a box to get four copies of an uncommon? Go to your local shop. They will be 2-3 dollars.

Harkius

[zeus-online]

anyone ever considered that they created wasteland because strip mine is enormosly overpowered, but at the same time, they wanted to have a land-killer?

I sincerely doubt that they will restrict wasteland, since wasteland isnt really "the nutz" anymore...its not like people are playing old-school all-nonbasic mana bases anyway.

I'd expect the fetch lands to be restricted before wasteland! Eventhough i doubt that aswell.

Also, ghost quarter will most likely not see play in any format....its waaay too bad! Costing you a land drop, and not affecting the opponent in any meaningfull way most of the time!

/Zeus

[pyr0ma5ta]

This is from MaRo's latest article:

"I have the lovely distinction of being the designer of second highest amount of banned & restricted cards (and I'm slowly catching up to Richard). One of those cards is Wasteland. I designed it in Tempest as a fixed Strip Mine. Ghost Quarter is a fixed Wasteland (which makes it a fixed, fixed Strip Mine). The idea behind it was that I wanted to create a land that dealt with problem lands without setting the land's controller back on land. I'm not sure if this is going to see any tournament play (and that depends a lot on how many specific lands exist that people want to hose), but I'm very proud of its design."

Since when is Wasteland B/R'd?  This card is so much worse it's not even funny.

[zeus-online]

"So much worse" As in..."This card sux" or as in..."This card is waay overpowered" ?

I cant imagine this card getting played....i'd rather have a stone rain in my deck, then a ghost quarter, and yes im talking type 1 here! Thats how bad i feel this card is.

/Zeus

[vroman]

ignoring whether ghost quarters effect is decent in and of itself, the real problem is the deck design constraints it creates if you were to implement it.

clearly GQ is not worth cutting wasteland for. thus if playead at all GQ is added to waste + strip. 9 mana sources. GQs effect far more than wasteland requires crucible to be worthwhile. playing crucible -> playing workshop. 13 mana. add workshop necesities: academy, 5 mox, solocrypt vault = 23 mana. that leaves 2-4 slots for colored mana; far too few to support any amount of colored cards. instead of colored lands, these would be ancient tombs, or library, etc. therefore: GQ -> mud-stax.
colorless stax theoreticaly comes in two general forms:
1. metalworker - broken, but glaring blind spot from null rod. also notoriously draw dependent
2. null rod - minimize activated artifacts via triggered aggro creatures, or just endless lock pieces. fails due to lack of fucntional colorless draw engine; in the absence of welder + bazaar synergy

conclusion: ghost quarter, even if its effect is proved strong, has no deck to call home in T1.

[Tha Gunslinga]

So basically you have two choices.

1.  Play these in addition to 4 Wasteland and 1 Strip.
2.  Play these to replace your 4 Wastelands.


With choice 1, you're playing a very dedicated land-destruction deck, but the problem with that is that Crucible-Waste/Strip/Quarter is by definition slow as hell, and it's not that hard to bust out of it.  With the proliferation of artifact mana in Type 1, as well as decks that can just go "Academy, win," a heavy land-destruction strategy is a bad idea.  This would also mean you would have 4 fewer slots for running other cards.  Find me 4 empty slots in 5c or Uba Stax, then tell me that Ghost Quarter is the best call for those slots.  Ain't gonna happen.

With choice 2, you have to figure out a reason why a Wasteland that just turns a Sea or Volcanic into a normal Island is somehow good.  Yes, you can recur them and run your opponent out of lands, but that will take way too long most of the time.


In conclusion, Ghost Quarter just plain sucks, and will see the same level of play as Suppression Field.

[Glix]

Ghost Quarter is not necessarilly that bad, however it is worse than wasteland, and therefor has no place in vintage.

As all of you must know, vintage decks are tight as hell.  Squeezing even necessary cards in can be tough, with usually only 1 or 2 alterable cards in an established archtype.

Ghost Quarter is too slow and card disadvantegous to see play when competeting with wasteland.  Decks would rather play the rather, and running both is very, very difficult to accomplish.

If it does see play, I expect it in a Turbo Land type deck.

And to those of you who say waste will get the axe, no way.  Wasteland is an important weight in the balance of type 1.  It keeps both stax and budget decks alive.  Fish would be quite worse without it.  This would give control a huge boost.  I dont expect to see it happen any sooner than null rod.

[mattdeballer]

Guys. I play 5c stax, and when I play people, they fetch for basics in order to avoid the wastelands that I inevitably get in the first couple of turns. It will probably depend on your meta to determine the value, but in mine, this seems really good, and could warrent possibly at least 1-2 slots. It ill take some testing, some careful building, and a little bit of love, and this card could be a bomb. Also, this card would depend on your playstyle. If you would like the extra strip effects, hey why not? With your opponents fearing wastelands, thus fetching for basics, your chances of this becoming a strip mine becomes a lot better. This card has potential, don't count it out yet

[Pitlord]

Matt, the problem with this is that it really isn't a strip mine. It will be eventually, but by that time in 5c stax I would hope you have either a decent control of the game, or are probably going to lose anyways. Replacing the land is way too slow. Even though you are blowing up a land, another comes into play right away to replace it, leaving you with 1 less land and your opponent witht the same amount.

If you are playing fastbond, then this does get better, but with fastbond you will be taking heavy damage and you should be going pretty broken to begin with.

And I don't know what kind of 5c stax build you play, but in my build and many others, there is often a lack of colored mana sources, with 4 COB and 3 Gemstone, along with jewelry. As you can see, if we are complaining with that many colored sources, you can't really afford to play even fewer colored lands.

[Draven]

I am pretty "meh" on this card, however, I do try and look at both sides. The thought I just had is very similar to the "card quality vs card quantity" argument. My question is about "land quantity vs land quality."

What this means if your opponant has Workshop, Bazzar, Library, Acedemy etc out, and you use Ghost Quarters on one of the broken lands, they will have the same number of lands and you one less, which gives them "land quantity", but you have severly diminished their "land quality."

I have no idea if this concept works, I just came up with after reading the last few posts. What do you guiys think?

[49 Cents]

You have Wasteland for that. Basics are the problem..

I do not like this card at all. Giving your opponent mana? wtf. Waste the land, they tap it in response, fetch a basic and tap it again to play some random spell. I know I'M not going to play this land..

[LotusHead]

Disclaimer: I have not read all previous posts.

Hypothesis: This card is great as a 1 of or 2 of in decks that like wasting other lands and play Crucible of Worlds (Crucible is key).  Wasteland x4, Strip x2or3? Sign me up! This has no drawback unless you decide it is worth using it's strip ability.  It destroys ANY land that is not DarkSteel Citadel.

Some "broke decks" like Gifts.Bob.Swamp.dec play 1 basic Swamp (if any). Waste/Strip/Quarter their black and they are left with Lotus, LotusP,Jet for Black, and they do not win with black (except Tinker for Colossus, which every deck should "have a plan" against.)

That being said, "T2 Vintage Affinity Aggro" would love this as an option, HyperMud, etc.

Would Stax use this? Probabably. At least as a 1 or 2 of.  4: That is reserved for MUD.PWN.dec.

How many basics do YOU run? (food for thought/rhetorical question....)