The Mountains Win Again

[Seregrauko]

I thought of this decklist:

The Mountains Win Again, DK-style.

Mana/Strip: (25)
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
4 Plateau
3 Mishras Factory
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Badlands
1 Scrubland
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Flooded Strand
1 Windswept Heath
1 Mountain
1 Plains

Spells: (17)
4 Magma Jet
4 Hide/Seek
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Darkblast
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
1 Enlightened Tutor

Disruption with a Body: (18)
4 Jotun Grunt
4 Goblin Welder
3 Kataki, War's Wage
3 Goblin Vandal
3 Grim Lavamancer
1 Genju of the Spires

SB: Meta..

Its purely theoretical, unfortunately. But I WILL build this deck when I get home to my cards in a weeks time. I hope I can test it soon, but my meta really sucks. Though Ill try it out in a lager meta when I get the chance.

I dunno if its worth cutting a factory for lotus. I thought that a turn 1 lotus could be a winner.. Though it sucks mid/lategame. As any mana source in this deck

I still wonder whether or not grim lavamancer will be too weak when running 4 MD grunts. And is 4 MD too much?? I really wanna draw 1 per game. And Im likely to get 1 taken care of. So should 4 be the number. Or??

I should be able to deal with DSC, I might need 1 more pillar MD against all the combo out there. Creature-hate seems to be present enough. Combo- and dragonhate could be furthermore presented in the SB.

Any comments on the decklist I came up with?

Lars Petersen

[Scoops666]

Whatever the case, savvy Mountains players will not overlook the potency of Jotun Grunt.

I think peopel need to heed this advice. Grunt is probably the single best reason to play white. He not only disrupts graveyard dependent startegys (about 3/4 of the viable strategys in the format.) but he is a giant beater. 4/4 is pretty immune to damaged removal and is not going to die in combat. Simply put, he rules not only the attack phase, but the graveyard as well.

[Lidralyn]

I've been testing the deck for a little over a month now and I really love the deck....I have been testing Hide/Seek lately and since I wanted to use Seek some I decided to added a little black ONLY for seek....I changed the mana base slightly but its still solid

Previous Mana Base including moxes gave
3 Red Fetchlands to get 4 Plateaus, or 1 Mountain
3 White Fetchlands to get 4 Plateaus, or 1 Plains
1 Mox Ruby
1 Plains
Therefore it Gave 12 Ways to get R Mana, and 12 Ways to get White Mana

My Mana Base is:
1 Mountain
1 Plains
3 Plateau
1 Badlands
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Windswept Heath
1 Flooded Strand

Therefore it gives:
3 Red Fetchlands for 3 Plateaus, 1 Badlands, or 1 Mountain
3 White Fetchlands for 3 Plateaus, or 1 Plains
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
Therefore you get 12 Ways to R Mana, 11 Ways to get W Mana, and 4 ways to get B Mana.

I don't use the seeks often but having the 1 Badlands and 3 ways to fetch it makes it still a viable if I do need to use it.

[Tobi]

We had some discussion on the manabase changes when you add black.

The problem is, you want to have consistent access to all of the colors. Having a single Plains and 3 fetches for it cannot be supported in this scenario imo.
If you cut the Plains and replace it with a Mountain, you can adjust the manabase like this:

4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Plateau
1 Badlands
2 Mountain
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl

Nets:
13 red
10 white
8 black

You can exchange one mountain for a 4th Plateau and then have:
13 red
11 white
8 black


With 4 Bloodstained Mires you have the option to run one basic Swamp. However this would change the deck a lot towards RBw rather than RWb. On the other hand it gives you good access to basic lands.


edit: typo

[wethepeople]

i love TMWA, i have been playing it for quite some time now and have achieved great results. i have tweaked the decklist a bit to my likings for not only metagame specifications but because i just love certain cards. i am thinking about playing it in Myriad's next tournament on the 30th unless i dont create my own. unfortunately i missed out on the previous one, but i am going to preregister for the following, so i will be sure to show up. great work on the deck, i really enjoy playing it.

[Dxfiler]

Something I want to point out to all asipring TMWA players:

If you're playing against another aggro deck, for the love of anything that's holy, side out pyrotsatic pillar.

I've faced TMWA in tourneys alot, and the matches I've won against it were all ones I would not have if the mountains player just took out the damn pillar.  Pillar lets a non burn aggro deck race you.  That's not a good thing.  If you're burn aggro, you should be TOASTING (pun fully intended) all non burn aggro.  I.E. Fish.

Yes, playing pillar can win you the game, but chances are a game you won with pillar against other aggro was a game you were going to win anyway.  You simply made it much closer than it had to be by keeping it in.

- Dave Feinstein

[Pathian]

I just started playing vintage with TMWA, and it's likely that I'll be playing my first Mox Tourney this coming weekend. I've read up on the discussions on the possibility of the use of Hide // Seek both in the board and main to improve the matchup with combo and control. Just wanted to run a scenario by you guys for an opinion. Boarding Game 2 vs Oath, and you've seen Razia and Akroma. Would you anticipate SSS and pull your StPs for Seek?

[Franz Ferdinand]

Why would you pull STP? I'd get rid of irrelevant tech pieces first. Pillar can definitely go out for the Seeks.

[Pathian]

Probably better to rephrase that then. Would StP be part of the package of things that you pull (along with Pillars, Crypts, bolts, etc) if you're bringing in whatever you have vs Oath (Blasts, disenchant effects, hide // seek) if you're anticipating SSS?

[Franz Ferdinand]

Maybe one. But myself, I'd rather not run the risk. The burn package is probably better to cut first, since Oath is fast enough that its acceleration isn't that useful.

There's no reason NOT to have both STP and Hide/Seek. Hide/Seek is one of your best weapons against Oath.

[Pathian]

Even though I did miserably at this event (my first vintage tourney actually). I thought I'd throw in a tourney report from last saturday (8-26) at the mox tourney at Lakewood.

Jimmy and I leave Dayton around 8:30 and head to Lakewood, making it to Alter Reality around noon. On the way we discussed things ranging from Vintage tips for me to Snakes on a Plane. Around 1ish, my very first real vintage tourney started.

Round 1 - Adam with u/w vial fish
Game 1 starts off to a rough start with 2 of my fetches getting Stifled, that was by far the most painful part of this fish matchup. That setback sends me reeling in the early game, and beats from his men slowly send me down to 3 life. However, Grim Lavamancer is a champ in this match and I stabilize and burn him out. Game 2 I bring in 5 red blasts and 2 more lavamancers from the board. I only get Stifled once this game and my early game is a lot better than the last. However, my Lavamancers get Needled and I don't have an answer, so I'm relying heavily on the rest of my removal to get things done. I manage to clear his board and resolve a Jotun Grunt. However, I'm overzealous the next turn and I skip straight to my draw step putting Grunt into the yard. whoops. It's at this point that I realize that Jimmy, Paul Mastriano, and Steve Menendian are watching my game and snickering about that. Oh well, negative reinforcement is good for learning. I find another Jotun Grunt, and then another a few turns later which have a feast on both our late game graveyards and bring the game to an end close to time.

1-0-0 (2-0-0)

In between rounds I am bemoaning how badly I played that last match, but fairly happy that I pulled it out in 2 games.

Round 2 - ? (sorry, terrible with names, and this was a short round) with Food Chain Goblins
Game 1 he shows me a first turn goblin, and I know I'm in for some trouble...It's either straight goblins, whose creatures are better than mine and likely have more removal, or food chain goblins which I didn't anticipate at all. I decide it's likely food chain, and I burn his first goblin and drop a 2nd turn Pyrostatic Pillar. Food Chain comes down the next turn, along with Goblin Recruiter which stacks the deck. He chains recruiter into matron and matron into ringleader and it's academic from there. Pillar didn't deal nearly enough. Second game he combos me out with help from Lotus on the second turn. That was painful.

1-1-0 (2-2-0)

Round 3 - Archie with U/B/W Vial Fish
In game 1, my removal fails to make enough of an appearance, and he quickly overwhelms me with card advantage with Bob, and Ninja, and more or less locks me down with a Voidmage Prodigy. Grim Lavamancer makes a late appearance and puts up a fight, but it's not nearly enough after he's drawn such a continuous stream of guys. Game 2 my removal comes in full blast, augmented by 5 red blasts out of the board. Lavamancer does what he does best burning up fish, and I force him to break his own standstill on me for some nice card advantage. I find Genju of the Spires and fetch up my basic Mountain and ride that to the finish. Those two games took longer than this report makes it seem however, and we're running out of time for game 3. We start up, and I come out to a roaring start. I drop a first turn Lavamancer, and he drops a tundra for Vial turn one, he misses his second turn land drop, but drops another vial turn 2. However, I draw into my Strip Mine and cast Crucible with REB backup, I strip his only land and drop Null Rod the next turn to null out his 2 vials. Unfortunately, time was called that that point, so we had to call it a draw with his board completely locked up, oh well. At least I am very confident I would have won that game.

1-1-1 (3-3-1)

Round 4 - Willie Milton of Meandeck, with Meandeck Gifts
I played a few games against Willie's teammate Lyle at my local store earlier in the week and did fairly well. So I'm feeling decent about this matchup. I'm on the play game 1 and drop Plateau into Goblin Vandal. He takes his turn and uses a Mox Pearl to Tinker out a DSC ... hmm... On my turn I fetch another Plateau and send a Magma Jet to his face to try to Scry into an StP, nothing in the top 2, so I send them to the bottom and hope. I take 11 and he passes. I draw...not StP. To game 2. 5 blasts and assorted other toys come in from the board I come out firing, fetching Plateau for turn 1 Vandal, and a 2nd turn strip for his land. And then...nothing, my deck refuses to give up another land for the next few turns while he builds up. He plays out a Sol Ring and a Pithing Needle on my Vandal, which proceeds to Vandalize his Sol Ring anyway thanks to the triggered ability errata. My deck coughs up another land and a Mox finally and I resolve a Null Rod with REB backup. He Demonic Tutors, and I know that it can only be Yawgwin, so I know I've got to get this done fast. I play out a few more dorks and beat him to 0. Jimmy was surprised I pulled that one out, as when he looked over from his match he saw the board with me having only my vandal and 1 land. Game 3 starts off rather well, but he has a good storm hand and starts to go for the kill. I make a crucial error due to inexperience in not blasting his Chain of vapor targeting his artifacts and he storms me out. Live and learn.

1-2-1 (4-5-1)

Round 5 - Lyle Hawkyard of Meandeck with Control Slaver
Speak of the devil. So this match starts off as it should, I drop early vandal and mox monkey to keep his artifact mana off the board and start beating down. He plays some thirsts and digs deep into his deck and finds trike to take out my team, I have burn to take out his trike. I get Welder and Lavamancer into play and find my Crucible with enlightened Tutor. Crucible gets forced, but I immediately weld my Mox Pearl into it and start with the Wastelands. Mishra's factory joins in the beats a turn later. I topdeck my Null Rod and make by big mistake by trying to Win More. The game was likely already in my control, but I tap out to play Null Rod and he drains it. The extra mana lets him cast and activate slaver on his next turn with me tapped out with Seal of Cleansing, STP, and Mox Ruby in Hand. He uses the Wasteland I have on board to waste my own factory, replays the Waste and takes out a plateau, uses my lavamancer to kill my welder, uses my StP to kill my lavamancer, and my seal of cleansing to kill my Crucible...owww...that was the first time I've ever been slavered, and I don't care to repeat the experience. He drops 2 Welders on his turn which would let him recur Slaver and I scoop. Game 2 I resolve some artifact hate early to keep the pressure off me for now. Tormod's Crypt on board means to graveyard funny business as well. I resolve 2 null rods this game just to be safe and start beating down for a little. This goes on for a while, but he plays 2 Razormane Masticores which both get plowed, but sets me back on the beatdown. He eventually gets Rack and Ruin for my Null Rods, but it's a little too late as my minibeats finish him off. Time gets called just as we're shuffling up for game 3.

1-2-2 (5-6-1)

Obvious I miss the top 8 cut, but all is not lost, as Paul Mastriano brought his Type 4 stack and we played that as the Top 8 played. Paul made two of the most amazing type 4 plays I've ever seen, first casting Seek, and correctly determining who had Gleemax in their deck to gain 1,000,000 life. Later in the game, He had Boseiju in play, and Chainer and Bosh in the graveyard. And he had set it up so that before his turn, he could cast uncounterable corpse dance with buyback on Bosh eot, have Bosh on his turn, cast uncounterable corpse dance again on Chainer, throw Bosh at someone, recur him with Chainer, do it again, etc etc until everyone was dead. Now that was impressive.

Anyway, after the store closed, about a dozen of us wanted to go to dinner, and Mark Trogdon pointed us at a restaurant that turns out to have an hour wait. However, one of the patrons there told us about another restaurant not too far away that we all went to and chowed down over stories about magic and other assorted things.

Anyway, that's my experience with the Mountains thus far. More than anything else I think I need to work on learning when to mulligan. I tend to keep anything with access to red since the entire deck seems underpowered as a whole, so the hands tend not to look all that different to me. Lyle has suggested that I try to fit some REBs into the maindeck since I tend to board them in every match anyway, but I'm not sure what I'd pull. I'm also trying to find room for a Badlands and some Hide // Seeks. The list I played was the same list that myriadgames posted on his last tourney report.

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=29379.0

[Myriad Games]

Thanks for the tournament report!

It's always great to see feedback on the deck and the play by play is useful for determining optimal plays in the future. It seems like you recognize a lot of places you can improve. Definitely experiment with Hide / Seek as it should shore up the Gifts, Combo, Oath, and Slaver matchups considerably.

[yangtze34]

I've been testing the build chad behre played at waterbury against mostly long variants recently with really great results.  Pillar just completely destroys them once it's in play since the only real answer they have is chain of vapor.  I'm still not quite sure how to board against long, but I obviously take out the StP's and I took out a couple of other things and I boarded in the chants and as many pyroblasts/red elemental blasts as I possibly can.  I like this deck a lot since it really is pretty budget and can be put together for a proxy 10 tournament for less than 250 assuming you have none of the cards.  Also, I thoroughly enjoy playing the deck as it is a big change from the control decks I usually pilot.  I still need to test this deck against the majority of the metagame though.  Does anyone have the R/W build decklist with jotun grunts in them?

[wethepeople]

i had a build with three grunts and no MD pillars, pillars are best against Long of course so i chose to use threats that would help in all matchups. i will post it once i find it in MWS, i've gotta have 30 different decklists in there. 

i saw on one of your lists you used Goblin Bombardment, i thought i was original when i tested it as a singleton, but when i saw your list at Waterbury i guess i was wrong.

does anyone think that sacrificing all your tokens to Goblin Bombardment, and beating down with Genju a good gameplan against Oath? it prevents Oath from ever activating, so it forces them to wait for Show and Tell to resolve. =/

//wtp.

[Roat17]

Hello all, this is my first post on the forum and I hope it helps the discussion.

I was just wondering, with all the different lists for a r/w build, what the proper mix of creatures should be.  This is of course dependant on the environment you are in.  In an unknown environment however, how should your creature base look?

From what I have read, the main creatures to consider for the deck seem to be the following:

Gorilla Shaman: destroys moxen, and with enough mana other troubling artifacts.  The problem is that I find you never have enough mana to destroy anything higher than moxen or perhaps a 1cc artifact.  Finally he is a 1/1 for 1.

Goblin Vandal: when unblocked can take out any artifact for 1 red.  Against aggro, not so great.  Again, a 1/1 for 1.

Grim Lavamancer: IMO very essential to play 4 of maindeck, as without him any aggro match up is infinitely harder.  Eats your graveyard (and thus his interaction with Joten Grunt is not ideal) to deal 2 damage and ties up a red.  Another 1/1 for 1.

Goblin Welder: when playing with Tormod's Crypt(and not just relying on Grunt), allows you to sac Factories in order to recur the crypts.  Against other welder decks, he pretty much stops their tricks unless your opponent has more welders out than you do.  A 1/1 for 1.

That makes 4 creatures that are a possible first turn drop.  Ideally, you want some artifact hate out first turn.  And when your opponent is playing something unknown, a Vandal would be your best bet since he just sends any artifact to the grave for a red.

2cc critters:

Joten Grunt:  Disrupts graveyards with a powerful body.  His interaction with Grim Lavamancer sucks, but in the combo match up he quickens the clock which is key.  A 4/4 for 1W.

Kataki, War's Wage:  IMO an underused card in many builds.  He denies people the use of their moxen and makes them pay for any non-mana producing artifact if they wish to keep it.  Seems to fit the strategy of the deck very well.  Legendary status however decreases his value.  The best part about him again IMO, is that his ability does not tie up any of your mana.  A 2/1 for 1W.

Hearth Kami: This creature seems to have been taken out of a lot of builds.  I still like him as he can hit any artifact, similar to vandal, and still put a clock on your opponent, better than vandal can.  A 2/1 for 1R.

Mishra's Factory: THE manland, produces colorless mana, pumps other factories, and beats for 2 tying up essentially 2 colorless mana.  Can sac to recur a crypt.

Genju of the spires:  A one mana enchantment that turns your mountain into a dangerous threat.  A vanilla 6/1, it ties up 3 mana when attacking and 2 when blocking, and the enchantment comes back.  Great clock.


Now, the main point I am trying to make in my post is that many of the creatures tie up lots of mana, which this deck does not always have.  Also, Lavamancer eats your graveyard, Grunts eat both graveyards, and Crypt removes an entire graveyard. 

Currently I am testing:

1cc
2xGorilla Shaman
2xGoblin Vandal
3xGoblin Welder
4xGrim Lavamancer

2cc
2xHearth Kami
2xJotun Grunt
2xKataki, War's Wage

Also, I am only using two Factories, one Genju, two maindeck crypts, and a maindeck Goblin Bombardment to force damage through, help against aggro, and help against Oath.

The Main problem I see with my current build (creature wise) is that I need disruption first turn, so I am thinking I need to up either the Shaman or the Vandal and reduce the number of Kami..

Your input in the matter is greatly appreciated.

[Damos]

Wow you are only running 2x factorys. How is this working out for you. I too love the way this deck works and am also in a very mixed meta. Some times I will see actual power type 1 decks and other time's casual type 1 decks. And I have found that

3x-4x grunt's
4x Factory's
3x-4-x Hearth Kami/Kataki

Is a must. At least in my testing of the deck. The reason is that this are you beat sticks. Like you said the decks run's a lot of 1/1's. But almost all those are needed as utility creatures. So all you 2 power guys and grunt are what really wins you the game. And factory is just an amazing card to run in this deck.

As for the grunt lavemancer conflict. I have found that this is really not that big of a conflict. As I use the mancer manly for removal not as a burn guy. Now if my oppoent's life total get's down low enough then yeah I will start useing the mancer to shock him to death with it. But for the most part I am not useing the mancer to remove cards for my libary. And I have also found that if the grunt can stick around for 2-3 turns (as you should really only play him if you know you can get through with him) then that is all that is really needed for the game.

Though I am still new to the deck and still testing it out and also my build is a little odd. So I could be wrong on some of this. It is just this is what I have found from my testing.

[wethepeople]

I am going to make another Hide/Seek based list, i had one on MWS for a while and it did very well in almost all matchups.

Did you say that your newest lists ran MD Grunts? i had a few that did, the whole Lavamancer, Grunt thing never really came as a problem, if you want to take out creatures then thats no problem because you will continue to take to fill the graveyard, then Grunt swings for 4 each turn. So unless you decide to ping for 2 with lavamancer (which you shouldnt, just attack and deal 1 less) grunt/lava man interaction isnt a problem.

//wtp.

[Damos]

Here is the list I have been trying out with the black splash.

Creatures
4x Goblin Welder
3x Grim Lavamancer
3x Gorilla Shaman
3x Hearth Kami
3x Jotun Grunt

Spells
4x Magma Jet
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Hide/Seek
2x Crucible of Worlds
2x Null Rod
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor

Mana
4x Mishra's Factory
4x Plateau
4x Wasteland
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Wooded Foothills
1x Badlands
1x Scrubland
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Pearl
1x Stripmine

As for the SB I am consinatly changing that up to match what looks like is going to be run at the tournement.

Now as for the deck itself. I know it may look a little odd but I am not playing in a powerful meta. So while I do see a few of the tier 1 decks out there I also see a few of the homemade kind of deck's too. That is the reason I run things like the 2x crusibal's and the Null Rod's as they can help out a good bit.

I also am only runing 3x Maindeck Hide/Seek. The biggest reason is that I could not figure out what I wanted to cut to make room for the 4th. I am thinking that maybe I should cut a bolt to make room for it. But I kind of like the bolt as it has won me more then a few games by leting me actually burn my oppoent for that last 3 point of life. But maybe the Hide/Seek is just a better card only testing will tell me that.

Though I have a question with the black splash does this mean that Phyrexian Negator is a viable SB option now. I mean hands down the grunt is just a better beater for this deck. But against a creatureless or creature light deck this seem like it would be good. I mean think about it now you not only have a 4/4 beater for two mana but now you also have a 5/5 trampler for three mana for them to worry about too. This means that they are forced to be abal to deal with all of them in the first few turn they come out or it is game over. The draw back to the negator is that if they can start hiting it for damage then they can totaly wipe you out. I guest the question is are there that mana decks out there that do not run that mana creature and do not have a way to deal with this. And if so is that match up bad enough to even warrent taking up SB slots for the Negators. What do you all think about the Negator in the SB idea. Like, Dislike, and why.

[wethepeople]

Darkblast+Grunt work well together with a black splash, dredge allows you to keep grunt out for another five turns as wel as cut the un-needed things from your deck.

Hide/Seek is definitely a 4'of in 3 color, it is so sick. it gets rid of anything from Stax, it owns Long, it gets rid of DSC against gifts, making their tendrils kill harder, and their DSC kill impossible, it gives you life against anything else. It gets rid of annoying artifacts which is very common here in vintage. As well as allowing you to know your opponents complete decklist.

[Myriad Games]

Those are the key reasons to use Hide / Seek - it's flexibility and specifically Seek's ability to gain informational advantage. Game 1, you get the opportunity to find out exactly what they're playing. Game 2 or 3, you can find out what they've sided in and remove one of the largest threats. In an environment rife with decks that utilize just a few cards to win, this card is strong. The major challenges to using it effectively are maintaining a mana base that can support it and knowing how to best apply it in each matchup.

[Barron]

This is a build with hide/seek that I have been using. The card can be a real beast in games and I think everyone should try it. I have found that playing a single bad lands is enough for the card to be effective, though i may want to tweak the pitch lands a bit. The single black mana doesn't change the current mana build much, and with the grunt and pitches I have found that even if it gets wasted i still get it back out in play. Also, even without the black it can deal with the problem cards (i.e. DSC).

I haven't tested the deck with grim lavamancers or welders, yet, and there is a big tournament in a week so, for those of you that have played with those builds. Are the lavamancers really a unique advantage? or are the grunts and in deck destruction sufficient? I haven't had much of a problem, but that doesn't mean the deck is optimal. Also, do you think darkblasts can sub for the mancers? I figure it's recurring and has better synergy with the joten grunt.

I am also unsure of the 4 chant count. I use them to disrupt storm counts, but I think 4 might be a bit overboard.

Artifacts 4
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl

Creatures 13
4 Goblin Vandal
4 Jotun Grunt
2 Hearth Kami
3 Kami Of Ancient Law

Enchantments 6
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Seal Of Cleansing
2 Genju of the Spires

Instants 16
1 Enlightened Tutor
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Swords To Plowshares
4 Hide/Seek

Basic Lands 1
1 Mountain

Lands 20
2 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Plateau
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
1 Badlands


Sideboard: 14
4 Orim's Chant
1 Seal Of Cleansing
1 Darkblast
1 Sacred Ground
2 Pyroblast
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Tormod’s Crypt

[kombat]

(Re: Round 5)

Game 1: I topdeck my Null Rod and make my big mistake by trying to Win More. The game was likely already in my control, but I tap out to play Null Rod and he drains it. The extra mana lets him cast and activate slaver on his next turn

Game 2: I resolve some artifact hate early to keep the pressure off me for now. Tormod's Crypt on board means to graveyard funny business as well. I resolve 2 null rods this game just to be safe

Slow learner, eh? 

[Pathian]

(Re: Round 5)

Game 1: I topdeck my Null Rod and make my big mistake by trying to Win More. The game was likely already in my control, but I tap out to play Null Rod and he drains it. The extra mana lets him cast and activate slaver on his next turn

Game 2: I resolve some artifact hate early to keep the pressure off me for now. Tormod's Crypt on board means to graveyard funny business as well. I resolve 2 null rods this game just to be safe

Slow learner, eh? 

More like bad player But in my defense that was more situational, he didn't have drain mana up when I dropped Rod 2 and he had 3 cards in hand, and I had REB backup if he forced, so I figured it would be a safe play since he would need to R&R Rod 1 and 2 instead of Rod and Crypt to even try to combo out which would let me blow his 'yard after R&R resolved anyway.

[Damos]

Barron from my testing I have found the mancer to be a nice card to have. As it is a great creature removal spell. Though darkblast is nice to have too with the black splash. Me I have personally been testing with both the mancer and the darkblast. I have replaced the 3x bolt's in the deck with blast. The bolt is a nice card to have. But when I think about it. I find I use the bolt as a removal spell more then anything. And that I am never really killing anything with it that a darkblast can not kill too. Plus as other's have pointed out the blast help's let you keep a grunt out longer which is always a good thing.

As for the mana base. I have found that with the 3rd color splash that I want all 4x bloodedstained mire's in the deck now. And that I want wooeded foothills as the other fetch lands. The reason is that a foothill can go and get a badland's or a plateau and the lone mountain if needs be. Where as the windswept heath can only go and get a plateau. I know origanly the reason that the deck played odd number on the fetch lands was to help the deck out a little bit better agains thing's like pithing needle. But now with a 3rd color in the deck. I think you really need to worry more about making your mana base better and not try to play around something like pithing needle. I mean if you really think about it how many times is your oppoent really going to drop a needle naming a fetch land. When there are thing's like wasteland, mancer, kami's, crypt, factory and genju for them to name first. I am not saying that you are wrong though. I am just giveing my option on the mana base.

Well I hope that helps some.

[Barron]

Thanks a lot. the information abou the lightning bolts and darkblasts helped a lot. I just picked up darkblasts and grim lavamancers' this afternoon and i put in one darkblast, but after what you said i just took out the bolts and added two blasts. Right now my decklists looks like this

Creatures 15
4 Joten Grunt
3 Kami Ancient Law
2 Hearth Kami
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Gorilla Shaman
2 Goblin Vandal

Spells 23
4 Swords to plowshares
4 Magma Jet
3 Hide/Seek
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Seal of Cleansing
2 Darkblast
2 Tormod's crypt
1 Goblin Bombardment
1 Enlightened tutor
1 Mox pearl (proxy)
1 Mox Ruby (proxy)

Lands 21
4 Plateau
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's factory
3 bloodstained mire
2 windswept heath
1 wooded foothills
1 strip mine
1 badlands
1 mountain

SB 15
1 Sacred Ground
1 Seal Of Cleansing
1 Hide/Seek
2 Goblin Vandal
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 RED
3 Pyroblast

Right Now I am considering taking out the last mountain and putting in a scrubland since then i will have 11 red, 11 white, and 8 black, which will help oout a lot. My question is, are playing 2 basic lands (1 plains and 1 mountain) really important? If so, is it plausable for me to take out 1 plateau for the scrubland?

Also, since i have taken out the bolts and put in 2 darkblasts I have one spot left in the MD. I am thinking of putting in, grim lavamancer, goblin vandal, lightning bolt, hide/seek, black lotus, crucible of worlds (not so sure on this one), seal of cleansing, Mox Jet (i think this one is my top choice so far).

I am starting to think that since it is a few proxy tournament and most people don't have power i will be hitting a lot of blue (Fish), which is why i am thinking 6 REbs.

I won't be able to playtest annymore before the tournament (two days away). So i will have to take your guys words for any changes. Also, i don't think i will be able to find welders in time.

[wethepeople]

Darkblast is soo good with Lavamancer, it allows you to take out any creature, even cards like Grunt. (drop blast during your upkeep, dredge it back, again, then shoot it for another 2, and you've just killed a Jotun Grunt.)

I suggest running both in a black splash since it also fuels your GY quite greatly. Another great thing about Lavamancer is that you can take out Grunt even without Dblast. Just RFG your graveyard and Jotun will be sacrificed for Cumulative Upkeep. Darkblast also has the ability to fuel your own Grunt. So many possibilities with Darkblast in TMWA+blk, i suggest running it in all builds.

//wtp <3's TMWA.

[Myriad Games]

Anyone see any good candidates for the Mountanis from Time Spiral?

[Pathian]

Children of Korlis seems the most likely candidate for a sideboard slot (or possibly maindeck depending on your meta).

Children of Korlis                       W
Creature - Human Rebel Cleric    C
Sacrifice Children of Korlis: You gain life equal to the life you've lost this turn. (Damage causes loss of life.)

Sometimes Pyrostatic Pillar just isn't available or fast enough (or doesn't survive a bounce). Seems like a solid card to try to weather the combo storm...so to speak

[wethepeople]

Yeah, i was wondering what TMWA is going to do about the new Time Spiral goodies, such as Children of Korlis, as stated in the post above.

Pillar is soo good, i dont think it is worth cutting. Korlis also can be bounced before they drop Tendrils, so this may be a tough decision.

//wtp.

[TopSecret]

     Children of Korlis is also a mana cheaper than Pillar, and a 1/1 beater.
It would probably be awesome to use it in conjunction with Pillar,
and the other hate currently in the deck.

     If damage causes life loss,
doesn't that make Children of Korlis with Pillar out hilarious?

     Children of Korlis is a rebel.
Does anyone think there is potential for a 'rebel toolbox' in this deck?
Maybe some Children of Korlis, 1 Whipcorder, and some Ramosian Sargent?
It gets hate against Combo, stops Colossus, and gets creatures against aggro.
Or maybe that would just be a good approach for WW...
Just throwing the idea out there...

     If the aggro matchup becomes more popular,
the new suspend dragon may be some savage tech,
or the Serra Avenger.
     It might not be worth investing double white or red on those though.

     TopSecret