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Author Topic: Expansions dissected  (Read 8205 times)
Mr. Type 4
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« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2006, 02:27:35 pm »

This is pretty silly way to run the categories, as it seems that it is highly debateable as to what goes into category 2 or 3 or 4, and with all the expansions that have tied point values, the arbitrary decision to play a card into cat 2 vs 3 or something really could have a large impact on rank.  Obviously it's also pretty hard to decide which cards make the list at all, let alone where they should be ranked.

STILL, the method has been able to quickly identify the sets that really shaped Vintage.  If I had to to guess what the top 5 were I'd have probably went ABU, SAGA, LEGACY, MIRRODIN, DARKSTEEL forgetting the impact that Onslaught has with those fetchlands. 

Simic Sky Swallower is a pretty important sideboard card from Dissension.  Dissension doesn't really deserve to be hanging out with Homelands, although I have to admit I knew Prophecy was going to be garbage, as I often forget that set even existed. 

Promo is a pretty sweet set, considering that it contains like 4 cards?  (Crypt, Arena, N Dragon, Sewers)
« Last Edit: August 07, 2006, 02:36:26 pm by Mr. Type 4 » Logged

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« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2006, 03:17:20 pm »

I found this list very interesting and thought provoking.

It gets even more interesting when you examine the impact of each block since WoTC designs on a block by block basis and not each expansion seperately.

Using the numbers from Gabe's origional post, the blocks breakdown as follows:

A/B/U -  96
Urza -  68
Mirrodin -  51

Early Sets -  48

Onslaught -  43
Odyssey -  40

Tempest -  37
Ice Age -  29
Mirage -  28
Masques -  25
Ravnica -  23
Kamigawa -  21
Invasion -  16
Other -  13

The biggest thing that jumps out for me about this list is that the top 3 blocks were (not exclusively) but primarily defined by artifacts.  To a lesser extent the "early sets" block as well.  

Then the next highest Blocks are those that were primarily defined by creatures, Onslaught and Odyssey.  The rest of the blocks were not as slanted towards particular types of cards as these sets were and therefore I think they were diluted in terms of power and influence on Vintage.  

I know many people had high hopes for Ravnica block since it was so focused on color archetypes, but it has not panned out that way...


Ok,  lets look at the numbers of these blocks in another way.  Chronologically:

A/B/U  -  96

Early Sets  -  48
Ice Age  -  29
Mirage  -  28
Tempest  -  37
Urza  -  68

Masques  -  25
Invasion  -  16
Odyssey  -  40
Onslaught  -  43
Mirrodin  -  51

Kamigawa  -  21
Ravnica  -  23
Time Spiral  -  ??

For me, this is the most interesting, and telling, way to look at all this data.  After each of the most influential blocks there is a HUGE drop off in terms of overall set power and usefullness for Vintage.  If you break down the "early sets" into their individual expansions it become even more obvious.  

The interesting thing is that this demonstrates a cycle in the design of the game that is not initially intuitive when studying the History of MTG.  It is commonly accepted that there is a natural power creep over the life of the game.  WoTC tries to keep the game fresh and interesting by making better cards in each set and this naturally caters to the design of more poweful cards.  

For the most part, WoTC doesn't pay attention to this power creep because it doesn't over affect their bread & butter, Type 2 and Limited.  But every 4 to 5 years, the power level of a set gets so high that it completely overpowers the others.  When Mirrodin block was legal in Type 2, it was the only set used for decks, period.  Astral Slide was pretty much the only exception.  That's it.  It became glaringly apparent to even WoTC that they had created a monster.  And the last two sets since then have been severely neutered in comparison.  

The same thing happened after A/B/U block,  probably more naturally than by conscious design effort though.  The same thing definately happened after Urza block though.

So, if this same pattern holds true than Time Spiral should be more influential for Vintage than Kamigawa or Ravnica blocks.  And we are looking as a few more years until a truely powerful block like Mirrodin is made again.  

Everyone remember the explosion on innovation resulting from Mirrodin Block?  TMD helped of course, but still.  Well, get psyched for that again in a few years.

The other conclusion that comes from all this is that even the blocks inbetween, although diminished in power, have been able to contribute 20 points or so of Vintage worthy cards.  That is a reassuring thought at least.  It means that Vintage should be able to sustain itself in the interim until the next great, format defining set comes along.

Mad props to Gabe for all his work!  Great stuff.
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« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2006, 04:51:04 am »

I was very sad not to see Rolling Earthquake on your list
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« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2006, 06:07:10 am »

Great comments.
I donīt think I want to put to much old-time stuff in there. I just put that to get Legends a little higher on the list Very Happy
I think that makes this all a very flawed analysis then.
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« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2006, 01:53:38 pm »

Great comments.
I donīt think I want to put to much old-time stuff in there. I just put that to get Legends a little higher on the list Very Happy
I think that makes this all a very flawed analysis then.

It's just one man's opinion - I really like the concept.

It'd also be interesting to see a $ list - something like this:
    5 pts:  cards that cost $500 or more
    4 pts:  cards that cost $400 or more
    3 pts:  cards that cost $300 or more
    2 pts:  cards that cost $200 or more
    1 ps:  cards that cost $100 or more
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« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2006, 03:33:32 pm »

Great comments.
I donīt think I want to put to much old-time stuff in there. I just put that to get Legends a little higher on the list Very Happy
I think that makes this all a very flawed analysis then.

It's just one man's opinion - I really like the concept.

It'd also be interesting to see a $ list - something like this:
    5 pts:  cards that cost $500 or more
    4 pts:  cards that cost $400 or more
    3 pts:  cards that cost $300 or more
    2 pts:  cards that cost $200 or more
    1 ps:  cards that cost $100 or more


Um, ABU wins? 
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