[discussion]Chalice in 5- proxy meta?

[PETER FLUGZEUG]

Note: I am not sure if this thread goes into improvement forum or open forum.
In the last years, in Switzerland (and in other parts of Europe and in the midwest of the US as well I hear) there were only sanctioned events, which obviously means no proxies. This changes the metagame pretty much (as all of you know, I'm sure).
In the last year, however, there are mostly 5proxy- events with some 30-60 people playing. Some of those players are full-powered, some don't own anything.
In another thread, you could read the following:

Do remember that I am in a non-powered meta, which explains why I don't have a single Chalice of the Void in my deck.

I think this statement is clear for everyone. BUT:

Do you think chalice is worth itself in a 5- proxy meta?

Some more specifications:

Tournaments are attended by some 40 people usually.
about 5-10 of these players are full powered.

the metagame consists of:

ALOT of fish variants
Dragon
Oath
Tendrils combo (though more TPS (slower variants) than grim)
random NOOB.dec
many drainbased.dec (not so much slaver, more gifts, mostly winning through tinkercolossus)

The most common five-proxy configuration is something like:

ancestral
time walk
lotus
2 moxen

Many people play poor man's moxen though (petal, diamond, chrome)

The problem is that you often do not want to have any moxen, because there is still a lot of aggro or random.dec (where you were better off playing things like terror or the like
In the upper range of tables, however, there are often powered players with full jewelery.
In those games you sometimes really want a chalice.

Now what do you do?

Forget it?
play it?
even: side it?

I am sure many of you have thought about this. Don't discuss my specific meta only, I'd like to hear your opinion (But in 5proxy events, many proxieconfigurations will look like the one I listed...)

My opinion is unclear. I kind of like the chalices even if they don't pull out their optimized effect because a random chalice @0 is not always effective. Against many decks though, you don't even want to set chalice @0 but rather 1.

[Tobi]

Chalice@1 is very good against un-/partially-powered aggro and fish. If you have a lot of these, play it.
If you start, Chalice@0 is also great, even if the opponent has few 0-mana artifacts. He may always have held a starting hand because of Lotus or Moxen which gets screwed this way.

Btw, cool name

[Jacob Orlove]

Keep in mind that if you're playing something like Ichorid or Dragon, Chalice 0 has a lot of value just for stopping Tormod's Crypt.

There's nothing wrong with sideboarding them if that's really where they help the most, but you may be better off keeping them main for an edge in your toughest matchups, and SBing in creature hate for the easier ones (note: if you're playing something like Fish, though, this doesn't apply, since powered decks are your good matchups, and aggro is your bad matchup). If you have white available, though, Swords is a good answer to Tinker AND to all those aggro decks. It might be a better metagame call that Chalice for you.

[wethepeople]

CotV isnt always used to prevent moxen, like Jacob said if you are playing something that is hosed by Tormod's Crypt then Chalice would help greatly. you can always drop it at 1 or 2 for those other decks. what kind of deck do you play, if you have other weaknesses you can always drop Chalice for that number, stopping you from needing worry about that card.

Chalice in Sideboard? not sure, you are best off using something like null rod for those of whom sporting full power. it has potential however due to the fact that you can figure out your opponents curve on casting costs in his/her deck, so you can prevent them from playing a great number of cards. thats all i can think of, i personally dont run it, but i most likely play an entirely different deck than you. these are all things you should take into consideration. good luck in the tournament  .

[MonoE]

In a word: yes. Chalice is so much more than an artifact mana/Tormod's Crypt hoser. Null Rod works fine for that. What Null Rod dosen't do, though, is match your deck up casting-cost-for-casting-cost to your opponent's, find the greatest discrepancy, and capitalize. All for a maximum of four mana. It's best as a maindeck card, I think, because it pays to build your deck with Chalice in mind. Not so much build your deck around Chalice, but consider which are your best Chalice numbers, and smoosh some slots to other casting costs. Again, not all or anything, but some where it doesn't hurt you (Example: Echoing Truth over Chain of Vapor).

Eric