[Planar Chaos] Extirpate

[yespuhyren]

After all, Stax doesn't use it's Jester's Cap for lands, either.

Well, thats not entirely true at all.  Many people who have played me will vouch for me capping for their fetchable, especially if they only have a few and they don't fetch in response.  As well, many games where opponent is mana screwed, I'll cap for 3 lands at a time when they are in trouble.

[GrandpaBelcher]

Capping for lands is neat when someone is mana screwed.  I capped for lands twice last night.  It was wonderful.

Anyway, Extirpate and Jester's Cap aren't entirely comprable on this point.  Extirpate's target has to be in the graveyard already, and if combo's (Gift's, whatever's) win conditions are in the graveyard, they're already in a bad way.  Jester's Cap doesn't care and rips them out of the deck.  Each has strong play applications, but they're not quite doing the same things.

I also look forward to Wasting and Extirpating lands.

[yespuhyren]

I look forward to combining Extirpate and Jester's Caps in RFG: The Jester for act II, B/R

[brianpk80]

When I see comparisons to Coffin Purge or comments that Extirpate is "[useless in the face of an already resolved FoW]" I think a lot is being overlooked.  As I see it, the main feature is to prevent an opponent from winning the game immediately (like Orim's Chant, for instance) but with a much broader range of common deck targets, more flexibility during those games, a cheap cost, uncounterability, and a free Peek through an opponent's hand and library thrown in for good measure.     

It's primarily a hate piece so it will find a good home in more non-glamorous decks like Fish but is cheap enough to fit into the maindeck or sideboard of any deck running/splashing black.  Extirpate will help you survive "Land, Ritual..." and "EoT, Gifts for Will, Recoup, X, Y" as well as Salvagers/Lotus, Animate Dragon, 3 Ichorids FtW, Weld in the Mindslaver/Trisk/Titan/Karn/Tangle Wire/Belcher, Intuition, and a few oddbirds like Krosan Reclamation targets, Life from the Loam, High Tide, and Squee, Goblin Nabob.  Messing up an opponent's top of library after a card disadvantage tutor can be huge as well.  No one is saying this is a card that will singlehandedly win every game, but it can very well do so occasionally and is no less disruptive than Duress or Stifle.         

The argument that it can be Duressed or Chaliced @ 1 is silly; if that were defining criteria, no one would be running Ancestral Recall or Sol Ring in Vintage. 

Then there's its potential for mana denial and hand destruction (hitting a four-of when an opponent has at least one copy in hand).  This would be a nightmare in some renovated Ghost Quarter + Null Rod + LftL monstrosity like last summer's WtG (aka Vinelasher Kudzu.dec).  A casting cost mana denial tool that doubles as a "save your ass from instant death" measure and will randomly remove cards in an opponent's hand from time to time is nothing to laugh at.  EoT Extirpate on Mana Drain could be the Hymn to Tourach from hell in any late-game control mirror. 

+ Lots of information
+ Prevents Dragon/Bomberman/Recouped Wills/Weld Targets/Ichorid/Loam/Squee/Ritual
+ Mana Denial
+ Undoes Mystical/Vampiric/Imperial and other Library manipulation
+ Random Hand Destruction
+ Black
+ Uncounterable
+ Cheap
+ Instant Speed

I don't think there will be such thing as Extirpate.dec but as a disruption piece, it's a big bargain and should work well in Fish skeletons.  Whether it fades or not, it will have some impact on Vintage.  One can't honestly say on one hand "this won't matter at all" and then on the other "Well I'll just add Watery Graves, Underground Rivers, and a Bloodstained Mire." 

-BPK

[zeus-online]

The argument that it can be Duressed or Chaliced @ 1 is silly; if that were defining criteria, no one would be running Ancestral Recall or Sol Ring in Vintage. 

I'm pretty sure most people respond with that due to everyone and their mother saying "uncounterable" or "unrespondable".

Oh and the heavy anti-arguments are probably due to the extreme hype this card is getting.

/Zeus

[dicemanx]

The argument that it can be Duressed or Chaliced @ 1 is silly; if that were defining criteria, no one would be running Ancestral Recall or Sol Ring in Vintage.

It's not silly at all. Sol Ring and Ancestral are bombs that you play if your mana can support them regardless of the existence of cards that could theoretically stop them.

Disruption, on the other hand, has to be carefully chosen based on both what your deck is trying to accomplish and what the opposing decks can do to stop you if the disruption is particularly threatening. The fact that Extirpate, for instance, is Duressable or can be stopped by cards like Xantid Swarm is a *very* major deal against certain archetypes when compared to permanent based graveyard hate like Crypt or Leyline. The fact that trying to create synergy by combining Duress and Extirpate leads to increased vulnerability to CotV for 1 is also a fairly significant consideration.

One can't honestly say on one hand "this won't matter at all" and then on the other "Well I'll just add Watery Graves, Underground Rivers, and a Bloodstained Mire."

Its effect can be diminished if it does show up in appreciable numbers through various subtle ways. We shouldn't take existing hyperbole and dismiss it based on people's tendencies to use very distortive and absolute language.

I look forward to combining Extirpate and Jester's Caps in RFG: The Jester for act II, B/R

Quite honestly Jason, I'd really like to see this thing in action - I have pretty strong doubts that you can assign so many slots to cards that will be doing little against redundant decks like Fish or Shop, and aren't even going to be very effective some appreciable amount of time against decks that these cards are supposedly good against. I think you're really playing with fire here, but of course we can all be proven wrong by actual empirical evidence (tourney results) rather than theoretical waxing. I'm looking forward to it in 2007!

[MuzzonoAmi]

The fact that Extirpate, for instance, is Duressable or can be stopped by cards like Xantid Swarm is a *very* major deal against certain archetypes when compared to permanent based graveyard hate like Crypt or Leyline.

I think this is the reason people are underestimating the card. It isn't graveyard hate. It's an uncounterable, instant speed Lobotomy for B. Yes, the card has to be in the graveyard already, but most of the time people won't (or shouldn't) be aiming these at win conditions. If I have one turn 1, and you open Land, Brainstorm, I'm going to Extirpate your BS. If someone can't see that your turn-to-turn gameplan has been fundamentally altered (and weakened), then that person is incompetent. I think this card will become a lot like Pithing Needle - a very powerful answer that you build to compensate for, but not something that will warp the format.

[dicemanx]

The fact that Extirpate, for instance, is Duressable or can be stopped by cards like Xantid Swarm is a *very* major deal against certain archetypes when compared to permanent based graveyard hate like Crypt or Leyline.

I think this is the reason people are underestimating the card. It isn't graveyard hate. It's an uncounterable, instant speed Lobotomy for B. Yes, the card has to be in the graveyard already, but most of the time people won't (or shouldn't) be aiming these at win conditions. If I have one turn 1, and you open Land, Brainstorm, I'm going to Extirpate your BS. If someone can't see that your turn-to-turn gameplan has been fundamentally altered (and weakened), then that person is incompetent. I think this card will become a lot like Pithing Needle - a very powerful answer that you build to compensate for, but not something that will warp the format.

I think that the "incompetency" here is better assigned to the person that thinks in such absolutes. When you Extirpate that BS, you could very well be going a card down that ultimately results in your own demise. The strength of the card is too random and is contingent of a variety of factors; sometimes it will do nothing, sometimes it might win you the game. Sometimes you'll target win conditions like YWill and Ichorid, sometimes you'll target resources like BS and dual lands. The point is that it will have a variety of effects from game to game; will good players play with a card that is so unpredictable? Do they need to resort to such measures, or will they continue to use more trustworthy pieces of disruption?

[lordmayhem]

I certainly believe that Extirpate will be a powerful new addition to our ever growing list of viable cards, and it definitely has the potential to warp the format, though probably not as badly as Chalice did. However, I think that after the dust settles and decks adjust to the changes, it will not be the abomination it is being hyped as being.

I think that Extirpate will only find its way into Fish decks or other forms of hate decks. Stax is definitely a possiblity, though I seriously doubt it will stick around. One thing this card definitely might do is revive Sui, but that has been speculated with many many new cards. Anyway, I don't see Extirpate as something which will find its way into other types of decks.

An interesting little thing to note, is that if both you and your opponent are running Extirpate, and he Extirpates you first, you can remove all his Extirpates with your own Extirpate. Which can turn out to be a very interesting battle of who blinks first.

I hold the opinion though, that what Extirpate will definitely do, is force a great deal more players to play with a full set of Duress.

[dicemanx]

I certainly believe that Extirpate will be a powerful new addition to our ever growing list of viable cards, and it definitely has the potential to warp the format, though probably not as badly as Chalice did. However, I think that after the dust settles and decks adjust to the changes, it will not be the abomination it is being hyped as being.

We should note that the potential to warp a format (as far as recently printed cards are concerned) is often connected to the ability to generate significant card advantage, whether real or virtual, and/or build massive tempo. Cards like Trinisphere, CotV, Null Rod, and to a smaller extent Pithing Needle, are examples of cards that can generate very large virtual card advantage and put you far ahead in terms of tempo. What Extirpate lacks is the ability to mess with your opponent's plans by building that virtual card advantage; instead, you are actually investing a card and hoping that the disruption in the synergy of your opponent's deck (or removal of the win condition) will be sufficent, but the fact that you won't be affecting board position or creating (substantial) virtual card advantage makes it very difficult to start making comparisons to a card like CotV.

The problem is that the way that T1 powered decks are designed, they tend to have a lot of redundancy and flexibility - removing a Brainstorm from Gifts, for example, after the first BS has been played, won't automatically impact the Gifts deck in a manner that's desired. You *hope* it will have some disruptive effect but without the typical card parity or card advantage that usually accompanies the playing of disruption, and you're basically doing it 'blind" and hoping it pans out in the long run. In the short run, you're just praying that your investment of 1 card that doesn't affect board position (unless you're removing win conditions of course) isn't going to do you in. You don't have much margin for error when it comes to facing Drain decks or Tendrils decks, so including multiple copies of Extirpate in decks is going to be a risky proposition. 

A more apt comparison would be to compare Extirpate to cards like Trickbind, Wipe Away, or Orim's Chant - they create parity at best but can be extremely disruptive under specific circumstances so they end up altering how decks are built and played. They are hardly broken, format defining, or factor in significant numbers of decks; instead, their mere presence in the environment as options creates a sort of virtual threat - it should be addressed within reason, even if the cards aren't played that much.

[lordmayhem]

I'm sure that if you re-read my post you will note that I am not comparing it to Chalice of the Void, but rather stating that it will not have the same impact as Chalice of the Void had on the meta. This makes much of your post a lot of nonsense to me because I am not drawing this conclusion.

However, I agree with you 100% on the virtual threat idea.

[dicemanx]

I'm sure that if you re-read my post you will note that I am not comparing it to Chalice of the Void, but rather stating that it will not have the same impact as Chalice of the Void had on the meta.

it definitely has the potential to warp the format, though probably not as badly as Chalice did.

That's a comparison to CotV, in terms of ability to warp formats.

You are essentially using CotV to define what you mean by the otherwise ambiguous term "warp the format".

My whole post addressed this. Your position is very clear - you feel that Extirpate has the potential to "warp the format", although not to the same "extent". I'm arguing that cards that "warp formats" need to have an ability to generate significant (virtual) card advantage and/or significant tempo. Extirpate does neither, so I'm calling into question your use of the term "format warping".

[wethepeople]

After testing the card for a short while, I have learned that it certainly is not one to "warp" the format. It did however give me a great advantage when removing the correct card at that specific point in the game, but it doesn't look like it's going to do nearly as much as it is being hyped up to be.

Feedback from testing:

I used it early game a few times on Brainstorm, which was good, especially if my opponent had an additional in hand, but my current favorite is to Duress something out like FoW or Mana Drain, then deprive all of the remaining from my opponents library.

[lordmayhem]

Fair enough. I will clarify my statement.

I think it is absolutely clear that my comparison between the two is a negative one, conveying the message that Extirpate will NOT have the same impact as Chalice did, and as such, coming up with a dictionary definition of what can warp the format, is completely beside the argument. Additionally, at no point did the comparison address any of the points of either cards, and as such the comparison is not on ability, card advantage, tempo advantage or anything of the sort.

When Chalice came out, the format changed drastically. Now that Extirpate is in the spoiler, it is being hyped, as evidenced by a number of posts in this thread. I am merely stating that I believe that it will be powerful, but not as powerful as it is hyped to be. And as such, the impact it will have on the format, will not be as great of an impact as that which Chalice left.

I believe I have made myself clear. If not, your loss. I will not argue this point any further because it holds no significance to the discussion of Extirpate. If it suits you better, and is more understandable to you, my point can be summed up as follows:

I believe Extirpate is being hyped and it will not have the impact on the format that people are predicting and/or fearing that it will have.

[dicemanx]

OK, now you're changing your argument.

I think it is absolutely clear that my comparison between the two is a negative one, conveying the message that Extirpate will NOT have the same impact as Chalice did,

That doesn't qualify as a "negative comparison". You did say that Extirpate has the potential to warp the format, albeit not to the same extent as CotV. I'm not questioning this, which you're emphatically pointing out to me for some reason.

What you did clearly state was:

Extirpate will impact the format (and you clealy point out that the effect can be format warping).
Decks will adjust.
After the adjustments, the card won't impact the format very much.

Feedback from testing:

I used it early game a few times on Brainstorm, which was good, especially if my opponent had an additional in hand, but my current favorite is to Duress something out like FoW or Mana Drain, then deprive all of the remaining from my opponents library.

You need to elaborate on this. When you used it on BS, how was it "good"? Did you win the game because of that play, or despite that play? How did you guage the diffrence? When you removed Mana Drain or FoW, what impact did it have on the result of the games? Again, how did you establish the correlation between using Extirpate and the downstream effects?

[lordmayhem]

OK, now you're changing your argument.

Actually I'm not. It was either a case of you misunderstanding me, or a case of a poor choice of words on my side. Anyway you understood my points. I think that one of the first adjustments that would be made is more proactive play, like running a full complement of Duress. Which is the reaction to the Split Second cards in general.

[wethepeople]

Feedback from testing:

I used it early game a few times on Brainstorm, which was good, especially if my opponent had an additional in hand, but my current favorite is to Duress something out like FoW or Mana Drain, then deprive all of the remaining from my opponents library.

You need to elaborate on this. When you used it on BS, how was it "good"? Did you win the game because of that play, or despite that play? How did you guage the diffrence? When you removed Mana Drain or FoW, what impact did it have on the result of the games? Again, how did you establish the correlation between using Extirpate and the downstream effects?

Well considering that the player running Gifts was a friend of mine, he was able to tell me what he thought Extirpate had on him. We played four 2/3 matches. I won three of these matches using URBana Fish with four Exts MD. Several of which games I managed to resolve an early game Extirpate on Brainstorm (2), FoW (2), Drain (2), Undergroud Sea (1). The reason I chose just those four cards were that they were the ones most commonly to show up early game, and I wanted to get an idea of which card being remove can consistently give me an advantage.

I got Extirpate within the first three turns in seven out of those ten games, twice I mulliganed and later drew into an Ext, four other times I actually had it in my opening hand, and once I managed to topdeck it turn two.

Overall, our games went:
Match One: g1 (me), g2 (me).
Match Two: g1 (him), g2 me, g1 (him)
Match Three: g1 (me), g2 (him), g3 (me)
Match Four: g1 (me), g2 (me)

When I took out Brainstorm, I also was able to grab an additional one from his hand, the remaining two from his library. He mentioned that he needed that Brainstorm, because even I noticed that his hand was fairly weak, but even a Duress could put him in this situation, so again, I must point out that Extirpate is not looking nearly to what it is being hyped up to be. When I took out his counters, it wasn't that impressive. Two of the times I managed to do so I Duressed them from his hand, the others were taken after he had used them.

When I Wasted his U.Sea and then removed each of them from his library, I won that game fairly easily. It took a little while because it was game two and I was forced to recover from Pyroclasm, but I noticed with the lack of black mana sources he had much trouble setting up. This expectation proved to be just as I thought, though it will not be around for long because people can easily adapt by running Watery Graves, Steam Vents, etc.

All of the above games included sideboarding, no Empty the Warrens, for he was just running standard MDG, and a couple insane draws on both sides. Therefore I can't be sure whether or not Extirpate really determined the wins those games, because even when I did use Ext, I still lost some of the times.

That is just a brief explanation of what occured when usng Extirpate in these ten games. Obviously, this is not enough experience to be sure about the card, but with it only being released for just a few days, I have not been able to get that much testing in.

[lordmayhem]

Upon reflection, I'm thinking that Extirpate will actually have no large effect on the format. Extirpate doesn't really do much and like diceman said, it will simply pose a virtual threat, much like in my opinion Cranial Extraction presented.

I don't see mana bases changing much due to the threat of Extirpate either and certainly not bringing Ravnica Duals into the mix. Basics are heavily used nowadays anyway, and duals can be fetched out only when necessary, meaning that the Waste a dual, Extirpate, sounds a little unlikely, and quite frankly underwhelming.

Additionally, I believe that the "victim decks" will benefit from being Extirpated, due to deck thinning. So theoretically, what it amounts to, is that your opponent will be running 4 cards which will only be amazing in slim circumstances, much like Shadow of Doubt is amazing in slim circumstances, and you will get your deck thinned out as a result. These amazing circumstances will be Extirpated Brainstorms when a Brainstorm is needed, an Extirpated Yawgmoth's Will, possibly Extirpated Dark Rituals versus Combo.

Also, I highlighted on the highly probable chance of Extirpate finding its way into Fish-based lists. However, were this to happen, it means that Fish or Sui or any other deck with little men for that matter will be running 4 cards which present no real threat in the form of little men. Its disruption surely, but its not attached to a critter which can swing.

I don't believe this will be that great. I might be wrong, but I have a feeling that it will be tested and discarded.

[netherspirit]

Having read many of the posts on here, I feel that this card has a lot of potential but not enough to make it much more playable than the cards we already have available.

In my opinion, the card has three functions: discard, library removal, graveyard removal.

While it does all three of these in an OK and uncounterable fashion, which is very good, there are just too many better alternatives.

Discard - Duress is most definitely the best discard spell available.
Library Removal - Jester's cap for multiple threats and Extract for single threats.
Graveyard Removal - Tormod's Crypt, Leyline of the Void, Withered Wretch; they're all just as good and in many situations better.

The card is very promising as SB material against many decks, but doesn't deserve much maindeck attention IMO.

  netherspirit

[Harlequin]

Either the entire TMD community has gone insane, or posters are downplaying this card until they get thier foil playset but seriously ... OMG.

Unless...

What is staggering to me is the number of times the word "Unless" can be used before no one catches on.  The card's power is draw from all those "unless" situations.  Here is a summary of what I've heard:

This card is terrible unless you're opponent has a narrow win condition
This card doesn't effect your ability to win unless you take win conditions
This card is worse then Coffin Purge, unless they the have instant effects and/or you don't have BB up.
This card is worse then Meddling Mage/pithing needle, unless you don't know what your opponent is playing.
This card is worse then (insert card) unless your opponent is holding a counterspell.
This card is terrible unless you combine it with counters/discard/wastland effects
Takeing Lands is terrible unless your opponent is mana screwed.
....

Ok, we all understand Bla bla bla - cheap, instant, on color, split second ... so I don't need to get into any of that.

What I think is going Unsaid:

Card Advantage vrs Information Advantage. 
Consider the situation:  You play delta pass, I play delta pass.  At EOT you crack the fecth, I respond with (crack delta for a basic swamp) extripate on Polluted Detla (a weak card in any deck).  I look at your entire deck and hand.  And we go to your turn.  Where do we stand:  I am -1 card advantage... but I have gained Exact knowledge of your deck, hand, options/outs/answers, mana-screwablity level, the turn on which your expecting to win, and exactly what I need to do to race that or stop that, as well as what win conditions you are running and how easily accessable they are to you.  What do you know:  I'm playing black (and possibly blue), I may be running 4 maindeck extripates (I may have just gotten lucky)... and that you're now down X land scources.  So basically you know nothing. 

If all else fails, I know exactly what I am going to side in for game 2/3.

How could this be underrated?  Testing.  In testing you generally already have this information.  In a tournement when you sit across from Joey Local... you're not sure if they are playing casual.dec or some highly calibrated Drain deck. 

Ability to change Rolls (based on the 'Unless'). 

EARLY GAME:
In early game this card attacks the Engine of your opponent's deck.  Its no be secrete that in vintage the cards in your deck that actually ~win~ you the game are generally few and in limited copies (see ritual combo, and drain decks).  So what is the rest of the deck? its an Engine.  The cards you run 4 copies of are the meat and potatoes of how the deck fuctions.  Cards like Brainstorm, Mana Drain, Dark Ritual, Gifts Ungiven, Brainstorm, Thirst for Knowledge (possibly RIP), Mishra's Workshop, Goblins Welder, Dark Confidant, even fetchlands as mana fixers... These are all your turn 1 and 2 plays that help you set up the win on turn 4-5.  Now along with these 4-of engine cards, decks run plenty of restricted engine cards (tutors, moxen, etc) and Extripate has an Ice-cube's chance in hell of being good against those cards.  However my arguement is that in the early game, Extripate attacks the ENGINE not the WIN. 

MID/LATE GAME:
Now we get into "uncounterable" coffin purge land.  Now your changing the roll of the card into, 'you can't win out of your yard.'  Now you hold it back to face off against those Yawg, Recoup, Lotus, Timewalk piles.  You hold it back to snag that final Tutor or Tendrils in the yard (durring a will turn).  Remeber if your running 4 of this card, it is likely that you were able to take an inventory of their entire deck when you cast this card on turn 1 or 2... so you know their options, you know their weakness, you know their outs - in short, you know exactly what you need to use Extripate #2 on.

The Beauty of Extripate #2 is that no matter how much card advantage they muster... its going to resolve.  Even a card like Orim's Chant or Stifle don't have that going for them.  If your opponent is crafting that perfect hand un-interupted it will be able to deal with chant or stifle.  This is NOT to say that deck can't deal with 1 late game Extripate!! Lets just say that again, I'm not saying that 1 late game extripate equals a win.  This is actually a reiteration of the early game extripate's plan.  You've already weakened thier engine, and you've also noted all thier outs and options, between those 2 advantages gained in extripate #1... you've paved the way for extripate #2 to be game-winning.

There has been alot of talk about what card is most like extripate.  I would venture a guess to say that extripate is most like an unstoppable, unkillable, instant, 1 mana, Meddling Mage.  Here's why.  The first Meddling Mage you drop (esp game one) is typically a shot in the dark.  The card you choose to name is influenced by what you've seen your opponent do so far in the game (note: most of the early game cards that are played end up in the GY).  Meddling Mage is certainly more powerful when it comes to pre-emptively attacking a card that has not been played (like Gifts Ungiven).  But lets face it, Meddling mage is not instant, not unstopable, and has a double mulit-colored casting cost... so he's definately not 'strictly' better.   The corellation even carries over to meddling mage #2, usually played in the late game to amplify the effects of mage #1 (either by protecting it if its a good name, or nameing something based on new information).  I would say that Meddling Mage #2 is strictly worse than Extripate #2 in a vaccume because:  You still are not 100% sure if Meddling Mage #1 was good or not.  Extripate #1 lets you assess your (future) choices based on ALL the cards in that player's deck.


Let's All Hold Hands:

There is a quite long list of (im going to use a dirty word, so mod's please avert your eyes) Teir 1 cards that have synergy on both sides of Extripate.

Cards that Enable Extripate:
Duress (other discard effects)
Counterspells (but clearly why would a vintage deck need counterspells?)
Wasteland
Destruction/Board Removal (not bounce)
Dare I even suggest Mill Effects?

Cards that Increase in power AFTER you extripate:
Cabal Therapy
Meddling Mage
Pithing Needle

Cards that are just plan Synergistic with Extripate:
Spot GY Removal (like coffin purge)
Extract
Jester Cap



So What about Fish?

There are a few decks that are infact not hurt dirrectly (card for card) by extripate.  Keeping in mind, that there is more than just card-for-card advantage to be gained from game 1, turn 1 extripate.
There are 2 criteria for this.
 #1) Vast (Agro) Win conditions.  This means any deck that doesn't run a primary "4-of" win condition.  Combo may or may not fall into this catagory.
 #2) "Engineless" Decks.  This is your typical Hate.Dec, and the more jankier Agro.Dec

To meet both of these criteria your left with basically: Mountain wins Again, Fish, Stax* ; Shop Agro*, Goblins(?), etc.

*- although wastelanding a shop -> extripate ain't that bad, esp if you can back it with chalice @ 0 or Null Rod.  But on the whole we can call Shop.dec a bad match for Extripate.
 

Final Thoughts:
"Metagame Shift" and "Warping the Meta" -- First, to be clear I'll start with my personal definition:

"Metagame Shift" - A card (or group of cards) that caused Decks that are NOT running the card(s) to make adjustments to thier own deck to spesifically defend themself agains the card(s).  This must occure on a large scale (more than 50% of the decks not running the card will make an adjustment).

"Warping the Meta" - A card or deck warps the meta if every deck (upwards of 90%) must either run it or be designed to spesifically hate on it.

So I would say that Extripate will cause a Meta Shift: running Rav Duels, more basics, different fetchlands.   But I wouldn't go far to say that it will "warp" the meta.  In order for it to warp the meta some crazy deck will have to dominate as a result.

[TopSecret]

     This card is very good.
It can seriously mess with Dragon, and other recursion strategies.
Also, after a control player has dropped a Drain or Force on a spell,
you can start taking them out of their deck and hand.
This is not an unlikely scenario, as control players often try to sculpt
the *perfect* hand before going off, which will likely contain counters
that were already played.
     Yes, Extirpate's effect on the game can be 'random',
if you play it in a random way. But if you play Extirpate with a specific role
in mind, it can be very effective.
     I believe Extirpate may see play in hate decks,
and possibly Control Mirrors.

[lordmayhem]

I'm personally considering running 4 Extirpate over 4 Duress post sideboard in combo.

[Methuselahn]

Hmmm,  Does Extirpate suddenly make Skeletal Scrying better and/or a possibility?

[Khahan]

Hmmm,  Does Extirpate suddenly make Skeletal Scrying better and/or a possibility?

I don't think so. Extirpate has split second so you cannot respond to it w/ skeletal scrying.

I also believe that if this card does become popular (and it looks like it is going to happen) that welder based decks are basically done. 

[Phele]

I also find it amazing how devasting this card will be for some pretty long lasting draw staples like Intuition + AK and Thirst for Knowledge. To play both of the seem pretty risky with this design mistake around.

[dicemanx]

I think at this point we'll simply have to see from testing and tourneys if Extirpate will have as strong of an impact as some claim it will. This thread has examined the advantages and disadvantages of the card, but I think what it ultimately might come down to is whether the card is too erratic as a disruption spell to warrant a disruption slot. I'm a little skeptical that this will make it into main decks in the long run (not only because of consistency issues, but also because we still have redundnat archetypes like Fish in the format that won't be affected very much by this card), but the card will be too tempting not to try initially so we should hopefully get plenty of data to work with.

What I will say, however, is that Extirpate might make T1 more of a thinking man's game - deckbuilding decisions (and copying recent SCG lists) won't be so automatic anymore, and your in-game decisions have to be held under closer scrutiny because a misstep could lead to dire consequences - you cannot just build significant card advantage and plan on stopping everything with FoW or Mana Drain anymore. I know that the argument is that T1 is a skill intensive format, but there is no doubt that the format is still defined by powered archetypes that tend to be very forgiving of play errors in the short term, and also defined by decks that virtually play on automatic pilot, with Ichorid representing this extreme. The more skilled players tend to be more consistent in the long term, but in the short term anything can happen.

[Toad]

I've been testing my Gifts list against a Fish deck featuring MD Extirpate. Fish was often doing some Turn 1 Duress Force of Will, Turn 2 Extirpate Force of Will, and every time I was refraining to post "Thanks for that" because it was just helping me to dig into Empty the Warrens by removing cards that slow down my goldfish.

[OfficeShredder]

I've been testing my Gifts list against a Fish deck featuring MD Extirpate. Fish was often doing some Turn 1 Duress Force of Will, Turn 2 Extirpate Force of Will, and every time I was refraining to post "Thanks for that" because it was just helping me to dig into Empty the Warrens by removing cards that slow down my goldfish.

Why not scratch FOW for something that cantrips like peek then?

[Razvan]

This card is instant, too. That is really terrible news.

This will also cause a lot of headaches for CS. Not only does it run a set of integral 4-ofs (well, not anymore, old CS will really suffer though), but since you can actually remove all mindslavers, without the CS player being able to do anything, means that the game plan has to change significantly. Being able to slave them will be quite a task. This might require putting stuff like duress in the extra slots, which handles extricate nicely.

Also, this makes thirst for knowledge a lot weaker, and forces decks to turn to a more combo-ish kill. This card does little to stop that kill, thankfully.

[zeus-online]

I've been testing my Gifts list against a Fish deck featuring MD Extirpate. Fish was often doing some Turn 1 Duress Force of Will, Turn 2 Extirpate Force of Will, and every time I was refraining to post "Thanks for that" because it was just helping me to dig into Empty the Warrens by removing cards that slow down my goldfish.

Why not scratch FOW for something that cantrips like peek then?

'Cause i'd much rather have FOW against long.dec then peek?

FoW sucks against fish anyways, unless you got the absolute ballz of a turn 1/2 kill with fow backup.

/Zeus