Ritual Gifts

[dexter]

about my sb cards.

darkblast. is nice as a one off that can be gifted and in some situations kill bigger threats than 2/2s, its reusable, and dredge + will in hand can be fun.

tormods. well, ever since i started playing i had 2-3 tormods in sideboard, grave hate comes in handy in many matchups, the mirror, dragon, some cases oath, slaver, gifts the list can probabaly go on for a while. Even if i want to win fast it doesnt really hurt to bring in some hate if something goes wrong and i might want to disrupt my opponent from winning to fast.

defense grids, well i just like them, you can still cast mainphase gifts and win the next turn or on the same turn depending on gamestate. you basiclly just have 4 fow that you desperatly want to play in opponents mainphase the rest can be played in your own, i think it hurts the opponent more than it does you.

granted my sideboard decisions is more based on what my own current sideboard looks like, and as you already know i dont rely as heavily on gifts as you do so some suggestions might be abit off. can list my current sideboard, perhaps something there inspires you.

SB: 1  Rebuild
SB: 1  Duress
SB: 1  Repeal
SB: 1  Darksteel Colossus
SB: 2  Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1  Skeletal Scrying
SB: 1  Fact or Fiction
SB: 2  Defense Grid
SB: 1  Brain Freeze
SB: 1  Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1  Rushing River
SB: 1  Wipe Away
SB: 1  Darkblast

you have to remember that i run 1 maindeck c-wish and dont rely that much on gifts as you do when looking at it. and yeah, i dont run 4 maindeck duresses, i prefer a mind twist over the 4th main, something that probably isnt that good in the us since you seem to be kinda hot on misdirections over there these days, but a deck like this can often get a start with some moxes, a ritual and a twist which can allow a r1 twist for 4-6 cards and since you should have some more buisness spell on hand or have more buisness spells to draw its usually a good position to be in. Or just lategame tutor it up with a fow to back it up to go goldfish mode after that.

---

Well about changing gameplans, ive played the deck for almost 2 years now, i know in which matchup i gotta be aggressive and which to be controllish to win in, usually when i need to be the aggressive i bring in grids so i dont have to bother that much about what countermeasures they have, which means decks i know run atleast 8 instant disrupt spells and relies on drain mana for their win of they get to resolve it hurts my opponent more than it hurts me, i can live without my fows, a slower deck cant vs combo. Or against fish that likes to run cards like stifle, trickbind or other random stuff that i dont want to see in my mainphase.

---

Im not that keen on the 6 fetch config for some reason, never liked it, i can run out of lands to fetch with only 5 fetch so think that problem might occur more often with 6. especially in the kombo mirrors since those games tends take abit longer. prefer a basic land over that, it just be that im so used to playing vs staxx that i really, really,really want as many basics i can. Think this slot is mostly on personal preference, some ppl like an extra fetch some an extra basic.

think i answered most stuff now, kinda tired so might double check later.

[Scott_Limoges]

Just as a note, your deck is completely different than Ritual Gifts in that you run draw 7's - its close to TPS.  Awhile back, when it was popular, TPS ran a Gifts or two main as additional business to accompany the draw 7's but it never ran merchant scrolls or 3 Gifts.  I believe it also ran other cards like Scrying and FOF.

That SB looks good for a TPS list but not for Ritual Gifts.  I really can't think of a situation where I want to SB in draw spells like FOF or Scrying over protection like REB.  In the control match, I usually SB out a LED, a Vault, and an island for three REBs.

The agressiveness of the deck leads me to want to SB in options to fight the hate like t.crypt and fishy creatures.  If they do not disrupt me, I win quiickly anyways.  I never want to SB in disruption against there strategy - it seems counter-intutive.

I like defense grid against fish in theory and will test it.  Having uncounterable Massacre's and Pyroclasms along with uncounterable Gifts will be difficult to stop.

[Nantuko]

Hi,Im not american so my english  isn`t perfect.
I Have seen your deck a week ago and i like so much and i play a lot of matches whit it.
Can you post what u SB in the most important matchups??
I think its important how SB to play good the deck.

Thanks and sorry for my english

[Grand Inquisitor]

Can you post what u SB in the most important matchups

I'd be curious about this too.  For example, regarding posts by Dexter above, I understand his build is slightly different and may require a different SB plan, but I would think defense grid to be a terrible card for this deck's SB.  My reasoning is that this deck's clock is behind more streamlined combo decks, which would prompt it to want more interaction with them to slow them down, instead of less.  Duress is certainly a good choice, and something like most blasts, stifle, or even disrupt would be more appropriate as tools that could be brought against combo and mana drain based decks.  This would give you a better chance to choose roles depending on the rest of the hand and your opponents hand.  You could spend turn 1 dropping defense grid while your opponent wins, or at least sets up to win.

As for the SB Scott posted, I noticed a distinct lack of grave hate.  Have you tested much against Ichorid, or to a lesser extent, Dragon?

[diopter]

Can you post what u SB in the most important matchups

I'd be curious about this too.  For example, regarding posts by Dexter above, I understand his build is slightly different and may require a different SB plan, but I would think defense grid to be a terrible card for this deck's SB.  My reasoning is that this deck's clock is behind more streamlined combo decks, which would prompt it to want more interaction with them to slow them down, instead of less.  Duress is certainly a good choice, and something like most blasts, stifle, or even disrupt would be more appropriate as tools that could be brought against combo and mana drain based decks.  This would give you a better chance to choose roles depending on the rest of the hand and your opponents hand.  You could spend turn 1 dropping defense grid while your opponent wins, or at least sets up to win.

As for the SB Scott posted, I noticed a distinct lack of grave hate.  Have you tested much against Ichorid, or to a lesser extent, Dragon?

I will have more to say on this later, but for the combo matchup, I am currently testing Mesmeric Fiend.

[TimDeluxeIt]

I think mesmeric fiend is downright terrible. Extirpate, Duress, Unmask, and even Envelope are better.

[diopter]

I think mesmeric fiend is downright terrible. Extirpate, Duress, Unmask, and even Envelope are better.

Duress: 4 are already maindecked.
Extirpate: Cannot consistently or even semi-consistently affect your opponent's ability to either go off or stop you with FoW.
Unmask: Removing a black card in your hand from the game is unacceptable, as they are either all combo enablers which you want to play (Ritual, Will, etc.) or Duress, which, if you had in your hand and had priority to cast Unmask, you'd rather just play Duress and save the second disruption piece to cast later or on the same turn.
Envelop: Forces you into a purely defensive position.

I am not certain that Mesmeric Fiend is a better option over, say, Blasts - this is why I am testing post-board games against combo. But, from playing the card, I am certain that it is much much better than Unmask, Extirpate, and Envelop, and I am certain that it is not "downright terrible".

[TimDeluxeIt]

Being able to utilize a hate card against combo turn one is extremely important. Spending two mana to get a card out of your opponent's hand is not going to stop combo AT ALL. When you have two mana, you better be casting merchant scroll > force of will. Also, mesmeric fiend is a very narrow card. What else is it even marginal against? Not much. Hell even Stifle is better than mesmeric fiend.

[diopter]

Being able to utilize a hate card against combo turn one is extremely important. Spending two mana to get a card out of your opponent's hand is not going to stop combo AT ALL. When you have two mana, you better be casting merchant scroll > force of will. Also, mesmeric fiend is a very narrow card. What else is it even marginal against? Not much. Hell even Stifle is better than mesmeric fiend.

Consider the standard opening of turn one Mox, Fetchland/Sea, Duress against combo, which is the most powerful Duress you can play against combo. Many times that opening will leave you with an untapped Mox that you can't do shit with. If you're packing Fiends, then you have another poweful opening in turn one Mox, Fetchland/Sea, Mesmeric Fiend. There is also turn one Duress, turn two Mesmeric Fiend, or the less common but not impossible Ritual->Duress + Fiend on turn one.

After extensive testing, I have taken to Scott's point of view and dropped Mana Drain entirely. This deck wants to be the aggressor, even regarding disruption against faster combo decks. It runs cards like Rituals and Duress already, which get worse the longer they sit in your hand. You just don't want to be holding mana up for stuff like Stifle when you could be actively disrupting *now*, slowing him down *now* so that your mana is free next turn to disrupt him again or set up the turn 3 win. This is why I am testing Fiend - it disrupts *now*, it has synergy with the deck's natural mana development, it dodges enemy Duresses a hell of a lot better than reactive stuff like Stifle, it dodges enemy FoWs better, and it allows you to maintain your own gameplan.

[Scott_Limoges]

I'd be curious about this too.  For example, regarding posts by Dexter above, I understand his build is slightly different and may require a different SB plan, but I would think defense grid to be a terrible card for this deck's SB.  My reasoning is that this deck's clock is behind more streamlined combo decks, which would prompt it to want more interaction with them to slow them down, instead of less.  Duress is certainly a good choice, and something like most blasts, stifle, or even disrupt would be more appropriate as tools that could be brought against combo and mana drain based decks.  This would give you a better chance to choose roles depending on the rest of the hand and your opponents hand.  You could spend turn 1 dropping defense grid while your opponent wins, or at least sets up to win.

As for the SB Scott posted, I noticed a distinct lack of grave hate.  Have you tested much against Ichorid, or to a lesser extent, Dragon?

Side-boarding strategies seem generic when comparing this deck to another control deck.  Against control we want to remove possible dead or less powerful draws and increase efficient aggressive solutions like REB.  If Crypt is expected, X Pithing Needles can address this.  Against stax, again removing less power cards like duress (without a basic swamp main) or Misdirection for mass bounce.  Fish is a difficult matchup that requires something similar to a transitional SB - adding Empty the Warrens, Pithing Needles, Pyroclasms, and bounce.  Are there any suggestions for appoaching the fish matchup differently or any effective single card solutions?

Graveyard hate is an attacking strategy I've always frowned on in general - there's usually a greater weakness that can be exploited.  Against dragon, the best approach to attack its venerability is with instant speed despite the common graveyard hate misconception - Chain of Vapor is the best tool.  Against Ichorid, Pithing Needle in incidental splash damage against Bazaar.can address it.

This is the SB I'm using:

4 Pithing Needle
3 REB
3 Pyroclasm/Massacre
2 Empty the Warrens
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Hurkyls Recall
1 Rebuild

[BreathWeapon]

Another card for consideration is Sea Singer, it's a powerful weapon against Fish; perhaps it is superior to Pyroclasm and Massacre?

[Nantuko]

I think pyroclasm and massacre are superior to sea singer.

I dont like sea singer so much,its cost 3 mana and 2 blues that sometimes its a problem with this deck,and massacre-pyroclasm kill meddling mage,and that is very important for me,howewer im not sure how to SB versus Fish,I think play 3 massacre-pyroclasm isnt the definitive solution

[policehq]

I just want to say, as an Ichorid player, that Pithing Needle is the hate I'd most like to play against out of the options that are available right now (Leyline of the Void, Tormod's Crypt, Extirpate, etc.).

However, in my own experiences with testing Ichorid, I've found graveyard hate to be a poor plan against combo and Mana Drain decks. Leyline of the Void was probably 1:3/hit:miss, and that is only if I was able to play the enchantment as well as Chalice of the Void, an Unmask, and/or a Cabal Therapy that isn't blind.

That said, the only reason that I'm aware you would need 4 sideboard slots dedicated to graveyard hate in such a fast combo deck would be that you are having an especially hard time with your Ichorid match-up, which, with Ritual Gifts as opposed to Mana Drain Gifts, your chances are better, in my opinion.

-hq

[matthewCURBSTOMP]

I really don't see the purpose of Time Walk in this type of Gifts. Without the inclusion of Collosus or Empty the Warrens maindeck, I merely see Time Walk as drawing 1 card. Does anyone else think something along the lines of Fact Or Fiction would better fit it's spot?

[BreathWeapon]

Time Walk is an accelerent that cantrips, being able to drop an additional land and draw a card is insane in this deck.

[diopter]

Time Walk also has excellent synergy with Necro and Bargain.

[Smmenen]

Time Walk also is very good with Recoup.

[Liam-K]

The untap is insane.  Do more stuff before your opponent gets a main phase = yes.  Time walk belongs in this deck, and if you don't occasionaly run into a  gifts stack in which time walk is a tremendous threat you are not thinking far enough outside the box.

What are people's thoughts on Repeal as a sideboard strategy vs. Tcrypt?  I hate pithing needle, especially since I feel like when gifts hits critical mass it can blow through active crypts with it's standard armament (some GWS member's Long related SSG article showed a cool trick of letting crypt resolve in response to your yawgwill then filling it up with rituals... I do this with Gifts all the time now.  If someone opens their mainphase by yawging right into your crypt, it's probably smarter to use it in response to their first spell out of the yard, even if it is ancestral.).  Repeal feels good because it fights tormod in two ways: both by bouncing it and by storming very efficiently without use of the yard... on top of having better applications than pithing needle outside of tormod.  Insert obvious scrollable, cycles and pitches arguements here as well.

I am having trouble taking cards out of this deck when sideboarding as well (I refuse to play 61 cards and wanted the 4th gifts, so I don't have the misdirections).  I feel like it has a great game 1 but postsideboard has trouble adjusting, partly for this reason.  How are you guys sideboarding?

[BreathWeapon]

I don't understand the purpose of SBing against Tormod's Crypt at all, the deck has 2 bounce spells to either remove it or ignore it and generate storm; I would SB in Empty the Warrens before Pithing Needle against any control deck that SBs in Tormod's Crypt.

A card that deserves consideration is Cabal Ritual, it's useful in Gift's piles; perhaps in place of a Dark Ritual?

[diopter]

Re: Fighting Tormod's Crypts

The Crypts that really scare me are the Crypts that come from Slaver - they can set up their MIndslaver engine in the ~2 turns that their Crypt buys them. In this matchup, you can either go balls-out with 4 Needles (which serve double duty by shutting down other explosive engine like Welder or Mindslaver), or you can sideboard control elements instead while leaving 1 Hurkyl's Recall in the main (Hurkyl's over Chain, because Hurkyl's guarantees the Crypts are bounced even if Welders are on the board).

Most of the other Crypts will come from either Fish or Stax (you're unlikely to see Crypt in the combo mirror). Against Fish or Stax, you'd rather have Chains than Repeals because they will presenting more threats than just Crypts, and Chains are just more mana-efficient when dealing with threats. This is of particular importance when you are using the EtW transformation, since you want to be laying down Goblins ASAP and your manabase will be under attack - you will need every spare mana you can get.

Another card that I have been testing is Imperial Seal. I don't really like it in the main because you're not keen on another disadvantage tutor against Drain decks (plus space is tight), but it simultaneously adds outs to both discard (obv.) and graveyard hate (can fetch Necro (I've changed my mind on Necro and am now maindecking it), which can then give you the nuts), all while being a proactive bomb.

[Ged]

If someone opens their mainphase by yawging right into your crypt, it's probably smarter to use it in response to their first spell out of the yard, even if it is ancestral.).

If they see your crypt, they probably won't give you priority before playing all the instants and first sorcery.

[diopter]

If someone opens their mainphase by yawging right into your crypt, it's probably smarter to use it in response to their first spell out of the yard, even if it is ancestral.).

If they see your crypt, they probably won't give you priority before playing all the instants and first sorcery.

The first cards you will usually need to play post-Will are either artifact accelerants (sorcery-speed) or Rituals (instant-speed but each one needs one black mana, which usually entails that you will have to chain Rituals).

[Ged]

Yes, so if I can chain rituals, ancestral and a tutor, it's quite important to crypt before will.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that you probably won't have priority after the first spell, so crypting in response to their first spell won't be possible.

[diopter]

Yes, so if I can chain rituals, ancestral and a tutor, it's quite important to crypt before will.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that you probably won't have priority after the first spell, so crypting in response to their first spell won't be possible.

You can't chain Rituals without passing priority, because Ritual needs to resolve.

[Cunningbeaver]

Yes, so if I can chain rituals, ancestral and a tutor, it's quite important to crypt before will.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that you probably won't have priority after the first spell, so crypting in response to their first spell won't be possible.

You can't chain Rituals without passing priority, because Ritual needs to resolve.

You could respond to the first ritual with the 2nd before they have priority. And then continue the process. Much like what you have to do when you cast a spell then want to crack an LeD.  What I don't think is coming across is that it seems as though he is saying he wants to Will have it on the stack then get crypted, then ritual in response to his will.  Which is where it becomes important to realize that you can in fact chain rituals before they get a response.  Just that none will have resolved and all will remain on the stack so long as you have the mana other than ritual mana to chain them.

[diopter]

Yes, so if I can chain rituals, ancestral and a tutor, it's quite important to crypt before will.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that you probably won't have priority after the first spell, so crypting in response to their first spell won't be possible.

You can't chain Rituals without passing priority, because Ritual needs to resolve.

You could respond to the first ritual with the 2nd before they have priority. And then continue the process. Much like what you have to do when you cast a spell then want to crack an LeD.  What I don't think is coming across is that it seems as though he is saying he wants to Will have it on the stack then get crypted, then ritual in response to his will.  Which is where it becomes important to realize that you can in fact chain rituals before they get a response.  Just that none will have resolved and all will remain on the stack so long as you have the mana other than ritual mana to chain them.

You need to have 2 black mana to play 2 rituals out of your yard without passing priority, as well as two more mana to fetch your Tendrils (either via Demonic Tutor, or Mystical/Vamp + Brainstorm). That's 4 extra pre-Will mana that you need in your pool (extra meaning not counting the mana you need to actually play Recoup/Will). This does not happen very often - typically you will have 0-2 mana floating after you play Will.

In an ideal situation, yes you can fight the post-Will Crypt this way. But realistically, you cannot.

[Scott_Limoges]

Here is my lastest Ritual Gifts build.  The big changes are 3 islands, 1 swamp, and more bounce.  What do you guys think of the SB?

// Lands
    4  Polluted Delta
    2  Underground Sea
    1  Volcanic Island
    2  Flooded Strand
    1  Tolarian Academy
    2  Island
    1 Snowcovered Island
    1  Swamp

// Spells
    3  Gifts Ungiven
    4  Merchant Scroll
    4  Brainstorm
    1  Demonic Tutor
    1  Mystical Tutor
    1  Vampiric Tutor

    1  Ancestral Recall
    1  Time Walk
    1  Yawgmoth's Will
    1  Recoup
    1  Tendrils of Agony

    4  Dark Ritual
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mox Jet
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Mox Ruby
    1  Mox Sapphire
    1  Sol Ring
    1  Lotus Petal
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Mana Crypt
    1  Lion's Eye Diamond
    1  Mana Vault

    4  Force of Will
    4  Duress

    1  Necropotence
    1  Yawgmoth's Bargain

    1  Hurkyl's Recall
    1  Chain of Vapor

// Sideboard
SB: 1  Chain of Vapor
SB: 1  Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 3  Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1  Rebuild
SB: 3  Pithing Needle
SB: 1  Fire/Ice
SB: 2  Empty the Warrens
SB: 3  Massacre

[diopter]

@Scott:

Your sideboard seems quite adept at handling your worst matchups, Fish and Stax. Massacre is good against the Fish creatures you really care about - True Believer, Kataki, Meddling Mage. Having access to lots of bounce at all CC's is also a good thing against Stax. I have also tried boarding basic land in these matchups - I run 12 basic, 3 nonbasic land main and 2 in the side. It makes a difference, in particular it allows you to mulligan more aggresively instead of keeping shit hands that are good only because you have 2-3 land.

I have been testing Xantid Swarm in the side against Drain, have you tried this, and if so, what are your thoughts?

Current list:

4 Flooded Strand
3 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island

1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

1 Necropotence

1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
1 Chain of Vapor
4 Dark Ritual
4 Force of Will
4 Gifts Ungiven
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor

1 Demonic Tutor
4 Duress
4 Merchant Scroll
1 Recoup
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth’s Will

SB:

2 Chain of Vapor
3 Empty the Warrens
1 Lion’s Eye Diamond
2 Massacre
1 Rebuild
2 Snow-Covered Island
1 Tropical Island
3 Xantid Swarm

[Scott_Limoges]

I haven't tested swarm but I can see slight issues to adding a 4th necessary color in the mana base.  What do you cut when SBing swarm in?  With the speed of control, I like keeping FOW's in as they effect both sides of the table.

Also, I noticed that you cut LED from your latest list as I once did.  Comments?  After switching back to LED, I'll never cut this card again.

[Scott_Limoges]

Here is a small piece I wrote several months ago to describe the philosophies behind the card choices and their synergies.  It seems mostly pertinanet to the principle behind the discussion Steve wrote about Orim's Chant in Grim Long.  Most of the content you already know.

Abstract

The drawback of combination decks lie within the nature of their own function as an archetype - the combination of different cards to create an effect.  The objectives surrounding the establishment of a combo are finding the appropriate combination of cards, casting the cards, and finally protecting the cards.  These objectives can be categorized into three areas of deck functionality: consistency, flexibility, and speed. 

Text

Since Champions of Kamigawa, the card Gifts Ungiven has redefined the traditional definition of combination decks.  The card Gifts is an paradox of sorts in that Gifts is a one card combo - combining several combo components in one single card.  The card nearly eliminated the drawbacks associated with traditional by reducing the difficulties of establishing each above objective. 

The earliest Gifts builds were created in Europe that used Gifts to build the combination of tinker, time walk, and recoup to bring a colossus in play and attack twice.  Other builds, such as those created by Andy Probasco, utilized Gifts to construct the tinker, mana severance, goblin charabelcher, and recoup combination as well as the tinker, time vault, recoup flame combination.  Later, it was discovered that Gifts could produce a lethal tendrils via Yawgmoth's, acceleration, and recoup.  Steve Menendian then built a Gifts deck to exploit the tendrils combo to use in conjunction with the tinker, time walk, recoup combination with merchant scrolls. 

Unfortunately, the common drawback from each of these Gift builds was the large mana requirement, typically between 6 to 7 perminate sources. Each of these builds tried to minimize this requirement by using mana drain to create mana; however, the net result produced a greater mana intensive "combination" to protect and cast the gifts.  In turn, the time required to establish the necessary mana increased and the combination speed decreased, in terms of turns. 

In creating a new version, I've kept these past barriers in mind:
- mana intensive to execute combination
- mana intensive to protect

Along with benefits of a single card combo:
- reduce narrow combo specific cards which opens additional slots for disruption/protection, tutors, and mana acceleration or...
- increases deck functionality in consistency, flexibility, and speed.

The ideology in creating a more efficient version revolves around the use of quick disposable mana and cheap protection.  With this in mind, obvious bottle necks can be removed for efficient enablers.  Mana Drains were removed for Duress.  The investment of Duress early could remove threats without increasing the mana requirement during the "combination". The notorious stereotype associated with combo decks is their ability to ignore the majority of an opponents strategy.  Duress assists in picking the remaining relevant threats with efficiently. Narrow singletons were removed for Dark Rituals (singletons include tinker/colossus, burning wish, and rebuild).  The tendrils combo has provided the greatest functionality (consistency, flexibility, and speed) The addition of Rituals not only assist in casting Gifts but also provide reusable mana via the tendrils kill.  Other additions were synergetic to these enablers and included Yawgmoth's Bargin, Necropotence and Lion's Eye Diamond.  A Gifts locating LED, lotus, yawgs will, and recoup only requires two mana to instigate and will usually generate 6 mana and 5 storm (note that two mana is the minimum mana required to cast Gifts with a ritual EOT, and will be available to start the combination the following turn).  If a Ritual was used, the yawg will will generate 8 mana and 6 storm ect... 

Other card choices are standard and have been established, although it should be noted that merchant scroll's function is important both before and after casting Gifts.  The ability to recast scroll from yawg's will to find either brainstorm or mystical tutor in pursuit of tendrils and storm is a common play.  Also, if the opening hand contains additional acceleration instead of a scroll or tutor, a Gifts may find a different combination containing a tutor instead of LED and so on...