Oath of druids in the current meta.

[Harlequin]

I only have enough time to address R/D at the moment.

I absolutely love R/D.  It has won me games that no other card could win.  I've Merchant Scrolled for it.  And i never ever side it out.  There is really no "plan" with R/D it just digs you out of binds by allowing Silly Double Wills, while restocking your creatures in the process.  If there was a "plan" for R/D it's this:

The set up is... for one reason or another you have NO creatures in your deck.  Be it Jester's Cap, or some brutal combination of Swords and Hide/Seak - but it happens.  The situation also works if you like only have trike left because one tyrant got pitched to FoW and the other got swords or something.
Here's what you do:

Make sure you have enough mana in play - and be reasonably sure you're opponent doesn't have a playable counter.  Then oath your deck.  Cast Kros. Rec. targeting just Yawg.  Draw it and Yawg.  Cast Time Walk, Fastbond, and all your mox, cast oath if for some reason you don't have one.  Now out of the yard cast Research for: Yawg, Krosan Rec, Tyrant, and Trike.  Cast Flash of Insight for 4 - or Double Ponder.   This lets you stack your deck.  Depending on how much mana you have, and how safe you want to play you can do some things.. but basically - just use Flash or Ponder to make sure Tyrant is the top card of your deck when you pass the turn - and you either draw Trike or Yawg for turn.  You can stack your deck so it won't be hard.  Go to the timewalk turn, Oath in Tyrant and draw Yawg.  Cast yawg going to infinite mana and then DT, Ponder, or Gush for Trike.... and TRIKE ARMS TO THE DOME!

Play some orchards and give them dudes. 

[Malhavoc]

R/D would also allow and infinite turn combo by milling your deck, and let you win just by attacking with tyrant, just in case your opponent has multiple gaea's blessing in the deck and brain freeze isn't an option.. anyway, it's just a win more in this situation. And keeping R/D maindeck I think is quite useless since a Jester can easilyl remove both creatures and R/D. If we really want to run it, I think the best option is in a wishable sideboard: after all it's a card which is seldom useful (but sometime lifesaving). Having 4+ cards among creatures and wishes grant us to survive a single jester. On the other hand, however, the sideboard is quite tight, and even finding a single slot is not so easy.

[Rock Lee]

@Malhovoc:

He runs 3 creatures. 2x Tyrant and 1x Triskelion. So it IS the 4th card. (Decklists and creature discussions are on previous pages)

Also. you can't take infinite turns unless you run two R/D's or two Krosans. And even if you did, its not reliable.

The infinite-trike-kill works the turn you oath. Attacking with Tyrants is not necessary.

[Solomox]

I am a big fan of any infinite kill.  The infinite Trike kill is fun, but I still prefer the Eternal Witness/Time Walk infinite turn kill.  I realy don't know which is more effective, as I have only tested the Witness/Walk.  Any thoughts?

[Malhavoc]

Three creatures are just too much.. 1-2 are more than enough. That's why I've not count 4 with R&D.

And yes, you can go infinite with just 1 R&D:

- oath your deck
- flaskback krosan (which gets removed) for yagwill
- draw and cast will (which gets removed), replay all jewelry, tolaria (you need some mana for the loop), a creature if it was killed, cast walk (which gets removed) and so on.
- cast cunning (which gets removed) -from the grave if necessary- for R&D
- cast R&D for: walk, ywill, krosan, cunning (all of these cards are rfg now). Note that R&D gets removed too since we are under ywill
- pass (we are under walk, so we play another turn)

- oath your deck, cast krosan (which gets removed) for ywill
- draw and cast will, replay from the grave (they have been milled thanks to oath): walk, wish for R&D, cast R&D for the same 4 cards
- attack, pass (we are under walk effect)

Continue as needed.

I'm not saying it's sooo usefule, just that it's possible, and a good way to win if you are well protected with counters and want to win on the spot against another deck running Blessing (Oath? Tyrant should be enough anyway to bounce their beasts unless he's running Simic Sky Swallower)

BTW, the tyrant-trike kill is nice, but wishing for freeze is good enough anyway. And I would hate to oath Trike as my first creature. I would always prefer to run two creatures if I'm not confidente enough running only one. BTW, running too many creatures makes Deep Analysis weaker since it' far more difficult to mill one when oathing.

[Everrid1234]

I dont get why you play Eternal Witness maindeck. Its totally random, oathing up a Witness with a small graveyard is just a wasted turn. I would definitly play 2 Tyrants.

[Nehptis]

I'm intrigued about the 2x tyrant and trike build, as well.  I understand its effectiveness when Tyrant hits first and you can go infinite w/ Insight.  But, what is the plan when you Oath up a Trike first?

[Harlequin]

Kill things?   There have been multiple games where I really really am hopeing to hit Trike First.  In the NE where I play, there are many Shop/Welder decks out there.  With Ray and Scott both playing "Staxless Stax" (or more accurately described as welder-trix) hitting trike first ensures that I will have another turn.

Also I have won a game because my opponent necro'ed to 3 life and I oathed in Trike.  I would have lost If I oathed in Tyrant (I actually had brainstorm and trike in hand... so there was no randomness). 

Also with 3 creatures you give yourself 2 out of 3 odds to oath Tyrant in first.  The other 1/3 of the time, you just have to not lose in one turn.... and you have a trike as a blocker/pinger.  The next turn's oath is gaurenteed to hit Tyrant.  This is no worse than any other Oath deck I've seen.

[Sextiger]

Triskellion will always be a fantastic creature, almost regardless of the situation. (null rod/needle excluded) Even if your combo is slowed down for a turn, its beneficial to knock out some game altering creatures like Confidant/Welder/Shaman/Etc. 

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

Some one asked what happens if you oath out trike 1st? Oathing out trike 1st really isn't that bad, if nothing else I'd rather have him on board early than witness. He should be able to prevent lethal from occurring that turn in a lot of situations, but I do like 2x tryant 1x trike for the odds.

[Malhavoc]

I really can't see how Trike can be better than a tyrant (unless of course we have both, but also having 2 Tyrants is pretty gg): if we are afraid of a confidant or a welder, a Tyrant with just a couple of spells available do the job as well. And against combo, oathing Trike is like giving him a free turn. It can maybe be better just against aggrocontrol, but what if with the second oath activation they sword the tyrant in upkeep and we can't avoid it? We are left with a weak win condition; another VERY good thing of running 2 tyrant is not having the need to care too much about removals. And running three creatures is just begging for finding dead draws early.. something which I see acceptable only if I expect a huge amount of Jesters.. and in that case I would probably just opt for siding R&D or Pllatinum/Sundering with Tinker, which are way stronger tinker targets.

[Nehptis]

I've been testing Tyrant Oath with Trike on MWS lately instead of Angel Oath (Razia / Akroma) and noticed a few things.

1) Opponents tend to enter the scoop phase against Tyrant Oath more often than with Angel Oath.  Even when I don't have the combo players seem to scoop to the Tyrant.  Most players try and fight thru Angel Oath. Sometimes even after Akroma hits and I show them a handful of counters.  There's something about the bouncing everything expectation that seems to intimidate.

2) Having not used YWill in Angel Oath (no synergy with Blessing) I forgot how effective YWill is in also intimidating opponents into the scoop phase when it resolves

3) I'm not yet completely sold on Trike.  The infinite mana Trike kill is nice.  But, Oathing Trike up first in a tight match isn't fun, unless I have a Timewalk.

[Rock Lee]

Said alot about winning with Cunning wish + R/D, then trike being weak.

You don't need Cunning Wish. Just win with trike.

Its 1 card less in the deck, one less in the side, and with infinite more utility than brain freeze. Also, taking infinite turns is irrelevant if you only need one max. The cases you stated with winning wish Cunning Wish + R/D are all winnable without Cunning wish and a trike. ie. Cunning wish has no purpose.

In the case you described about a swords'd Tyrant in response to the oath activation. You oath up your 2nd tyrant =P

Running 3 creatures allows you more consistency, not less. Not to mention Tyrant is the most hardcastable creature Oath has ever seen.

I suppose if you could assume you are always playing against islands, titan is a better MD creature. Note: Harlequin played MD Titan for a long long time. But given Fish & Staxx, Trike trumps. Not to mention he's a royal pain in the ass for your opponent if he's on the board before a dryad hits the table. And ultimately, he removes himself if he's in the way of a win. Something no other good artifact creature does.

::EDIT:: As a side note about Trike vs Tyrant. In the absurdly large amount of playtesting Harlequin and I do, 50% of the game I'm playing (with whatever deck we're testing against) if he's oathing, I'm chanting "Dont' be Tyrant, Don't be Tyrant", and in the other 50% of the games I'm chanting "Don't be Trike, Don't be Trike." Alone, that speaks to me of the necessity. In none of those games were I happy to not see a Titan/Plats. Any deck & player worth its salt can deal with either.

[TRb]

1.) In all of your games you didn't mention your fastbond. Did you like it? I have found it to be a dead card.
2.) Echoing truth. Did you ever wish it was wipe away? Was the "every other permenant" part useful?
3.) Trisk. Did you like him? I never really liked him and was thinking of cutting him and adding a research // development to the SB so you can go infinite turns. In testing, it was a bad flip.
4.) If you want to keep him, would Triskelevous be better?
5.) How did you feel without the Leyline of the Voids in the SB?
6.) Tinker. This seemed like a very underpowered card. Why is it run and do you still want it?

[Malhavoc]

All my words about rnd weren't about how it's good, just about the fact it's possible to have an infinite turn combo. Anyway, i'm the first thinking it has not much use.. I don't even run it myself: wishing freeze is usually enough and wins immediately instead that after oathing trike as well. Wish has the added advantage of being toolbox. Trike against combo and combo control is just a wasted turn. It can be however an interesting sb option against certain decks indeed. Most of the times however it doesn't do anything a second tyrant would have mad much better. And 2x tyrants on the board are gg as well.

[Nehptis]

I’ve been doing a lot of testing over the holidays with Tyrant Oath.  Here’s a few more comments, questions, suggestions.

I’m now convinced that Tyrant Oath is more consistent and powerful than other Oath builds.  However, it is much more complex to play than Akroma based Oath.

I’ve been playing a build without Gush and without Cunning Wish/Brain Freeze.  Opting instead for drawers like Ponder and the Trisk kill.  I’ve played against a few Gush Tyrant Oaths and believe the deck is better off without Gush.  It seems like Gush is forced into a deck where it doesn’t belong just because it’s an unrestricted free draw spell.  Spells like Ponder and Deep Analysis are better suited for Oath than Gush.

Whoever came up with using Flash of Insight is genius.

QUESTIONS:

1)   Can one of the Wish / Brain Freeze players give us a pro / con breakdown of CW/BF vs. Trisk?  I’ve convinced myself through testing so far that Trisk is a good win condition.  But, I’d like to know more about why BF might be better.

2)   There was some discussion about the benefits of Research/Development.  Specifically, about using it to replay Yawg Will.   My thinking is that if you resolve Ywill once, then you should be winning / have won.  I realize that Research/Dev has other uses.  But, the comment about Ywill got me thinking.  Has anyone tested Recoup?  Yes, it is red.  But, with Orchards and a Ruby it should be playable.  The target could be Ywill.  But, I was thinking that Time Walk is the best target.

[Harlequin]

@ Brain Freeze.
I don't like the cunning wish board option is not that good.  I think I would just rather maindeck Brain Freeze.  Even the 1 extra card in the sideboard would be too heavy a hit in my oppinion.  It also makes you want to run extra stuff in the board that is not really that good. In the 2nd half of this post, I'm going to talk about a very interesting observation and realization - and it will be realavent to this.

@ Recoup. 
I think this card is better applied to Choke Oath, where you run City of Brass, Gemstones, and Orchards; which opens the door to maindeck chokes.  In a bluebased Tyrant deck Recoup is ok, but Krosan (which would likely be the card to cut) has many many more applications outside of Yawg.  Most notably making the deck-myself oath a viable stratigy.

@ Gush vrs DA.
I like gush because it can be broken.  Not on the scale of GAT - but its still a busted draw engine none the less.  It gives you mana when you havent played a land drop, and it gives the illusion of being GAT.  DA is only going to draw you cards if you run Drain or if you've already oathed. 

@ Flashback cards, Ponder, and Gush.
I think you might be decieving yourself with "cool things."   Truth be told, you should never loose the game post-oath... so you can free up deck space right there.  Currently I have room for:
4 Gush
4 Brainstrom
2 Merchant scroll
2 Ponder
Thats a solid draw/filter package.  Cutting Gush that for flashback cards and a few extra ponders doesn't seem to take the deck in the dirrection of a control deck.

///////////////////////////
Recent Tinkeree related musings:

There is are 3 roles the creature to be tinkered for (the Tinkeree) can serve.

1) Infinite Combo - What does this creature add when combined with the Tyrant-Moxx2? 
2) Board Presence - How effectivly does the creture "delay the game" until you can resolve oath.  What does it litterally "Bring to the Table."  Also if you roll this creature fist, how well can it guarentee a next turn.
3) Tinker FTW! - How comfortable do you feel when it comes to using Tinker to actually WIN the game?  In other words, if it is impossible to oath (extripate on oath, game 1 chalice for 2), can you rely on the creature to get there.

Lets go through the list:

Platinum Angel--
Combo = F
Presence = B-
FTW!=  B-
Plats both delays the game indefinatly, and swings for an airbourn 4 dmg.  However, he is next to worthless when you can replay him.

Sundering Titan--
Combo = D
Presence = B+ (or F against stax)
FTW  = B-
He crushes GAT.  He can combo for a non-win "I kill all the lands."  But he has extreme liability against anything running a 5-color manabase + welder.  As a winner, he is about as strong as plats... he delays thier mana, hits for a whoping 7 a turn, but has zero evasion.

Darksteel Colosus --
Combo = F
Presence = B-
FTW = A
Zero combo potential.  He certainly can meat-sheild a ton of damage while standing around.  And when it comes to unstopable tinker-wins... he takes the cake.

Triskellion --
Combo = A+
Presence  = A-
FTW = C-
Infinite dirrectable damage? Yes please!  As a delay card, he hits the board and doesn't care about how much mana I have or if he is tapped, or anything.  He always can do his 3 damage.  He can also easily "remove himself" to make way for another oath.  His weakness is that you can almost never rely on him to get in the 20 damage needed for a win.  Against a 4/4 dryad or midgame Tarmogoyf he can only be used to delay the game. 

Triskellavus --
Combo = A+
Presence = B
FTW  = B-
Has identical combo potential to Triskellion.  Infinte mana is infinite mana... so who cares that he costs 10 mana per 3 damage as opposed to 6.  He has notably weaker board presence because he costs mana to do his damage.  Without 3 mana, you can't really do the same things Trike can do.  The advantage over trike is that he has evasion - and can simultaniously attack AND provide a combat deturance (so long as you leave mana open).  He also works well against spot removal, because I can still keep presure up with three flying Mog fanatics.  Where Trike is just... a lighting bolt.

A quick note on Hardcastablility ---
I don't consider this an important enough factor
/////////////////

Conclusions: 
It seems that there are many creatures that can fit two of the three rolls extremely well.  But as far as I can tell, Triskelavus is the only 'Jack of all Trades' choice.  I have been doing some testing with him main deck, and tried to force myself to find and resolve tinker - just to see how it pans out.  And the results so far are promising.

[Nehptis]

Good observations and comments..thanks.

So are you running both the Freeze kill and the Trisk kill?

@Recoup - I think I'm going to start testing it to see if Recoup -->Walk or Ywill happens enough and if it is needed or just win more.  I will not replace the Krosan spot.  Spot is TBD.  Considering cutting Mystical Tutor.  Scroll works well enough.

@Gush vs DA - I don't run DA.  I just listed it since some players do. I agree that DA is only good if you run Drain (I don't) or have already Oathed.

@Gush - I prefer 4 BS, 3 Ponder, 1 AR for my draw.  That's more than enough draw.  Plus I run 2 Merchant Scroll.  Except for the AR, I don't like having "blind draws" in Oath.  Especially with 3 creatures.  I prefer to have select draws with BS and Ponder. I fill the extra Gush spots with more control.  If I were to include Gush I think 2 max.

@Trisk vs Triskv - The need for evasion has never been an issue for me.  However, the free activation cost of Trisk has helped out many times.

[Rock Lee]

@Recoup
In my testing with Recoup, I found that Oath rarely has huge supplies of mana necessary to make recoup worthwhile. I would run Regrow before Recoup any day. And Regrow is honestly pretty darn bad at the moment.

@Gush
I've tried running without the Gushes, and going for the more impulse-oldschool-route for card selection versus advantage. I found that I was slower versus GAT, often wishing I could just draw more cards. And often Ponder would just find another blue card for misd/fow.

As a sidenote on Gush versus more ponders. Chalice for 1 is running around brutally murdering Superlong & GAT. Oath has the privilege of not facepalming to a Chalice for 1. Going ponder-heavy isn't going to help you in this department.

Gush is too obscene at the moment to deny. Its a playable spell++ for tyrant, and is randomly amazing with Fastbond.

@ Trike versus Triskelislut
I was initially opposed to the idea of triskelivus over triskelion. However in testing, it was obscenely amazing. and would often swing for the win over your spirit tokens. Not to mention it easily delays GAT two turns longer for lethal.

Triskelivus is akin to Ravager inthat they are the king of combat. A triskelivus beats any situation where a Trike would be put on its heels or drawn in, including against trike himself.

@ Freeze
I believe Harle is not running the Freeze kill. as it is horrible. In my mind, if you were to go the Freeze route you should max out Merchant Scrolls and at that point you're skimping on your utility and adaptability of Oath. Just play GAT.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

So basically trikevus is the best thing to happen to oath since tidespout. I've been testing an oath variant utilizing the gush engine and a 4x drain, 4x fow control suit. The deck is a monster when it comes to its typical good match ups. You have a ridiculous number of plays against fish, and breaking out of turn 1 triple 2 ball was ridiculously easy in the stax match up. Resolving an early game scroll is gg for platinum control. Running tool box flash on insight, regrowth krosan reclamation, engineered explosives, r/d, tinker, and wipe away is ridiculously versatile. The deck still has some trouble with the 6x duress in the meta, but its better than it was.

I also took the time to test a platinum oath control variant as someone suggested. This seems to be a pretty weak build. It has even less of a "win now" button than akroma razia in the current meta. plats beats for the same as trikevus with out any versatility. not to mention that pacting a force on oath of druids and then putitng the  trigger on the stack and oathing up platinum is a terrible idea with the amount of stifle in the meta.

currently I'm testing this list:

1x fast bond
4x scroll
4x gush

4x fetch
2x tropical island
2x underground sea
2x island

5x moxen
1x lotus
1x ancestral recall
1x timewalk

4x orchard
4x oath
1x krosan reclamation
1x tidespout tyrant
1x trikevus

4x brainstorm
4x force of will
4x mana drain

1x demonic tutor
1x vampiric tutor
1x imperial seal
1x mystical tutor

1x regrowth
1x tinker
1x engineered explosives
1x flash on insight
1x yawg’s will
1x research/development
1x wipe away

0 ponder. I've just found scroll to be better
I've definitely had issues with orchard not being an island for gush, but then again, everyone likes an easy force pitch (It's also kinda' like playing it for free).

the sb is still in flux but I’ve decided it needs 2x SSS and 4x leyline much to my dismay. Any suggestions would be appreciated

Oddly enough I even tested gifts ungiven in the build in place of flash of insight. Situational it was very good. There were some really funny tidespout timewalk y will r/d turns happening. You could get oath of druids into play with some clever piles, which flash of insight couldn’t do. One really lame play were I cast gifts for 4 moxen because I had tyrant and vus on the table w/ no moxen .Ultimately the numbers went with flash of insight, which feels right seeing as I’m not playing combo. Definitely something worth testing in other builds though, don’t immediately write it off.

The numbers!

fish 80/20 in our favor

stax 90/10 our favor.
Triple sphere is not good enough to beat you! Triple sphere waste isn’t either. Triple sphere triple waste strip is.

ss goyf about 55/45 our favor this match is a pretty thought intensive game. I was expecting this to be the same as fish, but some times you just can’t out run turn 1 goyf, nor can you take fastbond damage to gush out of it. Stifle is very good against oath.

Platinum control 75/25 our favor.
As long as you play smart this match up is incredibly winnable. Your win condition trumps plats so if you get it on line you win, no extra thought needed. Any early scroll gets wipe away, the next pact they cast wins you the game. Tinker trikevus holds oath 2x platz, then need every win condition they have to beat through it, responding to echoing truth still stalls through 1 platinum. Sometimes they are just going to blow out and counter everything you do, so be quick.

I have yet to test the gat matchup, and this build can get to the 2-0 bracket easily so it’s an important thing to test. I feel this build is the summation of the current consensus of this thread and everyone one is running a similar list, running the best of the best in everyone’s testing. So if anyone has any numbers or sb strategy for this I’d appreciate a post. I’d imagine running the same engine a win condition that beats there’s and more control means it shouldn’t be too hard.

[Harlequin]

Hey, Its me again.

I finally convinced one other team mate on our 3 person team to play oath.  And we ended up splitting for First and Second at a 43 person even at Myriad games.  The deck was basically the same as it has always been: 0 Drains, 3 MisD, 2 Scroll, 2 Ponder.  So there isn't much more I can add in terms of analysis.  We did use Triskelavus instead of Trike.

Jer is currently compeating with Oath at the mana clash, so we'll see how it does there.  So Keep an eye out for a large tourney report coming over the next week.

@ H3x - In looking at your build, I'm highly sceptical of your consistancy.  Your deck runs TWO less lands (I run 5 fetches and 3 trops), AND it runs Drains over MisD, and it has 2 scrolls over 2 ponders (4 scrolls 0 ponders vrs my 2 and 2) ..... I find it almost impossible that the deck consistantly not lose to missed land drops with a 2cc curved hand.  I think, while stax is a favorable match up... its about 70:30 for my deck - and your deck is going to have a worse match then mine.  Your curve is so focused on 2 that it seems like a single wasteland or chalice @2 will set you on the ropes. 

[TRb]

Some changes that I have found: Gush was all to often sitting in my hand. I love love love it when it works, but getting stuck with a random fastbond or gush was enough for me to warrent cutting one for a more toolboxy scroll. I then cut the Tinker (Just couldn't get there) and Fastbond (leaning away from heavy gush dependancy) for some Dureses (I couldn't seem to power through some of the raw cards (Will/Gifts/Fastbond/Recall/FoW) and this helps) I also cut the EE for another Duress but am semi unhappy about that. I plan on testing the differences.

After all of that and some heavy testing against GAT I also cut the Sundering Titan in the side. In my testing, GAT is usually the Dryad version, which basically loses to a Tyrant anyway. It is VERY difficult for them to counter the bounce and keeps their mana base in check or their life total low if they have a Fastbond.

Then I switched the Echoing Truth for the Wipe Away in the side. As much as a mana matters, it really came down to the fact that if you are using Wipe Away either the game depends on it and it cannot be countered (scroll for wipe away on DSC) or you are bouncing a dryad/goyf for some life total. There is alot of GAT in my meta with some Slaver so my meta warrents it.

Overall, I REALLY like the list. I cannot comment on how much better triskelavus is because that the card I started with (It seemed logical to me at least). Posted for easy reasons.

• 4 Forbidden Orchard
  5 Fetches (3 Delta 2 Strand)
  3 Trops
  2 Underground
  2 Islands (1 Snowy)
  6 Mox + Lotus
  
  4 Oath of Druids
  2 Tidespout Tyrant
  1 Triskelavus
  1 Krosan Reclaimation
  1 Flash of Insight
  
  4 Brainstorm
  3 Gush
  2 Ponder
  1 Ancestrall Recall
  
  4 Force of Will
  2 Misdirrection
  3 Duress
  
  1 Yawgmoth's Will
  1 Demonic Tutor
  3 Merchant Scroll
  1 Vampiric Tutor
  1 Mystical Tutor
  1 Time walk
  1 Research // Development
  1 ????
  
  //SB
  4 Oxidize // Energy Flux (undecided. Flux is better for Aggro, but Oxidize is better for the slowrollStax....)
  2 Extirpate
  1 Pithing Needle
  1 Platinum Angel
  1 Blazing Archon
  1 Snowy Island
  1 Echoing Truth
  1 Hurk. Recall
  2 T. Crypt
  1 ??? Temp. Sold on a fourth Duress, but uncertain.

The list does not include a card. I think it should be a Oath-esque card. I am leaning towards Tinker. However EE seems good because it will let me solely rely on Oath. Tinker is in there at the moment and is doing Okay.. I suppose.


@hvndr3d y34r h3x: I feel your numbers are inflated in your favor. Against Stax (I have tested both Aggro and Smokestax) It is favorable to you but not a push over. Way to often they get the dice roll and lead with mana killers. Your lands point to the fact that double sphere or sphere + LD would keep you from hitting 2. Once a Oath does hit, the game might as well be done though.
Here are my matchup #'s (Tested the matchups but not exact #'s)
Stax
   -Smoke: 85-15: As explained above. They cannot deal with a resolved oath. Often their spheres hurt them quite a bit aswell so do not fear letting them resolve with mana heavy hands. On mulliganing, I look for an Oath and lands. Forces help, and tutors are very good too. Do not keep a very slow hand because they can lock the game out in about 4-5 turns.
   -Aggro (5/3): 75-25: You will have a smaller clock, but they are supplying themselves with creatures for oath and less mana wreckage. A resolved Tyrant should be able to get there simply by blocking a bouncing the larger creatures. Here you should remember Oath goes both ways.
GAT
   -Dryad - 90-10: Their win condition revolves around getting a large creature with counters. Wipe away solves plenty of those problems. Very early on (opening hand) decide to go for speed and force out their counters or to slow roll them. Slow rolling is more safe but it is not insanely difficult recover from a 5 mana instant fight. A tyrant seals the deal and a Trisk buys you at least 3 turns. Don't expect to lose, but still try to keep a counter open because Yawg's will or Time walk can seal it. Basically, be hezident but keep it up.
   -Goyf - 60-40: This is hypo. Haven't tested it. But it would seem that large creatures are better than HUGE creatures. I would expect to go balls to the wall here and keep your life total in check.
Slaver
   60-40: This is a waaay  underplayed deck (for good reason IMO) but my playtester likes so here we go: they have 4 Forces and 4 Drains for counterspells. Therefor, without UU up you should be in decent shape. Only one counter is needed for back up if they cannot drain and even without one, cast the Oath. essencially all their blue cards are bombs and the never want the to go away. It will be a fair trade. Just keep them off Tinker or huge creatures and you will be fine.

Thats all the matchups I have tested but thats just my thoughts.

EDIT: Wipe away does not cost 2 mana. This is good when up against various Chalices at 2.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

@ harliquin

personally I'd imagine a build running 3 misd wouldn't perform as well as a build running 4 mana drain against stax. I DEFINITELY thought about the amount of 2cc spells in the deck, running wipe away over ET is an easy answer not to mention EE and the standard oxidize sb. The deck deals really well with wasteland as long as you don't make stupid plays. Against unknown, always fetch basic island the fact of the matter is that crucible strip happened a lot, and its easily broken out of. I've played oath for a pretty long time I have kept my mana base pretty similar. gush and drain aren't the only plays available in the deck. not to mention scroll for recall and a lone brainstorm are great for land drops. Not to mention that all you need is a land and a mox to win the game. I tested a lot of games, definitely enough to pick out a fluke, especially against stax. I'm confidant in my build, by no means am I trying to convince you to change yours if your happy with it.

sorry to end this so quickly, I'm in a bit of a hurry

[EVG]

mods please delete the post -- i misposted thanks

[ELD]

Hmm while I like the Tyrant, I have found in testing that the Akroma/Colossus is a much better solution. A needle can destroy the whole Tyrant combo, but it cannot do much against an Akroma or a Colossus. That is just my opinion but after testing against a variety of decks this is what I have found so far.

What makes you think a Pithing Needle destroy the whole Tyrant Combo?  Please elaborate as this statement makes absolutely no sense to me. 

[Rock Lee]

Hmm while I like the Tyrant, I have found in testing that the Akroma/Colossus is a much better solution. A needle can destroy the whole Tyrant combo, but it cannot do much against an Akroma or a Colossus. That is just my opinion but after testing against a variety of decks this is what I have found so far.

I just want to let you know what you said. That a "permanent" stops a combo based off infinite boomerangs... =P

The great beauty of Tidespout tyrant is that the only way to hate against him is "shroud". Even removal only actually removes him if you choose to let it, and brainstorm is a counterspell to removal AND saves your creature.


About my showing at the Mana Clash 2. I realized my side against Pure combo and control is lacking, and have adjusted the sideboard accordingly. The deck is still a menace, and I expect great things to come in the future.

[Nehptis]

For those of you that posted numbers, IMO both of them are inflated in Oath's favor.  If those were true then Oath would be winning every tourney out there.  Fact ='s it is not.  GAT decks have enough control to keep Oath in check and can draw into their combo ahead of ours in at least 50% of the cases.  Also, the Fish matches aren't 80/20 wins.  STP is a very real threat even with R&D on our side.  The match is in our favor, but no way 80/20.

Regarding builds:
Heavy Gush builds.  We talked about this before.  The deck gets to be too close to GAT with a inferior land base to support Gush.  I can see where Drains are good in a Stax heavy meta.  But, for those of us not in a Stax heavy meta then MISD is far better.
Duress and/or Thoughtseize not ideal in Oath.
1 Tyrant is a mistake even with R&D. 2 Tyrant plus Trisk or Trikev is ideal in my testing.
Tinker is a mistake in the MD.  I can see Tinker / Angel in the SB.  But, Tinker MD with 1 target, always felt win more to me in the Tyrant build.
Regrowth, we talked about before as well.  There are just better cards to fill that spot.
Ponder is amazing!  Digging three deep + another shuffle effect is exactly what Oath needs.  Scroll is good.  But, a balance of Scroll and Ponder is ideal IMO.
I'll ask again, who came up with using Flash of Insight?  Such an amazing part of Tyrant Oath!

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

@nehptis

-Again, the numbers are pretty good. Gush is working, ridiculously well. Yes it runs the gush engine, but I repeat, this is not a "gush deck". Gush is not needed for the win, you need  an enchantment as a piece of aggro on the other side of the table, or and an artifact ,this is easily accomplished with 4x tutor + yawg's will. I'd like to stress the fact that is specifically mentioned that I did NOT test the GAT match up. STP, I've rarely ever had a problem with this card, you can out play stp with a single brainstorm if your running tyrant (or simply having 2 mana open with trike vus and hitting vus for 2 in response), in addition, all of my sb's I've posted have typically run 2x SSS. STP has NEVER been a real threat (an annoyance possibly) . Typically the problem I encounter has been meddling mage on oath, previously loam/shop was the answer (or crop rotation combat tricks) scrolling (opposed to digging with thirst or impulse) for wipe away and casting oath is pretty easy fix compared to any other oath list to date. The numbers on fish are very good.

- The amount of tidspout/ tidespout compliment creature is really very hard to critique. The optimal plays are very situational and very meta dependent. If you'd care to explain your reasoning or back your claim up with some data, so we can see where your coming from, we'd greatly appreciate it.
- tinker. I really don't fault anyone for not running tinker main deck, it just doesn't fit into some people's play style , but having more game winning plays available to your is really not a bad idea. It's definitely won me a fair share of games.
-Regrowth. I've cut a lot of things from this deck and regrowth has stuck around(for now). It gets your rolled over game winning spells, moxen, timewalk, broken spells (i.e. recall), negates a FOW while maintaining card advantage. Some decks just aren't built to utilize this card. Again, I wouldn't fault anyone for running it.
-Ponder. ponder is really amazing, but i really don't think a shuffle effect is incredibly necessary for current oath builds. I've found I actually prefer to have one of my oathables, trikevus, in my hand. This ensures that tyrant gets oathed out and two moxen for the repeated hard cast just saves you a turn. I do really like ponder, because it does increase the card quality of your draws, but when it came down to the numbers, I stuck with 4x scroll instead of 2x ponder 2x scroll.
-As for who came up with flash of insight, its been a pretty common card in oath builds for a long time. If memory serves I believe harlequin brought it to our attention, I apologize to whomever if I am mistaken.

p.s. If you'd like to tell me my numbers are still wrong, please do so in a PM so we can get back to productive bored discussion. I'd be happy to detail some of the common game situations to the best memory for you.

[Wobbles]

General observations:
Hey, I played a Tyrant Oath list to the top 8 at Black Gold on Sunday. Thanks to everyone on their
discussion of the deck and it's strengths in this thread. Prepping for the event involved being largely dissatisfied with Long/Gat's matchup's against the various aggro workshops without just completely dropping the ball against Goblins and visa versa. I last minute audiabled into oath with a few unconventional choices due to a meta expectation that the field would be largely workshop/aggro oriented with well piloted GAT lists, typically running psychatog. This meta was fine for the Swiss, but SuperLong did way better then our testing suggested (6 in the t9) and it's a pretty terrible matchup because you need to dig for both combo pieces and giving them tokens speeds up their clock considerably. Also, I didn't bother trying to find a Research/Development as none of the modern aggro workshop decks bother to run Caps and Dawn of the Dead/Fish seemed buried under a mountain of GAT hype right now so Swords wasn't a likely problem. No regrets there.

Disruption Package:
The first thing I did when looking at the lists posted here was look for a better disruption package.

Engineered Explosives/Wipe away/Chain of Vapor/Rebuild

First thing, hyrkles/echoing are clearly not answers to chalice for 2, and as such weren't considered.  That said, most of the aggro workshop builds aren't running chalice, and if they are they won't be playing it for 2 game 1 against you unless you do something like lead with forbidden orchard and even then maybe not. The bigger problem is chalice for 1, as then it becomes much harder/impossible to dig, especially for builds not running Gush. Of course, gush is also fairly awful in those matchups because they wasteland your islands, but I digress. Engineered explosives in this slot doesn't make a lick of since to me. You can't search for it with merchant scroll, so you effectively have to either tutor for it with a restricted tutor or heavly dig for it, both of which are very hard to do against stax. Even then, it can't destroy chalice if they have any kind of sphere in play because you have to use colored mana to play it (which is almost always). I can see the argument for it if you're worried about ETW tokens, but then echoing truth is a much better choice because of merchant scroll. I went with Chain of Vapor, because despite the fact it doesn't answer chalice for 1, at least it doesn't cost 4 with a sphere in play.

Misdirection:
In testing against GAT's running tarmogoyf (3 tarm, 2 psych), resolving oath was simply amazing, as the GAT player just couldn't win anymore without Time Walking. Misdirection was good/great in that matchup, but completely aweful against anything with creatures, as it was a completely dead draw. I wound up cutting the MisD's (the fact they were taking proxy slots didn't help), but they definately deserve way more slots in the sb, as they are absolutely increadable against combo.

Duress
Duress effects were simularly underwhelming, because you couldn't gain tempo with them (GAT is great about taking advantage of the delay generated by discard because it pumps their creatures at the same time, you don't have that luxury), and duressing against a workshop aggro deck is just frustrating, because they typically have two Sphere's in their opening hand. The big advantage of duress is that they do make evalutating your role in a matchup alot easier to figure out. A deck leading with an Underground Sea and a brainstorm could be GAT, Long, or Fish, and Oath requires early game decisions that hindge almost entirely on your ability to distinguish between the builds. T1 in Colorado is few and far between, so having familiar players with familiar decks isn't a luxury I could afford. Ultimately, I'm pretty sure they were the wrong choice (I played 4).

Mana Drain:
I know alot of modern Oath builds are cutting drain, but they work so well against multiple decks that I can't imagine running less then two. Drain provides two essential rolls in the deck, disrupting Stax by both countering a card and giving you enough mana to power through spheres and allowing you to hardcast a creature against GAT. GAT player's don't need to play out creatures into your oath as psychatog becomes popular again, you need to either resolve an oath with an orchard in play or be able to drain a gush. This isn't a fool proof plan, but at least it is a plan against decks that aren't just going to play a creature for you. The common occurance in this tourniment (15 proxy) is that the budget aggro decks would run into anti-aggro teched GATs/Super Long and lose in the early rounds. Part of this is that Goblins won the last two major vintage events at the store, shifting the meta wildly. Your results will almost certainly differ.

Daze:
Daze is pretty much everything you want in a counterspell. The ability to first turn ponder/brainstorm/oath and have a counterspell that goes one for one is godly. I wanted them in every match I played (R1 Aggro Stax, R2 Ultra-fast combo, R3 Long, R4 Gat, R5 Draw, R6 Long). A first turn Sphere really slows you down ( Dazing a Sphere and having a stax player still burn for one off Workshop is just fabulous), messing with mana can bottleneck Long and extra counterspells means you get to resolve Oath against Gat. The tendancy to bounce my Islands on turn one or two mades Gush even more lack luster. Daze and gush are probaby mutually exclusive. That leads me to my next point, the draw package.

Draw package:
The entirety of my draw package was 4 BS, 3 ponder, 1 Vamp, 1 Imp. seal, 2 Merchant Scroll, Ancestral, 1 Flash of Insight. The rest of the slots typically taken for Gush were replaced by more disruption. This felt like too little draw, but beyond going to 4 ponder and 3 merchant scroll, I'm not sure about the next best card (Chalice for 1 really hurts the 8 cantrip plan). Mystical tutor doesn't seem very strong (especially not stronger then imp seal), intuition/ak seems slow and awful against workshop, and gush has problems against wasteland/magus while competing with daze for your islands. A really tempting idea is to run some sort counterbalance/top configuration (turning off 1 cc cards seems great right now), but I'm not sure how you find all the slots. Even cards like impulse, remand or peek seem great right now. Yawg. Will was also extremely underwhelming, and I'd be interested in hearing people's thoughts about it's strength in the deck.

The kill:

I was mostly happy with the triskelavus/tidespout combo all day, as it was particularly strong against GAT and Shop, with a random win against the long deck by comboing out. That said, I was still never thrilled about hitting the Vus, and them having a single counterspell can buy them three turns easily. Malhavoc makes some interesting points about running fewer creatures and a cunning wish plan, and it certainly sounds good. The obvious problem is that any sort of yard hate reaks absolute havoc with any sort of recursion plan. Simularly, tinker didn't make it in as the expected meta doesn't have that hard a time bouncing or welding a big artifact creature. Triskelivus certainly makes the tinker better, but I still don't see winning on the back of it alone.

Anyway, I learned that oath is an interesting meta choice, Daze is amazing, and the true meaning of Christmas.

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

Congrats on top8ing Sunday!
it seems that a drain oath list was a strong choice for you.
I'm not sure if chain of vapor is a good plan in oath, seeing as they can use it against you to hit your oathable and oath its self. Daze seems like a good meta call as well, something we haven't thought of in a while. R/d is a very good card, not only against cap, but as mavloc illustrated, its good for fow pitch retrieval broken yawg's will turns, and krosan reclamation.

Your draw engine seems a bit shady. Neither brainstorm nor ponder net you any cards, although they do increase your card quality. Also, I wouldn't consider top decking tutors as part of your draw engine; they net lose you one card.

The brain freeze is a good kill that puts up consistent results. The one thing I feel is suboptimal about the kill is the deck slots it takes up. Tyrant 2x moxen and kill card to instantly kill your opponent. Cunning wish/or oathable your kill card needs to be in the same places to function. Cunning wish with wish SB does give you a lot of utility, but I've always felt it limited my SB options. I've been testing tyrant trikevus (formally trike), I've found it gives me an alternate play than oath and hard cast, about the same consistency as brain freeze, without being anymore or less disruptable, and allowing me to run a SB I feel comfortable with