5C Baghdad Bob (working title: Lava Grunts)

[brianpk80]

Vroman, nice ideas.  Having toyed a deck similar to this for a few months earlier in the year, I'm going to throw out one suggestion: Weathered Wayfarer.  I see you already have a lot of utility lands which Wayfarer can grab on demand.  (Ab)using Wayfarer enabled me to drop the Bazaar count down to one singleton and I found it flowed better.  I rarely had a problem with the "if opponent controls more land" restriction.  And since he filled the hands with land so much, I put a LoA in as well.  I fetched it more often than I fetched Bazaar.

Good luck,

-BPK

[vroman]

Weathered Wayfarer.  I see you already have a lot of utility lands which Wayfarer can grab on demand.  (Ab)using Wayfarer enabled me to drop the Bazaar count down to one singleton and I found it flowed better.  I rarely had a problem with the "if opponent controls more land" restriction.  And since he filled the hands with land so much, I put a LoA in as well.  I fetched it more often than I fetched Bazaar.

how many wayfarers did you run? doesnt seem too bad. share the list?

[brianpk80]

how many wayfarers did you run? doesnt seem too bad. share the list?

The full list is languishing on my other virus-ridden PC.  I'll see about getting you a copy once I disinfect that.  But to answer your question, I ran 4 Wayfarers.  Back in the heyday of Gifts, they were my one-drop answers to Tinker (Maze of Ith) and EtW (Tabernacle).  Karakas played the same role v. Oath.  If a utility land was lost, ideally I'd put it back in the library with Grunt and re-fetch.  Wayfarer+Grunt oddly enough functioned as a Crucible of Worlds, with the restriction that Stripping too many of the opponent's lands would negate the Wayfarer trigger. 

-BPK

[vroman]

I tried weather wayfarer, and was underwhelmed. the one drop is decent against flash, but then so would serra zealot.
Ive cut mindcensor. 3 drops are just a little too hard to consistently use within the framework of bazaar draw engine. and mr. owls effect is sadly not quite worth it anymore w flash turning out to be a flash in the pan (GET IT?)

I used this list this past weekend and won a mana drain at local tourney:

4 brass
4 factory
2 badland
2 cavekoilos
2 riftstone
1 tombyawg
1 strip
1 b-ring
5 mox
1 lotus
4 bazaar
4 dconf
4 lavaman
4 plowshare
4 jotgrunt
4 leyline void
4 duress
1 d-consultation
1 v-tutor
1 crops
1 balance
1 recall
1 timewalk
1 ancient grudge
1 lifeloam
1 mazith
side
4 hideseek
4 resistor
3 condemn (find me a better 1c kill spell that can hit black creatures)
2 sudden shock (fuck you magus of the moon)
2 visheretic

I "tested" Thoughtseize in this tournament, by just imagining every time I cast duress, how much better itd be as lorwyn-duress. it wouldve been much, much better. too bad starcity wants $17.50+shipping a peice on pre-orders.
I also have been trying Sammy pale curtain main over leyline. its not bad, but I knew there would be 2-3 ichorid decks at this tourney, so stuck w the more hardcore hate.

[LordHomerCat]

What kind of black cards do you need to kill Vroman?  Theres lightning bolt, which can't kill a tog but kills most other things.  Beyond that, Lightning Axe can be sure to kill Negator or Gathan Raiders, although it costs you another card which is probably not good enough.  Otherwise, well, condemn it is I guess?

[vroman]

dark confidant
also ichorid/zombie token and maybe dimir cutpurse or withered wretch.
lightning axe is interesting suggestion. though Id play fiery temper before that.

[zeus-online]

Lightning bolt? or lava dart...although i think it's a bit too narrow right now.

/Zeus

[Prometheon]

Lava Dart is awesome against Flash if you can relaibly use the flashback, as it takes 2 counters to stop, and removes their haste, which gives you another turn to rummage up 2 blockers.

[yespuhyren]

And I don't think there is any doubt in your mind that Thorn of Amethyst will replace Resistorb in that deck?

[vroman]

thorn is definitely in. I might play both. or glowrider.

[WhiteWolf]

I suggested Glowrider on the previous page and I still think it would be better than Thorn because it keeps the beats flowing while disrupting. If you would put them maindeck (but I rather think you would replace Sphere with them) Thorn could replace Sphere in the board.

I see you dropped Extirpate again. I must concur. I tested them a little and they were a little underwhelming. The more global effect of Leyline seems more useful. I wonder however: does Leyline never interfere with feeding your Grunt? Is Bazaar enough? On the other hand against non-Ichorid, but still graveyard dependent decks you don't have to mull to a Leyline because you also have 4 Grunts.

Good call on Condemn. I'm in doubt however between Condemn and Cruel Edict. Oath seems on a rise in my metagame and Simic Sky Swallower can be a b*tch to get rid of. Condemn doesn't help with that. Also, Chalice @ 1 disables Lavamancer, Plow AND Condemn (all your best critter removal) if that would ever matter.

You gave your opinion about Thorn but what about the other two cards that could fit in this deck: Thoughtseize (would make Extirpate more viable again, but Leyline still seems better) and Gaddock Teeg?

I still like the deck very much. It's one of those decks that can keep evolving and changing with new metagames and new sets.

WhiteWolf

[KiernanM]

You gave your opinion about Thorn but what about the other two cards that could fit in this deck: Thoughtseize (would make Extirpate more viable again, but Leyline still seems better) and Gaddock Teeg?

He already mentioned that Thoughtseize will replace Duress. 

[policehq]

Actually, testing this deck sometimes, Leyline is absolutely awful maindeck, and once you try to get an active Jotun Grunt and Grim Lavamancer on board, you're sure to be disappointed also. When Thoughtseize is available, I'm testing Extirpate.

[The Chosen One]

http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=41118

Vroman- Here's a 1cc card I came across you might like. It's an instant at least and depending on what exactly you are playing against, it can kill alot for just 

[vroman]

http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=41118

Vroman- Here's a 1cc card I came across you might like. It's an instant at least and depending on what exactly you are playing against, it can kill alot for just 

I find it hard to believe this is better than lightning bolt, which can also hit players.
Im now playing 4x sudden shock sb, which has worked quite well. maggie moon is a real bitch otherwise.
Ive also cut maindeck leyline. right now Im trying sammy, but extirpate is also on my radar. extirpate is probably quite good, bc its a serious skill testing card.

[Liiva]

I played an almost non-powered (only Mox Jet) version of this deck a few weeks ago since proxies aren't allowed where I play.

I played the following list:

   // Lands
3   Bloodstained Mire
3   Scrubland
2   Badlands
4   City of Brass
3   Mishra's Factory
2   Riftstone Portal
1   Barbarian Ring
4   Bazaar of Baghdad
1   Maze of Ith
1   Strip Mine
2   Polluted Delta

   // Creatures
4   Grim Lavamancer
4   Dark Confidant
3   Aven Mindcensor
3   Jotun Grunt

   // Spells
4   Swords to Plowshares
1   Balance
1   Demonic Tutor
1   Vampiric Tutor
1   Life from the Loam
4   Duress
1   Lotus Petal
1   Mox Jet
2   Extirpate
1   Crop Rotation
1   Ancient Grudge
1   Mox Diamond
1   Powder Keg

   // Sideboard
3   Engineered Plague
3   Smother
4   Hide/Seek
2   Sudden Shock
3   Tormod's Crypt

The extirpates sucked pretty badly all day, they didn't do anything at all. The powder keg is there as an answer to Empty the Warrens. Also Aven Mindcensor is too slow and his effect doesn't seem that powerfull. I thought I would be the aggro deck but I noticed in almost all my games that I was pushed on the defense and starting to stabalize at low life only to see my opponent topdeck/tutor for a broken card (Time Walk to buypass my maze  of ith or yawgwill).

Here's a small report of my tournament day:

Can't remember actually if we played 5 or 6 matches, i can only remember 5 and i'm not sure if all the details are correct.

Match 1 vs a fairly new player playing mono-R goblins:
Game 1 I manage to block his lackey at the start of the game and kill most of his dangerous goblins, Game 2 I manage to stay alive quite long but get overrun at the end, Game 3 I kill him in the extra turns after time was called.

Match 2 vs flash rector:
Game 1 I get combod out fairly fast, extirpating his dark ritual did nothing. Game 2 I Hide/Seek his only tendrills and plow his tinker-collosus, Game 3 is kinda the same as game 2, i cast 2 Hide/Seek at the start removing his win conditions but i don't have enough time to kill my opponent so we draw

Match 3 vs URB slaver
Game 1 A Darksteel Colossus swings me once before i stabalize with a Maze of Ith, he tutors for time walk and finishes me off. Game 2 we exhaust eachothers hands and he almost wins by hardcasting a slaver, i have Hide/Seek though and win. Game 3 a Veldalken Shackles shuts me down, my Hide/Seek gets countered and I can't do much..

Match 4 vs UB Masknought with stifles
Game 1 he drops a mask and a dreadnought follows shortly, it hits me once before i get a Maze of Ith online. A time walk follows shortly and we go to Game 2 where i kill all his creatures with smothers, plows and hide/seeks. Game 3 he goes pretty broken again, i'm at 2 life and I think he had 3 creatures in play (conf, cutpurse and nought).. i have 1 card in my hand which is a land. I take my turn and draw another land, then activate bazaar to see another land and... a balance. Balance resolves and i start to stabalize. He plays a dark confidant and topdecks an ancestrall recall which gives him a time walk and once again my Maze of Ith is bypassed.

Match 5 vs my brother with BR TMWA
I hate blood moons...
Game 1 i get a mox diamond, mox jet and riftstone portal online so his magus of the moon isn't much of a threat, his creatures are no match vs Jotun Grunt (though it took a few turn before i depleted all his creature destruction) and i win shortly after. Game 2 he gets a blood moon online (and i'm sitting with sudden shock in my hand) in turn 2, Game 3 blood moons kill me again.

So overall i was a bit dissapointed, alot of matches were pretty close.
I think the deck is a bit low on disruption, my opponent can just play their game while i try to search answers for them. Anyways, in a few weeks there's gonna be a tournament again but with 5 proxies allowed this time so i could play the full set of moxen and lotus so i was wondering if this deck evolved since the release of Lorwyn (Gaddock Teeg, Thoughtseize, Thorn?). Btw, flash and ichorid are pretty rare in my meta, also 0 workshop decks because they're so expensive.