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									 « Reply #180 on: February 12, 2008, 10:36:39 am »  | 
								
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							Has anyone tried out Rakdos Augermage? He looks pretty sweet acting like a duress effect everturn after he waits a turn and isn't too shabby in combat thanks to his first strike. At worst he pitchs to unmask at best he can help you maintain your hellbent poppets and keep the opposing player's options limited. I might be trying to be too cute including him though, it might make the deck look like an old type 2 rakdos deck    I've tried him and find he's good unless his casting cost. . 2 black is out of option except you find a fine manabase. .  
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									 « Reply #181 on: February 28, 2008, 05:29:01 am »  | 
								
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							Heya, My TMWA matchups are great vs. GAT, Long, and Stax/MUD.  It's decent vs. Flash and Ichorid.  Goblins and R/G Beats give me a little trouble, but I can usually out play them.  However, I feel super weak vs. Oath.  Anyone have some good TMWA solutions to Oath?  Its growing popularity means I need to prepare for it.  Any ideas?    Peace, -Troy  
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									 « Reply #182 on: February 28, 2008, 04:41:55 pm »  | 
								
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							Ronom Unicorn!
  Seriously, the best bet against Oath is proactive disruption like Duress and/or Thoughtseize.
  Goblin Bombardment's good if you can resolve it, but you still need a way to kill them. Perhaps Mishra's Factories. 
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									 « Reply #183 on: February 28, 2008, 06:28:23 pm »  | 
								
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							Heya, Ronom Unicorn!
  Seriously, the best bet against Oath is proactive disruption like Duress and/or Thoughtseize.
  Goblin Bombardment's good if you can resolve it, but you still need a way to kill them. Perhaps Mishra's Factories.
  Unicorn is a thought.  Goblin Bombardment is interesting, but if I was going to do something along those lines I might choose Jinxed Idol instead.  I'm currently running Green (for Tarmogoyf) so I suppose Krosan Grip/Deglamer/Naturalize are choices as well.  Not sure I like many of them tho.  More thoughts?   Peace, -Troy  
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									 « Reply #184 on: February 29, 2008, 08:13:37 am »  | 
								
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							if your running green and white then use ray of reclamation.  I like getting 2 for 1s, don't you? 
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									 « Reply #185 on: February 29, 2008, 09:45:51 am »  | 
								
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							if your running green and white then use ray of reclamation.  I like getting 2 for 1s, don't you?
  Actually, I'm not running Green and White, just green to splash goyfs.  Ray of Revelation (which is what I think you meant) would be a good card tho if I were running G/W.  Thanks   Peace, -Troy  
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									 « Reply #186 on: March 01, 2008, 11:30:07 pm »  | 
								
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							Green is a competitive color this day since the present of Goyf. . Everyone try to put it in as additional to be a faster clock or something. . I myself find it's fun to play kind of 'Dawn of the Dead'        aggro control deck. . But as I remember from what TMWA's creator. . This deck was called TMWA because : 1. It contains    2. Say no to blue x    x 3. Could be supported by other colors especially     and      4. It's fun to play it. . I'm not sure if we put green inside, this deck still can be TMWA type. . Since it will be a brand new deck and maybe it'll have a brand new name too. . One big issues that I want to make you remember is : Previous TMWA thread was closed because it need to be refreshed. . The 1st list from the 1st page is totally not similar with the last list that is discusses that time except for Moxen. . So in my opinion, this thread is started by R/B TMWA (hellbent disruption style) and R/W TMWA (man prison style) or R/B/W (solution style). . Maybe we can just start a discussion based on that fact. . Just a thought from a TMWA fans and player. . EDIT : Tyrant Oath is in its golden age this time. . The latest R/B version has handled GAT, Bomberman and many decks in the meta but still has many big problems to face Oath. . What can we do about it? --mancer--  
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									 « Reply #187 on: March 03, 2008, 01:09:52 pm »  | 
								
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							Oath definitely needs to be addressed and I think the best color combination to do it will be R/B/W or R/B, so this may come full circle. Certainly with the addition of cards like Gaddock Teeg and Tarmogoyf, the definition of TMWA has loosened up a bit. I tend to think of it as non-blue fish, which was the general moniker it earned when it debuted a few years ago. That's not to say that every deck that wins with creatures that does not contain blue is to be considered TMWA, just what I consider the general guidelines for consideration.  
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									 « Reply #188 on: March 30, 2008, 08:49:49 pm »  | 
								
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							All Right. I PMed Myriad asking some specifics about this list, but I'd like a general opinion. Does it need more hate for Oath specifically? Will it work at all?
  BR ‘The Mountains Win Again’
  Land (17): 4 Bloodstained Mire 2 Polluted Delta 2 Badlands 4 Swamp 1 Mountain 1 Strip Mine 3 Wasteland
  Artifacts (7): 1 Black Lotus 1 Lotus Petal 1 Mox Ruby 1 Mox Jet 1 Sol Ring 2 Umezawa’s Jitte
  Creatures (17): 4 Dark Confidant 4 Magus Of The Moon 3 Grim Lavamancer 2 Jagged Poppet 4 Simian Spirit Guide
  Enchantments (3): 3 Chains Of Mephistopheles
  Instants (5): 4 Red Elemental Blast 1 Vampiric Tutor
  Sorceries (11): 3 Duress 4 Cabal Therapy 3 Thoughtseize 1 Demonic Tutor
  SB 2 Rack And Ruin 4 Extirpate 4 Leyline Of The Void 1 Jagged Poppet 1 Diabolic Edict 1 Umezawa’s Jitte 2 Pyroblast
  
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									 « Reply #189 on: March 30, 2008, 09:56:03 pm »  | 
								
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							I'm gonna be updating this list very soon. 3 big questions on specific cards I have are these.
  Jagged Poppet? Worth it? Garbage? Need to build around it more?
  Grim Lavamancer? Same question.
  Correct Discard suite?
 
  
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									 « Reply #190 on: March 31, 2008, 01:41:07 pm »  | 
								
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							Thanks for the interest, Noah. I've PMed you my thoughts, but I'll post them here as well for all to discuss.
  My thoughts on the latest R/B builds are as follows:
  They need to take into consideration the newest build of Flash (at our local 48 player event last weekend, Flash was 25-27% of the metagame). TMWA builds need to deal with control and combo and still knock the block off "random" assorted creature decks. That being said, at least 70% of the metagame is control and combo, most of the control has lots of combo elements.
  Here's what I'd change from your list at present:
  Strip Mine and Wasteland are not the huge game changers they once were. I'd cut them, at least the Wastelands (Strip as a black tutor target could still be strong), especially in a deck that runs Magus. You need more Swamps in order to be able to function under Magus at present. I was running 6 and I don't think I'd go any lower. You really want to be able to drive out the Magus on turn 1 and not worry about shutting yourself off from black. Sol Ring is not worth running in the build as you have it, since all it powers out is Magus, and usually that on turn 2. I'd replace it with an off-color Mox or another Swamp. 
  Grim Lavamancer just isn't that good right now since there aren't a lot of small creatures that it can reliably kill. After that's removed, I don't think we have enough creatures to run Jitte. 
  Obviously Confidant can be run if you're not running Unmask, Pyrokinesis, Leyline, etc, but the inclusion of those cards must necessarily limit DC's usefulness. 
  Chains of Mephistopheles has not performed for me. It's a great effect (makes Brainstorm hilarious and terrible!), but it's just too slow for the current metagame. 
  Maindeck red blasts might be a good fit, or just more disruption (you have two more Duress/Thoughtseize slots that could be used). 
  Jagged Poppet isn't all that useful except in those builds that run a ton of pitch spells (he pitches to either and the pitching allows you to get hellbent quickly). I think his time has passed. 
  Therapies are great, but you need more creatures to run with them, preferably ones that can be returned. 
  I found Unearth to be useful in Magus builds.
  The deck definitely needs more removal. It also needs to deal with the broken speed of Flash, so Pithing Needle, Tormod's Crypt, and Leyline of the Void might be worth running. 
  If you're not running Leyline in the main (understandable if you're running Confidant), I'd suggest running maindeck Extirpates. 
  They're going to complement your discard suite nicely and are useful against every deck. 
  I prefer Cruel Edict to Diabolic Edict, since it cannot be Misdirected. 
  P-Imp should only be run in the Poppet / Gathan Raiders build since otherwise you don't need a sac outlet. 
  Blood Moon can be added to complement Magus, but that feels like a very all in move that would require more acceleration (more Moxen, perhaps ESGs).
  Viashino Heretic is very strong against Stax, as are Gorilla Shaman and Goblin Vandal. I think Shattering Spree, Rack and Ruin, and Viashino Heretic are the best for this deck, particularly when you consider that you have the Simian Spirit Guides to get you to 3 mana quickly.
  I'll look forward to continuing the conversation. 
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									 « Reply #191 on: March 31, 2008, 03:53:34 pm »  | 
								
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							You're welcome. Always happy to discuss my pet deck        I posted on the TMWA thread as well, in case we'd like to solicit more feedback by conducting this conversation in the public view. You isolated the Wasteland issues directly. The trouble with running a Blood Moon / Magus heavy deck is that those Wastelands (and fetches and any other non-basics) are often Mountains. That's not to say they're not useful when you get them early game, but you need to have consistency to get all that mana right away. We've tried Negator, but there are too many creatures in the format for him to be effective right now, and he's too slow a threat against the metagame. Play Chains and you'll see what I mean. We tried it many different builds. It's good. It's just not great. It too often means that you lock a game you'd already won or it's irrelevant because they've already won. They just conjure up bounce or something else to deal with it. If you can get it out Turn 1 consistently, then it would be good, but it's just not stellar. I feel like most of your threats and answers need to be the same cards, usually creatures that answer specific threats. For example, you run Magus because it kills mana bases, you run Confidant because it draws you cards, you run Mindcensor because it shuts down search, you don't run really efficient creatures or even attractive options like Taurean Mauler simply because they're "just" creatures, they have no alternate application. In a deck with ostensibly no draw engine, every card has to pull double duty. Discard plus Leyline and/or Extirpate are great against Flash and sometimes GAT, and Tyrant Oath. They're not so great against Ichorid or Goblins or Fish or a host of other smaller metagame decks that might matter there. Gorilla Shaman is a nice complement to Magus. My major issue with the R/B lists is that they rely too much on Magus resolving. There are too many games that we lose to our opponent simply having Mox Sapphire or Mox Jet or Mox Emerald, or Black Lotus, or top decking their one basic island (I hate it when that happens, right after a 1st turn Moon). I think you were on the right track with the Dark Confidant, lots of creatures, Magus build, rather than the Jagged Poppet build. The Ancient Tombs seem good if you're running main deck Chalice, but the Poppets are just out of place. Snuff out doesn't stop the Flash kill nor does it kill Tog. Combine the life loss from that and the Tombs and you're in for a world of hurt (for even more hurt - just add Dark Confidant). I think the deck needs to be svelte and sleek in today's metagame. - Dan Aight. All good points. So given all that we've discussed, where might you go with the deck? I'm considering keeping Chains but perhaps running 2 MD and 1 SB or something as I still think it really hoses decks like Tyrant Blue that try to prolong the game with infinite draw/counters.  Would you stick with RB or would you splash white for Mindcensor etc.? Can a RBw list still effectively run Moon effects? If I go back to the sleek efficient approach then I should still have a way to finish off my opponent right? Why can't Jitte fill that role? It also helps get around unanswerable bombs like Platz that could really ruin my day if I don't expect them from a given deck. Jitte seems like the best solution for a deck that doesn't want to run bomb critters but still wants to win the game on the back of 2/1's and 2/2's. Am I wrong about this? Are there threats I've overlooked? I think you've basically sold me on at least 2-3 MD Shaman and possibly 4 as it is really nice to be able to nuke Moxen AND play a later game Magus. I think he'll probably end up taking the slot that Lavamancer took. Lavamancer was originally in there to be a clock as well as removal btw, but you've convinced me that it's too slow as either really and that the x/2 creatures that must be killed in the format are limited right now.  Also, IF we splash for a third color (I still hate that idea with Magus in the mix) could green also work for a finisher like Tarmogoyf and other tech like Hidden Guerrillas or Rootmaze or something? Also, a rules question. When does Chains actually really disadvantage your opponent? Is it when they try to BS or Gush or Ancestral with 2 or less cards in hand? Only when you have multiple Chains? That would help me decide whether to keep them or not. If I feel I can cripple my opponent's hand by turn 2 with discard spells then wouldn't Chains be a sort of "HARD LOCK" after that point? I mean, I know it doesn't prevent topdecks, but it does seem to prevent any sort of engine from starting. The nice thing about playing against Oath is that IF they happen to topdeck the Oath they still need a turn (barring timewalk) in order to get things rolling. That could potentially be very helpful if you can find a way of dealing with it. Jitte can help with that by nuking your critters. Just thought I'd throw that in the mix for why Jitte could be used. Anyhoo, the second build is more explosive, but yes, it is fragile and needs the Magus to resolve too much for my liking.  I'd like to run another BR idea by you that is very different from a typical TMWA list. It is more of a sui-black deck, but it does utilize many of the same cards and you might be able to help as your expertise seems predominantly in these colors. Here's my crazy concoction. Be honest in your criticism: Land (16): 4 Bloodstained Mire 2 Polluted Delta 4 Swamp 2 Badlands 1 Underground Sea 1 Library Of Alexandria 1 Strip Mine 1 Wasteland Artifacts (4): 1 Black Lotus 1 Lotus Petal 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Ruby Creatures (8): 4 Dark Confidant 4 Nantuko Shade Instants (9): 4 Dark Ritual 3 Culling The Weak 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Ancestral Recall Sorceries (19): 4 Cabal Therapy 4 Thoughtseize 2 Grim Tutor 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Wheel Of Fortune 1 Yawgmoth’s Will 3 Empty The Warrens 2 Tendrils Of Agony 1 Time Walk Enchantments (1): 1 Necropotence Artifact—Equipment (3): 3 Skullclamp SB 4 Leyline Of The Void 2 Red Elemental Blast 3 Extirpate 2 Goblin Bombardment 1 Cruel Edict 3 Rack And Ruin  
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									 « Reply #192 on: March 31, 2008, 04:54:00 pm »  | 
								
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							You guys should test out Cranial Extraction - it's really the cheapest thing you can run that pro-actively stops topdecks (for extirpate they have to have had something in hand, and things like gravestorm only get 1-2 cards).  With Thoughtseize/Duress/Therapy it shouldn't be too hard to resolve one.  I know it costs 4, but it seems like once you have things under control (i.e., you've disrupted their early game), 4 mana shouldn't be too problematic. 
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									 « Reply #193 on: March 31, 2008, 04:59:32 pm »  | 
								
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							You guys should test out Cranial Extraction - it's really the cheapest thing you can run that pro-actively stops topdecks (for extirpate they have to have had something in hand, and things like gravestorm only get 1-2 cards).  With Thoughtseize/Duress/Therapy it shouldn't be too hard to resolve one.  I know it costs 4, but it seems like once you have things under control (i.e., you've disrupted their early game), 4 mana shouldn't be too problematic.
  I'm sorry, but Extirpate >>>>> Cranial Extraction. If you have 9-10 Discard spells then Extirpating a key card shouldn't be a problem.  Extraction: a) is 4 damage under confidant b) does not have split second c) is a sorcery. It simply doesn't fit the bill against the decks you need it to right now (Flash, Oath etc.) because it is too slow and can be countered. That's why almost no one plays it any more. Extirpate is just plain better.  
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									 « Reply #194 on: March 31, 2008, 05:02:41 pm »  | 
								
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							You guys should test out Cranial Extraction - it's really the cheapest thing you can run that pro-actively stops topdecks (for extirpate they have to have had something in hand, and things like gravestorm only get 1-2 cards).  With Thoughtseize/Duress/Therapy it shouldn't be too hard to resolve one.  I know it costs 4, but it seems like once you have things under control (i.e., you've disrupted their early game), 4 mana shouldn't be too problematic.
  If you run       for your deck, Hide/Seek will be a better option. . Cranial's ability is there only to prevent Flash/Oath from their winning condition and you can find they will always one step ahead since       >       or       
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									 « Reply #195 on: March 31, 2008, 05:46:08 pm »  | 
								
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							Here's my latest build for TMWA, please take a look    Lands (17) : 4 Bloodstained Mire 1 Polluted delta 4 Badlands 1 Scrubland 1 Plateau 5 Swamp Mana Artifacts (5) : 1 Mox Ruby 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Pearl 1 Lotus Petal 1 Black Lotus Artifacts (4) : 4 Aether's Vial Creatures (20) : 4 Magus of The Moon 4 Jagget Poppet 4 Simian Spirit Guide 4 Gathan Riders  1 Aven Mindcensor 1 Jotun Grunt 2 Maralen of The Mornsong Instant (10) : 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Demonic Consultation 1 Hide/Seek 1 Extirpate 1 Snuff Out 2 Slaughter Pact 3 Pyrokinesis Sorceries (4) : 4 Thoughtseize The idea is same with standard BR TMWA with Jagget Poppet build plus I add     inside in order to put Maralen + Mincensor control. . (stop gush, stop scroll, stop flash if it's not too late). . With Maralen, Vial is a must, sure we don't want our opponents take the advantage first. . And sure I don't add vial just for Maralen but we'll see how much effective its interaction with the others. . Jotunt Grunt is there to recycle spell that used and search it again with Maralen. . Very rough bulid?? Yes. . Not tested well?? Yes. . So I'm waiting for your criticism, be nice    
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									 « Reply #196 on: March 31, 2008, 07:31:26 pm »  | 
								
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							Dan, something I don't think I ever asked you before.  When testing for gen con with your BR list, did you ever test mindslicer in the raiders' slot?  I was thinking it would be a great way to get both players hellbent with the old poppet list, which works far better than other decks without a hand.
  Also just stating on my experience, the instant speed portion of diabolic edict often outweighs the misdirection proof wording on cruel/imperial edict, especially against shop decks' welders.
  :EDIT:On second thought, you did say that there needed to be a better clock than the raiders, so slicer doesn't really fit the bill I suppose.  Also, the red pitch burn spell (I won't even try to spell it) can still wreck current flash when aimed at the carrion feeder with the first hulk activation on the stack.  Unfortunately there is still no enchantment hate in red or black after 15 years, so oath is hard to go against. 
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									 « Reply #197 on: March 31, 2008, 10:16:12 pm »  | 
								
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							@Dan. 
  So what about my sui-Tendrils centered list? Thoughts? 
  OH, and here's my update to RB TMWA based on some of your advice, I think.
  BR ‘The Mountains Win Again’
  Land (18): 4 Bloodstained Mire 2 Polluted Delta 4 Badlands 6 Swamp 1 Mountain 1 Strip Mine
  Artifacts (6): 1 Black Lotus 1 Lotus Petal 1 Mox Ruby 1 Mox Jet 2 Umezawa’s Jitte
  Creatures (15): 3 Gorilla Shaman 4 Dark Confidant 4 Magus Of The Moon 4 Simian Spirit Guide
  Enchantments (3): 2 Chains Of Mephistopheles 1 Blood Moon
  Instants (7): 3 Red Elemental Blast 1 Vampiric Tutor 3 Extirpate
  Sorceries (11): 4 Cabal Therapy 3 Duress 3 Thoughtseize 1 Demonic Tutor
  SB 2 Rack And Ruin 2 Viashino Heretic 1 Blood Moon 1 Chains Of Mephistopheles 4 Leyline Of The Void 2 Goblin Bombardment 1 Umezawa’s Jitte 1 Pyroclasm 1 Red Elemental Blast
  
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									 « Reply #198 on: April 04, 2008, 06:55:05 am »  | 
								
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							Shadowmoor bring us some interesting creatures to be thought as possible army in TMWA style. . They are :
  Sygg, River Cutthroat      {ub}{ub} Legendary Creature - Merfolk Rogue   Rare At end of turn, if an opponent has lost 3 or more life this turn, you may draw a card. (Damage causes loss of life.) Illus. Jeremy Enecio   #176/301   1/3
  Blue-Black Hybrid so I assume TMWA only use her black side. . She has no big impact for the metagame but with the right build (maybe with burn) we can use her as advantage. .
 
  Fulminator Mage     1{br}{br} Creature - Elemental Shaman   Rare Sacrifice Fulminator Mage: Destroy target nonbasic land. "Unsafe Terrain Ahead - Turn Back" -Sign near the former location of Pyrtagh Cairn Illus. R.K. Post   #188/301   2/2
  What a nice black-red hybrid. .wasteland with legs to attack and block and possibility to re-use by creature revival spells. .
  Vexing Shusher     {rg}{rg} Creature - Goblin Shaman   Rare Vexing Shusher can't be countered by spells or abilities. {rg}: Target spell can't be countered by spells or abilities.       2/2
  Powerful, just awesome, walking Pyroblast I'd say. . 
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							TopSecret
							
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									 « Reply #199 on: April 04, 2008, 04:21:10 pm »  | 
								
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							For the BR builds of TMWA, has anyone tested multiple Mindtwists? I am wondering if it would be worth it. Maindeck Simians and moxen make me think that it could be good as a raw power "oops" kind of card. Perhaps it would be worth playing if a build was made with full power and Simians?
  The new Sygg looks potentially good, but the main problem I see is that Sygg doesn't become operational early... Unless you're playing some ridiculously crazy suicide black deck. It sounds interesting as an extra Confidant effect. I will have to test it. 
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							Ball and Chain 
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							Troy_Costisick
							
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									 « Reply #200 on: April 04, 2008, 08:23:02 pm »  | 
								
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							Heya,
  Mind Twists are easily misdrected or countered outright.  I don't feel they accomplish enough to warrant play.  Right now is not the best time for TMWA in my oppinion.  Oath and Lark Flash are two of our most difficult matchups and make up a huge amount of the current meta.  
  Green can strengthen our Oath matchup by providing Naturalize and Deglamer.  White also has several anti-enchantment options.  I'm not sure Greater Gargadon + something like Genju of the Spire is the bester answer.  Against Flash, black can give us Duress, Thoughtseize, and Exterpate.  Artifacts can offer Tormod's Crypt, Pithing Needle, and Damping Matrix.  None of them are great answers.  As rkmancer says, Shadowmoor holds several cards that may provide us with answers.  Maybe once those cards get added to the mix, we can better evaluate our chances.
  Peace,
  -Troy 
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							Myriad Games
							
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									 « Reply #201 on: April 08, 2008, 01:05:26 pm »  | 
								
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							Wow, lots of feedback. Thanks to everyone for contributing to the discussion! While a combo B/R build could work, I feel like if you're going to play combo now, you might as well play Flash. I do not think that a three-color build can be consistent enough with the inclusion of Magus. Aether Vial may help, but focusing on two colors would be best for Magus builds. Shadowmoor certainly does offer some tasty choices. I especially like the idea of Vexing Shusher. Sygg would be best in a burn B/R build. Fulminator Mage could be used with lots of LD (Wasteland, Strip Mine, Sinkhole) and possibly Unearths to reuse the Mage.  Mind Twists might fit into the all-in style deck like Sui-Black with Rituals. You would definitely need backup to help avoid Misdirection, but Duress, Thoughtseize, et al. should be able to take care of that. It seems that Mindcensor would be the best great in this metagame since Flash has reminded players that there's lots of library searching in Vintage. Certainly green could be used effectively. Take a gander at  Kyle Guillemette's deck, which is sort of Mountain-esque. There's no denying the awesome power of Tarmogoyf, and Gaddock Teeg's not too shabby either.  
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									 « Reply #202 on: April 11, 2008, 07:34:29 pm »  | 
								
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							This card made my eyes brighter : =================================================================================== Runed Halo*         Enchantment   Rare As Runed Halo comes into play, name a card. You have protection from the named card. (You can't be targeted by it, and all damage that would be dealt to you by it is prevented) =================================================================================== Fit for this day meta? Yes, it's an anti for Goyf, Dryad, Dreadnought, even Darksteel Colossus won't crash it. . As additional function this card also prevent you to lose from any tendril and brain freeze storm combo. . (for Empty the Warren, I don't know if goblin token can be considered as a card??) Cost for double white sure make it less playable, so. .??  
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									 « Reply #203 on: April 11, 2008, 07:55:56 pm »  | 
								
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							Heya,
  It's an okay card for the meta, but there's a couple drawbacks.
  1.  Like any permanent you put out there, a bounce spell is one Merchant Scroll away. 2.  It costs double white, which is a real problem for this deck
  It will get used in some deck though.  I promise.
  Peace,
  -Troy 
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									 « Reply #204 on: April 17, 2008, 04:48:40 am »  | 
								
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							Heya, Since white and gree can be friendly partners for red in TMWA, here's a new card that's been spoiled that I think might be helpful: Sun-and-moon wheel (g/w) (g/w)
  Enchantment - Aura Enchant Player (R) Whenever a card would be put into the graveyard of enchanted player from anywhere the card is revealed and put onto the bottom of that players library. Every life finally ends, just life itself never does. Illus. Boros & Szikszai 243/301 I know it stops Ichorid right in its tracks, but here's my question.  Is this a replacement effect for something going to the graveyard?  It looks as if it is, and if it is, does that make this a new Flash-stopper? Peace, -Troy  
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							wiley
							
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									 « Reply #205 on: April 17, 2008, 07:06:34 am »  | 
								
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							If that is the correct wording then yes it is a replacement effect since it uses the words "would be".  So the hulk would never hit the yard.  It serves the same purpose as leyline except it comes down much slower than even planar void.  I'm definitely not sold on it, but it might have a spot in a TMWA build that doesn't run black. 
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							Team Arsenal 
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									 « Reply #206 on: April 21, 2008, 07:54:25 am »  | 
								
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							Heya, Here's the list of Shadowmoor Cards I think could possible, potentially be used in TMWA: Tattermunge Maniac Fulminator Mage Vexing Shusher Guttural Response Wheel of Sun and Moon Runed Halo Ashenmoor Gouger Farie Macabre Firespout Smash to Smithereens Manamorphose Fossil Find Heap Doll
  The thing is, they're all very useful cards, but I'm just not sure any of them have enough power or synergy with what we already have to make the cut.  It's a shame that so many cards are costed pretty close to Vintage's high standard and have effects that are fairly near what the meta requires, but just barely miss the mark.  I don't know what to think about them yet.  What do you guys think? Peace, -Troy  
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									 « Reply #207 on: April 22, 2008, 09:41:13 am »  | 
								
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							Tattermunge Maniac : say no, for RG beatz maybe Fulminator Mage : owh yeah, the best card for TMWA in this expansion Vexing Shusher : hmm, good but not that great, SB. . Guttural Response : for TMWA which always contain    , REB and Pyroblast are simply better Wheel of Sun and Moon : just interesting, useful? I don't think so. . Runed Halo : for this time meta, yes. . Ashenmoor Gouger : nope, vanilla. . Farie Macabre : another grave-hate best tool, no color required, free, instant speed, owh thanks GOD!! Firespout : no no no, TMWA is a creatures based deck. . Smash to Smithereens : damage, not really necessary Manamorphose : not for TMWA Fossil Find : no comment. . Heap Doll : with Extirpate, TOrmod's Crypt, Leyline of The Void, and brand new Farie Macabre, this one has no chance to glow  
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							credmond
							
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									 « Reply #208 on: April 22, 2008, 12:35:44 pm »  | 
								
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							Painter's servant looks like it has serious potential for this archetype.
  Artifact Creature - Scarecrow P/T:    1/3 Rules Text (Oracle):    As Painter's Servant comes into play, choose a color. All cards that aren't in play, spells, and permanents are the chosen color in addition to their other colors.
  Basically you name blue and then the 8 blasts you play can go crazy with any spell cast or any permanent that enters play thereafter. Guttural response then becomes possibly playable as blasts 9-12 (but thats probably too much). The deck can take the mana denial route, blasting new lands or moxen that enter play, or the control route and blasting any spells that hold up your beat down or threaten your dominant game state. Before painter comes down the blasts should totally keep any blue based player in check. Moxes, ancient tomb, crystal vein, mana crypt, city of traitors help power him out first turn. Magus of the moon is a good pairing with this guy and help fix the mana base after you no longer need acceleration. 
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							nineisnoone
							
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									 « Reply #209 on: April 22, 2008, 02:43:51 pm »  | 
								
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							Painter's servant looks like it has serious potential for this archetype.
  Artifact Creature - Scarecrow P/T:    1/3 Rules Text (Oracle):    As Painter's Servant comes into play, choose a color. All cards that aren't in play, spells, and permanents are the chosen color in addition to their other colors.
  Basically you name blue and then the 8 blasts you play can go crazy with any spell cast or any permanent that enters play thereafter. Guttural response then becomes possibly playable as blasts 9-12 (but thats probably too much). The deck can take the mana denial route, blasting new lands or moxen that enter play, or the control route and blasting any spells that hold up your beat down or threaten your dominant game state. Before painter comes down the blasts should totally keep any blue based player in check. Moxes, ancient tomb, crystal vein, mana crypt, city of traitors help power him out first turn. Magus of the moon is a good pairing with this guy and help fix the mana base after you no longer need acceleration.
  I was thinking the same thing. Alternatively, you can call non-blue and to deny them the ability to FOW and MisD. So it's not necessarily dead if you don't hit  one of your Blasts.  
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							I laugh a great deal because I like to laugh, but everything I say is deadly serious. 
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