Suicide Black Control

[plasma]

I haven't got to play in a Vintage Tournment in a while so I figure I throw my deck to the wolves for some improvement.

Deck List:

[4] Duress
[4] Thoughtseize
[4] Hymn to Tourach
[4] Sinkhole
[4] Extirpate
[4] Hypnotic Specter
[4] The Rack
[4] Night's Whisper
[4] Dark Ritual
[1] Demonic Tutor
[1] Yawgmoth's Will
[1] Vampiric Tutor
[1] Null Rod
[4] Maze of Ith
[1] Strip Mine
[4] Wasteland
[4] Bloodstained Mire
[7] Swamp

SB:

[1] Tormod's Crypt
[4] Mishra's Factory
[4] Phyrexian Negator
[2] Chalice of the Void
[4] Diabolic Edict


So the deck strategy is early game distruption with Duress and Thoughtseize along with Land Destruction and Hymn to Tourach to keep in under control.  I usually target engine pieces or combo pieces with Extripate.  The Maze of Ith's was a late addition to handle the random creature deck I come across, I moved the Mishra's Factory to the SB.

The one change I am still not sure about is I took out 4 Mind Twist for Thoughtseize.  I figure the first turn distruption was better then late game "discard your entire hand" effects.

Anyway fire away.

[Nydaeli]

If you're going to run Maze of Ith, you should run Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to make it dead less often.
Dark Confidant is really good.  No surprises there.
4 Leylines are pretty much mandatory, probably in the board, but with all your discard and Rituals they could be nice in the main too.

[plasma]

If you're going to run Maze of Ith, you should run Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to make it dead less often.

Good point. Might be worth throwing one in instead of a Swamp.  I assume Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth will add the Swamp Type to itself as well so I can tap it for black mana?

Dark Confidant is really good.  No surprises there.

Yeah I been debating between 4 Dark Confidant or 4 Night's Whisper.  I guess I was afaird the Dark Confidant would be too much suicide.  However, thinking about it it would be a more consistant card advantage.

4 Leylines are pretty much mandatory, probably in the board, but with all your discard and Rituals they could be nice in the main too.

Don't know too much about this card, can you go into greater detail here.

[Sarah Angel]

I think Sinkhole is pretty worthless in today's meta and should come out of your deck completely.

You already have 5 strip effects and Sinkhole is just overkill, not to mention competes HEAVILY with your 2-drop spot.  I can't imagine there are many times where I'd want Sinkhole over Hymn to tourach, not to mention how awful Sinkhole can be vs. GAT.

You're pretty much dead in the water against resolved threats, game 1.  I'd add in something like Powder Keg, or even Maindeck your Negators.

[Guli]

I think Sinkhole is pretty worthless in today's meta and should come out of your deck completely.

You already have 5 strip effects and Sinkhole is just overkill, not to mention competes HEAVILY with your 2-drop spot.  I can't imagine there are many times where I'd want Sinkhole over Hymn to tourach, not to mention how awful Sinkhole can be vs. GAT.

Not saying sink should stay or leave. I want to say something else.

Sinkhole combined with 3-4 duress/ 3-4 Thoughtseize / 3-4 Tourach is still good even against gush. It would be stupid to play sinkhole when an obvious gush is sitting in their hand.

[Sarah Angel]

No doubt a turn 1 Swamp>Ritual>Thoughtseize>Hymn followed by a Turn 2 Swamp>Sinkhole is a pretty deadly play against most any deck, but I just think with 4 wastelands and 1 strip mine, youre sinkholes would be better suited as something else.

IMO, sinkhole is too much of a gamble.  It's GREAT IF you win the die roll AND have a dark ritual.  Then on turn 2 you can sinkhole and still have enough mana for a turn 2 tourach or duress/thoughtseize/extirpate.

But that's already a lot of contingency.  I just played a deck with a similar effect (4x Stifle).  In theory, it should work the same way as sinkhole, effectively killing one of their lands if I win the die roll and play it in response to a fetch.  But it's only 4 cards in your deck and the mana cost is pretty prohibitive to doing other early plays, especially since you're not running Mox Jet and Black Lotus (why arent you running both of these?).

So aside from this play:  Win die roll>Draw sinkhole and dark ritual, the card is pretty worthless.  It's just dead and awful late in the game too.  Not to mention, it makes you choose between it or an early Ritual>Specter (unless you play first, draw 2 lands, specter, sinkhole, ritual).  In that case, again, I'd still rather use Tourach effect in place of sinkhole and be able to extirpate right away.

AND to drone on longer...I'm not even mentioning the high probability that on turn 2, while sitting on your sinkhole, you are looking at a fetch land, which you obviously cant sinkhole.  So then, the card is dead even more times then mentioned above due to fetchlands.  By that time, they can fetch for a land, draw another card and Brainstorm/Ponder in to more land/mana sources.

[TrueOgre]

hmmm

- 4 night's whispers
- 1 swamp/wasteland
- 1 extirpate
- 1 hymn to tourach
- 1 Thoughtseize
- 1 the rack

+ 4 dark confidant
+ 4 negator
+ 1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth


Abracos

[Sarah Angel]

Confidant is a tough call here.  At first it seems to make much more sense, since your lack of creature threats helps aggro opponents.  Plus the Confidant can chump block and deal 2 damage in a pinch.

But for that same reason, the card drawing is going to be much less consistent, as you might find you need him as a chump blocker quite often, and thus you don't get his card drawing ability.

He's also MUCH slower than Night's Whisper, and for that reason, I would choose not to run him.  But it's one of those choices that just comes down to testing it out.

[plasma]

Well here what I did; still need to play test this more, however, I used a good amount of input.


-4 Night's Whisper in favor of +4 Dark Confident.  Though a bit slower, it keeps a better card adventage.  The Maze of Ith's and SBing the Diablic Edicts in for Creature Heavy decks seems to prevent me having to use Dark Confident as chump blockers. 

-1 Swamp +1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth.  Self explantory. 

So here is the idea been play testing -4 Extirpate +4 Mind Twist.  Too much discard?  Need more play testing.  Either way, the 4 Extirpate or Mind Twist will be on the SB

As for Sinkhole.  Its been working for me.  Might not be the best against GAT, it pretty controls anything else.  And even ok against GAT when played at the right moment.  With 8 Duress-like effects  I pretty much know what is in their hand the entire game.

[Ben Kossman]

You don'y really have to choose between whisper and Confidant. You should run both w/Negator...

[zeus-online]

The rack is an awful card, why are you running it?

Demonic consultation is an obvious card to play, it's SO good! It's like a 1 mana instant demonic tutor, especially in a deck like this. It's also odd for me to see that necropotence is missing, why is this? It's such a bomb.
I'd probably also add the moxen and lotus...with 4 confidants, 4 night's whispers and negators you could really use the boost.
Unmask could be usefull, has this been tested?

Another thing: Why no splashes? White gives you jotün grunt and plow, while green would give you tarmogoyf.

/Zeus

[Talad]

hmmm

- 4 night's whispers
- 1 swamp/wasteland
- 1 extirpate
- 1 hymn to tourach
- 1 Thoughtseize
- 1 the rack

+ 4 dark confidant
+ 4 negator
+ 1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth


Abracos

I don't see that negator should be such an obvious choice because of all fanatic running loose these days, there is also seal of fires and other cards that you don't want thrown at your negator.

@the deck
Though I don't have that musch experience with monoB decks I thing that some changes to do could look like this:

- 4 Sinkhole
- 2 Extirpate
- 2 Night's Whisper
- 1 The Rack - The rack isn't that bad considering all the discard this deck is playing, it's also a win condition.
- 1 Hyppnotic Specter

+ 4 Leyline of the void - Although I don't really know what meta you are playing in but the black leyline is very good against most of the tier 1 decks e.g. flash, ichorid, CS, in some occasions stax and it's also good against GaT.
+ 2 Mind Twist - I think that a combination of extirpate and Mind twist could be great against most of the decks out there.
+ 4 Dark Confidant.

This is just some thoughts from me. 

[Valrauka]

I have been playing a deck similar to this in my metagame (mostly control and combo and littered with bad random aggro decks) and i have been having good results with it. This is the list i have been running



 Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
2 Hypnotic Specter
4 Nantuko Shade
3 Oona's Prowler
1 Phyrexian Negator
2 Withered Wretch


Spells
4 Dark Ritual 
3 Diabolic Edict
4 Duress
3 Thoughtseize
2 Cabal Therapy
3 Extirpate
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor

Artifacts
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1  Umezawa's Jitte    


Lands
4 Bloodstained Mire    
3 Mishra's Factory    
1 Strip Mine
8 Swamp    
3 Wasteland

 Sideboard
2 Mesmeric Fiend
1 Phyrexian Negator
2 Infest
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Pithing Needle
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Umezawa's Jitte

[Bill Copes]

Did anyone consider running SmallPox?  It's a sinkhole, a "duress" and an Edict all in one card.  If you change your creature base to something like mishra's factories and phyrexian totems, this could work pretty well.

[plasma]

The rack is an awful card, why are you running it?

Disagree.  It absoluately crushes in this deck.

Demonic consultation is an obvious card to play, it's SO good! It's like a 1 mana instant demonic tutor, especially in a deck like this. It's also odd for me to see that necropotence is missing, why is this? It's such a bomb.

Card burned me too many time.

I'd probably also add the moxen and lotus...with 4 confidants, 4 night's whispers and negators you could really use the boost.
Unmask could be usefull, has this been tested?

Duress, thoughtseize, mind twist and Hymn to Tourach all worked better.

[plasma]

Played tested in against a  Aggro this past weekend.  Won 14 of 15 so I am pretty happy.

[plasma]

Latest Incaration:

[4] Duress
[4] Thoughtseize
[4] Hymn to Tourach
[4] Sinkhole
[4] Diabolic Edict
[4] Hypnotic Specter
[4] The Rack
[4] Dark Confidant
[4] Dark Ritual
[1] Demonic Tutor
[1] Yawgmoth's Will
[1] Vampiric Tutor
[1] Null Rod
[4] Maze of Ith
[1] Strip Mine
[4] Wasteland
[4] Bloodstained Mire
[6] Swamp
[1] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

SB:

[1] Tormod's Crypt
[4] Mind Twist
[4] Phyrexian Negator
[2] Chalice of the Void
[4] Extirpate