MAD MUD

[madmanmike25]

Here is a list that I wasn’t going to reveal until a later date.  This deck is designed to play VERY aggressively as you can probably infer from the list.  You have seen plenty of MUD decks I’m sure.  This is my version and dare I say I feel it is a solid choice for today’s meta.  This is a combo deck that has the option to go aggro.  Let’s get to it, shall we?

MAD MUD
Creatures: 18
4 Metalworkers
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Myr Retriever
3 Junk Diver
3 Triskelion

Metal: 17
4 Skullclamp
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Staff of Domination
1 Trinisphere
1 Memory Jar

Lands/Acceleration: 25
4 Mishras Workshop
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
2 City of Traitors
1 Stripmine
1 Tolarian Academy

5 Moxen
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault

Run-of-the-mill SB:  Alter to suit your meta
3 Razormane Masticore
3 Pithing Needle(my new favorite SB card)
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Sphere of Resistance
3 Tormod’s Crypt/Eon Hub

This deck had multiple avenues to victory and so many synergies.  Here they are in order of effectiveness:

A.)  Metalworker+Staff of Domination (with 3 artifacts in hand.)  This is the best way to win.  It isn’t so much “Oops, I win!”  but rather more of “Oops, I Dominated all over your face with my Staff!”.  Staff allows you to gain 1-99,999 life, draw and play your library and win via Ravager+Trike by sacrificing your board.  Facilitated by clamping the 1/1’s.
B.)  A 1/1 creature equipped with Sword beatdown.  This has potential to do 5 dmg to the opponent and net you a card.  It can even lead into Plan A.
C.)  Grow-A-Ravager(tm). This is pretty fun.  This is achieved by using Ravager and 2 Myr Retrievers and/or Junk Diver.  You just keep casting them and sacrificing them.  It isn’t optimal, but it sure as hell isn’t shabby either considering the amount of mana you can produce.
D.)  Triskelion beats.  Lame.  Six mana for a 4/4 is a bad way to win.....but it can still happen.  The keyword here is “win”.  I hope Plan D is not your preferred path to victory.

I tested 2 Lightning Greaves in place of the 3 Junk Diver and 4 Sword.  Sometimes they were win more, sometimes they were win now....and sometimes they were never cast and I still won games.  After some tedious testing, I found out that I prefer the 3rd Diver and 4 th Sword.

Mini Primer(skip this if you are already familiar with this type of deck)
**If you have never played a deck like this before, Goldfish it and see what it can do before you waste another player’s time by making mistakes and/or keeping bad hands.  The deck is not really all that complex, but there are ways to optimize your chances of winning and you must learn them before you can play the deck to its fullest potential.  Isn’t that true of any deck?

Your draw engine is comprised of Skullclamp and Sword.  Clamp is the preferred draw engine, but work with what you’ve got.  Go for Plan A as fast as you can, but utilize whatever means it takes to win.
*Tip: You don’t always want to put Ravagers +1/+1 counter on a creature, unless that creature is Trike.

Even hands with no draw(Clamp or Sword) can be kept if you can cast a Metalworker.  This usually means Plan C and hopefully you have a Thorn to buy you some time.

Memory Jar is disgustingly good with an active Metalworker.  It‘s funny as hell when recurring this card can defeat an Ichorid deck!

Metalworker is the MVP of this deck.  Yes, even without Staff.  Ravager gets honorable mention since he facilitates so many cards.  He also makes all your creatures STP proof unless they have a Rod in play.

Playing with 7 Myr Retrievers is pretty badass.  This helps so much against common cards like Force of Will and Duress/Thoughtsieze.  I feel like I should list all the possible ways Retrievers/Divers can get back an artifact from your GY:
Ravager
Skullclamp
Sword of Fire and Ice
Triskelion
Chump block
*Tip:  You can use Sword to inflict dmg to an equipped Retreiver/Diver then move the Sword to another creature and the previously equipped creature will die.


A preemptive Q and A with madmanmike25

Q:  Why should I play this deck? 
A:  Because I say so and not to mention the fact that this deck is potent and fun.  Staff of Domination is awesome in this deck.  Some would argue that it is awesome in ANY deck that runs 4 Metalworkers.  I would point out the fact that it is BEST in a deck that runs Skullclamp and 1/1’s; namely Ravager, Myr Retriever and Junk Diver.  This deck is also not 100% GY reliant.  I find that to be a huge plus since many decks merely bring in artifact hate and you already have answers for that maindeck (not so for bounce/flux).

Q:  If Staff is so great, why not play with four copies?
A:  I have determined that 3 is the correct number for this deck.  The reason being is that approximately 90% of the time Staff only serves as equipment for Metalworker.  You can only run 4 Workers.  While Staff is never useless with this land configuration(courtesy of J.Rivers), you don’t really need to see it unless you have Mr. Metal out.  The 4 to 3 Worker/Staff configuration has been working just fine.

Q:  Who the hell is Junk Diver? 
A:  No, he’s not the opposite of a Muffdiver.  He is simply a flying Myr retriever.  Sometimes flying comes in handy.

Q:  Why use Thorn instead of Sphere or Chalice?
A:  The way I have described this choice to others is like this; When about to confront a bunch of unknown monsters(decks), which would you rather take into combat-a revolver with silver bullets(Chalice) or a shotgun?  In this case I chose the shotgun.  Thorn affects EVERY non-creatures spell.  It really is that simple.  Game 1 an improperly set Chalice can bite you in the ass.  I prefer Thorn over Sphere because this deck runs 18 creatures and I am not afraid of the aggro matchup(where Thorn is suboptimal).  I will be glad to elaborate my position more thoroughly if you so desire.

Q:  When should I not play this deck?
A:  When you play against a ton of Null Rod Fish with Kataki.  That’s painful game 1, but certainly not unwinnable.  Also a ton of Combo decks mean bad game 1’s, but that’s why we have SB’s right?

Matchup Analyses:
(to keep it simple, Favorable means >50%, Unfavorable means <50%, and Neutral means right around 50%, all in relation to MUD naturally)

Vs. Ichorid- Favorable
Meadbert found this to be in favor of Ichorid, however I found the opposite to be true.  The card that was best against me was Leyline.  That card alone stops a lot of shenanigans.  The beautiful thing is that Ichorid wouldn’t mull into LL game 1, but into Bazaar.  Basically I saw LL less than half the games.  It is important to note that LL does nothing to stop Metalworker nor Sword.  You can even still ‘combo’ by gaining a ton of life from the Staff then attack with your Divers+Swords.  Another reason I felt I had an advantage is that the deck runs 18 creatures, and can RFG Bridges pretty easily (not, if they have LL).  Don’t forget that 3 of those creatures are Trikes which are superb against Ichy.  Five ‘Stripmines’ help you keep Bazaar off the table for a bit.  Surprisingly enough Thorns in the main are good vs. Ichy(Dread Return), and they get better SB since they will be SB’ing hate.  Needles and Crypt help games 2-3.  I am also considering Powder Keg as a SB option.  Heh, maybe the mix-up is because I never tested against Bert playing Ichorid and he never tested against me playing MUD.

Vs. Mono Red Stax(with and without Uba)-Favorable
It should be no surprise that Aggro can have a field day against Stax.  Essentially a resolved Metalworker > a Stax deck.  Uba is indeed a pest, however Ravager, Trike and 1/1’s equipped with a Sword go the distance.  SB’ing Needles are great here:  Welder, Wasteland, and Bazaar are the Axis of Evil so name accordingly.  And yes, it is ok to have your own Wastes only provide mana.

Vs. Storm.dec- Unfavorable
This is due in part to only 5 maindeck disruption cards.  The fact that this deck has the potential to win on turn 2 is what helps mitigate a bad game 1.  You will be bringing in 6 more ‘combo-hate’ cards post SB giving you a grand total of 11.  I advise you to increase certain SB cards to suit your meta.(read: 1 more Chalice and 1 more Thorn)
*I’m quite certain that this matchup will cause the biggest concern.  However since we live in the age where many decks are packing 9 Spheres, I hope to capitalize on this meta while I can.

Vs. Flash- Neutral
‘Testing’ vs. Flash is just dumb.  They either win turn 1-2 or they don’t...and you pretty much win.  SB cards like Chalice and Sphere make games 2-3 more like...actual games.

Vs. Null Rod Fish with Kataki- Unfavorable
It’s a sad, sad day when Fish has bigger creatures than a Shop deck.  Game 1 depends on how soon they cast Rod and whether or not you see a Trike.  If you have a Sword equipped or a pumped Ravager you have a shot.  Trikes can still be recurred with Retriever and Diver after you chump block.  Razormane is good games 2-3.

Vs. GAT- Favorable
Duress and FoW...meet Myr Retriever and Junk Diver.  Dryad...meet more chump blockers than you can handle.  Oh, and did I mention that this MUD deck has the potential to combo out too?  Don’t assume it is a cakewalk though.

Vs. TurboGush- Unfavorable
This was tested by Meadbert and makes sense.  Drains are a pain in the main.  He said SB didn’t improve any.

Vs. Shop Aggro- Favorable
Trikes are great here.  Having plenty of chumps is nice too.  It shouldn’t be shocking that Metalworker is great vs Thorns and Spheres.  Since I have a combo, I have the faster clock.

Vs. Tyrant Oath- Unfavorable
That is my assumption at any rate but it is most likely correct.  I have yet to test vs. Tyrant Oath for various reasons(feel free to ask).

(more matchups to be added as soon as I get more free time.  I blame my band and my search for employment)

**Before anyone gets ants in their pants about anything, allow me to explain a thing or two.  ‘Favorable’ simply means above 50%....and that *could* mean even only 51%.  But thems the breaks and odds are still odds.  To illustrate, when I tested vs. GAT it does not mean that I blew GAT out of the water and the matchup is 999.99% in MUD’s favor.  Not by any means whatsoever.  Hell, you might be so unlucky in testing and have unfavorable matchups all the way around.

A special thanks to Meadbert for taking the time to test my list and offering his input.  It is always appreciated.  I completely forgot about Needle for my SB.  Also, a shout-out goes to Whitewolf for previous MUD discussions hopefully when he gets the time he can comment on the deck.


And thanks to you for reading,
Mike

P.S.  Feel free to call the deck MUD Staff, despite the bad imagery.

[Smmenen]

Hilarious and well written!

I love the idea of a "preemptive" Q&A.  LOL!

[WhiteWolf]

I already liked the deck a lot when you showed it to me a few weeks ago. In my eyes it's a very original and clever version of MUD (like the Null MUD we toyed around with earlier ). Some random opinions:

* Like you said already your combo matchup is not so good as the 9-sphere versions. However don't underestimate your own combo; in goldfishing the Jerking Staff combo came up with good consistency on turn 2 or 3. Besides that, combo has to win very quickly because this deck gets out of hand very very quickly. However, game 1 isn't in your favor. After sideboarding however ...

* You forgot to mention a fifth avenue to victory: the ravager-trisk machine-gun! With Retrievers, Divers and Clamps this deck pumps out a lot of artifacts. Sac them all to Ravager, dump all counters on Trisk and "say hello to my little friend!"

* The fact that Diver has flying isn't to be underestimated. The last months, with all the aggro and aggro-control running around, a lot of my games halted in a (temporary) critter stand-off. Hence why Moat is very good right now (see kobefan's wonderful BW control deck). In such cases, a flyer, especially one with a Sword, can be decisive.

* One card I could see in the sideboard is Crucible. I haven't tested against Stax but in the past it was a hard match-up for a MUD deck. Of course this version is very aggressive wich can negate the slow pressure of smokestack and CoW/Waste.

* Having a lot of mana (no problem), a Clamp and two Retriever/Divers going on is pretty good for drawing.

* Again, I think this version is very good for this metagame. If Null Rod makes a comeback however ...

I'll make sure to test this deck some more this weekend and I hope this nice developed deck and well-written description get the attention they deserve.

[islanderboi10]

What would a possible sideboard look like for a deck like this?

[Godfish]

Run-of-the-mill SB:  Alter to suit your meta
3 Razormane Masticore
3 Pithing Needle(my new favorite SB card)
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Sphere of Resistance
3 Tormod’s Crypt/Eon Hub

[Tareth]

What are your feelings on Tangle Wire? It slows down a lot of decks and after all, a tapped equipment is still a very usable equipment.

[meadbert]

As Madman Mike mentioned I actually did a lot of testing with this deck.

Back when I was testing Pithing Needle had not been added to the board yet.  This has some important implications.  First it really helps the Ichorid matchup.  Pithing Needle may explain why I found Ichorid to be unfavorable but Madman Mike found it to be favorable.  Also, Pithing Needle is decent at stopping TurboGush's combo.

Still, I found that combo/control Mana Drain Decks were bad in general.  Empty Gush, TurboGush and Drain Tendrils were all somewhat problematic matchups.  GAT was better because chump blockers were useful. 

Long is bad in game 1, but having 7 Resistor Thorn and 3 Chalice post board is really nice.

I found Flash to be pretty terrible.

Null Rod is a huge problem but that problem.  What is interesting is that those decks most likely to play Rod (Stax, Fish) are also your best matchups to begin with.
I see vulnerability to Rod as a huge weakness though and wonder what can be done to fix that problem.  There are several approaches that can be taken.
1)  Run Null Rod removal.  In a Mud deck this is tough.
2)  Run filter.  Putting Bazaars in the board simply so you can replaces dead cards with new cards might not be terrible.
3)  Run a Null Rod proof sideboard so you can simply transform into a less Null Rod dependant deck post board.  This might make the most sense since this deck has a naturally strong matchup against Stax and Fish to begin with.  The board listed above is already close to this.  The only Roded card in the board is Tormod's Crypt.  Duplicant might be nice to add.  It is unaffected by Rod and is really good against VIashino Heretic.

In many ways this deck actually plays out similarly to Turboland.  It is just about impossible to control.  Any deck whose strategy is to play control will lose.  Stax and all variants of Fish really have a problem because at some point MAD MUD gets critical mass and just buries you in card advantage or has the bigger guys.  Shop Aggro is also a strong matchup.  Thorns and Resistors are not too problematic and you can always combo out on them while they try to beat down.

Problematic decks are either combo decks or combo/control decks that use one counterspell to delay you just enough to combo out first.  It happens all the time that I play Drain Tendrils and they let Metalworker Resolve.  Then Skullclamp and Myr Retriever and Trike resolve.  Maybe throw in a Raveger.  I am beating down and feeling good.  Then turn 3 I go to play Staff for the win and it is Drained.  I swing for a ton dropping DT to under 10 life, but DT untaps and wins.  That sort of annoying behavior happens a lot with Drain based Combo/Control decks.  Tanglewire could be an interesting answer since as mentioned by other above it is also good against Null Rod.

This deck is the real McCoy.  It may not be amazing but it is good.

Also, this deck is just a ton of fun in multiplayer games as long as folks are not running Null Rod!

[islanderboi10]

I really like this deck.
Some questions though, How is the Aggro Shop match up? I havent been able to test the deck much. But, I have a tournament coming up soon, and I'm thinking of playing this deck.

My meta is full of shops, Gat, and some combo. 

I usually play stax, but I really like this deck.
Thanks!

[Tareth]

What are your sideboard strategies against combo, aggro, and control?

[madmanmike25]

What are your feelings on Tangle Wire? It slows down a lot of decks and after all, a tapped equipment is still a very usable equipment.

Tanglewire is a great card, and with this deck it is easy to recur.  I considered it for maindeck inclusion but opted for a more aggressive approach.  But what does Tanglewire really do?  It slows them down and slows you down at the same time.  You can keep certain hands containing SoFi, Clamp, Staff, and Metalworker....but you can't really keep a hand based on Tanglewire.  If decks were 64 cards I would most likely add in Tanglewires, that or Spheres.  The point is, I can't think of 2 cards I would want to take out for Tanglewire....and there would be little point in running only 2 Tanglewires.  Cutting back on critters is risky with the amount of equipment in the deck.

Some questions though, How is the Aggro Shop match up?

To be honest, I'd say it's pretty damn good.  Your creatures keep coming back, and YOU have a combo(read: faster clock).  Welders typically don't last too long and you have Needle SB.  Magus doesn't matter when you have a Metalworker and he can actually stop the life loss from Tomb.

Still, I found that combo/control Mana Drain Decks were bad in general. 

I found that out the day I started playing with Mishra's Workshop.  It's just a fact of life.  Some decks only pack 2 Mana Drains these days, though.

**Important reminder to everyone:  Tanglewires can also be Drained.  They are not fool-proof vs. Drain decks.

I see vulnerability to Rod as a huge weakness though and wonder what can be done to fix that problem.  There are several approaches that can be taken.
1)  Run Null Rod removal.  In a Mud deck this is tough.

Very tough.  The only card that has *potential* to remove Rod is Smokestack.  I once entertained the idea of a transformational MUD Stax SB.  That just seemed like an awful lot of changes for one card that you might not even see.  I just figured it wouldn't be worth it to have bad SB games against the majority of the field barring Rod decks.

Problematic decks are either combo decks or combo/control decks that use one counterspell to delay you just enough to combo out first.  It happens all the time that I play Drain Tendrils and they let Metalworker Resolve.  Then Skullclamp and Myr Retriever and Trike resolve.  Maybe throw in a Raveger.  I am beating down and feeling good.  Then turn 3 I go to play Staff for the win and it is Drained.  I swing for a ton dropping DT to under 10 life, but DT untaps and wins.  That sort of annoying behavior happens a lot with Drain based Combo/Control decks. 

That can be a common scenario when facing DT.  But there are those times when you can cast Staff, have it Drained, then kill a Myr and recast it ftw.  I love those little retreivers/divers.  They are about as close to Goblin Welder as MUD can ever get.

What are your sideboard strategies against combo, aggro, and control?

Heh, I didn't know there were only 3 deck choices again.

Currently my SB changes are as follows:
Combo-  Bring in Spheres and Chalice.  Two Trikes can come out(even 3 since you can gain infi life)
Aggro-   Take out Thorns.
Control-  You could bring in Spheres and Chalice as well. Pay attention to opponents cc of spells for CotV.

That's obviously a shortened answer, as I don't have my notes in front of me.  I can edit this later.

The SB was as generalized as I could make it.  If you have more aggro in your meta then 2 Razors and 2 Dupes could work(or more).  More combo?  4 Spheres and 4 Chalices.  Stax?  Needle pwns(or does it prick?)  I would probably take the orignal SB to a large tournament though.

Mike

[forests failed you]

I agree it looks like your match up against Workshop aggro would be extremely strong, especially if they are Mono Brown and don't have access to Goblin Welder.  Although I must confess much of your stratagy seems very soft to a resolved Goblin Welder--perhaps, not so much against Workshops, but in particular against a deck with permission like Control Slaver.

In particular I noticed that your deck looks like it would have a very difficult time beating decks that play with Mana Drain and then win by casting Yawgmoth's Will.  Or, also you seem like you might have some trouble beating Storm decks.  You don't have very much disruption in your maindeck, nor do you have ways to find your disruption or the pieces of your combo in a pinch.  Rather, you seem very dependent upon just having the correct cards at the correct time.  I think that cards like Tangle Wire would greatly help you to improve these sorts of match ups.

Other than that slight critique of those two match ups it seems as though you have constructed a very interesting and explosive deck that may very well be fantastic in a metagame full of Workshops, and especially against Dredge. 

[LotusHead]

I am considering taking my MUD List and going 9 Balls 9 Strips (ie, +4 Ghost Quarters).  Have you tested GQ out in a post Thorn Meta? 

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

I am considering taking my MUD List and going 9 Balls 9 Strips (ie, +4 Ghost Quarters).  Have you tested GQ out in a post Thorn Meta? 

ghost quarters is insane,I tested ghost quarters for a long time then took it to top 8 at a 48 man event last month I really wouldn't take it all the way up to 9, 7 was amazing, 8 would have been the number I'd like to fit.

[madmanmike25]

Late reply, welcome to my world.

I agree it looks like your match up against Workshop aggro would be extremely strong, especially if they are Mono Brown and don't have access to Goblin Welder.  Although I must confess much of your stratagy seems very soft to a resolved Goblin Welder--perhaps, not so much against Workshops, but in particular against a deck with permission like Control Slaver.

What can I say?  Goblin Welder is the best 1cc creature ever printed.  The solution: hope to see a Trike or Sword game 1 and SB in Needles.  How many Welders does Slaver run these days?  Also, how often do you see Slaver?  I would answer with "2" and "not often".  The good news is that Welders don't always spell GG against you.

In particular I noticed that your deck looks like it would have a very difficult time beating decks that play with Mana Drain and then win by casting Yawgmoth's Will.

Drains are a bitch, I cannot say that enough.  It really depends on what they sink that mana into.  If nothing good happens during their next main phase then Drain just reverted into Counter Spell, and you have ways of getting that artifact back.  The good news is that not too many decks are packing 4 Drains.

Or, also you seem like you might have some trouble beating Storm decks.

Agreed.  I stated that the combo matchup is unfavorable.  Having a combo of my own helps a tad, though.  SB helps even more.

You don't have very much disruption in your maindeck, nor do you have ways to find your disruption or the pieces of your combo in a pinch.  Rather, you seem very dependent upon just having the correct cards at the correct time. 

Thats MUD for you.  We don't have access to any reasonable tutors so that's why we play with 3-4 copies of certain cards.  That is the downside.  The upside is you NEVER get color screwed and you have potential for 'broken' plays as well(thanks to Staff).  Don't dismiss Clamp though.  It is a very potent draw engine in this deck.  And Jar is just sick.

RE: Tanglewire
I went over this a bit in my last post.  It's a good card, yes.  But it doesn't always protect you as you would assume.

Other than that slight critique of those two match ups it seems as though you have constructed a very interesting and explosive deck that may very well be fantastic in a metagame full of Workshops, and especially against Dredge. 

Thanks.  You are correct, this is a meta deck.  I hope Ichorid sticks around to keep Drain decks in check and that people keep playing shop Aggro!

@Lotushead
Na, I wouldn't touch GQ unless I had Crucibles.  Simple as that.  They were fun when I tested a MUD Stax deck though.

Mike

[Evol daN]

Hi again Mike... Long time no see.

Oddly enough I have been testing a deck which runs along these lines. Unfortunately, I have to say that there has been a definate upswing in welder Blue. Decks like Slaver, Claw, random thirst/Platz Angel decks seem to be all over the online meta. I just hate getting owned by my own Ravager.

I agree with your observations on T. Wire.  Wire is abused far more efficiently in decks like Uba Stax... decks that have a primay goal of locking out mana and swinging damage. Locking down perms is not the goal here.

I wonder if you have tried any copies of Scroll Rack? .... 2 ScRacks becomes copies 5 and 6 of the key spells early in the game... it becomes slightly impotent in about half of the midgames, yet... ScRacking for 2 is still good. I actually found that this card singely improved the combo match especially post SB when it frequently dug up the second Wasteland, Chalice, or the missing (I WIN NOW..... YES!) piece.

[madmanmike25]

Howdy Dan,

Yeah I have put down Stax for a while to work on MUD.  Never fear, my Stax deck is still sleeved and ready to go should I hear the call.

I agree with your observations on T. Wire.  Wire is abused far more efficiently in decks like Uba Stax... decks that have a primay goal of locking out mana and swinging damage. Locking down perms is not the goal here.

Had to quote this because it's so true.  People think that Twire > Drains.  That depends entirely on the other cards in your deck.  In this case of MAD MUD: Twire=delayed Drains.  In addition you would have to decrease functional cards in the deck.  Tanglewire doesn't help my mulligan decisions whatsoever.  To clarify even more, Tanglewire is a solid card but it is the most optimal when used in a deck that contains;

4 Smokestacks
4 Goblin Welders
4 Chalice of the Void
(looks kinda like a Stax deck, yes?)

The exception is of course Twire in an aggro deck.  While both this deck and Shop aggro contain Swords, my critters are mainly 1/x's while they have Juggs.  Plus they have the Welders for easier recursion.  Retrievers/Divers are temporary recursion and I would rather be getting back a better card.

RE:  Scroll Rack

Never thought about this one.  It seems it would make the deck even more dependent on the combo and I wonder if Serum Powder would do a better job.  And truth be told I wouldn't want to use Powders.  It's worth considering though, maybe in place of 2 Swords.  That might make me too susceptible to Welders however.

RE: Welders owning you-  SB'ing Needles helps a lot.

Mike

P.S.  on a side note, a minor redeeming quality vs. Oath is that you get to Clamp tokens.

[Bill Copes]

***I'm posting this because I PM'd Mike about the deck last week, asking what he thought, since I used his deck as a basis for this one.  I haven't tested the mud version yet, but will do so in the next week or two***

I played a different version of this list at Myriad Games this past Saturday:

(*Proxy)

* 4 Mishra's Workshop
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
2 Badlands
2 Ancient Tomb
1 Tolarian Academy

1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
* 1 Mox Sapphire
* 1 Mox Jet
1 Lotus Petal
* 1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt

4 Metal Worker
4 Myr Retriever
2 Duplicant
* 2 Arcbound Ravager
1 Triskelion

4 Cabal Therapy
2 Goblin Welder
* 1 Ancestral Recall
1 Tinker
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Skull Clamp
3 Staff of Domination
1 Mind Slaver
1 Memory Jar
1 Trinisphere

Sideboard:
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Jester's Cap
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Rack and Ruin
2 Extirpate
1 Duplicant
1 Triskelion

Despite having a terrible finish of 2-3 (this can be attributed to me playing badly/opponent being able to mise the shit out of me with lucky topdecks)  I feel that if I was actually on my game, this thing could be a contender.

Mini Report -- My memory is utter shit, so this is probably completely off, baring the results.  If anyone reading this played me over the weekend and feels the need to correct my poor words, by all means feel free.

Round 1 - Grand Inquisitor with Tyrant Oath (0-2)

Game 1 - Very fuzzy trying to recollect this, but I feel like I had the game in control with therapy disruption, a chalice on 1 and token-clampage, but he was able to rip a timely oath (after stating that he was going to do so) and pulverize me with brain-freeze action.

Game 2 - This time I know I was in control, with mad therapies being fired away and a chalice on 0 keeping him from dumping all of the power in his hand.  We fought over stuff and I eventually tinkered a Jester's Cap into play, but didn't have the mana to activate it that turn.  He didn't have any tyrants in his hand at the time, but on his turn, managed to ponder into one, preventing me from capping them all away the following turn.  Shortly after, he chain of vapor's the chalice back to my hand and goes nuts.

He said afterward that he mised the shite out of me, and that the deck actually fared pretty well.  I'm trusting his word, for Steve is not a liar, nor a scumbag and would not deceive my simple mind with false statements of deck competitivity (word invention FTW).

Round 2 - Some Muttering Guy with Tyrant Blue

Game 1 - I couldn't understand a single thing he said, but I knew what all of his spells did.  Having double Mystic Remora on the board when you opponent has a hand full of non-creature spells is some good.  He quickly defeated me since he drew something like 20 extra cards this game.  Note that in testing a few days before, with Pyromasta, I was having a dandy time against Tyrant Blue game one.  I don't think he took a single game against me, pre board.  Post board was a completely different story, at least with his version.

Game 2 - This one was much better for me, since I was actually able to Reb things.  I remember having to waste the use of a myr retriever in order to Therapy away a back to basics in his hand, since it ultimately shuts everything I do down.  I wasn't able to get a staff or a worker to stick at the same time.  There was one point where I knew he had at least 1 tyrant in hand, and he was short on cards.  I therapied.  He brainstormed in response.  Thinking he'd make an awesome play of putting the tyrant on top of his library, I named Meditate.  He revealed a hand of 2 tyrants and frigging Time Twister, of all cards.  I was able to reb one when it hit play, and therapy the other.  But then he cast twister and managed to draw directly into his brainfreeze combo.

One point to note during both of these games:  he meditated 2 or 3 times, each time he immediately followed with timewalk, negating my free turn.   Nice of him to be able to do this several times.

I feel that this is the match that I played most poorly, because I know that it's favorable for me from testing in the past weeks.


Round 3 - Sarah Yarrington - Fairies and Rogues and Merfolk, Oh MY!

Game 1 - I have no idea what I'm staring at.  I do know that I keep a hand that would have been awesome against shops, which she has been playing for a while (a couple workers and chalices).  She drops a 1/1 flyer turn one, which rogues in an earwig squad turn 2, removing goodies from my deck that would be able to dupe or trike me out of the situation.  I lose to flying +1/+1 countered monsters and ground troops bigger than metalworker.

Game 2 - I stopped caring and let her run me over.

Compliments to Sarah for always  being a fun opponent and playing an actual "Rogue" deck, which was in stark contrast to my "Rogueless" rogue deck.

Round 4 - Dissappointment - The Bye

Round 5 - Ryan Marek - Who can build their Sanctioned Side Event Deck First Wins

Game 1 - I sit and wait for 20 minutes while he tries to figure out how to splash swords to plowshares and maindeck Blazing Archon into a powerless tyrant oath deck.  I call the invisible judge for 20 minutes of slow play and he gets a game loss.

Game 2 - With both of our Side event decks ready, we test them against each other, to find that Goblin Charbelcher, whilst not fully powered, is much mightier than Tyrant oath that is not able to combo out via moxen.

Since I had my deck built before I even showed up to Myriad, Marek conceded, I won the match, and therefore took home the title of Master of the Universe.



So what does all of this mean?

I guess one thing that needs to be said is that branching out into multiple colors enables you to actually play with good sideboard cards, like REB.

Goblin welder was a non-factor the whole day, and I probably shouldn't have bothered to include him.

Tutors are hot when trying to find your combo.  Tinker for Jester's cap almost won me a game.  If I had 2 more mana at the time, it would have.

I am not able to abuse Ravager as much as Mr. Madmanmike can.  It was generally poor for me during the day's performance.

I probably shouldn't have bothered with mindslaver this time around -- however, I never saw it during the day to abuse it.

Cabal therapy is the stone cold nuts and has mad synergy with everything in the deck (except chalice on 1).  It clears away force of will, Mana Drain, Oath, and anything you'd be afraid to see after turn 1.  Clamping something and sacking it to therapy feels dirty.

I haven't been too thrilled with chalice in this build.  Unfortunately, if I switch to spheres over chalices, I have no other mana disruption to back up their usefulness (shamans, strip effects, etc).  I could probably try Tangle wires in this slot, with Gorilla shamans instead of goblin welders.

I hate ancient tomb something fierce.  It is a terrible, terrible card and should be a land that does something.

This build is probably a lot less explosive than the mono-brown build.

I quit for now.

[Dralock]

Mike likes to push for solidarity in his deck builds, to make sure the purpose of the concept comes out in every game, instead of being a string of random win or lose situations.

I'll be posting how it goes in an upcoming tournament (in April). I hope someone else has some results/insight. The 5c thing helps for people to see that all of those disruption elements are good for keeping some matchups at bay. I think the regular brown-pound lineup really makes the deck shine, though.

[Rock Lee]

Nice Deck

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=35060.0

[AngryPheldagrif]

Nice Deck

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=35060.0

16 maindeck cards different from your deck is a big chunk of independence. I thought we'd gotten over things like this? You should be happy that people are still innovating the strategy you posted 4 months back and giving him advice as to what you think of his build.

As for the deck itself, I can honestly say that running a mere 5 pieces of potential turn 1 disruption with 0 turn 0 disruption is a tremendous and in my opinion highly unacceptable risk in this environment. That Flash can kill you before you get a turn is simply a fact of life, but what you should be worried about is the potential for them to simply take an extra turn or two and lay the mana to go off since you have only 10 cards total that can disrupt their mana and they even have their own Forces to defend. This same concern carries over to decks such as Tyrant Oath and GAT, which can severely punish you with an opening Oath or Dryad.

[Shock Wave]

As for the deck itself, I can honestly say that running a mere 5 pieces of potential turn 1 disruption with 0 turn 0 disruption is a tremendous and in my opinion highly unacceptable risk in this environment. That Flash can kill you before you get a turn is simply a fact of life, but what you should be worried about is the potential for them to simply take an extra turn or two and lay the mana to go off since you have only 10 cards total that can disrupt their mana and they even have their own Forces to defend.

The sad reality is that most decks aren't going to be able to both cover their bases against Flash and stick to their game plan. That doesn't mean that they're not viable, but rather that they have poor first game against Flash. Even GAT, with its 4 FoW and 4 Duress, only has 8 relevant disruption spells on the play, and can find itself in tough against the raw power of the deck. Often, it doesn't make sense to hedge strongly against Flash simply because it may dilute your deck, and Flash always has the possibility of killing you regardless of what is in your hand anyways.

[Demonic Attorney]

Let's try to keep debating over credit for this or that innovation to a minimum.  Thanks.

[madmanmike25]

Rock Lee, don't be bitter.  I recall sending you a pm suggesting a collaboration and received no answer.  A shame we couldn't have worked together.  Sorry if you got agitated with my suggestion to add Trinisphere to a Workshop deck.  To insinuate that I somehow 'ripped off your deck' is laughable and highly inappropriate.

You should be happy that people are still innovating the strategy you posted 4 months back and giving him advice as to what you think of his build.

That 'strategy' was in fact pretty old before his post, not that it matters.  Realizing that Metalworker costs 3 mana, and therefore works nicely with Shops, AND is good in a deck that runs tons of artifacts has been around for a long time.  Skullclamp has been known to draw plenty of cards in its days.  As I have previously mentioned, I think the Rivers deck gets the credit since that was the first list I ever saw of this type.

As for the deck itself, I can honestly say that running a mere 5 pieces of potential turn 1 disruption with 0 turn 0 disruption is a tremendous and in my opinion highly unacceptable risk in this environment.

And you are right, if your environment is ripe with Flash decks.  I would never recommend you play MUD in that sort of field.  This deck was sort of my answer to Stax, Aggro, Shop Aggro, Ichorid, and GAT to an extent.  Meta knowledge is key when deciding what decklist to play.

How many decks do NOT suffer to a first turn Flash, Oath, or Dryad?

I agree strongly with Shock Wave's post.  We have SB's for a reason.  I wanted to build a deck that was more proactive rather than bogged down with 9+disruption cards without a solid plan.  If not I would have just kept playing Uba Stax.  MUD decks don't have a FoW to stop broken stupidity on the draw.  I'm not naive in thinking that MUD will ever be as broken as decks with cards like Recall and Yawgwill.  I just wanted to make a MUD deck as 'broken' as I could with the current card selection.  I stand behind my belief that MUD is still a viable decktype and so is the list that I posted.  Even with decks like Flash running around.

Mike

[AngryPheldagrif]

I do not disagree with MUD's potential, I just take issue on a conceptual level with the direction you are taking it, namely more creatures, more interactions, and less disruption.

My reference point for MUD that I am going off is Menendian's list from this article. His list, according to my counts, runs 17 pieces of prison-type disruption, 8 aggro creatures (Juggernauts and Triskelions), and 8 general interaction cards (Metalworkers and Swords of Fire and Ice). Being mono-brown, this is supported by a single piece of draw, Memory Jar. This gives him an extremely high probability of having one if not more pieces of disruption in his opening hand, yet a comparatively low probability of temporarily dead cards.

Running your list's numbers, I get 5 pieces of prison-type disruption, 3 aggro creatures (Triskelions), 16 general interaction cards (Metalworkers, Ravagers, Swords of Fire and Ice and Skullclamps) and 10 specific interaction cards (Retrievers, Divers and Staffs). Again, being mono-brown, supported by the same single Memory Jar and the resource and time-intensive Skullclamps. You have a dangerously low probability of having disruption in your opening hand, while a drastically increased probability of dead cards and missed interactions.

The point I am trying to make is that your list seems to me to be a classic example of 'cool play' trap. The interactions between Metalworker and Staff, Ravager and graveyard recurrers, Skullclamp and 1/1s, they're all nice and neat on paper, but you have to play them out in principle against Flash, Oath, Dryad, Empty the Warrens, Tendrils, and Phyrexian Dreadnought, not as entire decks but as linear strategic endpoints. Your only realistic and timely competitor against those is Worker/Staff, and you don't even run a full set of Staffs, not to mention a virtually negligible ability to dig for them in a timely fashion.

I read through Abdullah's report and the points I saw illustrated exactly what I'm talking about in his first three matches.

He ripped an Oath and ran me over . . . he Chain of Vapors the Chalice and goes nuts . . . I wasn't able to get a Staff or a Worker to stick at the same time . . . I lose to flying +1/+1 countered monsters and ground troops bigger than Metalworker.

Though his build was altered, it goes to the same ideas of the cute strategy versus the winning strategy. With all due respect to Shockwave, writing off matchups or saying 'that's what the sideboard is for' no longer works in these times. Being that this is mono-brown, the latter is even worse for you. Your options are limited to a single meager slice of the color pie, while you will have to deal with everything from Shattering Spree, Viashino Heretic, Rack and Ruin, Rebuild and Hurkly's Recall, Energy Flux, Trygon Predator, Oxidize, and Artifact Mutation. Face it, artifacts are probably the second most efficiently and universally hated part of Magic behind the graveyard, and any Ichorid player will tell you that 90% of their match losses are by losing games 2 and 3 after taking the first. Working that backwards and saying you'll sacrifice the first game is both counterintuitive and, well, simply incorrect on all relevant theoretical levels.

Again, I've loved Workshops throughout a ton of my lengthy Vintage career and agree completely with Smmenen's placing of the deck in the first tier of competitors, I simply think you're taking a fairly refined archetype and breaking down some of its major strengths for no good reason. You're supposed to be the second most consistent deck in the format besides Ichorid. Don't forget that.

[Shock Wave]

With all due respect to Shockwave, writing off matchups or saying 'that's what the sideboard is for' no longer works in these times. Being that this is mono-brown, the latter is even worse for you. Your options are limited to a single meager slice of the color pie, while you will have to deal with everything from Shattering Spree, Viashino Heretic, Rack and Ruin, Rebuild and Hurkly's Recall, Energy Flux, Trygon Predator, Oxidize, and Artifact Mutation. Face it, artifacts are probably the second most efficiently and universally hated part of Magic behind the graveyard, and any Ichorid player will tell you that 90% of their match losses are by losing games 2 and 3 after taking the first. Working that backwards and saying you'll sacrifice the first game is both counterintuitive and, well, simply incorrect on all relevant theoretical levels.

I think you've misinterpreted my post as an argument for or against this particular archetype. The point I was making is that you cannot design a deck to both function correctly and have enough relevant disruption pieces against Flash in the first game. Consider that on the draw, MUD has absolutely no answers to Flash. This isn't a matter of reconciling a shortcoming but a fact of any archetype that does not run FoW or Leyline. This reminds me of when Trinisphere was unrestricted and people were trying to build decks. The common question was: "Yeah, this seems ok, but how do you deal with Turn 1 Trinisphere!?". You had FoW, Wasteland, or lose as your options. Now, for most decks, the only guaranteed way to stopping Flash is a first turn Leyline, because FoW doesn't even cut it anymore.

Tailoring your sideboard to fight against Flash or other decks that try to win extremely early isn't necessarily "working backwards" either. Forsaking the first game for the purpose of having a good chance at winning the match is not a novel or theoretically incorrect approach at deckbuilding.

[Rock Lee]

I still don't see how this deck is better than the deck that won the MTG Gambler's Open

1º David Beduzzi - Aggro MUD
"Thorn in my Main"

4 Metal Worker
3 Triskelion
3 Karn, Silver Golem
3 Arcbound Ravager
4 CHalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Tangle Wire
3 Sword of FIre Ice
1 Trinisphere
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sappire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
2 City of Traitors
3 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Mishra's workshop

SB:
3 Powder Keg
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Pithing Needle
3 Spawning Pit
3 Tormod's Crypt

Mad Mud seems confused in design. Low disruption combined with clamping and a desire to attack with SoFI. Seems like giving your opponent huge chances to kick you hard.

The later versions of Serra & My deck, which has been being designed and updated weekly since its posting on that thread, runs nearly double the threats of Mad Mud. In the realm of the 17 pieces that David Beduzzi won with, unlike the 5 you run in Mad Mud.

I would be highly interested in seeing how your two-fisted testing manages to beat a turn 1 duress or a single force, followed by a synergistic deck (Tyrant Oath, GAT, even Flash)

I'm always willing to contribute innovation and work together. In your PM you stated that we agreed to disagree on Trinisphere's role. Something I think requires more than a simple auto-include in a combo oriented deck. If you want me to post my current decklist, which deals with some of the potential problems I see with MadMud, I'll gladly contribute it to this thread.

[madmanmike25]

I hear and understand your concerns regarding maindeck disruption and consistency.  There comes a point however, where if all you are doing is trying to disrupt your opponent and not actually win........all that disruption only ends up delaying the inevitable.  Don't get me wrong, I love my artifact disruption in Stax a deck that tries to be laser-focused on impeding mana and destroying permanents or preventing them from coming into play all together.

You can still lose with 17 maindeck disruption cards to Flash on the draw.  Flash is notorious for setting a stupid standard in Vintage.  I refuse to let Flash dictate what deck I should play with.  If that were the case we should maindeck Leylines in EVERY deck.  No thanks.

You can still lose to a turn one Oath.  Hell, you can even lose when they pay that whole 3 mana for Oath after you lay down your turn 1 Sphere/Thorn.  Do you think the Oath player cares that you played a Juggernaut turn 2?  Hardly.

I wouldn't play MUD with so little maindeck disruption in a heavy Combo field.  Truth be told, now that Tyrant Oath is gaining popularity MUD may have to sit on the shelf for a bit.

Again, this deck was a way to combat Ichorid and other Shop decks(aggro and Stax) that had gained some popularity due to being able to slow down Gush(read: GAT) decks.  I guess now that Aggro has surfaced, Oath has reminded us why it is bad to play with creatures.  That's all just part of the cycle.  All Combo decks need to do is just maindeck a Rebuild(with Scrolls) and more basics to combat your disruption.

But by all means, feel free to add in more maindeck disruption if it suits you.  They could be added fairly easily without totally compromising the deck.  You have the choice of Chalice, Sphere and Tangles.  Whatever floats your boat.  If the meta calls for more disruption, then it should be done.

To reiterate, if I were to add more than 4 additional maindeck disruption cards I would go ahead and turn this into a MUD list revolving around Smokestack.

Why?  Because soft locks simply do not last.

I would be highly interested in seeing how your two-fisted testing manages to beat a turn 1 duress or a single force, followed by a synergistic deck (Tyrant Oath, GAT, even Flash)

Mry Retrievers and Junk Divers work lovely vs. Duress and FoW.  This deck has synergies as well....and yet still has the potential for a turn 2 combo, on which it is not reliant on.  And truth be told many decks can lose to a turn 1 Duress and/or FoW.  It happens.  This deck does not scoop to those 2 cards.

Rock Lee, I would be interested in what maindeck disruption cards you would add to this list so by all means, contribute.  I'm quite sure almost every Shop player has a list simliar to this, so I would prefer to use the original list as a starting point otherwise there are just too many tangents to go on.  MUD can go in many directions.  Also congrats on full membership, I thought you had to take a test for that.

[Rock Lee]

@ retriever & junk driver:
These guys are great at what they do, which is offer you an excellent plan B. The problem with reinforcing your plan B too much, is you end up with minimal-to-no Plan A. If I were playing in a meta encompassed entirely by discard and permanent destruction, I would certainly play more than 4x retriever, but given the combo oriented meta, where permanents are an afterthought, this seems like a poor place to put your attention.

Shop Aggro already has a great game against Fish, other aggro, and Staxx, so tipping the scales further in your favor for these matchups with 3x junk driver seems excessive.


@ other answers to the current Meta:
Strip recursion - Crucible
Jester's Cap
Thorn

Are the three varied hate cards that seem to wreck the current meta the most. My current build runs 4x caps on the main: 80% of the time, it works all the time.
Gush is highly land-dependent, and keeping them at one land hugely neuters the deck.
Thorn offers huge synergy for you, while slapping them silly. Non-symmetrical cards are what magic is all about.

Oath is honestly not a poor match-up, if you have strip recursion, caps, and skullclamps. Maindeck testing against Reflection Oath with those hate cards gave my shop deck a 65/35 matchup, which is honestly quite good for deck running 15 creatures.

I used to be a huge fan of MD Chalice of the Void. When GAT, Superlong, and Flash were all contending for top dog, Chalice at 1 murdered people. Now, I think its honestly often better set at 2 against the appropriate matchups. early for zero against flash, later at 2.



P.S. I have no idea how I made Full Member. Prolly some judge mistaking my collusion for membership.

[madmanmike25]

Jester's Cap is a good idea.  It has worked for me in the past.  They could actually be worked in the maindeck.  I like the fact that they are proactive since MUD has no tutors and prefers to actually put its cards into play rather than hold onto them.

If not put in the main, I definitely want them in the SB.

Forgot about them, thanks.

Mike