Grind Servant G/R Painter

[KingHeavy]

Hi all, There's been some really excellent Painter's Servant decks running around, so I thought i'd throw this one out there!

4 wooded foothills
4 taiga
2 mountain (arabian nights version!)
1 forest
1 mana crypt
1 mana vault
1 black lotus
1 lotus petal
1 mox emerald
1 mox ruby
1 wheel of fortune
1 summoner's pact
1 negation pact
1 fastbond
4 land grant
4 ESG
4 SSG
4 guttural response
4 REB
4 pyroblast
4 serum powder
4 winds of change
4 painter's servant
3 grindstone

rough SB
4 Ancient grudge
3 chalice
4 leyline of the void
2 tormod's crypt
2 pithing needle

Now I know how picky you vintage guys are, so dont freak on me cause there's a wheel and some winds of change in the list.  We're just getting started.  They're there to obviously zoom through the deck and are not a must, but as you can see I want to make a build (maybe not the best possible) that doesn't include blue.  Now that one blue pact is an exception just as additional free counter backup (as the summoner's pact is to last ditch find a servant) if I have the combo and no blasts or gutts, which is an awesome card for vintage, especially with painter naming blue. 

most of the deck is pretty obious with the guides, fetch lands and land grants, the heavy number of blasts and gutts mean a lot of control for most matchups and def. destruction once the painter is out.

a note about pithing needle:  this card, if plyed against me naming painter is a instant win, so artifact removal becomes inmportant, however, I still think a set of main deck pithing needles not only let me stop opposing needles, chalice, bridge, but reduce the need for artifact removal (thoughts, please...)

Serum visions is really important in this build as it allows me to quickly dig through my deck to find what I need, and I know wind of change and WOF are kind of cards disadvantage, but I have plenty of counters and Guides to hopefully win the counter war.
 

So I would like to know what you all think, this deck is easily fast enough to compete, I think it just needs tightening ( like is the fastbond nec. or can I reliable reduce stones in favor of tutoring?)  open up!


-King

[Nefarias]

I don't really have any comments on the deck itself, just thought I should bring up a few rules things.

First, Summoner's Pact only finds green creatures, so unless you already have a Painter out naming green, the only thing it can find in there are ESG's.

Second, Pithing Needle doesn't work the way you think it does. It stops activated abilities, something that Painter's Servant doesn't have. Pithing Needle does nothing against Servant, although naming Grindstone does work, and stops your kill. It also does absolutely nothing naming opposing Pithing Needles (it would stop itself from working! Time-Space rift!), Chalice, or Bridge (assuming you mean Bridge from Below).

So I think if you're worried about those three cards, you should find something that isn't Pithing Needle.

[Morphling420]

your name is king.... what exactly are you king of obviously not magic since you dont know the rules at all. RTFC's before you post a list there is already much better versions of this deck in the works youll see them after i win a few tournys.

Full Warning for violating rules 1) Writing Skills, 2) Inflammatory Posting, and 4) Lack of Content.
-Klep

[mtg247]

I'm not too sure about this mana base at all either. If your going to run the foothills, I'd also have some badlands. This way you could run some tasty goodies like demonic tutor and vamp tutor just for starters.

I was wondering if you had already tried to run a full set of mox's? It seems like they would increase your odds of having turn 1/2 wins.

Also, regrowth is a real hottie. I'm thinking that it could, at min. be better than summoners pact, but I like it better than the pact of negation also. If they counter your crucial card, you get it back.

But then there's that other issue of, what is your opponent doing on their turn. Something like duress or thoughtsieze, in my opinion, are much better than any counters you could run for the simple fact that, your deck can function much better with black than with blue cards.

[KingHeavy]

Thanks for the replies!  ONe thing that kills creativity more than anything is conformity.  If these new cards and strategies were simply rejected due to current vintage stigma, then we would all be very bored very quickly, as well as quite jaded!

Nefarias, thanks for clearing up some of those rules specifics, I will look for alternatives to those cards as threats and if you have suggestions, please reply. 

I would like to note that I've been playing magic since The Dark, but have only recently been reintroduced after the ebb of homelands through Ravnica, so some of the timing and ability rules I might be foggy on, but I respct positive correction and feedback as opposed to simple insults.  We are all here to learn, even World Champs, Primium article readers and posters, and guys in basements.

Morphling, you make me laugh! and you got red inked so... congrats on future wins and hey got a minute?

and mtg247, Thankyou, I agree, adding black for 2-3 tutors would greatly improve the deck, and those slots are right there with the pacts to be removed, and I definately will add a regrowth.  adding the jet mox is a def. when black is involved, but  the other two might not be necessary with the 8 spirit guides.  I also sort of agree about the discard, feeling cabal therapy maybe to be the best  due to reusability, and this is an interesting point.  With 3-6 discard spells i can grab key stuff of my opponent's or draw out counters to stick mhy good stuff, but with the serums and winds of change( which still really need testing) I should have plenty of counters and blasts when everybody draws five or so cards at once.  I know this theory is backwards to card advantage, but technically so is Force of Will, it just becomes acceptable because of its effect.  With a spirit guide and a counter of my own, I too can first turn counter all the live long day.

So a quite rewrite of the list.

4 wooded foothills
3 taiga
3 badlands
1 mountain (arabian nights version!)
1 mana crypt
1 mana vault
1 black lotus
1 lotus petal
1 mox emerald
1 mox ruby
1 mox jet
1 demonic tutor
1 vampiric tutor
1 imperial seal
1 fastbond
1 regworth
4 land grant
4 ESG
4 SSG
4 guttural response
4 REB
3 pyroblast
4 serum powder
2 winds of change
3 painter's servant
1 grindstone
4 duress

rough SB
4 Ancient grudge
3 chalice
4 leyline of the void
2 tormod's crypt
2 pithing needle

Ya, this seems a lot tighter and more direct and reliable, thanks again for he posts and keep em coming as there should be a variety of viable decks coming from this new combination.  Thanks again!,

-King

www.cdbaby.com/cd/dubmunk

[Bill Copes]

Winds of change seems really sub-par.  Have you thought of using Dark Confidant in its place?  Also, this deck has a lot of mana sources (fetches + land grants included).  I think it could do you good to pair back some of the mana sources (maybe the land grants), to add some more utility to the deck.

From the shell, it seems like you took a belcher list and modified it to fit the servant combo.  I think this could potentially be a great direction to take a variation of the deck.

I tinkered with it a little bit.  Here's a rough draft:

4 wooded foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 taiga
3 badlands
2 ESG
4 SSG

1 mana crypt
1 mana vault
1 black lotus
1 lotus petal
1 mox emerald
1 mox ruby
1 mox jet
1 mox sapphire
1 mox pearl
1 Sol Ring
--------------------------
28 mana sources

4 Dark Confidant
4 painter's servant
4 grindstone
3 Empty The Warrens (cheap spells = storm)
--------------------------
15 Win Conditions

1 demonic tutor
1 vampiric tutor
1 imperial seal
1 yawgmoth's will
4 Manamorphose
--------------------------
8 Tutors/Filtering/Why play black without will

4 REB
3 pyroblast
3 duress
--------------------------
10 Protection


This version rides on the back of confidant more than anything, but also gives you the option of easily storming into empty the warrens, as well as having a consistent amount of the main combo parts.

[zeus-online]

I like abdullah's list, but why are none of you playing with demonic consultation? Since you're running 3-4 of each combo pieces its almost better then demonic tutor.

Some basics might give you a slightly better chance against Stax/ShopAggro, other then going first your current chances seems very low.

So i'd probably do something like:

-1 taiga
-1 badlands
-1 Pyroblast
+1 Mountain
+1 Forest
+1 Demonic consultation

...Another thing, you're not running any rituals! fitting those in seems logical, and since running rituals seems logical, why not necropotence?
Bargain might be too expensive, but if it's castable it's a must in a combo deck.

/Zeus

[Bill Copes]

I agree with adding in rituals and consultation.  I think adding the basics are probably meta dependent, but I'll include them here:

- 2 Elvish Spirit Guide
- 2 Duals
- 1 Empty The Warrens
- 1 Wooded Foothills
- 1 Manamorphose

+4 Dark Ritual
+2 Basics
+1 Necropotence


Updated List
-------------------------------
3 wooded foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 taiga
2 badlands
1 forest
1 moutain
4 SSG

1 mana crypt
1 mana vault
1 black lotus
1 lotus petal
1 mox emerald
1 mox ruby
1 mox jet
1 mox sapphire
1 mox pearl
1 Sol Ring
4 Dark Ritual
--------------------------
29 mana sources

4 Dark Confidant
4 painter's servant
4 grindstone
2 Empty The Warrens (cheap spells = storm)
--------------------------
14 Win Conditions

1 demonic tutor
1 vampiric tutor
1 imperial seal
1 yawgmoth's will
1 demonic consultation
1 necropotence
3 Manamorphose
--------------------------
9 Tutors/Filtering/Draw

4 REB
2 pyroblast
3 duress
--------------------------
9 Protection

I just got a play-set of painters and grindstones myself.  I'm not sure this is the shell I'd play them in, but I'd like to get this to work for somebody.

Should wheel of fortune be in here?