Tezzeret (Shards of Alarar card, quite interesting)

[Nehptis]

@Neo

You are correct sir.

That makes Tezz even better.  Since, there are very few Main Deck direct damage spells to worry about.  So, that leaves only worrying about Tezz being attacked for lethal.  I like those odds.

[Nefarias]

wath do you thing about his head? I only know cards from Unhinged with pictures that go out of the "picture"-box?

Actually, all the Lorwyn Planeswalkers do this too. Check it Out

[Imsomniac101]

Holy crap. I disappear for a couple of months then the DCI then decides to suck up to the Vintage community.

My first impressions of this card were:
- win more
- impressive but ultimately useless

Upon closer inspection, I feel that the card is one of the most broken cards printed in a while, since Gifts Ungiven.

Once this thing hits play, you essentially have more mana to work with, since you can just dump all your artifact mana onto the board from the library.

And this thing combos with the 3rd best card in Vintage..... Time Walk. Dump your artifacts onto the board, then use the mana + tutor to Time Walk, then just stomp your opponents with 5/5's. Simple and effective. Painter is also an easy kill.

Also, as it is currently worded, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you can untap 0 artifacts to up the loyalty count as the text reads "untap UP TO two target artifacts".

Also, I'm not quite familiar with the rules, but can this thing be targetted by "remove permanent" spells? ie bounce?

[Outlaw]

I think you can only use a planeswalkers ability once per turn...

[themasonjar]

I think you can only use a planeswalkers ability once per turn...

Sigh... silly vintage players.  Personally I think it is good thing that Wizards slips some planeswalkers into this format - shake things up a bit.

[Nehptis]

How PWs work:

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Article.aspx?x=magic/rules/planeswalkers

Has anyone done any serious testing with Tezz yet?  I still don't think it makes sense to waste slots on Painters and Grindstone.  Vault and 5/5s are more than enough.

[Mdizzle4life85]

@Nephtis : Tendrils is loosing life, not dealing damages, so it can't be redirected to a planeswalker....

I think that everyone also forget that with 4 artefacts in play, this guy is autokill without passing the turn, especially when played in Mid/late game of a control mirror.

Loss of life counts as damage.

[NicolaeAlmighty]

Loss of life counts as damage.

Not true. Damage may cause loss of life, but loss itself is not considered damage. Hence why Angel's Grace, Worship, and Circle of Protection: Black can't stop Tendrils of Agony.

[Implacable]

How PWs work:

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Article.aspx?x=magic/rules/planeswalkers

Has anyone done any serious testing with Tezz yet?  I still don't think it makes sense to waste slots on Painters and Grindstone.  Vault and 5/5s are more than enough.

Tested a mono-blue control shell - 2x Planeswalker, Vault+Key/Tezz & Tinker + DSC for the kill - today against UW Fish.  Went 60-40 over about 20 games.  Pretty good.  The combo kill is great.

[zeus-online]

I'm a little worried about creatures beating him down, if you go: Tezzeret, -2 loyalty getting time vault....Then he's only got 2 counters left and would die to fire/Ice, dark confidant, a couple of welders or whatever your opponent might have.

But i must admit, that other then that i'm a little excited.

/Zeus

Edit: Just had a thought...In order for Tezzeret to instantly have an effect on the combo Match-Up, why not include a trinisphere maindeck in any drain deck featuring him?
Afterall he can fetch alot of disruptive artifacts, including: Crypt, Needle, 3Sphere, Sphere of resistance, chalice of the void (Only with 1 counter) Including maindeck sphere's should be quite good against combo.

[VagrantLest]

The creature decks of vintage aren't exactly fast so you could have another tutor target all together vs them, not just running out timevault asap. Tezzeret just seems like an amazing win condition to me in a blue control kind of shell with either mox diamonds and tolaria wests for academy or something like chrome mox and some ancient tombs to excel. I would even suggest keeping the count at 3 tezz(maybe even 4) with 4 fow and some number of misdirection. Chrome mox is a good selection IMO cus it'll alow for FIRST TURN DRAIN, which most people should be fond of.

Tutor targets i think should be almost auto includes to shape up different plans vs different decks.

Needle (CS)
Trinisphere (Storm)
Tormods (Dredge)
something vs creatures. Like even a steal wall or something can really inhibit that lone attack from dark confident.

Im not sure what the tutor target for creatures is but theres gotta be something, like phyrexian ironfoot should do well vs small guys and something like meekstone should be hell on stax fattys.

EDIT: Actually a gameplan that sounds great to me vs the fish creatures would be playing 4 tezz(between fow mis D and chrome this should be great) play 1, tutor for leonin blade trap, they hit tez, you untap and cast another, untapp your 2 mox pass the turn, they attack him, you blade trap untap turn your cards to 5/5s and win.

what I'm starting with for a base

4 Fow
2 Misd
4 Mana Drain
2 Arcane Denial

1 Brainstorm
1 Timewalk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Ponder
3 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Tinker
1 scroll
1 Echoing truth

4 Tezzeret

1 DSC
3 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Saphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Grim Monolith
1 Black Lotus
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Trinisphere
1 Time vault
1 Leonin Blade Trap

4 Ancient Tomb
islands
academy

 SB
Tsabo's Web
Thunderstaff (warrens and fish)
Null rod mebbe even?
Chalice?

[Seeker]

What I myself am testing, just for a different angle... I have neglected the maindeck Tormod's because, let's face it, this deck pretty much scoops to Dredge in this configuration. If an argument can be made for its use, I will gladly try to shoehorn it in.

    4 Island
    3 Polluted Delta
    2 Flooded Strand
    3 U. Sea
    1 Academy Ruins [considering an Island]
    1 Academy
    1 Seat of the Synod [also considering an Island]
    7 SoLoMoxen
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Mana Vault
    1 Lotus Petal

    4 Seeker
    1 Colossus

    4 Force of Will
    4 Mana Drain
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Thirst for Knowledge
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Echoing Truth
    1 Time Vault
    1 Time Walk
    1 Ponder
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Tinker
    1 Voltaic Key
    1 Fact or Fiction [yes? It's a Drain sink better than any but Tezzie himself]
    1 Trinisphere
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    1 Yawgmoth's Will

// Sideboard
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Echoing Truth
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Darkblast
1 Moonglove Extract [have any other bad players ever suggested this? It seems to fill the important niche of "this deck is completely unable to beat Welder" fairly well.]

Sideboard sucks, honestly, because this is still a prototype. Any feedback appreciated, I'm pretty damn bad at design.

[bronxie]

ok so i think Tezzeret is gonna be tha shit so im thinkin of ideas for it already

Mono-Blue Tazer

2 Tezzeret
1 Tinker
3 Trinket Mage

4 chrome mox
5 moxen
vault
crypt
sol ring
Black lotus
lotus petal

1 Tolarian Academy
5 Fetch
3 Underground Sea

4 Force of will
4 Mana Drain
3 Stifle
2 Trickbind

Vamp Tutor
Demonic Tutor

1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Platinum Angel
1 Phyrexian Dreadnoughts
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Engineered Explosives

4 Perilous Research
4 Hatching Plans
1 Ancestral
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder

SB
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Rune Snag
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
4 Duress





Any ideas i missed? im not sure what to do with it but it runs well so far and beats the tar out of painter combo and TPS + Long

thanks

Bronxie

[Seeker]

Any ideas i missed? im not sure what to do with it but it runs well so far and beats the tar out of painter combo and TPS + Long

Well, I love the maindeck Stifles, but your manabase is 100% Wastelandable, which doesn't seem so strong. The idea of hybridizing with Noughts is awesome, though. I'd rather have Thirsts than Researches/Plans, but that's just me - mostly because it frees you up to run Will and some Thoughtseizes or Duresses, or just maindeck MisD or something.

The Noughts are great. The Chromes I haven't tested but feel like they have a place in the deck. I'd add a basic land.

[Purple Hat]

any deck playing tezzeret should be playing voltaic key.

[Seeker]

any deck playing tezzeret should be playing voltaic key.

Well obv. You get the turn two "I win" draws without having to Drain into Tezzeret.

Although you're now making me wonder as to the validity of Trinket Mage solely on THAT basis, that he goes and gets Key, rather than him going and getting a lot of other stuff.

EDIT: Shards of Alara spoilers ahoy!

Relic of Progenitus
1
Artifact
Common

T: Target player removes a card in his or her graveyard from the game.
1, remove Relic of Progenitus from the game: Remove all graveyards from the game. Draw a card.

218/249

Yes? No?

[bronxie]

oh wow.  yes i do believe this is good.

[bronxie]

what about thirst and impulse for the draw engine?

[Xyre]

I've been trying to decide whether playing Tez, getting Time Vault, and waiting a turn is a sustainable solution for the metagame. I mean, it sounds like it will work most of the time, but you've invested a lot of mana into a not-quite-win-yet.

What about harnessing the power of Helm of Obedience-Leyline of the Void? Yes, if you don't have Leyline, it's kind of rough, but it's not like that card is bad in the current format (beats Will decks, Slaver, and Dredge), and that says win immediately for 4UU (and if you're setting this all up with Mana Drain, the difference between 3UU and 4UU is slim). The only problem is obviously casting Leyline if it's not in your opener, but there are ways that problem could be circumvented with creative deckbuilding. This would be more comboish than the proposed decks that play Tez like a Gifts-like control-combo deck.

[Implacable]

It's pretty solid, but I don't like what I've seen so far of a combo-control shell.  There isn't an engine good enough to make that kind of deck work in this format.  On the other hand, pure control with just a few win conditions works well. 

[bronxie]

im rockin tezz in deez nauts.  it removes 1 counter to go fetch noughts... how much better does it get? and you can untap him every turn after you have attacked.

[Skadrian]

well, why not just fetch time vault?
With nought you alse have to pass the turn, most probably even twice, after fetching it, with time vault you just win if your opponent doenst next turn

[andrewpate]

Time Vault also does not require you to be holding a Stifle effect.

[PETER FLUGZEUG]

I think Tezzeret is nice, but don't try to do too many cool things with it.

Straight forward might be the way to go.

Disruption:

4 Force of will
1 misdirection
4 mana drain
4 arcane denial
4 chalice of the void
1 trinisphere

Draw:

4 thirst for knowledge
1 fact or fiction
1 ancestral recall
1 merchant scroll
1 mystic remora
1 time walk

win:
3 Tezzeret the Sicker
1 tinker
1 darksteel colossus
1 time vault

solutions:
1 tormod's crypt
1 echoing truth
1 rushing river
1 pithing needle

Mana:
Black lotus
4x chrome mox
1 lotus petal
5x mox
1x mana crypt

1x tolarian academy
1x academy ruins
10x island

For a sideboard, you can go the transformational SB road turning into Control-nought. If you want to.

4x stifle/trickbind
4x sower of temptation/threads of disloyality
3x trinket mage
2x phyrexian dreadnought
1x heap doll
1x tormod's crypt

As said by another fellow, the decks scoops them up against ichorid, although chalice at 1 helps a little, giving you some tiny moment to take infinite turns or whatever without being therapied in you nice little anus. Post SB it gets only slightly better. You haven't got hate, you can just delay them a little via stifles/crypts/dolls and have to hope for a faster
clock.

BTW, I don't really know if key is worth it. I think mystic remora is better on it's own and sick with time vault as well.

Because of chalice@1 (the play of the deck, alongside having UU open Turn 1) and no shuffling, BS is missing and so is ponder. The deck is extremely redundant though, so you don't need much filtering (done by arcane denial and thirst as well)

no sol ring or mana vault. Are they needed? (esp. with remora buying you time)

no artifact hate SB. I think the deck already has a fairly nice game against workshop with all the basics, drains and no need to storm.

What do you think about this rather streamlined approach?

(For sure you have noticed the synergies in denial+ 0ccartifacts by now.)

[Seeker]

As said by another fellow, the decks scoops them up against ichorid, although chalice at 1 helps a little, giving you some tiny moment to take infinite turns or whatever without being therapied in you nice little anus. Post SB it gets only slightly better. You haven't got hate, you can just delay them a little via stifles/crypts/dolls and have to hope for a faster
clock.

BTW, I don't really know if key is worth it. I think mystic remora is better on it's own and sick with time vault as well.

You even put them right NEXT to each other. When your ideal plan is to win really really fast, don't you want Voltaic Key to serve as a faux-Tezzeret?

[PETER FLUGZEUG]

feel free to add voltaic key if you want it in!
I don't entirely dismiss it, I'm just not sure if it's worth it.
What would you take out? remora?

(

Also, with key, you probably aim to play a faster version, with black tutors maybe (to find either key or time vault, depending what is missing.) Possibly that's better, but I'm not sure. You might need to cut down on some arcane denials and chalices to do so, changing the CA engine.
Also: if you're playing with key, trinkets would be nice.  ( Chalice also is antisynergistic with key, although key can be discarded to thirst, while remora pitches to force and misd, which isn't really a point in this deck.) The thing I like about this list is that you can lead with chalice 1 consitently.)
In my meta, Ichorid isn't big of an issue anyways.

What do you think?

[Seeker]

Honestly I'd chop the one MisD or maybe even the Scroll (but I'd reaaaaaaaally hesitate to cut the Scroll so almost definitely the MisD) - there's no sense retooling the entire base of the deck, IMO, because what we're doing here is basically collecting ideas.

(Speaking of. Tezzeret. Top. Counterbalance. Trying it now, am liking it less than Back to Basics plus Chrome Mox but more than Chrome Mox in general, which is very weird and Escher of me.)

The Remora COULD be cut but that's just such an insane play in that deck. Honestly, I view Key as just a mise draw. You can still Chalice at one because you don't lose out that much by NOT playing Key, it just gives you that chance to go "oops turn one key turn two vault gee gee" or something similar. And since I have had that draw all of once in testing, it's honestly not THAT frequent. But it's still worth it, in my mind.

[PETER FLUGZEUG]

The misdirection can be cut, sure. It's not crucial, not that versatile neither. But still, do you think key is better than a second remora would be?

[Seeker]

But still, do you think key is better than a second remora would be?

Now that I would have to test. And I will do so in a day or two.

I mean, my testing sucks (because I suck) but it at least gives me a general idea of what feels powerful and weak.

[2ndMain]

This may be a "stupid" question but I'm not too familiar with how Planeswalkers work... do they have summoning sickness?  is that why you have to pass the turn in order to go busted?