[Deck Discussion] GI's (Hadley) Control Tezzeret

[LordHomerCat]

You forgot a couple items

Clique Cons: Does nothing against Combo except sit in your hand while you die; also, is impossible to protect with drain, so when it gets countered (for 3 drain mana no less) you can't defend it any actually have lost something, compared to when TSeize draws out a drain and it's no different than it resolving really, except they get one extra mana.

What matchups does clique improve where Seize/Duress sucked?  I sure can't think of any where I would prefer my duress cost 1UU; in those cases, I would rather cast a card that affects the board like Sower or Trygon Predator.

[vassago]

i actually really like v-clique. i even preimptively picked up foil ones in the thought it would be really good in t1.  however, with that said, i also believe it is absolutely out of place in the tezz deck in question in this thread. i just think with all the cards commonly  seen in this deck style there are just way too many other bomb-esk cards that should be considered before the clique.  for example fof and gifts ungiven seem to be a better card choice in this deck.  and earlier there was the talks of trinket mage for this deck, which is infinately more understandable than clique. 

[bluemage55]

I guess this is an error of logic on your part as far as I'm concerned. Don't get me wrong like I said before I don't support the Clique as a replacement for Duress / Seize but assuming you sit down on a table without knowledge about what your opponent is playing and you start on the play with fetch - Sea can cost you games. If your opponent does run strip / waste, you just screwed yourself out of turn 2 drain mana open regardless of the turn 1 duress / seize effect this risk is just to big and something your don't want to be doing when your main goal is getting UU up.

I'm making that argument as a general point, not for Tez specifically.  I didn't advocate playing Duress in Tez either.  My point, though, was that Duress effects are most valuabe on turn 1, and that in any case, whether or not you should be willing to crack a fetch for U.Sea for turn 1 Duress depends on the circumstances, rather than being an automatic "no".  A number of circumstances, such as being on game 2, having 2 more U sources, having another land + Ancestral, etc., can make that a legitimate play.  It all depends on what's going on.

This is bad if your a control player playing a drain deck.  Your main plan should almost always be getting drain mana up ASAP the rare occasion for this not being the case is not worth taking into account. Also if you've seen some of the opposing cards your probably A) on the draw which doesn't give you that much info unless you just got beat by storm turn 1 or B) your well into turn 2/3 and you already have drain mana up anyway so it doesn't matter if the land gets wasted.

Aside from neglecting that you might be on turn 2, you're forgetting that if your opponent takes a turn to Waste you, that means the speed that you're getting Drain up works out the same if you can make the next 2 land drops (or land + Saphhire, etc.).  So the situations under which you open with Duress do exist.

[Grand Inquisitor]

My point, though, was that Duress effects are most valuabe on turn 1, and that in any case, whether or not you should be willing to crack a fetch for U.Sea for turn 1 Duress depends on the circumstances, rather than being an automatic "no".

This is bad if your a control player playing a drain deck.  Your main plan should almost always be getting drain mana up ASAP

One thing that's important to consider relative to these comments is that mana drain decks, even controlling versions like this one, are fundamentally more aggressive than they used to be (a possible framing point is pre-MDgifts).  This means that the information gained and the pro-active nature of duress effects are more valuable vis-a-vis other potential plays.  There's always the risk of getting your land wasted.  However, you need to start comparing it to the potential to take a leading threat (possibly saving FoW) and avoiding things like stifle.  It's also valid to note that duress effects are certainly more powerful in a world without 4x brainstorm.

It will continue to be a metagame consideration for me whether to opt for duress/thoughtseize vs. something like trinket mage, etc.

[elgoff]

Some lists abroad have used Welder: http://www.morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=949
   I am very intrigued by the use of a couple welder's in this deck.  Returning Vault and Key are obviously very powerful tools, and this is going to be the next thing that I test.  Has anyone had any experience with Welder-ed lists that they can speak to?

Hi everyone! The decklist that you can see in this link was made by two of my teammates (Ugo Rivard & Ian Sauvé Team CRET) from Montreal. Some of you might remember Ugo for stealing the top prices at the SCG: Rochester tourneys (more than once!!!) The first time would be when we quebecers brought to the world the name deck "Bomberman"... But for you to know, Ugo wasn't playing "Bomberman", he was playing CONTROL SLAVER.

He's doing very very well with this deck from there 'till now. Winning a couple of tournament around Quebec, making a lot of top 4/top 8 appearances, Ugo has a certain fervor for the deck!!! Every now and then the decklist of Control Slaver changed a bit but those were minor modification/tweaking from the original decklist. The shell of the deck will never go away... The deck is doing well in the new "Magic" environment (restriction and all new decks) but needed maybe a new twist to be more consistent. When I showed up with Tezzeret at a Poker/Ante night, it all gotten started. We talked for hours about how Wizards could remove/make an errata on Time Vault and releasing Tezzeret at the same time!?!? A one card combo, that pitch to Force of Will and Misdirection. Conclusion, we had to play it.

Ok, now we can go back to that quoted decklist. This isn't a Tezzeret decklist with Welders in it... don't get me wrong... it's a CONTROL SLAVER decklist with Tezzeret combo in it. (!?!?!?!?) Same thing, no! Look alike, yes! The approach is totally different if you're playing Tezz or Slaver... you probably won't make the same decisions from one deck to the other because of the card pool/backup plans you have.

Basically, we took out the combo pieces from Control Slaver and replaces them for Tezzeret combo.

-1 Gift Ungiven
-1 Crucible of Worlds
-1 Seat of Synod

+2 Tezzeret
+1 Time Vault

And that the result is called:
MIND OF THE SEEKER.
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=21363

I tried so hard to make them include 1x Voltaic Key but mission failed.
They told me over and over that the Key IS a dead card in your hand 97% of the time.
So her inclusion would be a card disadvantage and card advantage is probably the Key of this deck!!! (No dead cards in hand)
That's why we play 2x Ancestral Recall (meaning 1x Ancestral Recall main deck and the one in YOUR deck!!)

So that's the idea we had behind our heads when building this deck...

My 2 cents, for now!

[elgoff]

Did you guys notice that this particular deck was "Control Slaver" originally or people just moved the blabla on the other thread!?!?

I would like some feedback!

PS (I couldn't check the premium post...about Tez but I'll do very soon. I just have to wait a bit to get Premium!!)