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Author Topic: [Article And Deck Discussion] Constructing Uw Artifact Agro  (Read 5300 times)
Harlequin
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« on: October 09, 2008, 03:42:21 pm »

Rather than start with a list, I thought for this post (well article at this point).  I would go through the thought-flow of how our team builds new decks. 


If you look at the new Esper creatures from shards of alar, two exsisting decks come to mind: UWb fish, and Shop Agro.  So lets review the new cards in the context of those deck types.  The three creatures we'll focus on are:
Etherium Sculptor - the onesided helm
Ethersworn Canonist - the onesided rule of law
Master of Etherium - the unlimited tarmogoyf + shared triumph

Ethersworn Canonist alone is not that impressive, but his ability can be backbreaking if the deck is built to amplify him.  Many other choices in the deck are made because this guy is so amazing.

Master of Etherium is the win condition.  Coupled with the other 8 artifact creatures AND mishra's factory, this guy can turn a non-clock board into two turn clock.  He really is Tarmogoyf 2.0.  If you don't believe me, have you ever seen a single Tarmogoyf get CHUMPBLOCKED by Greater Gargadon?  Master of Etherium has!  Also in testing, I've used a 8/8 master to stare down a Sundering Titan.  Soon he was a 10/10 and could start swinging.

Ehterium Sculptor makes Ethersworn Canonst the most insane Isamaru ever, and it makes Master of Etherium the most insane Tarmogoyf ever.  He also alows the deck to effortlessly run Thorn, because he makes your non-creature artifacts (mox, relic, top) cost thier normal amounts.  The creature fits the roll of both AEther Vial in WU Fish and Workshop in ShopAgro.

~ Considering Blue White Fish?
- great control and true mana denial
- easy to win if you're winning
-- Has problems with anything bigger than a 2/2, especailly if they come in multiples.

~ Consider Shop Agro?
- Fast, big beats
- doesn't care about creatures (either stomps over them or floods around tinker)
- Runs spheres + Wasteland
-- Has no countermagic, so it spends a few turns with it's pants down
-- Has trouble with mass bounce
-- Manabase dependant, not hitting shop spell doom.

Shops or Force of Will.

We have 12 creatures, Thorn, and at least Recall, Timewalk.  So roughly a 1/3 of the deck is devoted to its colored artifact creatures.  Now we are at a cross roads...  The deck has 12 artifact creatures + thorn.  Shops look good, but if we go with shops, the rest of the deck has to focus on colorfixing and makeing good use of shop mana (so 3+ cc artifact creatures, and sphere).  On the other hand, the deck runs 8 blue creatures which puts us very close to being able to support force of will.

I think ultimatly shops and etherium sculptor are not that synergistic.  Also splitting the deck between cards that need colored mana and cards that need shops (like triskellion) will lead to consistancy problems or loading up the deck with mana-fixers. 

By going force of will we need to balance two ideas: We need good control cards along with draw cards to support force, and we need to be mindful of ethersworn canonist.  If we go overboard on the 'wrong blue' then canonist becomes too symetrical. 

The Solution:
Counterbalance Top.  Basically, the only deck I've played in Legacy for more than two years has been some version of WUx Counterbalance Control (4 etutors wtf?!).  This has given me a fairly strong understanding of counterbalance, including why its main weakness makes it unplayable in vintage.  The main weakness is that when a deck can get several casting costs spells playable in a single turn, they can out menuver your top.  CB-Top is not easy to play.  You want to be agressive, but not fall for bait.  You want to play threats down, but you want to keep top mana and fetches open.  The "balance" part of counterbalance is true to its name.

Canonist and Counterbalance are a perfect match.  Apart they can slow the game, but each card has weaknesses.  Together they are nearly unstopable, because the stregth of one leverages the power of the other and more than compensates for the weakness.

So to our main list we add:
4 Force, 3 CB, 3 Tops, Etutor, and Brainstorm (and lock in the 4 thorns)

This leaves us about 7-8 slots for draw + funnzies, with 22-23 mana sources.

Considerations for the final Slots:

- Unsupported Force of Will.  Running force of will without some sort of hand recouping cards is often means force will be either uncastable or force you into difficult decision (let tinker resolve, or pitch master of etherium?).
 
- Welder.  Welder could cause issues for us.  Welder can be used efficently against us both offensively and defensively

- Ichorid/Dredge/Dragon/Graveyard.dec.  Our maindeck stratigy is built to beat 'normal' decks.  Anything that uses the graveyard as a primary stratigy will likely give us problems

- Oath.  Contrary to popular belief, one of the main weaknesses of Oath is large amounts of big aggro.  This is even worse when that deck packs force.  Because it means oath can't just mull to a first turn oath and throw protection to the wind.  However not acknowledging the exsistance of oath is a good way to eat those words.

- Tinker.  Tinker can definatly ruin our day.  If tinker hits early, and we are not in a possision to race what they get, it can spell the end. 

- Non-basic Hate.  This deck is going to have problems with Waste/Crucible as well as Magus of the Moon if the manabase is not up to the chalange.

- Canonist (an other artifact synergy).  We have to consider canonist in the remaining deck choices.  If we stray too far from the safty of artifacts then we run the risk of having canonist turn our opponents counters into "last word" on our removal/draw.  Also artifacts can be tutored with Etutor, reduced in cost by Sculptor, and pump master.

Filling the Slots:

Indirrect Welder hate "killin 5 Birds with 2 stones".

Right now the deck doesn't care about the graveyard at all.  Any cards in a graveyard, including our own cards are just liabilites.  Tormod's Crypt would be a good choice, but we can one-up crypt: Relic of Progenitus.  It can be used to blow up the underworld against graveyard decks, it can dirrectly counter offensive welds (by targeting yourself, and chosing to remove the card they target), With sculptor is even costs the same!  Worst case we can cycle it. 

The second 'stone' aginst welder is Sword of Fire and Ice.  SOFI gives us a mid-late game draw effect and turns any creature into a monster.  It also gives us game against Welder and Magus of the Moon.

So the first cards we add maindeck are at least: 2 Relic, 2 SOFI

To fill out the rest of deck, let's consider #1 we need more draw effects, and #2 we need more blue cards.  Fortunately blue has plenty of draw.  I really like Ninja of Deep Hours for this slot.  Its blue and draws cards for force support, Its a creature who can hold equipment, AND it doesn't interact with Canonist.  To me, the inclusion of ninja is the deciding factor to run Mishras Factory.  Again, increasing the creature count, and getting a solid way to put Ninja down.  With factories in the deck, the land count should really be 23 (with 3 off color mox, sol, possibly crypt, and 3 factories you're sitting around 15 U/W sources).

The last Card...

With 23 Mana, 12 core creatures, 18 core spells, 6 relic/sofi/ninja That leaves us a single slot in the deck.  The wildcard!  Simple choices would include an extra Land, CB, Relic, Sofi, or Ninja.  All fine choices.

Here is a fairly long list of cards that were considered for longer than 3 seconds...

AEtherspellbomb - answer to tinker, and big dudes
Echoing Truth - again, an answer to things.  Less synergistic than AEsb but more versitile. untutorable.
Forcefield - the card I ultimately went with and regreted... good against oath (which I thought would be bigger) and Tinker. 
Memory Jar (wo tinker) - not that good
Timetwister - not sure if this is better or worse than Jar
Mizzium Transloquator - combo off thier timevault, also is Master of Etherium #5, or an extra swords or thorn...
Copy Artifact or Sculpting Steal - Same as above, but is cheaper to maintain and doesn't have timevault tricks
Trinisphere - Hey, its a restricted artifact... can't be bad right?  Seem very dis-synergistic with the entire deck though
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV - Suprizingly synergistic with the entire deck.  Not that easy to cast.
Thruming Stone - Again, not as bad as you might think.  If you've never played around with Top-Thruming stone, you would likely just dismiss this
Mask of Memory - cheap equipment for digging.
Tinker (alone) - Really not that impressive without a monster...
March of the Machines or Karn - Onesided moxen killing is neat, But both are expensive to cast

Other 3 card ideas (where you would cut a 2-of Ninja/Relic/SoFI)
Tinker, Jar, Titan - All those are usually good
Timevault, Key, Trinketmage/Key2 - Adds a combo finish
Thruming Stone, Top#4, Brainfreeze - With a 1-sided helm on your side, going infinite storm wouldn't be too tough.  Either Stone or Brainfreeze will allow you to quickly win the game with Sculptor in play.
Meddling Mage x3 - I have these in the board... but I could see them preboarded for game 1 (perhapse in place of the relics).

===============================

The sideboard:

2 Relic (going to 4 total).  Relic is amazing post board against Ichorid/graveyard.dec AND slaver.
3 Seal of Cleansing
2 Dispellers Capsule -- I think have 5 anti-eflux cards is a minimum requirement.  They can also answer tinker, oath, and come in agianst shop-anything
3-4 Meddling Mage - Eflux, and Hurkyls are REALLY nasty post board.  Shatteringspree ain't no picknick either.  There are just so many cards to hose you post board.
3-4 Hanna's Custody - With SO much targeted removal for timevault out there right now, I REALLY regret not thinking of this card before I played the deck.  As a bonus it stops Welder AND any Timevault combos.  It shuts off your equipment though.
... thats 15 assuming you go with 4 Meddling mage, and 4 Hanna's.  So you could have 1-2 slots to include any cards that didn't make the main.   Also running a land in the board isn't a terrible Idea.  I would probably run 2 maindeck basics with a tundra in the board (because white maindeck isn't as important as it is post-board).

Locking in The Mana Base:

23 cards slots for mana. 

3 Factories
6 Mox5 + lotus
5 Fetches
5 Tundra + Islands (either 3:2 or 4:1)
1 Tolarian Acad

3 Bonus Slots

I'm happy with the choices I made: Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Tolaria West.  Of the 3 cards, I think Sol Ring is probably the most contraversial.  Tolaria West is actually great in this deck.  Its either a sub-par blue source if you are blue-starved, or more commonly its an uncounterable blue seathing song that stays in play, which is you know... amazing!

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I hope you enjoyed a look into the construction of this deck.  Id be happy to answer any questions, or respond to any critisism of the deck.

- Harlequin
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« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2008, 08:06:28 pm »

I've found you need more guys and equipment to make Master as big as you want him as early as you want.  Ninja is nice, particularly being blue, but he doesn't pump Master.  More equipment also makes every single guy you draw almost as good as Master.  Only 2 Swords is really low to me.  I guess it depends on if you want to build a really fast aggro deck, or an aggro-controllish deck like you appear to be.
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« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2008, 12:26:10 am »

i like this built. but i want null rod on this deck.
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« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2008, 05:54:22 am »

I really like your deck designs, very innovative!

A few things that I noticed while testing your list:

- Ninja is good on paper, but in actual game-play he was mostly used as pitch-fodder to Force. I found it too slow and not so synergistic with the deck.

- You have a big glut at the 2-mana slot, especially with Ninja.

- There is no strong turn 1 play, often you lay a land and say go. This makes you really reliant on having an accelerator in the starting hand.
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« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2008, 02:20:09 pm »

While playtesting this deck I found opposing Wastelands and/or Gorilla Shamans VERY annoying. I see you have covered this weakness a bit with advising to play the 2nd basic, but all your moxen/crypt/ring getting eaten is very problematic.

Edit 1: Also Null Rod is not the card you want to see on the other side of the table. It shuts down equipments/tops/moxen and relics, turning at least 15 cards of your deck into crap. Therefor I think Disenchant/Seal #4 would be better in the board over the Capsules. They don't pump your Master, but Capsule didn't benefit from Sculptor anyway(except when there's thorn/sphere out) and they cost 2 less in total.

Edit 2: Do you think Leonin Abunas can compete with Hanna's Custody in the sideboard? It doesn't shut down the opposing Vault combo, but it has a 2/5 body and doesn't get hit by your own Thorns.

Edit 3: Are you willing to do some matchup analysis?

Over all.. nice deck!
« Last Edit: October 10, 2008, 02:36:35 pm by Duncan » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2008, 04:16:18 pm »

I piloted this deck to a top 8 finish in a 50-person tournament in the Netherlands yesterday. Let me start with my list first:
Quote from: Duncan
3   Flooded Strand   
2   Polluted Delta   
2   Island   
3   Tundra   
3   Mishra's Factory   
1   Black Lotus   
1   Mox Jet   
1   Mox Pearl   
1   Mox Sapphire   
1   Mox Emerald   
1   Mox Ruby   
1   Mana Crypt   
1   Sol Ring   
1   Tolaria West   
4   Etherium Sculptor   
4   Master of Etherium   
4   Ethersworn Cannonist   
2   Ninja of the Deep Hours   
4   Force of Will   
4   Thorn of Amethyst   
3   Counterbalance   
3   Sensei's Divining Top   
2   Sword of Fire and Ice   
2   Relic of Progenitus   
1   Enlightened Tutor   
1   Time Walk   
1   Brainstorm   
1   Ancestral Recall   
1   Tolarian Academy   
1   Engineered Explosives   

Sideboard
3   Leonin Abunas   
2   Relic of Progenitus   
4   Meddling Mage   
1   Tundra   
3   Seal of Cleansing   

I chose Engineered Explosives for the last free slot and it was definitely good. It gets rid of Oath, Chalice and EtW/Zombie tokens and you can tutor it up with both Enl. Tutor and Tolaria West. It is a versatile tutorable maindeck solution to a lot of resolved things.

I used the sideboard Harlequin suggested (except for Abunas instead of Custody). Meddling Mages were solid, just like the extra land in the sideboard vs. stax (and thus the extra basic in the main). I never boarded in Abunas (I ran them over custody because the local seller didnt bring his tempest binder). I still believe he is better against fish, but I didnt face that deck yesterday. However I believe that defensive sideboarding isn't the way to go. I will test 3 Pithing Needles in this slot. That improves the Ichorid matchup and several others naming Tezzeret, Grindstone, Wasteland, Welder.

My tournament went like this:
Round 1: Oath 2-0
Round 2: MUD 1-1 (i was losing when time was called and managed to stay alive in the extra turns)
Round 3: Ichorid 2-0
Round 4: MUD 2-0
Round 5: Drain Tendrils 1-1 (we finished g2 when there were 5 minutes left and decided not to start g3)
Round 6: Painter 2-1 (CounterTop really shined in this match)

Top 8: Aggro MUD 0-2

So didn't lose a match in the Swiss, but got knocked out in t8. We had a random pairing in the t8 (don't know if that's normal these days?) and I think I would've gotten further wouldn't I have been paired against MUD (the t8 was: me, MUD x2, BUG Fish, Slaver, Drain Tendrils, Goblins and Ichorid I think).

I might write a more detailed report if I have time this week. The deck is a solid contender in the current metagame, but workshops aren't the best matchup. Thorn, Canonist and CounterTop are quite useless and chalice@2 can really hurt. The aggro versions have large men on top of that and the pro-blue part of Sword of Fire and Ice makes their men nearly unblockable.

Edit: I would also replace one of the sideboard Relics with a Tormod's Crypt. That way you can tutor a Graveyard Removal card with Tolaria West.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2008, 11:55:12 am by Duncan » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2008, 03:59:32 pm »

Has anyone had any issues with casting counterbalance under thorn or are you ever torn between dropping counterbalance or a threat?
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« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2008, 07:28:52 am »

- Ninja is good on paper, but in actual game-play he was mostly used as pitch-fodder to Force. I found it too slow and not so synergistic with the deck.

I have the same feeling. In the 10 games or so I played I only put the Ninja into play once. For the rest it was used as pitch-fodder. The only creatures you want to Ninjutsu with are Factorys and Sculptor (if the game has gone long enough to make its ability less needed). I can't imagine a lot of situations in wich I would Ninjutsu out Canonist or Master just to draw a card. How about replacing Ninja with something like Fabricate or Thoughtcast? Fabricate tutors for those 2-of artifacts you play (Sword and Relic) or an extra Master or Canonist. It's also another shuffle effect for Top. Thoughtcast would almost always be a draw 2 for U in this deck.
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« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2008, 11:50:38 am »

What about trinket mage? He fetches Top, Mana, or Relic. And eventhough he isn't an artifact himself, since he fetches one, he will make Master bigger.
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« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2008, 01:20:40 pm »

After playing around with the deck, I really wanted more card-draw. Since there are already a lot of artifacts, Thoughtcast seems like the perfect fit.
My list:


4 Etherium Sculptor
4 Master of Etherium
4 Ethersworn Canonist

4 Force of Will
4 Thorn of Amethyst

2 Counterbalance
2 Sensei's Divining Top

2 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Aether Spellbomb

4 Thoughtcast
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall

3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Island
3 Tundra
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Tolarian Academy

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring


Thoughtcast has been very good so far, preventing you from running out of gas in the late game. As an additional bonus, you can randomly counter an opponents Force when you reveal Thoughtcast to Counterbalance.
I cut Tolaria West, because it was too slow and I rarely wanted to tutor for mana. I added another Fetch so I have better access to my coloured sources.
I also had trouble with a resolved DSC or fattie, hence I added the Aether Spellbomb.

Let me know what you think of these changes.
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« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2008, 01:33:09 pm »

Thoughtcast seems like a good fit for the deck. Pitchable to Force and U for 2 cards ain't that bad. However, I am not a fan of cutting the 3rd top. Top has always been absolute gold for me when I cast it. I can see going down to 2 Counterbalance, but the 3rd top is a must I say.

Tolaria West is cute, and tutoring for the added Explosives is ok, but I also have never tutored for mana. When you are able to you already have 1UU at your disposal so you can cast almost anything you want. Tutoring for factory #2 or #3 has been good times.
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« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2008, 03:05:09 pm »

Yeah, the third Top was the hardest cut to fit in the Thoughtcasts. What card would you cut for the third Top?
I'm debating between Sol Ring, the fourth Thoughtcast, Spellbomb or Explosives. Probably Sol Ring.
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« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2008, 07:12:16 am »

I just realised that Thoughtcast has terrible dissynergy with Canonist. Being a non-artifact sorcery opens a window for your opponent to remove him. Ninja circumveils this. Have you ever encountered this problem?
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« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2008, 07:35:05 pm »

If you guys want here's my version of the deck but a Workshop list w/o FOW I've been working on:



1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sphere Of Resistance
4 Thorn Of Amethyst
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mindlock Orb
1 Trinisphere

4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Master of Etherium
3 Aven Mindcensor
1 Karn, Silver Golem

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Tinker

Lands
4 Tundra
4 Adarkar Wastes
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Wasteland
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Strip Mine

SB:
4 Seal of Cleansing 
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Razormane Masticore
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Balance


I am going to play this list in a couple weeks for a Lotus. I'll post a report after the tourney. Hope you guys enjoy.
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« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2008, 01:43:59 am »

I was able to land a top 8 finish yesterday with UW Artifact aggro unpowered. I will post my decklist this week along with a quick report. I do need to make some changes though. Mine was more on the aggro side though as it had Frogmites and Myr Enforcers and they were fine as they went for the beatdown all day. My only losses during the Swiss came from Stax (Welder for the win) and to Red Workshop aggro. Then I got kicked out of the top 8 versus the same deck that Harlequin lost to, Tezzeret. I was so unfamiliar with the matchup.


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