Noble Fish: GUW variants here!

[Delha]

Wheel does target, btw. You are correct that LoSanctity blocks it.

[Jesse²]

[Main deck]60
4 Qasali pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Noble hierarch   
3 Trygon predator
3 Meddling mage   
1 Ancestral recall   
1 Mystical tutor
1 Brain storm   
3 Daze   
3 Spell pierce   
4 Force of will
2 Path to exile
1 Swords to plowshares
1 Time walk
1 Black lotus
1 Mox emerald
1 Mox pearl
1 Mox sapphire
3 Null rod
2 Flooded strand
4 Misty rainforest
3 Tropical island
3 Tundra
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Strip mine
4 Wasteland
[Side-board] 15
4 Leyline of sanctity
2 Sower of temptation
2 Nature's claim
2 Kataki, war's wage
3 Relic of progenitus
1 Hurkyl's recall
1 Rebuild

I have put a lot of thought and took a lot of advice to make this list, I still need to put in 1 basic plains(main) because as you know shops is the most played deck in t1 atm, the problem is I am unsure of what to replace with the plains. Any advice is much appreciated but please don't make a suggestion without reasoning behind it.

[MagicMan]

you could go to 3 wastes to add the plains

[RecklessEmbermage]

If you are otherwise happy with the deck and certain you want one basic of each type, the least radical change you could make is -1 tundra -1 tropical +1 plains +1 flooded strand. That puts you at -1 blue source, +1 white source and even on green.

[Jesse²]

Whats everyone's opinion on taking out all the goyfs for 2 true believers and 2 kataki's main and replace the katakis in the sb with teegs?

1 goyf for 1 more meddling mage?

Yes, this does sound crazy but there have been more times where I need resilience more than a beater.

as for the land i just took out 1 tundra, works very well as far as the mana curve goes.

[Stormanimagus]

Whats everyone's opinion on taking out all the goyfs for 2 true believers and 2 kataki's main and replace the katakis in the sb with teegs?

1 goyf for 1 more meddling mage?

Yes, this does sound crazy but there have been more times where I need resilience more than a beater.

as for the land i just took out 1 tundra, works very well as far as the mana curve goes.

Teeg makes 0 sense with Force Of Will and this deck should be running 4 Force Of Will. I think the future of this deck might lie in Green Sun's Zenith with a toolbox approach and possibly Natural Order and Progenitus. That would be a new and exciting direction to take this style of deck for sure.

[nogz]

Whats everyone's opinion on taking out all the goyfs for 2 true believers and 2 kataki's main and replace the katakis in the sb with teegs?

1 goyf for 1 more meddling mage?

Yes, this does sound crazy but there have been more times where I need resilience more than a beater.

as for the land i just took out 1 tundra, works very well as far as the mana curve goes.

Teeg makes 0 sense with Force Of Will and this deck should be running 4 Force Of Will. I think the future of this deck might lie in Green Sun's Zenith with a toolbox approach and possibly Natural Order and Progenitus. That would be a new and exciting direction to take this style of deck for sure.

i'm actually thinking of how to fit in the GSZ in this deck because GSZ is a nice tutor into play creatures. like you can tutor for qasali or trygon into play. another thing is,are we really going to cut cold-eye selkie? or maybe run 2 copies in the deck for blue matchups? although i admit,sometimes i want to cut selkie out the deck since the meta where i'm playing is mostly aggro-shops and ichorid. any suggestions on what to put replace selkie with?

[Stormanimagus]

Whats everyone's opinion on taking out all the goyfs for 2 true believers and 2 kataki's main and replace the katakis in the sb with teegs?

1 goyf for 1 more meddling mage?

Yes, this does sound crazy but there have been more times where I need resilience more than a beater.

as for the land i just took out 1 tundra, works very well as far as the mana curve goes.

Teeg makes 0 sense with Force Of Will and this deck should be running 4 Force Of Will. I think the future of this deck might lie in Green Sun's Zenith with a toolbox approach and possibly Natural Order and Progenitus. That would be a new and exciting direction to take this style of deck for sure.

i'm actually thinking of how to fit in the GSZ in this deck because GSZ is a nice tutor into play creatures. like you can tutor for qasali or trygon into play. another thing is,are we really going to cut cold-eye selkie? or maybe run 2 copies in the deck for blue matchups? although i admit,sometimes i want to cut selkie out the deck since the meta where i'm playing is mostly aggro-shops and ichorid. any suggestions on what to put replace selkie with?

I think Green Sun's Zenith actually allows you to bring back the Selkie. You only ever want 1 out anyway and Zenith Tutors for him into play for 3G. 3G should not be as hard to get vs. a deck that runs 0 mana denial (Big Blue, Gush-Bond, TPS). Here, I'll post my updated list and explain some of the choices:


Noble Fish

Land (19):
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

Artifacts (7):
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
4 Null Rod

Creatures (17):
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Meddling Mage
2 Tarmogoyf
2 Trygon Predator
1 Cold-Eyed Selkie

Instants (13):
4 Force Of Will
4 Steel Sabotage
4 Daze
1 Ancestral Recall

Sorceries (4):
1 Time Walk
2 Green Sun’s Zenith

Sideboard
4 Leyline Of Sanctity
4 Ravenous Trap
2 Relic Of Progenitus
2 Trygon Predator
3 Path To Exile

4 Steel Sabotage — Hugely underrated card. Gets you the tempo you need to get Trygon online vs. Shops. Answers BSC, DSC, and Sphinx. Inkwell is obviously still a problem, but I'd rather try the racing plan than anything else vs. Inky.

2 Green Sun's Zenith — The reason I don't run 3 or 4 is that you are not a combo deck that needs to see Zenith right away and it shuffles back. 2 seems the right number for a deck like this one.

4 Daze — Some may say 3 is the right number. I believe they would be wrong. Daze is the bread and butter of this deck and I can't imagine why I ever thought to cut Daze for Spell Pierce.

1 Selkie — We can bring back the Selkie as a tutor target now that we have Zenith!!

2 Goyf — 2 seems correct when you have access to Zenith. In the match-ups where you want him most (Fish, Tempo Blue) you should be able to hit the 2G you need for him easily. Many people say that he's the stones vs. Shops and I 100% disagree. The only permanent type they might provide you with in the yard is land and MAYBE artifact (if they lose one). Too often I've played against shops and seen my Goyf sit there as a lowly 2/3 while I got pounded by a 5/3. Thing is, even as a 4/5 he is often not good enough vs. Shops as they'll just trade and drop another fattie.

4 Null Rod — Decks play around Null Rod a lot these days, but I still think it works well for this style of deck. Even though decks have been designed to play around the rod I think many of them are lax in their slots devoted to it or devoted to playing around it.

2 Trygon Predator — This should perhaps be 3 MD but I can't seem to find the room. Hopefully 4 Steel Sabotage will pick up the slack.

SB

4 Leyline Of Sanctity — Best Storm hate I know of. And this deck IS weak to Storm game 1 no matter what anyone says. Also solid answer to Oath.
4 Ravnous Trap — All you need vs. Dredge is a speed bump or 2 to get the Goyf beats going. This is a really good one that costs you 0.
2 Relic Of Progenitus — Seems bad with Goyf, but cantrips and cannot be stopped by as many types of hate.
2 Trygon Predator — Vs. MUD you need all 4 post SB. I suppose these could be Serenity, but I've never really liked that card much because you have to wait a turn.
3 Path To Exile — Mirror and vs. Other Beats and possible versions of MUD where Rod is bad to keep in (non-Metalworker mostly)

Anyway, feedback is welcome!

[nogz]

Hello storm! I tried your list and made a few changes since the ones I playtested with are mono blue tezz decks. These were the changes : -4 steel sabotage, -4 meddling mage, -1 null rod,-1 wasteland. +1 natural order, +1 progenitus, +2 jace the mind sculptor, +1 mystical tutor,+1 brainstorm,+3 spell pierce,+1 plains. It kinda wemt well actually. Green sun zenith is the nuts here. Will post again next time after I try with aggro-shops and dredge.

[dskippy]

Hey everyone. I just started playing this deck. I made a list for myself of all of the creatures that have been mentioned in this thread so that I could have a quick guide for decisions. Here's the list. The ones with numbers are listed based on how often they were played in a tournament that Storm posted about.

Creatures played in the tournament posted by Storm, ordered by frequency of play:

96 Noble Hierarch, G, 0/1, T: add W,U,G
75 Qasali Pridemage, WG, 2/2, 1 sac: disenchant
73 Cold-Eyed Selkie, 1{U/G}{U/G}, 1/1, on combat draw cards equal to the damage
68 Meddling Mage, WU, 2/2, named card cannot be played
64 Tarmogoyf, 1G, */1+*, power toughness equal to card types in graveyards
42 Trygon Predator, 1UG, 2/3, on combat damage, disenchant
13 Cursecatcher, U, 1/1, sac: forcespike an instant or sorcery
10 Vendilion Clique, 1UU, 3/1, flash, flying, card in opponents hand back to library and they draw
8 Ninja Of The Deep Hours, 3U, 2/2, ninjutsu 1U, on combat damage draw a card
7 Aven Mindcensor, 2W, 2/1, flash, flying, players search their top four cards, not libraries
3 Kataki, War's Wage, 1W, 2/1, artifacts gain upkeep 1
3 Gaddock Teeg, GW, 2/2, spells with CMC >= 4 can't be cast
2 Knight Of The Reliquary, 1WG, 2/2, +1/+1 for lands in your graveyard, T sac forest or plains, crop rotaition
2 Vexing Shusher, {G/R}{G/R}, 2/2, uncounterable, {G/R}: target creature is uncounterable
2 Elvish Spirit Guide, 2G, 2/2, pitch for G

Creatures not played in that one tournament, but none the less, mentioned in this thread:

Cephalid Constable, 1UU, 1/1, on combat damage, bounce that many permanents
Ronom Unicorn, 1W, 2/2, sac: destroy enchantment
Glowrider, 2W, 2/1, noncreature spells cost 1 more
River Boa, 1G, 2/1, islandwalk, G: regenerate
Augury Adept, 1{U/W}{U/W}, 2/2, on combat damage, reveal top card, gain CMC life, draw it
Rafiq of the Many, 1WUG, 3/3, exalted, creatures attacking alone get double strike
Ethersworn Canonist, 1W, 2/2, players can play only one nonartifact spell a turn
Kataki, War's Wage, 1W, 2/1, artifacts have upkeep of 1
Windborn Muse, 3W, 2/3, flying, must pay 3 for each creature attacking you.
Rootwater Thief, 1U, 1/2, U: flying, 2: after combat damage, exile on card in library
Erayo, Soratami Ascendant, 1U, 1/1, flips to counter the first spell of a turn
Azorius Guildmage, {U/W}{U/W}, 2/2, 2W: tap creature, 2U: counter activation
Esperzoa, 2U, 4/3, flying, upkeep: bounce an artifact you control
Sower of Temptation, 2UU, 2/2, flying, control magic while he's in play
Children of Korlis, W, 1/1, sac to gain life you lost this turn. hates tendrils
Sage of Epityr, U, 1/1, reorder your top three cards
Voidmage Prodigy, UU, 2/1, UU sac wizard to counter a spell
Thada Adel, Acquisitor, 1UU, 2/2, islandwalk, on combat search opponent's library for artifact and play it

My own additions that I've thought about. Though they haven't been mentioned in this thread yet, so they're likely terrible:

Eternal Witness, 1GG, 2/1, regrowth when enters battlefield
Neurok Transmuter, 2U, 2/2 Turns things into artifacts to combo with Predator, Qasali, and Null Rod
Patron Wizard, UUU, 2/2, tap a wizard to force spike
Giltspire Avenger, WUG, 2/2, exalted, destroys creatures that deal you damage.
Goldmeadow Harrier, W, 1/1, WT: tap target creature.

-mike

[LSD25]

i've been testing this build, taylored against gushstorm, turbo tezz and mud, but i now have horrble matchups against any creature deck, such as noble fish, vial variants and goblins.

i dont think noble fish can deal with goblins at all, but other decks in the field should be able to combo out before goblins win, but i am worried about other fish decks (primarilly bw and bant) that make it to top 8.

any thoughts?

[serracollector]

In the list mentioned above there is also:

Sea Singer
Preacher

both of which should be played along side or over Sower, depending on the field.  Managing to get  a Preacher in vs MUD, or a Seasinger vs the Mirror is golden.

My personal build uses Skullclamp and a few jewlery over Null Rod, and Preacher + Clamp in todays meta of Gorillas, Welders, Confidants, Selkies, Hierarchs, etc. etc. is a nice way to 3 for 1 your opp.

[dskippy]

I am playing in a creature-heavy meta. I see a lot of following:

Exalted Angel
Augury Adept
Lodestone Golem
Juggernaut
Sundering Titan
Nullstone Gargoyle
Platinum Emperion

And am pretty sure I can expect to see plenty of this:
Platinum Angel
Darksteel Colossus
Inkwell Leviathan
Sphinx of the Steel Wind

I am looking for cards to improve my match up with them. This essentially amounts to improving one's match up against Oath, I suppose. Regardless of whether or not those creatures are coming from Oath I think many of the same cards that deal with these creatures will improve the match up with Oath.

Here are the cards I'm considering:

Ensnaring Bridge: This one is great. It's 3cc, so a little slow. It handles not dying to all of the above mentioned critters. It does not handle the problem of getting your guys through, but Selkie's islandwalk and Predator's flying might be able to make up for this.

Goldmeadow Harrier: Also very promising. It fills out the 1-drop slot which often only contains Hierarch and the 1cc is reserved for Stifle and sometimes Spell Pierce, which I'm not running. This creature allows for my critters to get through as well as keeping 1 attacker at bay. It does not answer Inkwell, however, which is a big problem. It's an attacker itself.

Swords to Plowshares: Classic and simple. This has the benefit of handling Goblin Welders, Dark Confidents and other threats that don't really attack to cause you pain. Doesn't handle Inkwell like the Bridge does. Not a creature so won't attack.

Tariff: Doesn't allow for a choice, but gets Inkwell. Costs more than StP. Not a creature so won't attack.

Azurious Guildmage: A bit on the expensive side compared to Goldmeadow. Can, unlikely, tap two critters. Has the extra benefit of being able to counter activated abilities. It's an attack itself.

Sea Singer/Preacher: Stealing the creatures is an interesting point raised by serracollector. This handles critters like Welder and Dark Confidant as well as. Does not work against Inkwell.

Rune Halo: Protection for one card is very interesting. This could give all sorts of decks like Tendrills a problem as well. It only protects against that one creature that's out, unlike ensnaring bridge which can keep all creatures away. It's hard to get rid of though, being an enchantment rather than an artifact.

Thoughts?

-mike

[RecklessEmbermage]

I am playing in a creature-heavy meta. I see a lot of following:

Exalted Angel
Augury Adept
Lodestone Golem
Juggernaut
Sundering Titan
Nullstone Gargoyle
Platinum Emperion

And am pretty sure I can expect to see plenty of this:
Platinum Angel
Darksteel Colossus
Inkwell Leviathan
Sphinx of the Steel Wind

I am looking for cards to improve my match up with them. This essentially amounts to improving one's match up against Oath, I suppose. Regardless of whether or not those creatures are coming from Oath I think many of the same cards that deal with these creatures will improve the match up with Oath.

Here are the cards I'm considering:

Ensnaring Bridge: This one is great. It's 3cc, so a little slow. It handles not dying to all of the above mentioned critters. It does not handle the problem of getting your guys through, but Selkie's islandwalk and Predator's flying might be able to make up for this.

Goldmeadow Harrier: Also very promising. It fills out the 1-drop slot which often only contains Hierarch and the 1cc is reserved for Stifle and sometimes Spell Pierce, which I'm not running. This creature allows for my critters to get through as well as keeping 1 attacker at bay. It does not answer Inkwell, however, which is a big problem. It's an attacker itself.

Swords to Plowshares: Classic and simple. This has the benefit of handling Goblin Welders, Dark Confidents and other threats that don't really attack to cause you pain. Doesn't handle Inkwell like the Bridge does. Not a creature so won't attack.

Tariff: Doesn't allow for a choice, but gets Inkwell. Costs more than StP. Not a creature so won't attack.

Azurious Guildmage: A bit on the expensive side compared to Goldmeadow. Can, unlikely, tap two critters. Has the extra benefit of being able to counter activated abilities. It's an attack itself.

Sea Singer/Preacher: Stealing the creatures is an interesting point raised by serracollector. This handles critters like Welder and Dark Confidant as well as. Does not work against Inkwell.

Rune Halo: Protection for one card is very interesting. This could give all sorts of decks like Tendrills a problem as well. It only protects against that one creature that's out, unlike ensnaring bridge which can keep all creatures away. It's hard to get rid of though, being an enchantment rather than an artifact.

Thoughts?

-mike

For battling oath and shops, you may want to start with four each of qasali pridemage and leonin relic warder. They keep pressure up, being creatures, and are relevant in most match-ups.

It would help to have a look at your current list.

[psyburat]

I've decided to pick up this deck again after countless failures with Workshop variants (almost to the point where I'm ready to unload my Workshops).  Since the next relevant tournament is post-NPH, we've begun testing with the new stuff.  Here's what I'm testing with this week:

MD:
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Meddling Mage
3 Trygon Predator
2 Cold-Eyed Selkie

4 Force of Will
4 Null Rod
3 Daze
3 Path to Exile
2 Mental Misstep
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk

4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
3 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
1 Black Lotus
1 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Savannah
1 Strip Mine

SB:
3 Children of Korlis
3 Pithing Needle
2 Energy Flux
2 Nature's Claim
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Mental Misstep
1 Path to Exile
1 Trygon Predator

I must say, I'm not used to Selkie, as most of my success with the deck has come with Vendilion Clique in that spot.  However, there is enough blue floating around Blue Bell these days that he seems much better at the moment, and the printing of Misstep is going to only make him better.  If the overall deck structure seems weird, it's because I was recently testing Knight of the Reliquary over Tarmogoyf and Bojuka Bog over Island and Tormod's Crypt.  It ended up being way too slow for this format, though, and so I made swaps rather than restructuring the entire deck.  Because of Misstep I feel Spell Pierce is a liability during this time, since it often ruins the natural curve and will face a new set of free counters.  I can see Meddling Mage #4 being better than Tarmogoyf #4, but testing will show the merits of that change.

[nogz]

Hello guys! I'm planning on running this build without mox and lotus. Feel free to comment on it. Thanks.

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Trygon Predator
3 Lotus Cobra
2 Cold-eyed Selkie
1 Gilded Drake

4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
3 Daze
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Time Walk
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Tariff
1 Life from the Loam

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Null Rod

3 Misty Rainforest
3 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Forest

SB :
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Sower of Temptation ---> planning to replace this with 2 more nature's claim
2 Nature's Claim
3 Swords to Plowshares

[psyburat]

3 Misty Rainforest
3 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
1 Forest

I see a fundamental error in your manabase:  -1 Flooded Strand +1 Misty Rainforest.  Your build is otherwise very different than the style I go for when I play (one-of heavy, higher curve), so I don't have any other feedback otherwise.

[policehq]

3 Misty Rainforest
3 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
1 Forest

I see a fundamental error in your manabase:  -1 Flooded Strand +1 Misty Rainforest.  Your build is otherwise very different than the style I go for when I play (one-of heavy, higher curve), so I don't have any other feedback otherwise.

Or, without basic Islands, he could play Windswept Heath.

[psyburat]

3 Misty Rainforest
3 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
1 Forest

I see a fundamental error in your manabase:  -1 Flooded Strand +1 Misty Rainforest.  Your build is otherwise very different than the style I go for when I play (one-of heavy, higher curve), so I don't have any other feedback otherwise.

Or, without basic Islands, he could play Windswept Heath.

True.  I forgot to add that you probably want a basic Island too.  If you don't do that, though, then definitely swap Flooded Strand for Windswept Heath.

[psyburat]

With a combined swiss record of 10-1-1 with a Top 8 and Top 4 in two tournaments, this is what I've been rather successful with recently:

MD:
4 Meddling Mage
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Trygon Predator

4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Null Rod
3 Mental Misstep

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk

4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
1 Black Lotus
1 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Strip Mine

SB:
4 Nature's Claim
4 Path to Exile
4 Ravenous Trap
3 Trygon Predator

Boarding strategy:
-4 Probe -X Whatever +(X+4) Better Whatever.  I really haven't gotten it down to an art, but I did make sure to board my Ravenous Traps in against Dredge, since I only got to play those jerks once and was damn well going to use my otherwise worthless Traps.

Terrible report of my second excursion with this 75 is here: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=42547.0

The deck needs to be painfully simple again.  Everyone's waltzing in with their 2-ofs and 3-ofs, and honestly the deck just doesn't want to be that tricky.  I thought about being "that guy" even and running the 61st card of the 4th Mental Misstep, but then I wouldn't be able to do a straight swap for Trygons against MUD.

The only real feedback I'd like is on the Nature's Claim vs. Oxidize debate.  Otherwise I'm just trying to generate discussion and get people to play this stupid thing again.

[nogz]

Hello! I'm currently trying this list.
Maindeck :
4 noble hierarch
3 qasali pridemage
3 edric,spymaster of trest
3 lotus cobra
2 trygon predator
2 leonin relic warder
1 gilded drake
4 force of will
3 daze
3 spell pierce
1 ancestral recall
1 time walk
1 mystical tutor
1 echoing truth
1 tariff
1 mindbreak trap
1 life from the loam
2 jace, the mind sculptor
4 null rod
4 wasteland
1 strip mine
3 misty rainforest
2 flooded strand
3 tropical island
2 tundra
2 savannah
1 island
1 forest
Sideboard :
3 pithing needle
3 surgical extraction
2 relic of progenitus / tormod's crypt
3 steel sabotage
3 path to exile
1 mindbreak trap

Edric fits perfectly in the deck,replacing selkie. Although only darkblast is taken out as an option of removal because of its a 2/2 body. Another good thing that I find with running edric is that you can aggro out. Since I'm a creature based. Anyway, thoughts, comments or other suggestions would be appriciated. Thanks.

[TheWhiteDragon]

Here's my noble fish list:


// Lands
    2  Windswept Heath
    3  Wasteland
    1  Tropical Island
    1  Tundra
    1  Strip Mine
    2  Misty Rainforest
    1  Island
    1  Forest
    1 [ARE] Plains (8)
    2  Savannah

// Creatures
    4 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
    4  Noble Hierarch
    2  Phyrexian Revoker
    2  Trygon Predator
    3  Gaddock Teeg
    1 [ARB] Sphinx of the Steel Wind
    2 [COM] Edric, Spymaster of Trest
    2  Leonin Relic-Warder

// Spells
    1  Mystical Tutor
    1  Tinker
    4  Daze
    1  Mox Sapphire
    2  AEther Vial
    4  Force of Will
    1  Ancestral Recall
    1  Mox Emerald
    1  Mox Pearl
    1  Black Lotus
    1  Echoing Truth
    1  Swords to Plowshares
    4  Null Rod

// Sideboard
SB: 1  Phyrexian revoker
SB: 1  Trygon Predator
SB: 1  Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3  True Believer
SB: 1  Swords to Plowshares
SB: 1  Nature's Claim
SB: 4 [ARB] Meddling Mage
SB: 1  Path to Exile
SB: 2 [COM] Scavenging Ooze

It's probably close to several lists, though I haven't seen an identical one here.

First - no tarmgoyf.  he's vanilla and sucks.  If you want fat, you get tinker -> sphinx.

Revoker - the awesome with null rod to just shut down most anything.

Edrick - hotsauce on a chile pepper.  He makes selkie look like a memnite.  All my bitches get curiosity.

Null Rod + vial.  Vial is good, but only great vs blue.  Rod is good vs everything.  The 2/4 split is ideal.

The deck is all 2/2s.  Every card deals with artifacts/enchantments.  E-truth/plow can deal with tinkerbot, and sphinx deals with any big fat.  Storm gets hit hard with believer, gaddock, or rod.  Dredge has to get through 4 waste/strip and 4 ooze after sb.  Sphinx and etruth help too.  It has an all around solid game vs everything.  The sb adds nice answers to anything tough.  Daze is the bee's knees.  I love that card in anything with islands.  Comments?  Questions?

The whole deck is 2/2s basically.

*edit* - I added 2 oozes main and moved 1 revoker, 1 believer to the sb.

[psyburat]

Both of those decks fall victim to the very things I was criticizing.  They're both simply too tricky and will be crushed under the weight of their own inconsistencies.  By having the answer to everything you end up answering nothing.  Please try my list before criticizing my card choices (Tarmogoyf is pretty good right now), as I have set the standard for Noble Fish in the past month.

[TheWhiteDragon]

Hmmm...not sure I was aware of anyone being the standard for fish recently, but sure.  Your deck does not have the benefit of answering anything except in the tricky way of probe - mage.  Tarmgoyf is incredibly slow and non disruptive.  You also don't have the draw power of Elric as preceding decks do.  You even run 5 less threats than my deck, so I don't see how you can more "consistently" apply pressure.  Further, you have no bomb like tinker to compete with broken and you have no answer to things like tinker.  Things like revoker, believer, relic-warder, etc are very versatile and useful.  Gaddock is great in a world of fow/jace/tezz/gush.  I know from testing that tarm can't race BSC, tendrils, oath, etc.
Also, the 2 or 3 of strategy isn't as bad as you think.  The 2 or 3 ofs often serve a similar purpose and somewhat different.  I don't see how your singleton trygon follows your own logic there.  2 warder, 2 trygon, 4 pridemage (and 4 revoker to an extent) all serve what your 4 pridemage answer.  E-truth, swords, warders, etc can answer bsc.  Believer aids in fighting oath.  All the critters have uses and overlaping, though versatile and different, effects.  Your deck seems to want to beat with vanilla, counter everything, and get tricky/lucky on maindeck meddling mages.  If a serious threat like tinker is landed, then you basically have to scoop.
On tarm again, i'd even rather run phantasmal image.
Before assuming that a deck of 2 ofs will never draw the answers it needs, notice that 5x2 ofs is actually 10 similar effects...and being more threat dense than your own list.  Add in card draw from a card like Edric, and you'll see that a toolbox fish approach is actually MORE consistent than a counter/vanilla beater list.  This isn't just talking out of my ass either - it's testing evidence, and I'm sure many will attest to this claim.  There's a reason so many people are not running 3x4 ofs in fish, but prefer staple 4 ofs (noble/pridemage) and 2-3 of many other options.
Test MY list and tell me yours is better.  I'll take the Pepsi challenge running through a gauntlet anyday.  
Congrats on your tourneys too, but a top 8 and a top 4 does not actually make anyone the standard.  If you were a finalist or at least top 4 in several sizeable tourneys, then perhaps...but cracking top 8 in a field that only requires 6 matches including cut to top 8 does not a standard make.

[psyburat]

Your internet writing lacks traditional prose that I'm used to through well-written discussion, but I'll try to parse it:

Hmmm...not sure I was aware of anyone being the standard for fish recently, but sure.

I've put up nice results in back-to-back tournaments of a size that is considered by the Vintage community as "large enough" for analysis.  Sadly I cannot attend GenCon to continue this streak, but I'm definitely on a hot streak with my deck.

Your deck does not have the benefit of answering anything except in the tricky way of probe - mage.

This is an undoubtedly false statement.  I can answer enchantments, artifacts, counterable spells, and lands with my maindeck.

Tarmgoyf is incredibly slow and non disruptive.

I'll give you "non-disruptive", but at what P/T are you evaluating his speed?

You also don't have the draw power of Elric as preceding decks do.

You make the assumption that the deck needs draw power, I make the assumption it doesn't.  I'm also the guy that first won without running Selkie in 2009.  I don't think the deck needs to sacrifice card power for draw power.  We are at a stalemate that can only be resolved by tournament results.

You even run 5 less threats than my deck, so I don't see how you can more "consistently" apply pressure.

My consistency is not purely in pressure, but in game plan.

Further, you have no bomb like tinker to compete with broken and you have no answer to things like tinker.

Noble Fish has never, and will never, be a Tinker deck.  If there's one thing that the community will agree on the most is that fact.

Things like revoker, believer, relic-warder, etc are very versatile and useful.

The first guy got cut due to deck space circumstances.  The second two stress the mana too much.

Gaddock is great in a world of fow/jace/tezz/gush.

But not Tinker, perhaps our greatest threat.  The fact that he shuts our own FoWs off against Tinker or Yawgmoth's Will is pretty bad as well.

I know from testing that tarm can't race BSC, tendrils, oath, etc.

A deck can't be 60 answers to each one of those cards, chief.

Also, the 2 or 3 of strategy isn't as bad as you think.  The 2 or 3 ofs often serve a similar purpose and somewhat different.

Ok, cool.

I don't see how your singleton trygon follows your own logic there.

It's my preboarded card, since I needed a 60th card and couldn't find a 4th Mental Misstep in time.  Just kinda stuck.

2 warder, 2 trygon, 4 pridemage (and 4 revoker to an extent) all serve what your 4 pridemage answer.

What ever happened to my Trygon that you were critiquing?

E-truth, swords, warders, etc can answer bsc.

You don't need to answer BSC most of the time.  You need to answer Tinker.

Believer aids in fighting oath.

And invalidating our own Ancestral Recall.

All the critters have uses and overlaping, though versatile and different, effects.  Your deck seems to want to beat with vanilla, counter everything, and get tricky/lucky on maindeck meddling mages.  If a serious threat like tinker is landed, then you basically have to scoop.

Yes, my deck DOES want to disrupt my opponent from their game plan and provide quick beats rather than relying on answering potential threats.  That's the basic definition of the Fish archetype.

On tarm again, i'd even rather run phantasmal image.

Then why aren't YOU?

Before assuming that a deck of 2 ofs will never draw the answers it needs, notice that 5x2 ofs is actually 10 similar effects...and being more threat dense than your own list.  Add in card draw from a card like Edric, and you'll see that a toolbox fish approach is actually MORE consistent than a counter/vanilla beater list.

Skipped this section due to already answering it.

This isn't just talking out of my ass either - it's testing evidence, and I'm sure many will attest to this claim.

Tournament results hold more weight than testing conjecture among the community.

There's a reason so many people are not running 3x4 ofs in fish, but prefer staple 4 ofs (noble/pridemage) and 2-3 of many other options.

Good for you, good for them.  I'm not entitled to force people to play a certain 75, just tell them that their 75 is wrong.

Test MY list and tell me yours is better.

If you get half as many Top 8s with your list than I'll give that serious thought.

I'll take the Pepsi challenge running through a gauntlet anyday.

My body can't metabolize high fructose corn syrup, so I cannot accept your challenge.

Congrats on your tourneys too, but a top 8 and a top 4 does not actually make anyone the standard.  If you were a finalist or at least top 4 in several sizeable tourneys, then perhaps...but cracking top 8 in a field that only requires 6 matches including cut to top 8 does not a standard make.

Since you don't seem to be offering concrete numbers, what would be the breaking point to consider a deck the standard?

Cited Sources:  My first win with the deck: http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1157

[TheWhiteDragon]

Just to answer a few items:

The neglect to mention your trygon as an answer was an oversight.  My deck runs 2, so again it doubles on the answer power there.

Fish typically hasn't been a tinker deck, but I don't think that has to be the case.  in my deck, I run 2 vial, 4 rod, 4 revoker, 3 on color mox, and lotus - 14 artifacts all costing 2 or less is ample tinker fodder.  Tinkering up a revoker/null rod too is sometimes very good.  Just because fish hasn't been known as a tinker deck, doesn't mean a fish deck can't utilize tinker effectively - especially when the build fits.

You suppose to answer tinker as opposed to answering the threat tinker brings up (very often BSC).  You run 4 FoW and 4 daze as effective counters, which my deck also runs.  But I also run 2 relic warder, etruth, plow, and mystical to find an answer.  The odds of you having 1 fow (daze can not be enough often) is far less than having fow or 1 of 5 other answers.  Your counter power is mostly on par with my deck (+3 misteps which are niche).  You run mages, I run null rods - so different strategy there.

Your comment about "inconsistency" suggested that all the "2-ofs" were several answers in a toolbox to completely different problems.  What you didn't see is that they are actually able to answer the same problems in different ways, being more like 10-ofs to a problem, and also capable of handling problems your deck can't unless you have FoW at the opportune time.

I shouldn't have said your deck can't answer anything, it can - but i don't believe it can answer MORE things or more consistently as my list.

With 4 nobles, 2 vials, and all the W land, I don't see how believer/warder are too mana intense.  I never get screwed on 3 colors or WW.

Believer stopping tendrils or oath is a WELCOME trade for the chance I cut off my singleton ancestral.  Especially when I have 2 Edrics to replenish my hand.  If I cut off FoW for me, but cut off FoW, gush, jace, gifts, tendrils, tezz from my opponent - again, a WELCOME trade.  If I can't FoW their tinker, i don't roll over and die like your deck would, because I run 5 other answers and if they are going for time vault, revokers are an extra 4 answers.  If they aren't going for BSC, then I have my own tinker for sphinx that doesn't get cut off by gaddock either.  

I don't run image, because as I said, I'd rather run image than tarm...and tarm is not good enough to make the cut...thus image I didn't feel made the cut either (but I still find better than tarm).  I evaluate tarm at being typically a 2/3 on turn 1, a 3/4 or 4/5 by turn 2, and at best a 5/6 later.  You won't often get a planeswalker or enchantment in a grave as not all decks run them...and nobody runs tribal.  I'd rather a 2/2 that can stop my opponent from storming out, oathing up, fatal infecting, or vault/keying infinitely as opposed to a creature that might kill a turn or two faster assuming you aren't already dead in the first 5 turns.

I suppose the deck doesn't NEED draw power, but it for surely helps vs decks that often allow several beaters in unopposed (i.e. blue) and for digging into more threats and answers.

I think cards that proactively (gaddock) and reactively (everything else) answer opposing threats while at the same time adding damage are better than straight trying to out counter everything.  I have 8 counters to your 11, but i also have a ton more answers in my critters.  A deck can't have 60 answers to several problems, but it certainly can have 20 or so answers to several problems beyond the counterspells that we both run.  Several of my cards answer multiple problems as well (gaddock/rod/believer) and don't answer 1 for 1 like counters.  Revoker and Mage serve similar purposes.  Mines more reactive in a sense, but can also help cut off mana and cards that hit play when I didn't know the opponent had them in hand.  I think they are about equal in their uses.  I also have mages sb when I know what the opponent is playing and I know what to name on turn 1.

I don't have tourney experience top 8s to back up that my deck is better than yours (though I'll gladly run a gauntlet vs you running a gauntlet with your deck and we'll see who has a better record ), because I don't play fish in tourneys.  I prefer broken decks that win fast vs a large field.  I typically play oath or workshops when I play in tourneys, and I come in 1st...not 8th.  Granted, 16ish person tourneys don't count for squat really, but I wouldn't tout an 8th place as anything to speak of.

I'm not trying to blast you on not winning the tourneys, btw, though I know it sounds that way - what I AM saying is that I wouldn't take 2 non-winning finishes in two tourneys, and consider myself a "standard" in anything with that.  If a deck comes in first, maybe even second, possibly even with a top 4 in there to accompany 3 or 4 finals appearances/wins in 40+ player tournies, THEN I'd consider a deck maybe a standard.  If the deck was piloted in each of those 4 or 5 or more tourneys by the same player (and those wins weren't speckled with tourney losses of 3-2-drops in other tourneys) then I'd consider that player a standard setter.  I am confident my list is stronger than yours, but even if I were to make 4 top 8s...hell, even a win in there, i wouldn't be brash enough to call my deck a standard for such a broad archetype.

[serracollector]

Scavenging Ooze has replaced Goyf in all fish decks I ever would have played it in.  It can pump itself, it can stop Y Will, Dredge, Regrowth, Reanimator decks, and Goyf, all for a green mana.  And it can give you life, which sometimes does still matter.

[TheWhiteDragon]

Scavenging ooze is awesome.  I have 4 in my sb and i think they are far better than goyfs.  I'm not sure how great they are in the main yet though.  I'd probably be willing to try 1 main in place of a revoker, and maybe 1 main in place of a believer.  I like the "fast" matchups believer helps against, but i have a ton of oath answers and several storm answers, so perhaps a grave killer is good.  I am not sure if running 2 will be enough to really tell me how good he is as a main critter, but for sure his ability makes him infinitely better than tarm.

As I wrote - i reflected on the idea and decided to move 2 to the main.  Believer handles things that 4 rod/3 gaddock handles in storm and 4 pridemage, 2 trygon, 2 warder handle the oath.  The additional fight vs dredge g1, and the ability to shrink and smash goyfs in a mirror seem to make ooze a good main addition (in addition to killing dragon, reanimator, welder tricks, crucible, yawg will, etc.)  And life gain is at times relevent.  The ability to pump via pridemage use is a useful trick too.

[serracollector]

The fish deck I run is only UG, I have stuck with UG for years, and it has done me well.  I run 2 Ooze Main, and 2 Side, 4 revoker, 2 Edric, 4 trygon, 4 selkie, 4 Nobles, 2 phantamsal image, and 1 sower.  When you run 20 creatures, there is always fodder to pump Ooze, so at the worse he is a 6/6+ for 2 mana.  With qasali, or curse catcher, or the like, I am sure its even easier.

[Blue Lotus]

If someone could explain to me the hostility towards goyf I would be keen to hear it. The guy is a monster when he hits the board, end the game faster than any two drop and doesn't require a mana investment. What games have you lost with goyf on the board and said "If only it was a scavenging ooze, I would have taken that home!"